My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
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My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:11 PM EDT
The following post is my own opinion. It should not be construed to represent the opinion of any other Mortal Kombat Online staff member or Mortal Kombat Online as a whole.

Well. The day has come and gone: Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe has been announced. Not unexpectedly, the community rioted.

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't known about MKvDC for a while now. I had been hearing too many whispers from credible sources for it not to be true. Of course, like many here, my primary reaction when I heard was it was consisted of, "You CANNOT be serious..." It didn't seem like it would work. It seemed gimmicky. It seemed like Midway had a completely skewed view of what the fans were wanting and ran with it.

I'll be blunt. I had even considered leaving Mortal Kombat Online while I was pondering over what was happening. In the end, I was convinced to hear Midway out and see what they had to say.

Of course, I got to see the presentation at Gamers Day. I got to talk to Ed and others at Midway. I've also spent a couple of days thinking about it and getting my thoughts in order.

I'm going to wait and see what happens. In retrospect, it's not really as crazy an idea as people are making it out to be.

The first thing to keep in mind is that whether you realize it or not, Mortal Kombat had a bit of a comic book background. Before he worked for Midway, John Tobias was a comic book artist. Among his work was the comic version of The Real Ghostbusters. In addition, if anyone remembers the comics Midway sold when the first two arcade games came out, those were drawn by Tobias himself.

Another thing to look closely at is Mortal Kombat 3. In particular, look at the character designs that John Tobias came up with. Has anyone else noticed that the character designs seem to be more comic/superhero costumes than anything else? I'd wager that if you showed the drawings of Sub-Zero, Kung Lao, and Shang Tsung to someone who did not know Mortal Kombat, he/she would think they were from some superhero comic instead of a fighting game like Mortal Kombat.

Now, let's look at what MK is crossing over with: the DC Universe. Ed actually made a very good point when he said, "This is not Super Friends. This is Batman Begins." The DC comic universe is not all bright colors and happy people. It is brutal and has all sorts of horrors. People deride Superman, for example, yet don't look at some of his enemies. The Cyborg Superman annihilated an entire city, murdering its entire population. The Toyman, in one incarnation, was a child killer.

Other crimefighters have similar backstories. Kyle Rayner, shortly after becoming Green Lantern, came home to find his girlfriend's body stuffed in his refrigerator. The Elongated Man's wife was brutally murdered, and it came out she had been raped in the past by Dr. Light. The second Blue Beetle's career came to an abrupt end when Maxwell Lord (a former friend) shot him point-blank through the head. Maxwell Lord's end came when Wonder Woman found out the only way to break his control over Superman was if he was dead.

And let's not even get into the Joker's body count, which supposedly is in the four figure range...

The DC Universe is not a nice place. If it was, there wouldn't be a need for their superheroes. It's dark, gritty, and while the forces of evil and good might wear costumes and have superpowers... you still have a place where people die horribly, and wrongs are being fought.

Actually, on that note, that brings up a thought I had earlier. People are griping that a universe with characters in costumes who possess superpowers are being crossed over with a universe with characters in costumes who possess superpowers. Huh? I've certainly seen much stranger crossovers in my time. (Ten years on I'm still scratching my head over the X-Men/Star Trek crossovers, and don't get me started on Archie Meets The Punisher...)

The other common complaint I've seen is the fact that they're aiming for a T rating with this game. People have been worried that there will not be fatalities in this game, but Ed has said they will be putting in finishing moves. They may not be lethal ones (he didn't say either way), but they will be there. The thing is... in a way, it does kind of make sense. Outside of the games, there hasn't been much gore in Mortal Kombat. In fact, the series has been made somewhat kid-friendly outside of the games, including Saturday morning cartoon series, lunchboxes, and the like. Even the live-action takes on Mortal Kombat have been relatively gore-free; the only counter-example that comes to mind is the monk in the first movie who was flash-frozen by Sub-Zero and shattered; later Kano makes mention of how disgusted he was by it. The game will have blood, as has been seen in the trailer. There will be finishers, according to Ed. We just shouldn't expect to see all sorts of blood and gore. Besides, one doesn't need gore to creep someone out. Just look at the typical victim of the Joker: no marks on the body and nothing to show the cause of death, except for their mouths forced into a huge smile...

Like everyone here, I was concerned. I even went into the event expecting Midway to be extremely upbeat and claim this is what the fans had been asking for. Quite the opposite happened, in fact; everyone I spoke to about it acknowledged they expected a huge backlash. However, they believe in it, and it did not seem like lip service at all to me. They believe it will work and they want to prove it to us. My initial complete disagreement has since faded away, and now I'm awaiting it with a bit of a raised eyebrow and a general feeling of, "All right... convince me." I've seen worse ideas in the past, and Midway knows they're not working with an entirely accepting community with this idea.

We'll see how it goes.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:25 PM EDT
Nice read, and a good take on the subject. I'm not as anxious to condemn Midway for taking creative liberty. They just might turn out something good. I'm also a pretty big fan of DC, which helps.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:29 PM EDT
I've been a fan of comic books my whole life and I've been a fan of Mortal Kombat since it came out but I have to say - this is a really bad idea. I just hope the game is fun to play because the Mortal Kombat mythology that I grew up with has been butchered forever =)
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:32 PM EDT
Shin_Akuma Wrote:
Nice read, and a good take on the subject. I'm not as anxious to condemn Midway for taking creative liberty. They just might turn out something good. I'm also a pretty big fan of DC, which helps.


2nd that.

"Just look at the typical victim of the Joker: no marks on the body and nothing to show the cause of death, except for their mouths forced into a huge smile... " sounds like a great finisher for The Joker if he's in the game :)
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:36 PM EDT
Ah right. Good read DAB. One of the questions that should have been asked in my opinion is.....Why did Tobias leave Midway? Is there a specific reason for it? But I guess everyone forgot to mention it. Oh well, like you said, lets see how the game goes.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:42 PM EDT
We'll see what happens. We can't judge just by looking at the trailer, we'll have to wait until the game actually comes out.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:44 PM EDT
You know, the first thing that came to mind when I learned about the Crossover was this: "There are over 60 characters in the MK universe. If I had to pick ten of them, who would they be?"

That's my real problem with this game. 10 to 12 other characters who deserved next-gen rebirth are being left out cold on the street. They will be the sacraficial lamb used to open the gates to DC. That's the real salt in the wound, IMO.

The game looks good. I think Freefall kombat is a great idea. Still, I feel like a lot of obscure characters got poor revivals, and I'm pointing to both MKD and MKA.

If we weren't missing thirty-so bios for MKA, I'd be more flexible for Boon, but I don't think this is what the franchise needed.

Also, I had a good feeling you had an early scoop on this for a while, Bishop. smile When I read that portion of your post, I leaped a bit in my seat yelling, "I knew it!" tongue
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:50 PM EDT
Maybe they have a few tricks up their sleeves to make this work. They know this is a huge risk they are taking but they seem to have allot of confidence in this.

Even though the DC universe can be dark, its most likely not going to play much of a factor in this game. Why? look at what we already know, no fatalities (just these "Finishers") No stage fatalities, yes there WILL BE blood but its going to be minimal meaning not as much blood as the other MK's and the game is rated T. If DC is so dark, than why is when MK does a game with them ,for the first time in history a MK game is rated T? Even if DC can be dark, I still dont believe it can match up to MK. Thats why this mix is so bad imo.

This is what I feel and its subject to change seeing as how we're still early in development.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 02:54 PM EDT
I think this game could also get a ton of Non mk fans into mk... which would help
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 03:04 PM EDT
If we weren't missing thirty-so bios for MKA, I'd be more flexible for Boon, but I don't think this is what the franchise needed.


that is my main gripe. A crossover with DC is crazy idea, but its one that could really work if done right. But can Midway do it right? Will we get a rush job like we have been getting with the last 4 or 5 games?

I try to keep my head up and not dwell on the fact that MK is spiraling down the tubes, thinking that at some point they'll wake up and fix the problems before them. But not finishing the games they've already promised to finish, and seemingly "wipeing the slate clean" to start fresh without following through doesn't bode well for the future.

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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 03:19 PM EDT
At first I didn't know what to think when I saw that this was true. I just thought it was sooo crazy, MK vs DC? WTF? Superheroes? But then I started thinking of how MK3,UMK3,MKT were all comic book like, from the story to the characters, everything about those games were inspired by comics. Also, I was thinking in the wrong mindset of, MK VS Super buddies, but yeah, I'm more excited now that they'll be using the tone of the new Batman series, dark and horrifying. I like that because that mean Superman won't be as much as a cliche as we think, he'll be more darker and down to earth.

I think this can really work and I can't wait to see how this all plays out. And when I thought of the Joker in a MK I wanted to go throw up, but I remebered about what Boon said, the DC characters will be dark, so i'm actually excited to see the Joker who I always thought was creepy. I would also like to see the Riddler. This game can be big and its really turning me on to DC more and more.

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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 03:34 PM EDT
DAB you just said what I believe a lot of fans feel. Including me! I was like "what the hell" when I first read the news. But now, two days later, I feeling actually a bit better about it. Still, it's a strange thought having superheroes from another universe battle it out with MK but who knows, it might work.

I am not that familiar with DC. Besides Batman and Superman I really don't know anyone. That can actually be good, some characters showing up in the game are totally new to me then, I guess. I'm still disappointed were not seeing a stand-alone MK, but I'm willing to give MK vs DC Universe the benefit of the doubt.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 03:48 PM EDT
I did the same thing DAB.

I stopped, went away for a couple days...came back and skimmed and everything...got my head together ect..

BUT, I gotta tell you man, I'm pretty sick of them trying to "SELL me shit". I don't care to deal with the mentality that allows them to continue to convince me>>Shock me>>then convince me again.

I don't have the gripe about comic characters, cuz I know better, and at the same time. I DON'T WANT-IT from MK. I, personally, don't buy the games for them to screw with what's good about the game.

I want a straight up, stand alone Next Generation Mortal Kombat game. If it takes for them to listen again to what people wanna buy....it's been tried apparently...But I'd talk to them over and over again until they get the idea.

It seems like, everytime they're told what people want to buy from them....they do something else anyway, and procreed casually about it to "convince people it's a good idea". I don't wanna HAVE to be convinced to buy anything I buy, MK or not. It's like, what sense does that make, when their client base is virtually screaming at them? Doesn't make sense not to comply on a realistic level. This is your money talking to you MkTeam, and you're not listening? lol That's crazy.

We're 15+yrs in man, the job(or at least concept)should be easy. We should be on a relatively similar page with them...Not to mention the fact that EVERY Mk game to Date has been shocking to the gaming industry all on it's own. To release a MK game...is "Shocking", traditionally. Cuz you already know, this ain't Tekken...this ain't Street Fighter...MK is not DC. I don't wanna pay for them to mix the two. No Way...

And while I'm still an avid fan of the series, I sit and wonder sometime, "Is it possible, that they actually do know what fans are generally asking for?....When will they show it to me? Again?".

Makes me wonder..

Let me touch on the T rated, blood, gore, and all that really fast.

What's been keeping people buying the games, is the potential of the current, and or previous games' content, based on what's going on in the gaming industry, and what technology will allow them to do in the current day. 2yrs is not much time to pass, when you consider "how people are currently thinking" about a thing.

So, to realize, and express that consciousness through a video game, per what people are asking//telling them we wanna buy, should be a drop in the bucket man. Easy dealing...Hell, take 3yrs. But I wanna see if they see what I see about this game. Mk vs DC? T for Teen rated? Nope, Hell No, we're on totally different plains of existence. Either that...or they're just being hard headed. lol

Personally, MK is the "action-horror-fighting game" of the genre to me. Or, "A Nightmare with Martial Arts in it". That's what I'm paying them to RE-Realize for me with a new game. They did that with the early games....what's keeping them from modernizing THAT concept?

Which, while I understand there's a few ways to get to that realization, If you screw around with the formula that allows the possibility of that realization, that-possible compliance or even communication between developer and client..... you turn people off. Especially reliably consistent money. And it's not just the "Shock"....it's the "Switch" that impulses people to actually want the product. lol

An example that sticks out, is Boon talking about the MK vs SF possibility.

They're two companies, with different essential ideals for their games, so a crossover between them will not // has not happen(ed). One side, seems to be un-interested. AT ALL with MK. You can't "Convince" an impulse.
==
The T rating eliminates the possibility for a "Nightmare with Martial Arts in it", to happen. People don't have T rated nightmares...not even kids.

The DC comics, have apparently eliminated the possibility of a developing story line, that would otherwise be specifically designed for MK(what I pay for). And actually, it's tainted a progression. What I mean is, New characters? NOPE....it's a back peddle. Cuz for a game like this, you'd probably want the best from the MK Universe in there to represent our side, to the DC fans. Not some unknown Mk character where nobody knows what the hell is going on.

The Crossover, as a concept, came at a bad time imo. Cuz I wanted them to show me (and the whole world really) a great MK game. Show the world why I still play Mk. HmmhnThey didn't do it. I don't wanna buy "how well the two universes mix"...I don't even care about that shit. And anyway, MK is pitted up against Marvel most commonly. Raiden vs Magneto, Scorpion vs Wolverine, Sub Zero vs Iceman ect...

========

I'm upset because they now have to convince me to buy what I'm otherwise, supposed to know I want to buy.

How fucked is that?

I'm missing a point or two here, but you get it...

I should have did an audio of this post instead...
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:08 PM EDT
Mods, please close this thread, we already have a thousand topics on this subject smile
But seriously,
I agree with Darq, im gonna give this game a chance to show me what it has before i write it off as another mk disappointment.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:11 PM EDT
McDaniel Wrote:
Mods, please close this thread, we already have a thousand topics on this subject smile

I agree with Darq, im gonna give this game a chance to show me what it has before i write it off as another mk disappointment.


A mod made this thread. I don't think it'll get closd.

And I trust the MK team complete- well, not really. I love the idea, because I love both series, but the gameplay is what matters. They have to deliver there. Gah, when's E3?
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:23 PM EDT
All of my original criticisms of this game still stand. But I am willing to wait and see what they have in store for us.

This game needs the following to get past the initial fan disgust:

1) Good Character Selection- Focus on the Jokers, Two-Faces, Deathstrokes, and Lobos of DC and avoid as many silly costumed boy scouts as possible. Also 20 characters (which Boon himself mentioned) for a crossover game is simply too few. I feel that 30 is a more appropriate number. This way you get 15 from each franchise, and you'll be assured a good mix of heroes and villians, as well as males and females.

2) Innovative Gameplay- I like the "in close fighting" and free fall ideas, but I hope they keep the fighting brutal, in your face, and painful.

3) Storyline- This may be the achilles heel of this game. Most storylines for crossover games are terrible. I hope they take it seriously, especially after the MK:A debacle. WE WANT CHARACTER BIOS! WE WANT A STORY MODE! Make it entertaining.

4) Violence- The "T" Rating is appalling. If DC is as dark and violent as some people are claiming it is, then why can't they produce a video game with an "M" Rating? I don't need over the top violent fatalities but there definitely needs to be: blood, violence, brutality, and DEATH to make this game work!

I hope they can pull this off, but I certainly have my reservations.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:27 PM EDT
massdeath Wrote:
All of my original criticisms of this game still stand. But I am willing to wait and see what they have in store for us.

This game needs the following to get past the initial fan disgust:

1) Good Character Selection- Focus on the Jokers, Two-Faces, Deathstrokes, and Lobos of DC and avoid as many silly costumed boy scouts as possible. Also 20 characters (which Boon himself mentioned) for a crossover game is simply too few. I feel that 30 is a more appropriate number. This way you get 15 from each franchise, and you'll be assured a good mix of heroes and villians, as well as males and females.

2) Innovative Gameplay- I like the "in close fighting" and free fall ideas, but I hope they keep the fighting brutal, in your face, and painful.

3) Storyline- This may be the achilles heel of this game. Most storylines for crossover games are terrible. I hope they take it seriously, especially after the MK:A debacle. WE WANT CHARACTER BIOS! WE WANT A STORY MODE! Make it entertaining.

4) Violence- The "T" Rating is appalling. If DC is as dark and violent as some people are claiming it is, then why can't they produce a video game with an "M" Rating? I don't need over the top violent fatalities but there definitely needs to be: blood, violence, brutality, and DEATH to make this game work!

I hope they can pull this off, but I certainly have my reservations.


32 would be excelent, where did you hear the 20 characters thing from? If thats true i'm going to be disapointed.

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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:31 PM EDT
Excellent opinion,couldn't explain my feelings any better.Although I just heard news of this today,it might not be a terrible idea.I just don't what to say.Everything seems great,but I just don't find DC to be interesting at all.

Thoughts?
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:35 PM EDT
The 20 characters is from X-Play. Not really confirmed, as they left no sources. It might just be a guess, who knows...As for the game, it has a lot of work ahead of it to be a fan favorite, but I'm rooting for good characters, good gameplay, good story, and, most of all, good fun.

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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:45 PM EDT
Mewzard Wrote:
The 20 characters is from X-Play. Not really confirmed, as they left no sources. It might just be a guess, who knows...As for the game, it has a lot of work ahead of it to be a fan favorite, but I'm rooting for good characters, good gameplay, good story, and, most of all, good fun.


Thanks for clearing that up. We need to take it with a grain of salt since they are the only ones who said it and nobody else even knows.

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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:46 PM EDT
I actually enjoyed reading something, wow. But youre actually very very right. This game will put MK back on the map.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 04:59 PM EDT
Id like to add, id still be happier with the game just being MK8 with a mix of old and new characters. This will have to do for now until MK9.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 05:34 PM EDT
Great post, DAB. I didn't like the idea at first but I'm just waiting to see how it turns out now as I've done with every other MK game. To go ahead with this they are obviously fairly confident. As such, I expect to see good results. Time will tell.
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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 06:21 PM EDT
I've been following MK story for years. Like everyone else, watched the movies and followed some of the series. So my dismissive stance on MK v DC is purely down to how the story is going to cross over. Furthermore, I would have liked the first MK for next gen. consoles to be solely MK and maybe after that then consider mixing it up with something.

I guess there's a lot riding on this and I hope Midway doesn't end up making a mess of it. But I will wait for the first set of gameplay videos before I make up my mind.

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RE: My take on Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
04/20/2008 06:39 PM EDT
Very good opinion Bishop, everyone has had Excellent opinions! I find myself loving this site all over again. None the less, I'm still confused about everything but for the most part, I am very excited. So I go on here and ask for some peoples opinion. Who would win? MK or DC?! I have only read little rants here and there and seeing as this is a credible, good take thread on MK and DC, I would like to hear something. But very good opinions and I am extremely jealous that you got to talk to Ed! Very good.
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