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razorxz
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04/04/2006 02:40 AM (UTC)
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Oh, just moving back and forth, I see. Well, like I said I haven't thought of it that much but my thinking was along the lines of buffering moves while blocking or something along those lines.
The more I think of it though, being able to move while blocking does kind of make sense. The block movement speed and wether you have the ability to side-step while doing it would also have to be considered. How it could be implemented sounds intriguing, I got a question (not that it matters, just curious) :
when holding block would the opponent be able to tell you are holding block, as per the animation of it? For example, I am holding block but moving foward...would the animation for it just be regular walk or you can clearly see that my guard is up?
EDIT: - oops, just saw your Soul Calibur statement, can't believe I forgot about that (considering the fact that I was just fighting against an old friend in SC3 last weekend.) MK would really benefit from a blocking mechanic like that, that is if their able to execute it well (though I don't see how a gamemaker can mess up something like moving while blocking)
The animation would change to a more cautious looking walk, with the guard up.
Kind of Like changing from an MKD walk, to a Tekken walk.
That wouldn't help you if your back is to a wall though.
You might be able to SW while guarding HM also.
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razorxz
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04/04/2006 03:05 AM (UTC)
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Very true, it wouldn't help much if your back is against the wall. I wonder what would be a good idea to fix that? Or, perhaps leaving it at that would make the player consider his/her position when initiating block-movement, so maybe leaving it at that would be a good idea.
I think there should be some kind of option to allow an escape from a close smoke cloud, or Ice clone type move trap.
Maybe a tec. ss, like what you can do in the King of fighters games with the roll after a block.
Tapping BLK ~ d or BLK ~ u
Could do something like the VF4 and MKD side step, but after a HM block.
You could just hold block, then as soon as the block happens, let go of BLK and ss.
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razorxz
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04/04/2006 04:32 AM (UTC)
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So in a sense so it is almost like a parry from a blocking situation only that you are evading rather than freezing?stumbling/dizzying your opponent thereby leaving him/her for an attack?
What if the trap move is done in a combo, would it still be possible to initiate this techroll-type move?
In addition, I am thinking probably big and/or slow charcters that don't rely on quickness should not have this move, or at least if they have this feat maybe it could be adjusted to doing something else that might give similar results
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mastermalone
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04/04/2006 06:18 AM (UTC)
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Versatile Wrote:
Malone, please tell Ed Boon to make Sub-Zero ice clone work up close like Smoke's cloud does. K? Thx :)
I would love too, but then Sub zero would be as broken as Smoke. I'm going to try to talk him out of keeping Smoke in his current form. Smoke needs to be more like Sub Zero. Back in the day, Sub Zero's clone could be done up close, Sub Zero players would jump kick a blocking opponent and buffer an ice clone while in the air once they made contact with the blocking opponent. The ice clone's toe would instantly freeze the opponent, effectively making Sub Zero....a GOD wow.
Bad news, anyway you look at it. I will however be "taking it to the team" with a barrage of gameplay questions and suggestions from all the respected members of this board, along with delivering danadbab's glitch vids.
I'm going to be as objective as possible without being an ass in the process. Diplomacy is the best policy when it come to E3. Game companies love contructive criticism and feedback from nice people. Boon and his team are very nice guys, Boon is also an easy going guy. I made a couple of suggestions last time about adding in the characters from DA in to MKD as non cannon, but playable bonus characters. He took it into consideration, you can tell he did because the DA characters are in the game, sadly, only playble via game shark. They did tell me that they kind ofwere pressed for time, and that they might not be able to do it.
This time I'm armed with a wealth of knowledge thanks to online play as opposed to my experience with MKDA. I knew nothing of MKDA's glitches back in 2004. E3 is fast approaching, it's almost time guys.
Peace
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FLSTYLE
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04/04/2006 10:46 AM (UTC)
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bleed Wrote:
In Tekken Kazuya's df+2 "counter hit" extra damage, could be replaced by a 3-4 hit dial combo.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, there goes one of my Kaz strats out of the window, no thanks.
It could also add to his strat.
Maybe a hold df+2 = 3 + frames = T5 style stun
Quick tap = 1 - 2 + frames = leads to a dial combo, which could lead to other types of combos.
Example
:df+2, df+1 = 2 hit dial combo ends in crumple stun = leads to a low juggle.
Or the second hit could cause a Feng Wei CH df+1 sit down stun.
Causes slightly more damage
or
:df+2, df+1, ~ d,df+1+2 ( his Gates of Hell throw )
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ThuggishRuggish
04/04/2006 04:22 PM (UTC)
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bleed Wrote:
It could also add to hit strat.
Maybe a hold df+2 = 3 + frames = T5 style stun
Quick tap = 1 - 2 + frames = leads to a dial combo, which could lead to other types of combos.
Example
:df+2, df+1 = 2 hit dial combo ends in crumple stun = leads to a low juggle.
Or the second hit could cause a Feng Wei CH df+1 sit down stun.
Causes slightly more damage
or
:df+2, df+1, ~ d,df+1+2 ( his Gates of Hell throw )

Eh, they need to get rid of these easy combos. They need to add hcf, and hcb..
like for instance a Dail-A combo like this.
df+2,2,1,hcb+4,fb+2 b,f,df+2+1...ect. This 1,1,1,cs,4,4,cs, shit is too easy. most complicated thing in MK:D was the TS and tel slams.
Anyways about block stunn if you take kobra. His combo in shorin(2,1,1,4) has block stunn, and people always complin about it. I always liked it. Plus they were to lazy to find a way out of it(just duck, and do a low.) It gave the kobra player breathing room, or another chance to attack.
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Sparta*
04/04/2006 04:45 PM (UTC)
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Hey Mastermalone, can you ask the MK team to bring back a lot of the classic moves, and bring back the ability to do special moves in the air (like Kitana's fan toss etc)
I think those things would greatly increase the fighting system and replay value of MKA.
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Shinnox
04/04/2006 07:34 PM (UTC)
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malone, i really hope boon and co listen to you.
*CROSSES FINGERS*
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Bloodline666
04/04/2006 09:32 PM (UTC)
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bleed Wrote:
The Midway forums are filled with casual, blood, story, mini game.... fans.
The game play discussions on there are about fatalities and stuff like that.
Last time I checked...
That's why I never go there anymore; most people don't understand and can't discuss the topic accordingly.

Actually, I have taken liberty in posting a thread about the fighting engine in the Future MK forum at the Midway Boards, blatantly asking the people there what should be implemented in future MK games to fix the fighting engine. I even gave a link to danadbab's stickied thread about character-specific glitches. Here's a link to the thread, if you wanna see it. I suggest that anyone who cares about the gameplay go register at the Midway Forums (if you haven't done so already) and reply to that thread. And when met with opposition from the "fanboys" and "fangirls" there, keep repeating your stance. That's exactly what I'm going to do there.

ThuggishRuggish Wrote:
Eh, they need to get rid of these easy combos. They need to add hcf, and hcb..
like for instance a Dail-A combo like this.
df+2,2,1,hcb+4,fb+2 b,f,df+2+1...ect. This 1,1,1,cs,4,4,cs, shit is too easy. most complicated thing in MK:D was the TS and tel slams.
Anyways about block stunn if you take kobra. His combo in shorin(2,1,1,4) has block stunn, and people always complin about it. I always liked it. Plus they were to lazy to find a way out of it(just duck, and do a low.) It gave the kobra player breathing room, or another chance to attack.

More damaging dial combos could work like that, but not little 3 - 4 hitters.
There's really no need to make combos hard just for the sake of making them hard, unless there is a reason / reward.
If the dial combos become stronger than strings, they need some kind of escape option, or increased difficulty.
I think the dial combo "look" can stay, but work like a variation on single power hits, throws, reversals....etc.
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razorxz
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04/04/2006 11:20 PM (UTC)
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I don't think ease is part of what makes MK's gameplay horrible, so adding hcb notations to dial-a-combo combos may not necessary help matters. Given that those somewhat difficult notations have been implemented for the so-called "special moves," making regular hits with those similar notations won't make too much sense.
It seems like this is one of the problems/difficulties of moving from the 2d to the 3d world. They can't think up enough notations for regular moves without making the notations bump into the "special move" realm, and since moving to 3d also means more useful moves they hit a brickwall. Maybe that is why they were trying to promote less special moves or less priority on special moves back in DA so they could, step by step, eliiminate special moves from the MK universe. Meh, I am just babling and creatively bumping a gameplay thread at this point, who knows.
They were cutting corners on the move lists.
I think they were trying to keep it as basic as possible to minimize their work load.
If they wanted, they could put a ton of moves for just 1 button.
p
Hold p
quick tap p
p~p = cacel to another move
f+p
f,p
p,f
ff+p
BLK+punch
etc...................
You could get a ton of simple commands for just 1 button.
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mkflegend
04/05/2006 12:55 AM (UTC)
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mastermalone Wrote:
Versatile Wrote:
Malone, please tell Ed Boon to make Sub-Zero ice clone work up close like Smoke's cloud does. K? Thx :)
I would love too, but then Sub zero would be as broken as Smoke. I'm going to try to talk him out of keeping Smoke in his current form. Smoke needs to be more like Sub Zero. Back in the day, Sub Zero's clone could be done up close, Sub Zero players would jump kick a blocking opponent and buffer an ice clone while in the air once they made contact with the blocking opponent. The ice clone's toe would instantly freeze the opponent, effectively making Sub Zero....a GOD wow.
Bad news, anyway you look at it. I will however be "taking it to the team" with a barrage of gameplay questions and suggestions from all the respected members of this board, along with delivering danadbab's glitch vids.
I'm going to be as objective as possible without being an ass in the process. Diplomacy is the best policy when it come to E3. Game companies love contructive criticism and feedback from nice people. Boon and his team are very nice guys, Boon is also an easy going guy. I made a couple of suggestions last time about adding in the characters from DA in to MKD as non cannon, but playable bonus characters. He took it into consideration, you can tell he did because the DA characters are in the game, sadly, only playble via game shark. They did tell me that they kind ofwere pressed for time, and that they might not be able to do it.
This time I'm armed with a wealth of knowledge thanks to online play as opposed to my experience with MKDA. I knew nothing of MKDA's glitches back in 2004. E3 is fast approaching, it's almost time guys.
Peace

Yep, same thing I said.Glad to see that others are aware of this man.LOL, it's no surprise your experience really pays off man.lol
Yeah, it was the cheesiest thing ever.The odd thing is that NOT everyone knew of this, even to this day some don't which I find a little strange.Very, very broken.
But malone, did you notice that in UMK3 ------present the clone is not broken.They should as I said in my previous post fix Smoke's cloud, this way cornertrapping while buffering the smokey cloud WON'T be broken and unfair.
BTW, that whole blocking while moving thing being discussed.I believe that would be broken unless implement it perfectly or the way Bleed and Razor are talking about.
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mastermalone
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04/05/2006 02:08 AM (UTC)
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Very true MKF, I don't believe that characters need to move while blocking. It's not necessary. I do remember UMK3 Sub Zero being balanced and dropping down to mid tier grin. Those were the days.....
To answer a question asked of me in an earlier post:
Special moves in the air are a given. I wouldn't worry about them not being able to be performed in the air. Boon has already stated that "Everything you can do on the ground, you can also do in the air". It would only make sense for them to add that feature as well for more elaborate air combos.
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ThuggishRuggish
04/05/2006 02:54 AM (UTC)
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razorxz Wrote:
I don't think ease is part of what makes MK's gameplay horrible, so adding hcb notations to dial-a-combo combos may not necessary help matters. Given that those somewhat difficult notations have been implemented for the so-called "special moves," making regular hits with those similar notations won't make too much sense.
It seems like this is one of the problems/difficulties of moving from the 2d to the 3d world. They can't think up enough notations for regular moves without making the notations bump into the "special move" realm, and since moving to 3d also means more useful moves they hit a brickwall. Maybe that is why they were trying to promote less special moves or less priority on special moves back in DA so they could, step by step, eliiminate special moves from the MK universe. Meh, I am just babling and creatively bumping a gameplay thread at this point, who knows.

The problem with MK:D is the camera, it freezes when you SS and gets stuck. this is what makes free grabs.
I keep reading about this camera tracking problem being related to free throws.
I don't understand what the camera has to do with the axis alignment for the characters.
The camera can move independently of the player models.
If the camera freezes, the characters can still move and react to each others XY coordinates.
It seems to me that the free throw problem would be with the characters lock on system, not the camera.
Do we have any programmers here that can explain this?
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ThuggishRuggish
04/05/2006 03:54 AM (UTC)
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bleed Wrote:
I keep reading about this camera tracking problem being related to free throws.
I don't understand what the camera has to do with the axis alignment for the characters.
The camera can move independently of the player models.
If the camera freezes, the characters can still move and react to each others XY coordinates.
It seems to me that the free throw problem would be with the characters lock on system, not the camera.
Do we have any programmers here that can explain this?

Check can, hes taking this game apart and put it together about 5 times lol.
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:::::
04/05/2006 04:14 AM (UTC)
0
Bloodline666 Wrote:
bleed Wrote:
The Midway forums are filled with casual, blood, story, mini game.... fans.
The game play discussions on there are about fatalities and stuff like that.
Last time I checked...
That's why I never go there anymore; most people don't understand and can't discuss the topic accordingly.

Actually, I have taken liberty in posting a thread about the fighting engine in the Future MK forum at the Midway Boards, blatantly asking the people there what should be implemented in future MK games to fix the fighting engine. I even gave a link to danadbab's stickied thread about character-specific glitches. Here's a link to the thread, if you wanna see it. I suggest that anyone who cares about the gameplay go register at the Midway Forums (if you haven't done so already) and reply to that thread. And when met with opposition from the "fanboys" and "fangirls" there, keep repeating your stance. That's exactly what I'm going to do there.

You'll most likely be banned or have your posts edited if you cause as much of a kafuffle as you need to to get people to notice. They reserve their right to delete anything they consider "objectionable" - objectionable being any bad word against their games.
Unless they've changed from the first few weeks the board was opened.
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Bloodline666
04/05/2006 04:34 AM (UTC)
0
::::: Wrote:
Bloodline666 Wrote:
bleed Wrote:
The Midway forums are filled with casual, blood, story, mini game.... fans.
The game play discussions on there are about fatalities and stuff like that.
Last time I checked...
That's why I never go there anymore; most people don't understand and can't discuss the topic accordingly.

Actually, I have taken liberty in posting a thread about the fighting engine in the Future MK forum at the Midway Boards, blatantly asking the people there what should be implemented in future MK games to fix the fighting engine. I even gave a link to danadbab's stickied thread about character-specific glitches. Here's a link to the thread, if you wanna see it. I suggest that anyone who cares about the gameplay go register at the Midway Forums (if you haven't done so already) and reply to that thread. And when met with opposition from the "fanboys" and "fangirls" there, keep repeating your stance. That's exactly what I'm going to do there.

You'll most likely be banned or have your posts edited if you cause as much of a kafuffle as you need to to get people to notice. They reserve their right to delete anything they consider "objectionable" - objectionable being any bad word against their games.
Unless they've changed from the first few weeks the board was opened.

So what you're telling me is, I can get banned for saying MK's fighting engine sucks and needs to be fixed immediately?
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:::::
04/05/2006 05:02 AM (UTC)
0
Yes Bloodline, you could be, if they wanted to. Although, I don't know if they will outright, but it does piss them off. A lot. As in, visibly annoyed. So expect it. You aren't granted the type of freedom to state your case that you are here.
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Bloodline666
04/05/2006 05:06 AM (UTC)
0
::::: Wrote:
Yes Bloodline, you could be, if they wanted to. Although, I don't know if they will outright, but it does piss them off. A lot. As in, visably annoyed. So expect it. You aren't granted the type of freedom to state your case that you are here.

That still won't stop me from showing everyone in their face how broken the MKDA/MKD/MKA fighting engine is at the Midway Forums. If I get banned there, I have ways of evading it. smile
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secondgen
04/05/2006 08:11 AM (UTC)
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OMG! Maybe there is hope for the Midway Boards!wow
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