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3D Kombat Klassics
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TonyTheTiger
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TonyTheTiger - Forum Director

Mortal Kombat Online - The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
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Nintendo is comprised of three Japanese words. Nin, Ten, Dou, and when combined it means we kicked the holy shit outta Atari.

 •03/13/2006 09:19 PM (UTC) •
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The game will essentially be acceptible just so long as the risk/reward ratios make sense and there aren't stupid glitches and bugs. The reason other games have multiple throws with different escapes, wakeup, etc. is too act as a sort of...virtual referee that makes sure neither player has too great an advantage or disadvantage. This referee makes sure that there's always a "way out" of sorts. If Boon and Co. can fix the risk/reward problems in MKA without having to add all the stuff we want, more power to them. But what makes me laugh is that it would take even more effort to fix the game without adding all that stuff because the more simple a game is, the more glaring the flaws. So that makes me wonder how Boon will respond to these vids (props for them btw danadab). The vids are so clearly spelled out that there's no way Boon couldn't understand them so if this stuff doesn't get fixed in MKA...I don't know.
I just feel like Boon and Co. have a bad habit of just fixing the one problem without taking the entire engine into account as if everything works independently of everything else. Look what happened with the Gamecube version of Deception. They fixed one or two glaring infinites and added a few more in the process because they never think about the big picture. Boon may look at these vids and think to himself, "Ok, so I need to just go and slow down that one move Kobra has and the game will be perfect." Yeah, that may remove one infinite but it doesn't really "fix" anything. Band-aid mechanics.
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RasAlGhul
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 •03/13/2006 10:18 PM (UTC) •
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mastermalone Wrote:
Yes bleed, myself and a few others got the MK Team to make the throws unblockable at the 2004 E3. We told them how rediculous it was and how the opponent could simply turtle their way to victory in some cases.
I plan on marching into that exhibit area, most likely the same one they use every year with the dumb-ass security check before you go in, and delivering the vids from danadbab as well as really explaining to them how they can fix these issues based on the feedback from this thread. (Off topic: They were the only ehibitor with a security check at their ehibit...go figure?).
The team is very open to suggestion at the E3 show. The games are on display for consumer feed back and improvements can be made in a short time before a games release. Just look at Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter on the 360. That game was CRAP at the show last year! Now it's godlike because of the feedback they received from the show.
Versatile:
About throws being usless at high level due to only one type of throw and throw breaks.... You don't need two types of throws for a throw break sytem to work for you. You only need to program the game to give the player who is being thrown a short window of time to break the throw, if he knows it's comming just like Street Fighter III 3rd Strike. People get thrown all the time in 3rd Strike and there is only one way to execute the throw escape for both types of throws each character has. You have to anticipate it in order to break it, just like parrying.
If you think a throw is comming and you guess wrong, you eat a combo. In short Vers, the throw break will not hurt the game, it will fix many things wrong with it. Players will no longer be able to repeatedly throw you to perform an infinite, and the characters can still keep the current throw they have. Wish me luck guys.
Peace

good job! best of luck for this year E3!
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redsaleen02
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 •03/13/2006 11:55 PM (UTC) •
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ill hav to put my 2 cents in on the throw in mkd. since no one has stuided the throw more than me. first the throw is not broken, its the wake up game that makes the throw so usefull. in mkd ur characters animation has to stand up before he can duck, leaving u open to an unblockable throw. another free throw comes from when u jump over, and ur characters animation is facing the wrong way, so when his back is faceing u, this allows a free throw. the last free throw comes from sidestepping after a plant or stun. this happens cause the camera locks not allowing u do move fast enough to duck. now i always thought that having launchers in throws was dumb and should be taking out, but if u think about it, all u would do is block high since the onlt damage u could get hit with would be a sweep ( a whole 7%) or a throw which range from 9%-16% with the exception of ashras 20% damage throw.
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KenshiMaster16
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 •03/13/2006 11:56 PM (UTC) •
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redsaleen02 Wrote:
ill hav to put my 2 cents in on the throw in mkd. since no one has stuided the throw more than me. first the throw is not broken, its the wake up game that makes the throw so usefull. in mkd ur characters animation has to stand up before he can duck, leaving u open to an unblockable throw. another free throw comes from when u jump over, and ur characters animation is facing the wrong way, so when his back is faceing u, this allows a free throw. the last free throw comes from sidestepping after a plant or stun. this happens cause the camera locks not allowing u do move fast enough to duck. now i always thought that having launchers in throws was dumb and should be taking out, but if u think about it, all u would do is block high since the onlt damage u could get hit with would be a sweep ( a whole 7%) or a throw which range from 9%-16% with the exception of ashras 20% damage throw.

Nice observations, redsaleen02! I completely agree with all that you said.
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Jigsaw
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 •03/14/2006 10:41 PM (UTC) •
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But really, no matter how you look at it, throws SHOULD be escapable.
IMO, it depends on the situation, and how it's implemented.
A clean throw should be escapable.
But for something like a
clean Hit ~ throw combo = a guaranteed throw
Instead of PP, it could be P,throw.
counter hit ~ special throw =T5 king’s ff+4
Special throws while opponent is stunned, = like the air throws in T5, SC3 and DOA4.
They can’t block a punch or kick, why not a throw?
Not normal throws, because they can cause too much damage.
Just frame hit ~ throw = T5 King’s f+3:1+2 Jeffry has one too in VF4.
Air throws
That could work like a normal combo hit, and so.... it doesn't need to be escapable.
As long as it doesn't do, or lead to ridiculous damage.
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Jigsaw
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 •03/15/2006 09:30 PM (UTC) •
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Of course there are special exceptions, but I meant that in a general sense, throws shouldn't be inescapable.
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hhh316
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I come from the night sky, I am Zobi

•03/16/2006 12:22 AM (UTC) •
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MKA will be agood game but it still won't be as good as Tekken or Virtua Fighter (I am talking gameplay wise).wow
I think It's going to take a long time before it gets to that level.
Adding some of the basics though would help it catch up a little.
Expecting it to be on the level of Tekken or VF, IMO is kind of unrealistic at this point.
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Senese
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 •04/02/2006 03:01 PM (UTC) •
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SCREW EVO
why?
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RustyNail
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 •04/02/2006 04:37 PM (UTC) •
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If your a real mortal kombat fan, then no mortal kombat game sucked. If you suck at playing you would say what that guy said. tongue
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nobrainer
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 •04/02/2006 04:46 PM (UTC) •
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RustyNail Wrote:
If your a real mortal kombat fan, then no mortal kombat game sucked. If you suck at playing you would say what that guy said. tongue

No.
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BadChad
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 •04/02/2006 04:51 PM (UTC) •
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hjs-Q Wrote:
It's official, MKA will be crap.
The moves are even faster than before, its a guessing game again....
"The new Parry system" - DA poor reversals with a new name.
When Boon was asked about Wake up game (good job MKO for asking) he just started mumbling, clearly, we will not have anything.
You can take your created character online?? wtf?? This will ruin online.
And for those who believe Boon who keeps saying they will the test the bosses and bla bla bla...... Midway couldn't test 24 characters you really think they will fully test 60?
Good. then you don't have to bother even playing it. That leaves one more copy for someone who will appreciate and deserve the honor of playing it.
You are judging a game that isn't even finished yet. Most of your gripes are senseless rubbish that most 'average' players won't even notice much less give a shit about. parrys, wake up game, online - who cares? nothing but pissing & moaning.
As I said, don't even bother buying it, much less rent it. You'd obviously be wasting you time. Find some other video game to play and cry about.
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Versatile
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 •04/02/2006 05:18 PM (UTC) •
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^ You are ignorant. Take your posts elsewhere.
This is a fighting game. To say we shouldn't be worried about gameplay when the last 2 sequels sucked in that regard is stupid.
If anyone isn't being productive here it's people like you: "pissing and moaning" about us being worried about a franchise some of us have adored for over a decade.
Like Dan and overs have said before, unless you've played MKD/MKDA competetively and know about the game then we care more about the color of our vomit than what any of you scrubs have to say. You know nothing about the game outside of beating konquest, unlocking all the characters and knowing "the combos". What you say carries no weight in our eyes.
With that out of the way, MKA will be really fun I think.
One worry I have is whether regular juggles will see a return or not. Is it me, or is Ed Boon going to completely act like regular juggles never existed and make all juggles involve air? I could imagine every launcher sending them real high into the air.
On the other hand, air combat can simply just be a gimmick. I would not be surprised if both air combat AND regular juggling make a return, and that air juggles will be almost COMPLETELY irrelevant due to doing less damage than regular juggles. All the best players will notice this right away and just stick to the regular juggle format from MKD.
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nobrainer
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 •04/02/2006 05:43 PM (UTC) •
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Badchad: What do you mean 'average' players won't notice these flaws?
Sorry, but the flaws are glaring and plain to see!
I consider myself an 'average' player and I definately want to see these flaws fixed. They've been mentioned in many other threads besides this one, people have sent emails to Midway, but they just don't care. I'll be all the more happy than you will, when Midway does something about this.
A wake-up game would be so easy to impliment for one thing. It's not too late at this stage to change things for the better. Please Boon, please...
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themasterab
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Cage always wins, and in MK u will be Caged!

 •04/02/2006 06:39 PM (UTC) •
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To me I don't care I always like playing Mortal Kombat and how do you know MKA is crap you haven't even played it yet idoit who did posted this subject.furious
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ErmacMk5
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 •04/02/2006 06:41 PM (UTC) •
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I don't really play MK for serious gaming; I play it for fun. I don't care about 50/50 and all that shit. I just like Ripping people's heads off.
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Satyagraha
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"You see, I face a whole new Monster!! I face a man, who represents, the Nintendo Entertainment System..."

 •04/02/2006 06:49 PM (UTC) •
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Chrome
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 •04/02/2006 07:07 PM (UTC) •
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BadChad Wrote:
hjs-Q Wrote:
It's official, MKA will be crap.
The moves are even faster than before, its a guessing game again....
"The new Parry system" - DA poor reversals with a new name.
When Boon was asked about Wake up game (good job MKO for asking) he just started mumbling, clearly, we will not have anything.
You can take your created character online?? wtf?? This will ruin online.
And for those who believe Boon who keeps saying they will the test the bosses and bla bla bla...... Midway couldn't test 24 characters you really think they will fully test 60?
Good. then you don't have to bother even playing it. That leaves one more copy for someone who will appreciate and deserve the honor of playing it.
You are judging a game that isn't even finished yet. Most of your gripes are senseless rubbish that most 'average' players won't even notice much less give a shit about. parrys, wake up game, online - who cares? nothing but pissing & moaning.
As I said, don't even bother buying it, much less rent it. You'd obviously be wasting you time. Find some other video game to play and cry about.

However from what it looks like we can deduct that it is still flawed. Per-haps slightly better than MKD but flawed. There is no honor in a video game, stop exhalting it like if it were your life, and if that is the case, than I feel sorry for you.
Who cares about parrys, wake up game, online? The majority of the game community and that is a self evident fact you cannot debate. Stop trying to justify Midways actions and statements next to their lower quality game de-sign.
By the way you kept on babblibng but your whole post lacked one syntactic strongpoint. That was substance. Essentially you just babbled some self-absorbed nonsense.
themasterab Wrote:
To me I don't care I always like playing Mortal Kombat and how do you know MKA is crap you haven't even played it yet idoit who did posted this subject.furious

OH WOW! New standard of the lowest. I never seen someone with reduced
syllable fusion skills spell IDIOT wrong, well, not to this day at least. Plea-se get bent, at least MKFlegend states that he has casual needs, and so-mewhat goes easilzy on Midway.

EDIT: hahaha, check his sig, I can't help myself but L.O.L.
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nobrainer
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 •04/02/2006 07:20 PM (UTC) •
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ErmacMk5 Wrote:
I don't really play MK for serious gaming; I play it for fun. I don't care about 50/50 and all that shit. I just like Ripping people's heads off.

Why can't we both have what we want? The players who want a logical, balanced fighting system and the players who want to see heads ripped off? I'm both of those. It would be so easy to impliment some basics... it doesn't have to be like Tekken or Virtua Fighter, it just has to have fun gameplay that involves baiting, mind-games, and circumstancial estimation among other things. It can be simple and still have these things.
I'm not a serious gamer either, but MK's current system is so shite, I don't even want to play it. On the other hand, I like the game's character's and theme, so can't the gameplay and the art direction be equally good?
Understand.
Lows and high/mids with the same animation properties + no throw escapes + no wake-up game + no counter hit props + annoying tracking glitch passed on through two games = shite, guessing game with a large repetoire of useless moves and tactics. MK is repetition plus guessing.
Yes, spacing and move knowledge is involved, but the main aim of the game is to force your opponent to guess your next move once you've planted them. Not anticipate or estimate based on the circumstance, but a blind in the dark, no-skill guess. The game does have some skill obviously, based on spacing and knowledge, and good players make the most of what they've got, but the 50/50 gameplay devolves the game into a couple of tactics, whether you play online, with friends or yes, against the cpu.
I play for fun too, but this game is not fun.
sad
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ErmacMk5
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 •04/02/2006 07:24 PM (UTC) •
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I agree that it'd be nice if MK was a truly great game; I'd love all of these additions.
At the same time, I only really fight the computer, so all of these concepts don't really bother me at all. It'd be cool if they could fix the gameplay though.
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Chrome
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 •04/02/2006 07:36 PM (UTC) •
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ErmacMk5 Wrote:
I agree that it'd be nice if MK was a truly great game; I'd love all of these additions.
At the same time, I only really fight the computer, so all of these concepts don't really bother me at all. It'd be cool if they could fix the gameplay though.

We need more of your kind here, truly. I wish that people would be like nobrainer and you, at least when it comes to game mechanisms at le-
ast.
-shoots himself-
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nobrainer
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 •04/02/2006 07:45 PM (UTC) •
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ErmacMk5 Wrote:
I agree that it'd be nice if MK was a truly great game; I'd love all of these additions.
At the same time, I only really fight the computer, so all of these concepts don't really bother me at all. It'd be cool if they could fix the gameplay though.

I'm glad you agree about that. Just let me try to explain what I mean by mind games lacking in MK:
In Tekken (Again best example) I can estimate my opponent's moves based on the specific circumstance. This occurs much less frequently in MK due to the guessing-like nature of the game brought on most strongly after a plant. Yes, there are mind games, but they are too shallow.
Say, I knock an opponent to the floor in Tekken. They decline the opportunity to roll out and instead lie there, trying to bait me on. At this point as I approach them, I can estimate my tactic based on the situaton; whether I approach and anticipate a rising ankle kick based on their decision to bait me. Any other attacking option would be too slow from their position unless a double kick* is properly timed. The ankle kick is weak in damage, but they might just try it. On the other hand, they may just side roll as a defense. I can prepare a low parry for the ankle kick, time my approach for the double kick, or sidestep and prepare for a side roll, or punish the foolish option of a back/forwards roll.
Now, my knowledge of the game is basic and I'm sure more serious players will laugh at the way I've attempted to explain the above. But, the way I see it; there are some mind games going on here. Another example would be baiting a short combo into a throw.
These often apply to playing against the computer and human players, as they are caused by the basic mechanics of the game and are not overly dependant on the AI routines.
In MK, I'd probably just do my 50/50.
*I don't actually know the proper terms for these moves, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
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MK_krazy
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 •04/02/2006 08:16 PM (UTC) •
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i to am an 'average' player and yes nobrainer that is a nice example.
another thing to add is that tekken has different aspects for different characters, for example:
King is a pro wrestler type so i have to take that into account when facing him and be ready to escape more throws than usual.
Steve is a boxer so i am going to have to think about blocking high and parrying punches.
bruce uses tae kwon doe, so i have to keep my distance away from his kicks and parry against kicks.
Xiaoyu uses alot of low attacks so i have to be ready to block low.
these are a few examples on how you have to analyse your opponent and how he attacks and defends. MK doesn't have alot or doesn't have at all this kind of character development and this is another thing i would like to see.
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