...Though, even I know there is a difference between being simple and workable. Mk has never been hardcore, but it should at least try to work at a basic level, which is something it fails too do.
There's no working risk vs reward for MKD beyond which attacks have the quickest startup and recovery. I actually think all games should have counter-hits, some may disagree, but it would certainly help make more of the move list useful if the moves had different properties given by a counter-hit. That would solve the move deficiency problem.
We all know that the throws are ridiculous. Bottom line, they're inescapable infinite set-ups (most of the infinites work from throws)
They need be made escapable, but also there must be more than one throw with different execution and escape commands to prevent having the same escape command attached to every move.
No wake-up game. You can have a player stand over you and attack as you rise with a throw or a 50/50...
I'm not going to mention anymore, we've heard it all before throughout this thread and others, there are basic requirements for a working fight system and MK doesn't have these. I agree with hsj-Q, I just don't like the way he calls non-gameplay fanatics "scrubs".
MK needs fixing, but be nice about it, OK, hsj?

I'm a scrub? lol!

Yeah, see, that's the BIG issue for me; simplicity. I'm ALL ABOUT simplicity, I love it. The problem is that MK IS simplistic, really simplistic, yet it can't even do that shit right. What simple shit is implemented lacks cohesiveness, function and logic. That's what amazes me; the game is soooo striped down. To much so IMO because certain decesions and creativity are totally out of the players control.
Like I say, I am intrigued by the air combat, as much ass I believe it will blow, it interests me. Same with KAK, but that's about it. I'm also totally down with a meter management system. I've always thought MK could benefit from this. But, like with anything else, only if done properly....and properly seams to be a foreign word, lol.
Mr.S
Maaaan, Naruto looks sick. You have any more links to vids or a forum where I can read up on it. Maybe when I move back to seattle I'll pick up a GC and see if I can get my boys into it. I'm sure some kids in the Anime club here at school would be "into it." ....I'm not about to put myself through that torture, though.
Also, do you know how effeciently it can be played with stick, as opposed to pad?

I have said it before and I'll probably say it again (and again and again and again...) that I will withhold judgment until I can actually play the game. Despite a past track record, it's still foolish to say a game will suck based on the games that preceded it, even games that use the same engine (in that regard, many games that use the same engine are vastly different despite that fact, such as Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Zelda: Majora's Mask, for a quick example.) I'm skeptical since there are so many characters, but the game certainly can't get any worse. If nothing else, it'll be the most improved of the past few games, which were alright in my opinion to begin with. Games are a matter of taste, just like art, so its as simple as sticking with what you do like and avoiding what you don't like, but saying an art piece sucks before even seeing it, even though you've seen an artists other works, lacks common sense and shows ignorance. It might suck, it might not. Who are we to know for sure until the game is in our hands? If you're wary, give it a rental. If you know you'll like it, buy it up. If you hate the franchise with passion (which, oddly enough, some people on these boards seem to; not all, but some), just don't buy it and got back to Tekken or Dead or Alive or whatever it is you play. Hope for the best, expect the worse, that way you're never disappointed.

Oh, snap, my bad bro. My apologies. Yes, I'm an ass. I'll edit my previous post.

AAHHHH, the million dollar question man.I love it how some say "don't get too happy about the teaser parry that has yet to be finished btw, yet they already have the game sucking before it's even out.So, one could say doesn't that apply either.
Ok, fine the optimistic MK fans might not be right, but the same can be said about he less optimistic MK fans that already have the game sucking.

Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love you man lol.
The point I have been stating for centuries on this site lol.We are outnumbered bro lol.

We have the "mechanics"" sucking. And I'm gonig to hold you to that "teaser parry that has yet to be finnished" comment in six months, and we see that it hasn't changed.
And yes, mlsq42, MKO does need a sarcasm smiley, haha. Along with an "I'd hit it" smiley.

You can pretty much tell how it's going to be by looking at past efforts.
In every MK game for that matter. Not just the last two.
But since these last games are more complex, it's easier to find more potential flaws.
And using the artist example again.
If someone that doesn't know how to draw is going to make another drawing.
How do you expect the game to come out?
How accurate is this assumption?
You can tell by looking at their past works.
How about a good artist
If someone has a pattern, like they draw comic book characters a lot.
what do you expect their next drawing to be?
How do you expect it to come out?
Again, you can tell by looking at their past works.
And doing so with the MK team, you can tell that they are not very good at designing fighting mechanics for a fighting game.
They will improve over time, but it's unrealistic to expect them to go from making very badly designed game play to great designed game play, from 1 game to the next in a short period of time.
It's possible, but unlikely
Also, seeing the interviews and game play footage. You can already tell the direction the next game is heading.
All you need to do is know a lot about fighting game mechanics, open your eyes, and use some logic = educated guess
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I’ll speak for my self on the “ go play the other games instead comment “
I as an MK fan that looks for game play in a fighting game, want to play an MK game with great game play. I like the fireballs, the characters, story etc. and want great combat to go with it.
Simple enough right?
I like to play the other games too, but I’m an MK fan, and I want to play an awesome MK game.
If it doesn’t happen I’ll just play the other games like I do now, I won’t die from it.
Still, I’ll voice my opinion or request on the subject in case something comes of it. Or just cause it’s an interesting subject to talk about.
I've learned more about game play design because of MK's flaws than any other reason. Thinking of ways to fix MK's game play and doing some research for it, forced me to learn a lot of small details about the other games I play.

go eats some hay.

I,too,will wait until the game comes out before making any final judgements.However...
But I seriously don't understand why some of you had so much hope for the next MK game.Boon does NOT know what makes a good fighting game engine,and neither does he seemingly care to know.If he had cared,he would have implemented a wake up game in MK:D already.
So,thus far,we got 3 frames fast moves,still no wake up game,still aparently unblockable throws,no clear sign of a frame advantage,and that with supposedly 60+ characters and an online play?
Damn,this seems like MK:D all over again.Thus,Boon = moron.

You know what I just thought of something... IF this game ends up totally kicking ass and becoming the greatest Mortal Kombat game ever in creation, I am going to laugh my ass off at everyone who is SO passionate about this being a horrible game.
My money says that they will still be trying to find reasons to flame it if they are proven wrong.

Yeah,Boon will magically gain superior knowledge of fighting engines and test his supposedly 60+ character game for infinite combos and other glitches for about two months.
Face the reality here and use your common sense,dude.History repeats itself,so why will MK:A be any different from MK:DA and MK:D if Boon doesn't care or isn't ready to put his efforts in the fighting engine?
But you've got one point right.Let's wait and see for ourselves...

Hey I'm not saying Armageddon WILL be awesome, I'm just saying anything is possible, Boon just might actually take the time with this one, he might be a douche and rush it... gotta wait and see.

^Understand this. If by some crazy twist of fate or monumental shift in the space-time continuum that MKA is mechanically superior or even on par with other fighters, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, will be happier to have been totally wrong than us. NONE OF US WANTS TO BE RIGHT ABOUT THIS (again), but past experience has taught us to know better. But like you said, we'll just wait and see. I hope we're wrong.
edit: Hey, Dave, when you said some moves come out in 3 frames, were you just exaggerating a little, or do some moves literally come out in 3 frames?! If so, what else can ya do but laugh?

That is quite possibly the most intelligent thing said in this thread.

I cannot believe that the MK team read the posts made here.
If that is the case, how is it they can miss a 19 page thread devoted to Gameplay that clearly spells out the shortfalls of the gameplay, and not even attempt to fix or even acknowledge them.
I can understand that they don't want to admit that they have a bad game, but these are things that have been posted about since MKDA was released, if not before.
The problems, reasons and even resolutions have been posted that many times, there's no reason for them not to do something about it.
In the end, a game that plays better benefits everyone.

This entire post is sig material:

How can anyone possibly argue with this?

-.-'' It's impossible at this point for the gameplay to be horrible seeing as no one has played it yet. And, just because the gameplay 'looks' horrible we gotta remember that the game is still not complete. When it's complete we'll be recieving the game a three weeks later or something. Everybody...just wait, 'kay?
Hmm...i realize that when I say 'wait till the game comes out' everyone objects...when a guy says they all agree,lol. Oh wellz. At least I'm sayin something

let me, konqrr, check, thug, and a few others test it, and i promise most of the bugs will be found.

Saty,
Glad to see someone checked out my links! hahaha
Anime club? hehe i'd sign up for one of those to get some cheap competition! lol maybe not... Honestly I started watching the show because the game was so kick ass. Turns out, all the shit in the fighting game has like 3-4 years of background story from the cartoon and comic. So it was fun to watch.
Here's a couple more links for ya to check out.
(japanese players) - eiyujpn
(american players) - Willvolution
***Cuz your nationality has everything to do with your fighting game ability!!!!!!!***</sarcasm>
willvolution.com has a pretty nice forum, vids, n stuff. Hey, i even think I've seen Ray post over there. That scrub... LOL!

I'm getting a funny vibe from the Air-Combat demonstration.
For a start, he's got one thing right; that's making them strings and not dial-a-combos. This allows them to be parried.
...But, the air combat may turn out be useless and the high level players will be confined the ground as in Deception.
The air combat seems to be initiated by a double pop-up, this tells me that unless they've changed the combo system the damage is going to be reduced from aerial hits. On the other hand, the aerial combos might be the main tactic and be dealers of enormous damage providing the damage scaling is different.
The one bad thing about stringable aerial attacks is that the team will have their work cut out ensuring there are no repetitive re-launchers as opposed to assigning simple properties to prevent these in dial-a-combos.
What do you think about these stringed attacks?

I think it reeks of MK4.

No,someone said that in a previous page.I don't think the moves in MK:DA or MK:D are that fast.However,amazingly,I believe that the recent 3D games only have two different frame rates as far as move execution is concerned among non-special moves (i.e. I believe mid pops up,such as Dairou's b+1 in Escrima,are a little slower than something that starts with a jab,such as Shujinko's 1,4,4 in his Shaolin stance).But you can never really know since EVERYTHING in MK:D is punishable OFF-LINE,even low pokes (i.e. Smoke's d+1).Thus,you can't make any reasonable predictions on how fast something is since there are no logical recoveries after blocked moves (i.e. you can immediately move after you get your low poke blocked,but you cannot block yourself to avoid the in-coming attack).Boon needs to stop being a lazy idiot and add safe moves as well as frame advantage into the game.
But the worst thing in MK:DA and MK:D is that lows come out as fast as mids.It's humanly impossible to react to them (and I can break BRC's f+3 on reaction most of the time with a breaker).So,when those lows knock down,and there's no wake up game,it'll be 50/50 mix ups all over again.
Lows that give too much advantage or knock down must be anywhere between 20-30 frames fast in order for a good human player to be able to react to them and block them.
But,again,I'm just wasting my time with shit.What are the chances Boon will fix this?

Never played MK4. Still, it's better than dial-a-combos, isn't it?