Pretty much what Dr.Cube said. The reason MKDA/MKD were bad was because they lacked fundamental gameplay mechanics.
There was no wakeup game, so 50/50 mixups dominate the core gameplay.
There are no throw escapes, making throws terribly overpowered, as well as leading to infinites.
Individual moves lack logical frame data, creating a wacky risk/reward ratio in which ridiculously fast, safe moves can lead to insane damage.
A lack of move properties causes slow, unsafe moves to be rendered totally useless because the reward for using them is not worth the risk.
Because combo chains are used instead of escapable strings, as soon as one move hits, you're forced to eat all the damage of a combo in its entirety, or waste a finite amount of breakers in order to break out of the combo.
Then there are the testing issues. Glitches galore which allow free throws and OTG's which usually lead to ridiculous infinites, ruining the game. Universal Tracking seriously limits the usefuleness of side-stepping. Moving before the round even starts, etc.
The reason people say MKA will suck is because based on what we've seen and heard so far, there is virtually zero evidence that any of the fundamental mechanics that would eliminate virtually all of the problems listed above have been implemented.

I haven't been active in this thread but from what I've read it's the same old back and forth that we've done so many times before. The point is, which a lot of people don't seem to understand, is that we've been burned before. And not just once. If you keep buying the same brand of apple juice over and over and it keeps tasting like watered down urine, then how long do you wait before switching brands or at least start complaining that your juice tastes like piss? It's not like we're "out to get" Mortal Kombat. It's that we've seen these little "mechanics" (if you want to call them that) before. They didn't work right in MK4, they didn't work right in Deadly Alliance, and they didn't work right in Deception. The fact that Shaolin Monks, a game in a completely different genre, has a better fighting mechanic than the dedicated fighting games should say something. So if we look at the parries, air kombat, and whatever else they show with a critical eye and even a cynical one, it's not because we're just picking on Boon and Co. It's because they haven't proven to us that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
What happens if MKA gets released and the parries don't work right? Then you can come back to this thread and see who here was right and who was wrong. At the same time, MK8 vids will be available and the same people in this thread who said that the parries wouldn't work will be saying that whatever is shown in MK8 won't work either. Yet despite them having been right about MKA, you'll still say "Wait to actually PLAY MK8 before you judge it!" How many times does someone have to be right before they're taken seriously? The reason I bring this up is because I remember quite vividly that some people in this very thread said that Deception's engine wouldn't work and got chewed out because the game was still in development. Well lo and behold, they were right. And now when the same guys give their input about MKA, they get the same "Wait for the game" responses. How many times do you "wait for the game" before you realize that you're not getting a quality product?

we hav been askin 4 a mk trilogy 2 since god knows when , now since its happened ppl want to conplain. I believe ppl will always hav something to conplain about. PPL wanted to customize and make their own characters or ppl wanted certain characters to look a certain way( but now that midway created it yall want to conplain about it., ppl wanted faster gamepla well midway created it now again yall want to conplain. Plus by adding the parry system there is NO ROOM 4 INFINITES dumbasses, midway seen how cheezy players used infinites on mkdeception so that was the purpose of the parry system. Plus the parry system wil keep the game moving fast. SO here it is: I've played dead or alive and I hav 2 say that that game is improving as well as mk games r improving, but on dead or alive I dont like the kombo system or the controls but the gameplay is ok plus its like mk, but the reason why I think mk is better is because::::::
Mk has mostly everything that current fightin games hav but u know why its better because it has nice ass stages plus u can finish people on some of these stages and they hav fatalities.
ED BOON is smart cuz the whole time everyone was complaining about mk deadly allience they were and already knew what they were going to do 4 mka so instead of them bringing it strait out when they made deadly allience they did it in sections (meaning): mkda to mkd to mka also meaning they remade the characters in better form when mkda came out over the mk4 and mk gold character and graphic form and because the characters looked more defined as well as it was a smart idea to make fightin styles. Plus if ur gonna make a fightin game u would want to hav different fightin styles and shit like that, besides its a mk tournment so defining the way a person moves and styles they use made since.
NOW ED BOON in mkda he brought back mostly old characters cuz he wanted to remake some of those characters moves and fatalities with the upgraded graphics they had since they didnt get a chance to do it in mk4 but in a way they did because they had a new 3d system so they had to transfer the moves and characters and fatalities to 3d thats when they made mk4 but also that game was ok but midway knew they could do better so thatz when they transferred the game again and that was when they made mkda, plus mkd was to mkda what umk3 was to mk3 (only an upgrade) now mka is only a super better upgrade which what it was designed for. Besides it made since to add everything in mka cuz its the last mk tournment fightin game on ps2 and everyone isn't going 2 buy a ps3 when it comes out so atleast mka can hold u over on the ps2 until the ps3 version of a mk game and if ur not buyin a ps3 right away when it comes out at least u wont get bored with the ps2 version of a mk game. Also thats the reason 4 a creat e ur own (this )and( that )modes. By the create modes online u can always challege a different player and their character so its like a infinite amount of characters in all, SHIT I THINK THAT IS JUST FUKIN GREAT!! that way it takes along time b4 u get bored with this game maybe after 4 years after it comes out.
Lastly: altogether this is what it is
MKDA- MOSTLY ORIGINAL characters plus new ones
mkd- the other remaining characters plus a few new ones
mka-the first half of characters plus the second half of characters plus more returning old characters plus everyone!!

Deadly Alliance isn't crap!
Minor glitches, but the game had balance gameplay. But saying Deadly Alliance is crap, is laughable.
Deception on the other hand, had a broke combo breaker and unbalanced branching combos. And certain fighting styles that lacked combos.
Deception also lacked a better side step move, to avoid being trapped
into a combo.
I'd get battered pretty bad, before my character would actually execute the breaker.
Hopefully this Perry System will redeem Breakers in new way.
I think air combos from Armageddon look silly. But i don't hate them, because i haven't tested it out myself yet!
Maybe Sheeva couldve broken out Strykers stomp move. That was just one demostration of the Air Combos.
I do hate the fact that there were so many death trap arenas in Deception.
Hopefully that isn't the case with Armageddon.
About the engine, i quote!
The engine doesn't suck! Its how the engine is set up, that flawed.
If they were to balance out everone's fighting styles, combos and fix the combo breaker.
I'm pretty sure this game will rock.
To simply say that the gameplay sucks because you watched the videos is absurd.
There still eight months left.

For the love of God MKF, stop living in the past. MK2 isn't a good fighting game. UMK3 was though and it was a total fluke of how good it became. Besides, WTF does this have to do with these new GARBAGE games? You're bringing up shit from 11 years ago trying to justify how terrible MKDA, MKD, and MKA are. WTF! MK2 was totally over shadowed by SF2, BTW.
When Boon himself admits he had no clue there was air combos in MK2 until AFTER it was out, that speaks so many volumes. But not as much as him admitting with pride that MKA will be more rock, paper, scissors. Wow, out of all my years of playing fighting games, I've never heard a fighting game developer admit such a thing. That's something you DONT admit. That's something you be ashamed of. Further proof Boon has no idea what a fighting game is.
MK is not as legendary as Tekken, either. Stop being so deluded. And MK's "legend" is for all the wrong reasons in the fighting game realm. None of them have to do with gameplay. You know, the entire point of a fighting game. It's popularity is only in the states, anyway.
You're a sheep. Stop talking to me. Weren't you done with these gameplay threads? I'm pretty sure you said that. Yet, here you are. You must read my factually awesome posts and feel the need to counter them. Only problem is you're not countering anything. All you're doing is just typing a bunch of nonsense. You may aswell just start replying to me with cooking recipes. That would be just the same as what you're doing now. Now go make another clay sculpter. Of Ed Boon. With money in his hands. And a sound bite of him laughing at you
LOLOLOLOLOLOL @ MKDA HAVING BALANCED GAMEPLAY!!!!!!!!

How was MK2 overshadowed by SF2 when MK2 was released 2 years after street fighter 2?

Because SF2 was far more popular even during MK2's run. Hence it being over shadowed. I hope you understand this.

Worldwide probably, In my area (southern united states) MK2 spread like wildfire here, was in every arcade, loundromat, and even funreral homes, while SF2 stayed in the arcades, but your probably right.

Actually, I thought MKDA was a pretty decent effort for a group of developers that had never attempted a fully 3D fighter before. However, please explain to me what is so laughable about saying that MKDA's gameplay was crap. It quickly devolved into pure 50/50 mixups, throws were blockable, (seriously, wtf?), and it used an outdated dial-a-combo system that had become obsolete during the 2D era. MKDA also gave birth to one of our most beloved glitches, Mr. Universal Tracking.

I don't think the breaker itself was broken, it was that the games core mechanics (or lack thereof) created the need for it. For the most part, the breaker pretty much does what it's supposed to do. It allows a player to escape from a combo. The problem is that combos in MK are guaranteed after the initial hit, creating the need for breakers. Once your 3 breakers are used up, you're fucked. Better not get hit with anything. If MK used combo strings where it is possible to block, duck, or even side-step mid-combo, you would eliminate the need for breakers altogether and vastly improve the gameplay at the same time.

That's our friend Mr. Universal Tracking again, a problem left over from MKDA, the game which you said calling it crap was laughable.

Too bad we got chains instead of strings. You wouldn't even need that breaker.

Eh, not really. Remember, the combos are still chains, so once you eat the initial hit, you won't be able to execute the parry. You'll still have to waste a breaker to break out of the combo. The parry will only be useful when you've blocked a combo and want to parry your opponent in the middle of it, or when you anticipate a single attack from your opponent. It really won't affect the way breakers are used.

Okay....

Then why even bother to mention that you think they look silly?

Actually, you're pretty close to the money on this one. When people like me and others talk about the "engine", it's really just a generic term for mechanics. There really is no such thing as a "fighting engine", per se. The engine is what powers the games graphical capabilities and lighting and other aesthetic effects, or some shit. It doesn't really affect the actual gameplay at all. It is the core gameplay mechanics and the way they are implemented that make the gameplay bad.

If I had a million dollars, I'd be a millionaire.

Based on what logic? We have seen absolutely no evidence so far that the things that will fix MK's gameplay and make it work correctly have been implemented. What other conclusion are we supposed to come to?

I don't care if there are 8 years left. After countless dissapointments, I have seen nothing that would leave me to believe that the MK team even knows or cares what problems exist, let alone implement the solutions.

Thats why Mortal Kombat Online created the sticky, for the Gameplay Plans. So you and others can tell Ed & Co, how to fix and improve the fighting engine.
If you feels like the're not getting the input from this site. You could always e-mail them!

Actually, we're gonna try to do one better than that. Apparently, MasterMalone is gonna be going to E3 to hopefully talk to some of the peeps at Midway about MK's gameplay needs. Apparently he was able to do so last year as well. So, I am holding out hope that that goes well.

Cool! I wish him luck!
Ps
Is he going to take a transcript with him? You know, a print out of all the sugestions and imput we want to get out to them.

Why can't people who support MK actually give an VALID reasons why it can be a good game, or why MK is better than any other fighter? Seriously people who criticize MK always have great points and prove themselves. All the other people just bring up the fact that "Oh but it has every MK character!!!!!!!", obviously these people have absolutely no clue wtf they're talking about. Just look at outworld and wtflegend. Outworld doesnt even know what a damn wake-up game is, and wtflegend says stuff "about this frame-rate crap".

To Vasculio: Trust me, bro, Malone doesn't need a transcript. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what to ask. He knows his shit.
And now for another fun post:

Who's "we"?

How is any of that relevant to this particular thread?

Okay, I see Billy here has an opinion of some sort. Not sure what it could be seeing as how I have no fucking clue what "faster gamepla" is.

Oh, the sweet, glorious irony! Explain to me, in detail please, how parries will eliminate free throws and OTG's.(OMFG! That rhymed!)

Rofl! Typical scrub, blaming the "cheezy players" for MKD's faults. "Why, if it wasn't for those cheezy players, infinites wouldn't exist!" Keep living in your ignorant little dream-world.

Wow. How can one even begin to argue with such a logical, well thought out statement such as this? Just out of curiosity, may I ask HOW the parry will "keep the game moving fast"?

Wow! You must, like, win all da cul turnamentz!111 Your fighting game knowledge is unsurpassed, sir.

First of all, why would you use Krackerjack's new name in vain like that? Second of all, please do tell why you think MK is better. Oh, wait, I believe that's coming next...

Really? Last time I played I didn't notice a wakeup game. Or frame advantage. Or throw escapes. Or move properties. Or CH properties. Oh, you said mostly "everything that current fightin games hav". Riiiiiiiiiight....

OMG! Boon iz teh jenious1111!

Rofl! Holy christ, I swear I can't make this shit up!

Wow.

Yah, cuz all fightin games hav fightin stylez an shit like dat. Wurd.

Yah, cuz, since its a mk tournment, tha fighterz gotta be able 2 move an stuff.

Wow, so like, what you're saying is, like, ED BOON made MK4, and then later, like, made MKDA with, like, a new 3d system with, like, moves and characters and fatalities in, like, 3d? Wow!
,
OMG! A super better upgrade! That's just what MK needs!

Oh, who cares.

Simply brilliant. Have you found a publisher yet?

hahaha that was hillarious. Best noob destruction I've seen for a while

Where's the popcorn when you need it?

^I put it in the microwave for too long and....... burned it. Leave it to me to fuck up popcorn.

Cmon MKF! Read before you pick a fight man... You totally misread what he's sayin dude! LOL Menthol's quote is so true it aint even funny.

He's wasting his time. Boon won't even know how to answer the fucking questions and just talk around them like the fucking retarded chimp that he is.
Boon has proven himself to be the hack of hack in the fighting game genre and is laughed at by his peers on a hourly basis.
I clean my ass with these new MKs.

The problem is that MK team is not htat open to suggestions, they are to self centered in their own ideas, they need to listen to the fans, but nost just by giving us more characters and fatalities, they should give us a complete yet simple fighting system (nothing like DOA or Tekken) MK is not like that.
Boon and Co need to listen to the fan demands specially gameplay and online wise, they made so many flaws on Deception it was almost laughable.

I see MK tuning into an more indepth Power Stone style fighter thats very multiplayer focused. I think the MK team could pull it off

The way I see it is; Mortal Kombat Armageddon will be good for me, as a storyline junky. I'm very much looking forward to it. But on the gameplay aspect, even with a degree of changes and things I hope they do to tweak it and make it run better, it will still be an average game at best.
I don't want them to put wake-up in here, or anything that would improve it possibly. Why? Because I can see it going down with this craptastic engine. I'd rather wait a few years until MK8 roles around on 360 and PS3 than see them attempt to recover for lost time with this generation of games.
Some of the idea's they have would work well, I think, if they did them right. Kreate-A-Fighter is a good one, and well-welcomed. Kreate-A-Fatality is good too. With Konquest, it was a great step forward, and I see the newer one with Armageddon as being probably their best effort yet, but unfortunately, the crappy fighting mechanics will more-than-likely overshadow it.
The 'Fight State Indicators' in Deception were a nice touch, but it would be better if it were more usuable. I never use them when playing, and I still kick ass when playing arcade on the hardest difficulty. The combo breaker system was not that great, however. It barely ever worked for me. The gameplay was too slow, too robotic. With Deadly Alliance though, if you play them back-to-back, the gameplay to me feels a little more fluid. It looks a lot better in Armageddon, but still not good enough. All I can say is, atleast in some aspects, it seems they are trying to go forth in the right direction. They aren't there yet, but hopefully if we keep at it, the pushing will increase and the MK team will eventually listen. I think MK has a great chance to shine on next-gen systems, and I can only hope they use the time available to create a new engine that rivals the games we use in example to try and help MK, like in this very topic.

Bro, how did I misunderstand what he said?He said that he refuses to buy any more MK games, yet he's still here why is that?Let me guess to attempt to help but in reality he's only bashing the hell out of MK.He's talking more about Tekken then MK, not for nothing but I really don't care about Tekken lol.I still love ya KF, don't worry man. ; )
Now, to menthol and no I don't hate you lol:
MK is more legendary then Tekken man, ok perhaps NOT in japan but that's a no duh really, it is.Over here in the USA, different story my friend, it wasn't overshadowed by SF II.Every time I went to the arcades there were tons of people playing the both of them a hell of a lot more then "The mighty Tekken" note.I had to wait in line to play MK bro, it was getting rather annoying and then once UMK3 came out, it was worse.A pack of people like a bunch of rabid wolves around a dead animal feasting on it's body. lol
Also, MK 2 sucked? WHAT???!!! No offense bro, but are you smoking something? lol ok, I'll stop living in the past when people stop saying shit like MK has always disappointed, always sucked ass.What the hell is that BS?As for UMK3, that game owned enough said.
We all know that the oldschool MK's are in a league of their own that perhaps the newer ones can't live up to but still none the less offer new things.
I give bleed a lot of credit for at least trying to write to Midway, where I bet the rest of the bashers in here have yet to do so.I mean, come on at least if you tried everything in your power to get the message through and nothing happens, then I can see you getting a little annoyed.But honestly, how the hell is bitching endlessly on a MKO board going to help?
Boon's a busy man now days with the newer MK's, you guys act as if he has all the time in the world to come on here and read all of this BS which only a select few present well such as bleed for example.He can post what he wants in a mature and NONE bashing matter.
It's not a hard concept, I mean you do realize that you're are indeed competing with OTHER MK fans.The ones that are obsessed with Fatalitie, stages, characters, online play, new things being implemented and such.Every MK fan is different, it's just a matter of which division you fall under.Like this, I'm not a MK fan that just cares about Fatalities or just one thing.I'm not an MK fan that just cares about Gameplay, yes it's important but it's far from everything.I don't just care about character selection or who's in it and who's not.Although, it's appealing to hear that everyone will be in it which is something that most fighters have yet to do.I an MK Fan that loves and cares about everything, not just dwell on one thing.I want it all, characters, gameplay, online, KAK, Konquest, arenas, Fatalities, everything!!!!Give me everything, not just one improved element Boon.
Well, I have pick up my paycheck soon so, Round 30 between Gameplay fans vs. Diehard MK fans coming up.

Eh, not really. Remember, the combos are still chains, so once you eat the initial hit, you won't be able to execute the parry. You'll still have to waste a breaker to break out of the combo. The parry will only be useful when you've blocked a combo and want to parry your opponent in the middle of it, or when you anticipate a single attack from your opponent. It really won't affect the way breakers are used.

if thats what theyre planning to do with parries, then theyll be pretty useless as you can already do a combo while the op is in mid combo (depending on your timing, and the character) just let off block before the next hit lands and combo em.
i just hope they remove all the infinates and dont end up with more. mkda only had a couple and mkd had multples per character.
and please...PLEASE, remove that bullshit delay that you call "recovery time". it pissed me off to use bo rai cho (and others)..throw a punch and wait 10 sec before you could block because the stupid red light was on. if the character isnt in animation and is back in their "stance" then they should be able to block.
there should be more evasions then just a freaking sidestep as well. and the side step isnt all that great. most of the time you still take the hits even if you are sidestepping.
i miss the run button at least give a little bit of a forward dash. the onlt problem with running is: the gameplay is already fast enough to the point you dont need to run. but it could come in handy if someone wants to try full screen projectile trades.

MKF: No offense, bro, but your whole "MK is more legendary than..." argument is stupid. I've already pulled up the sales figures multiple times that prove MK doesn't outsell certain other fighters, but besides that, answer me this:
Why is it that not one incarnation of MK has EVER made its way into EVO? EVO is the biggest fighting game tourney in the country. They play games at EVO sometimes that I didn't even know people still played! The only MK that even had a chance to get in was MKD at last year's EVO. All it needed to get in was 100 people willing to play it. From what I remember, less than 10 signed up. Again, that was right here in the U.S., with U.S. players shunning it. If MK is so legendary here in the U.S., than why is it ignored in favor of games like Tekken 5, 3rd Strike (which is 6-7 years old now, btw), MvC2 (another one that ain't exactly new), etc. Get my point? I mean, think about it. PEOPLE STILL PLAY 3RD STRIKE!! How many peeps are still playing MK4?