Hey wow such hostile words. Yea you are very smart for your age and I was not tring to say age has everything to with being a deep player. I was just simply tring to tell you that most players talk big game. And I would be happy to play anyone at any fighting game. Yes I know japanese kids do not play MK. However you take the best street fighter player in america and pit them against the best japanese player, and the shiznit will hit the fan. It has been done before. I never said I was the best,I was making a point that this is only a certain level of play for MK players. I wish that MK was a deep fighter, but wishing is all that we can do. It will never be a tekken or VF-(the new game is coming out in japan this summer) But it will be another Normal MK. Learn the moves learn the combos. Move on to a new game. I take it for what it is. And I don't need to say bad words, to someone else to make my point. Call me what you want, say anything about me or others that disagree with your threads. We will all still play MK and the MK's after this one Deep or not. Sorry you got so worked up about my post.

If you guys want some MK comp get on znes for some real skill.

Where is the matchmaking forum on this board?

Word.

All this really comes down too, is people caring about different things, placing value in different places. A lot of people couldn't give a rats ass about throws, back throws, shoulder throws, parries, carries, quarter back double delete dash cancellations... and all that stuff. Other's care about it first and foremost. Its just the way of life.

But i think its ignorant to think that if MKD's gameplay is "shallow" just like MKDA's was "shallow"... that's its the fault of MK fans. Thats stupid. Midway is not just making this game to cater to the wishes of the fans. Sure, its going to do some things that fans are asking for. But that goes for gameplay, story, characters... everything.

Masses of people were bitching for Baraka to be in MKDA, and there was no sign of him. Same for Kabal. Sure, there in now... but who's to say that's because of the fans, and not just Midway's desire? If it was because the fans voiced their opinion strongly, they both would have been in DA.

Lots of people are screaming for Reptile, Sonya, Raiden, and Kitana... yet it seems that possibly none of these characters are going to make it. I really don't think that if people started complaining about gameplay, and stopped complaining about smoke... that all of a sudden midway would focus entirely on the "shallow" gameplay.

Besides, even if Midway does focus on characters and stories, who can blame them? Its what the majority of fans are talking about. And IF they're going to listen to the fans... that's what fans want.

People have said that they just have that feeling that MKD won't have strong gameplay just b/c midway hasn't released any real huge info about gameplay. They keep giving character and story and background updates. But so what? Why would they release gameplay info? Their goal is to sell the game. To make as many people as possible want to buy it. And they're doing that the right way

Just look around these boards. When a new character is announced, like smoke, they're are a dozen topics made that immediately get fifty replies. People post "OMFG! Smoke is teh back!!! Yes" or they post "Hell yeah! Smoke will return... what will he be like... discuss here!"

But on the rare occasion Midway does release gameplay information, such as the combo breakers, the switch move, increased speed and movement... no one posts anything. You may see one topic "Combo breakers confirmed. plz discuss" and then it gets four replies

A dozen people have posted in this topic claiming they want better deeper gameplay, not more extras and lots of fatalities. Why aren't these people posting this stuff though?

C'mon Vers, you make this topic, but truth be told... i can't say that i've seen a bunch of topics started by you expressing concern about gameplay, or excitement about the changes they have made to make it deeper.

You're going about this the wrong way. Instead of making a huge ass post complaining to the masses who simply love the deep story and characters, and blood of MK... let them enjoy what they want. They're not as interested in deep gameplay as you. They'd rather have lots of characters, fatalities and an awesome story than SC or DoA or tekken gameplay. And whining about it, and telling them it will be their fault when MKD has "shallow" gameplay, isn't going to change anything in their minds or at Midway.

Instead, why don't you try doing what they're doing. Why don't you do what you complain about them not doing. Why don't you make a bunch of topics discussing various new additions that could be made to gameplay? Why not make new topics expressing your excitement for the confirmation of combo breakers, increased speed, etc? Instead of taking time to preach to everyone that when MKD has shallow gameplay it will be the fans fault, and start matching every "OMFG! Smoke is back... discuss!" topic with your own "OMFG! Combo breakers announced... discuss!" topic.

MKDA won several fighting game awards. It sold 3 million units world wide. It was a HUGE success. Surely they're doing something right. Surely they know what they're doing. Its things like an rpg based Konquest, a puzzle game, a chess game... they're going to appeal to a wider audience than various throw techniques.

With that said, its not like the game can't have both... but this type of nonsense posting thats going on in this topic isn't going to accomplish anything.

I totally agree with Veratile, Bleed and the others. We are being hyped again like we were for Deadly Alliance and will probably not recieve a finished product in the end. Once more the excitement will fade after the repetitive fatalities and silly secrets are revealed. I guess what is the foremost question in my mind is, how can they just not come up with a FUN fighting system. Fun being the key. I mean, smash brothers does not have a deep fighting system but is VERY fun in the end when you play it. It keeps you coming back to it with friends and creates many unique fights with a lot of tension that you just don't find MK anymore. IMO anyway. I also see the MK team just copying everything that is popular from fighters already out there. Multi tiered stages, DOA. Combo and NOW breakers, Killer Instinct and Tao Feng (cough, cough). Destructable environments, DOA. Weapon combat availability, Soul Calibur. And so on. Take the best of everyone elses games and put some blood in it and we'll call it MK. That's just not fair. To the other developers AND to the public. That's kinda like when you walk thru Blockbuster and see the movie Ghost Ship and right next to it, it's B-rated rip-off Ghost Rigg. LOL. It rediculous. IMO, the fighting in MK needs a theme. Tao Feng is a combo-intensive fighter. And focuses on that aspect. Killer Instinct is the same. Soul Calibur, Tekken, and VF are tech fighters. Stressing the technical aspects of a fight. Smash brothers focuses on the environment and the ring out aspect. When I play MKDA it just feels bland. Puches and kicks and a special move (that doesn't even animate with the...urg...(although lacking) fluidity of the rest of the game. MK to me was about the interesting and sometimes amazing combos pulled off with nothing but flashy special moves. The punching and kicking where just the in-between and setup moves. I think that if they went back to this formula, with todays technology, you would have some REALLY awesome looking fights with teleporting, lightning throws, fire and ice everywhere and some spears and invisiblility spells thrown in for good measure. THIS was the MK difference. I just hope that they include more of this in MKD. Again, only hoping the best, but like Versatile and the others, not expecting much.

All I have to say is: When this gets online and you cats keep getting schooled with one or two characters who can glitch the hell out of the game and you can do nothing about it except cry about the fighting system: Read this thread.

You can put all the characters in the world in, but how many will be used online? How many will be playable online? How many characters are playable in MKDA out of the whole roster? What characters from MKDA actually have a chance of winning matches against top tier characters? WTF is the point of putting in kabal if he's going to be owned time and time again online?

If cats want a MK game that deals with story ann characters make a MK novel and picture book. I want a fighter. A good one.

You know, I was thinking about the juggle system and something hit me. I'm thinking air control may be neccessary. Think of it this way. In Tekken, the juggles are designed to keep you in the air and you travel further away each hit to prevent infinites. This would never work in Soul Calibur. One launcher and you could just juggle the guy right out of the ring. Air control is a must for that game. I don't like MK:DA's juggle system and I don't want it to carry over to Deception but if they made it like Tekken's then if you're in the right spot, juggling a guy right into a death trap or off a cliff would be easy. Maybe there should be a command that acts as an air recover during a juggle and only after doing that air recover can you then have air control.

Very good point Tony

Let's hope the MK team thought of that one too.

I reall don't understand. If you all like the fighting style of SC, VF why don't play those games. MK is not these games (thank God for that). We all want MK to be more and more powerfull and not a mumbo jumbo clone of another fighting game. If they give all the movments of SC, VF and others they should rename MK/VF/SC/KOF/DOA Deception. We don't want this.
I think we all want an unique MK game with a engine without bugs, faster, a better combo system and other things. Why, if so bad MK is, these game sell more than the others?

I have the others too but i prefer each of each in their place. If it was all too equal the fun is no more.

We complaint this, we complain that. I think MK will be the worst game ever by your words. Bu you still buy it. I'll buy it for sure. And than i judge myself the game. NOT Before.

TonyTheTiger Wrote: You know, I was thinking about the juggle system and something hit me. I'm thinking air control may be neccessary. Think of it this way. In Tekken, the juggles are designed to keep you in the air and you travel further away each hit to prevent infinites. This would never work in Soul Calibur. One launcher and you could just juggle the guy right out of the ring. Air control is a must for that game. I don't like MK:DA's juggle system and I don't want it to carry over to Deception but if they made it like Tekken's then if you're in the right spot, juggling a guy right into a death trap or off a cliff would be easy. Maybe there should be a command that acts as an air recover during a juggle and only after doing that air recover can you then have air control.

On the first page there is a thread about the combo breakers to be implementing in the game. This was brought up. Can they be done in mid juggle in the air? In MKDA they reduced the damage in juggles to 0 after a while, but you right in terms of countering the juggles. Dead body juggles could be a problem. I would like to see a DOA type juggle system. That is more of a dead body weight type system. Of course they would have to PROPERLY test to make sure that inifintes and long range juggles cannot be done regardless of the juggle system implemtned.

I will say this much though: I am REALLY interested is seeing this game in action and seeing all the implemented features working togeather smoothly.

You make it sound like if MKD adopts some ideas and concepts from other games to make it better, it'll stop being MK and BE the game it borrowed ideas from. Tekken, VF, SC2, and DOA share several gameplay concepts, but is VF Soul Calibur? Is Tekken Dead or Alive?

They share these concepts because it's what 3D fighting games of todays standards usually require to be worth their salt. I don't see how MK adopting some of these features makes it the game it's adopting the feature from.

MKD is using the Position Change Maneuver from Tekken 4. That must mean MKD IS Tekken 4, based on your logic.

Some of you people want MKD to beat Soul Calibur, Tekken, and VF so badly. Well, that's never going to happen unless the MK Team gets with the program and adopts some basic concepts. Just imagine an MK which has weapon stances that make Soul Calibur look like crap. Imagine hand to hand styles in MK traunce VF, Tekken, and DOA.

Currently, such a thing is so laughable, I can barely type. But if MK expects to keep going, they'd better go with the flow and start tweaking.

Than again, I do realize that it hasn't been released yet; heaven knows what the fighting system is like...But the information released so far makes it sound like MKDA's fighting engine with new additions and faster speed. There's no sign of fine tuning the styles and tweaking them beyond sanity.

I guess we can only wait and see. But we might as well complain while we wait. The MK Team can read and realize what it is they could add to make the fighting system better, and they could read to realize what they don't want.

You people say you like MK for the storyline, fatalities, eccentric fighters, etc. That's fine and all. But what would dramatically improving the fighting system do to the storyline? What would it do to the characters? What would it do to the fatalities?

You already have your 2 fatalities. Most of the characters you bitched for are back. The storyline is still as colorful as ever. I don't see any kind of problems uberfying the system would bring.

You might as well go back to MK1 and 2 if you don't want changes to the system. Hell, go and sell your MK4s, MK Golds, and MKDAs. They all tried to include elements the majority of fighting games had at the time: sidestepping, 3D character models and backgrounds, weapon combat, etc.

Hypocritical bastards...
(Yes, I am pissed. Very)


Evas...The MKOnline Anime Authority...

SETI1 Wrote: I reall don't understand. If you all like the fighting style of SC, VF why don't play those games. MK is not these games (thank God for that). We all want MK to be more and more powerfull and not a mumbo jumbo clone of another fighting game. If they give all the movments of SC, VF and others they should rename MK/VF/SC/KOF/DOA Deception. We don't want this. I think we all want an unique MK game with a engine without bugs, faster, a better combo system and other things. Why, if so bad MK is, these game sell more than the others? I have the others too but i prefer each of each in their place. If it was all too equal the fun is no more. We complaint this, we complain that. I think MK will be the worst game ever by your words. Bu you still buy it. I'll buy it for sure. And than i judge myself the game. NOT Before.

I think the whole MKDA had little depth offends some people because they are in love with the game and I guess MKD when it isn't even out... I like MKDA, but MKD could be so much better, if it have 3 styles and the level of gameplay that DOA3 or higher, then it can be.. like I said before A GAMING EXPERIENCE... rather than a 'lets open coffins game... I had my own arguement about this in the MK5, MK6 arguement... I think if that goes on its going to get locked out...

I didn't mean to offend anyone. Just expressing my thoughts and an all-too-inevitable dissapointment. I DO in fact play those other games SETI. I DO NOT want MK to be just like them. That was my point. Will most fighters have borrowed ideas? Of course they will. There's only so much to fighting. But what MK still has that others do not is the (used to be) extensive special moves that all had their own in-combat properties. I.E. Sektor's uppercut was a laucher, Cyrax had air throws to finish off pop-up combos. Jax had multiple face jabs grabbing you out of the air for extra coolness, and so on. I just miss that part of it in the 3D series. I think that was their nitch and they should stick to it.

Starwinderbeta

I never read your posts becuase your font gives me a headache and I can't read any of it.

I'm sure you have something to say but I can't even read it without getting a migraine.

Psi Ops is almost done people!

WORDLIFE BANNANAS

I agree TonyTheTiger. I almost found myself TRYING to manuever in the air in MKDA just because of how long it felt that you floated in the air. Maybe they will make an air recovery. But the problem they will have if they decide to do that is in the current fighting system. Because the game does not count frames, like in SC or Tekken, then one could not EVER juggle someone if an air-break or air manuever was universally applied to the game. In SC, as I'm sure you and other players know, you CAN juggle them several times in the air with the right sequence of certain moves and timing. If you are sloppy with that timing, then you face juggle-free fights every time. But yes, ur right, air control by any means for the next MK is a good idea.

Agreed. Proper frame calculations are first and foremost. Nothing else, no matter how well designed, will work just right if the frames aren't calculated more efficiently.

Also, Ray, looking forward to Psi-Ops. When you're done, will you then be working on MK or are you juggling both projects?

I can play MK: DA just fine. I think it is a matter of getting use to the new kombat system. Sure MK: DA isn't the most conplex fighting game out, but at the same time one of the reasons I have liked MK over the years is that it is a pick up and play game. I don't mean MK games have been easy its system even with the 2-D and 3-D games have worked. The fighting system in all MK games at least to me is all about skill, and to get skill at any fighting game you must understand the fighting system, that is why when people first get a fighting game they lose to the AI because the fighting mechinics are so new to them. As for MK: DA I had a great time learning the kombat system. Took me a month and a few days, but once I got it I pretty much own it. As for MK6 which I have pre order already with its 50% new engine, I know things like Mk6 engine will take a little getting use to just like any other MK game. You must understand the fighting engine before you can bash it, well at least to me. laterzzz

You can't read my writing in that font, huh?

Well, too bad.

But I am without unsympathy. I'll change my previous posts to the default font, so you can read them...


Evas...The MKOnline Anime Authority...

rayrokka Wrote: Starwinderbeta I never read your posts becuase your font gives me a headache and I can't read any of it. I'm sure you have something to say but I can't even read it without getting a migraine. Psi Ops is almost done people! WORDLIFE BANNANAS

rayrokka Wrote: Psi Ops is almost done people! WORDLIFE BANNANAS

WEEEE! In all seriousness, I am really looking forward to that game. Slaming peeps around and owning shit for free, SWEET!!

Frost4584 Wrote: I can play MK: DA just fine. I think it is a matter of getting use to the new kombat system. Sure MK: DA isn't the most conplex fighting game out, but at the same time one of the reasons I have liked MK over the years is that it is a pick up and play game. I don't mean MK games have been easy its system even with the 2-D and 3-D games have worked. The fighting system in all MK games at least to me is all about skill, and to get skill at any fighting game you must understand the fighting system, that is why when people first get a fighting game they lose to the AI because the fighting mechinics are so new to them. As for MK: DA I had a great time learning the kombat system. Took me a month and a few days, but once I got it I pretty much own it. As for MK6 which I have pre order already with its 50% new engine, I know things like Mk6 engine will take a little getting use to just like any other MK game. You must understand the fighting engine before you can bash it, well at least to me. laterzzz

Man do I want to punch you in the face.

I didn't say they musn't take ideas of other fighting games. If they don't they're dumb. I am saying that they do not need to copy those fighting games. All fighting games have one thing in common, they all have pixels fighting pixels, but their own with their individual engine.

What i was trying to say is: Get ideas from others, yes. Living is just about that take it's not a copy. Copy things of others no.

People say if MK have core engine of bla bla, weapon mode of ble ble, etc, they are saying if we have this we have a perfect MK, So by that way MK didn't have his signature.

However. I am pleased they take ideas from other games and incorporate them in MK. But only ideas. I like to play VF and i don't like to see in VF fireballs, deathtraps or other things.

As i can see people are arguing about if MK as this from ..., as that from ..., and that form ... I don't see people saying MK should take the idea and make their OWN concept of the things.

We do not want a VC SC clone. We want a MK with ideas from VC SC etc. Getting the picture?

P.S: This is IMO one of the best threads opened in this forum. We see how good the game is just put our ideas and these contributes more to MK development. Very good thread Versitile.

I have quickly glanced at 4 or 5 pages, and I just want someone to answer these several questions real carefully.

I do have to admit im an MK fan.

But Im starting to loose faith, heres why

(answer the following questions if you can)

Why do some MK fans think that gameplay is not that important, and fatalities are so great?

Cant you see that it is all about the gameplay?

2) well I lost all my questions, but an elaborate answer is really appreciated.

Versatile Wrote: Frost4584 Wrote: I can play MK: DA just fine. I think it is a matter of getting use to the new kombat system. Sure MK: DA isn't the most conplex fighting game out, but at the same time one of the reasons I have liked MK over the years is that it is a pick up and play game. I don't mean MK games have been easy its system even with the 2-D and 3-D games have worked. The fighting system in all MK games at least to me is all about skill, and to get skill at any fighting game you must understand the fighting system, that is why when people first get a fighting game they lose to the AI because the fighting mechinics are so new to them. As for MK: DA I had a great time learning the kombat system. Took me a month and a few days, but once I got it I pretty much own it. As for MK6 which I have pre order already with its 50% new engine, I know things like Mk6 engine will take a little getting use to just like any other MK game. You must understand the fighting engine before you can bash it, well at least to me. laterzzz Man do I want to punch you in the face.

I hope you get skull points of threating me
wanting to attack people for there own opinion is a bit lame. You should want to punch yourself.

Frost4584 Wrote: Versatile Wrote: Frost4584 Wrote: I can play MK: DA just fine. I think it is a matter of getting use to the new kombat system. Sure MK: DA isn't the most conplex fighting game out, but at the same time one of the reasons I have liked MK over the years is that it is a pick up and play game. I don't mean MK games have been easy its system even with the 2-D and 3-D games have worked. The fighting system in all MK games at least to me is all about skill, and to get skill at any fighting game you must understand the fighting system, that is why when people first get a fighting game they lose to the AI because the fighting mechinics are so new to them. As for MK: DA I had a great time learning the kombat system. Took me a month and a few days, but once I got it I pretty much own it. As for MK6 which I have pre order already with its 50% new engine, I know things like Mk6 engine will take a little getting use to just like any other MK game. You must understand the fighting engine before you can bash it, well at least to me. laterzzz Man do I want to punch you in the face. I hope you get skull points of threating me wanting to attack people for there own opinion is a bit lame. You should want to punch yourself.

Man do I want to punch you in the face.

Man do I want some frosted flakes.

Didn't take long for this thread to degenerate did it? If any MK team member does end up reading this they'll end up confused by the end. "What happened here? People start with frame data and parries and now everbody wants to punch people in the face."