After reading some of these replies, I'd like to correct my first post I made here,, I said that every MK1 character was in the same boat as far as stale storylines go, I realize now that this is not true for Sub-Zero...He has actually come a long way and, his story has changed quite a bit over the past few games. So I stand corrected on that matter. However I do not change position on my opinion in that thread about how if the game could do without Kitana, Sonya, Kano, Liu, etc..the game could also do without Sub and Scorp. As stated in some of these replies..The MK series actually NEEDS none of these characters. It's mainly due to favortism that most of them are still around.

I'm sorry but having neither Scorpion or Sub-Zero in an MK game would be just plain stupid. And don't tell me MK would sell better. Are you kidding me? Remember MK3. Why do you think there was an Ultimate MK3/Trilgy? Because MK3 didn't have Scorpion and people were dissapointed that Sub-Zero didn't have his ninja costume so we got classic Sub-Zero to fill the void.
And like someone said already. MK doesn't have the great fun gameplay that makes you play regardless of story like say the Tekken's and Street fighters. One of MK's main staple is that it has one if not the best story's of any fighting game ever. So to take two if not the two most popular characters in MK and fighting games in general would be a huge mistake.
Make no mistake Midway is a business. And taking those two out would be a horrible business decision. Which is why they are and should be in every MK. Bottom line is way more people want Sub-Zero and Scorpion in a MK than those who want them out. So just accept the truth and MOVE ON!

What do you guys want?? I mean really, Sub-Zero and Scorpion have been "LEGENDS" since the first MK game. (*lol*, they've even existed since before the first MK started)
Why should they stay in the game? Hmm, here are a few reasons:
1.) Both of them are VERY powerful and have unique fighting skills.
2.) Scorpion has to finish his mission to stay out of further MK games.
3.) Scorpion is the favourite character of Ed Boon ;)
4.) Sub-Zero is the favourite among the MK fans
5.) Sub-Zero is gaining more popularity through every MK game. I mean, he's Grand Master; his role as the leader among the good guys is getting closer to reality day by day
6.) WHY ON EARTH SHOULD THEY NOT BE IN AN MK GAME?? ;)
(7.) I reapeat, their powers are UNIQUE and AWSOME!!!)
I say that they should stay in future MK games. (Sub-Zero, in fact, is the ONLY character that has been in EVERY MK game!!! He's so popular, that they even made a game that is based on him! I mean, woah!)

At first, I would definitely say that Sub and Scorp are like the Ken and Ryu of MK, and that's true, they are, and that they should never be taken out of an MK game. But I'm thinking that it's finally time to give Sub-Zero and possibly Scorpion a game off. Not at the same time though.
As much as Sub-Zero's storyline has evolved, he's gotten stale as a character, to me at least. Of course, he, and Scorpion have never gotten as stale as say, Jax and Sonya, but I think it's time to give Sub a game off, just to get the hardcore fans to want him again.
As for MK3 not being as good without Scorpion, that could be partially true. But I think that the reason why most game fans and industry people don't like MK3 as much as the previous two is because of the gameplay. It simply wasn't as good as the previous two games. They jocked Killer Instincts dial a combo system, and didn't even do it as well. Couple that with a run button that made for even cheaper AI (which wasn't great to begin with) and you had a single player mode that tended to piss people off. For me at least, MK3 was rather jarring at first. Same goes for my friends who were casual fans, as the dial a combo system sucked out almost all of the pick up and play ability from the MK series. I'm not completely dissing MK3. It had some stuff in it that I liked. But it wasn't even close to MK1 and 2 IMO.
Oh, and Az, the guy that made a suggestion for Scorps new storyline. That was money man!! Great ideas! Personally, I'd like to see him come back as Hanzo for a game. No longer a ninja, no longer a spector. But that's just me. Give Sub one game off, let people want him back again, and bring him back with a new look.

Sub-Zero has come a long way and he has one of the most interesting and evolving storylines in the series. As for Scorpion, he needs to have a change. There needs to be a lot more to his storyline.

PsychoFight Wrote: How many times does the game have to make it clear? Scorpion is convinced that the younger Sub-Zero is actually the older Sub-Zero and he still thinks that. His ending in MK2 never happened. MKDA says that Scorpion thought Sub-Zero killed his family ever since MKM: SZ and hasn't thought differently until the end of MK4. In MK3, he escaped to try to kill Sub-Zero again. Sub-Zero beat him up again, and Scorpion was sent back to the Netherealm. Scorpion NEVER found out that the young Sub-Zero wasn't the one that killed him. He thought they were one and the same and he still thinks that even after finding out the truth. We have yet to see any canon (maybe in Deception) that says anything about Scorpion's ending in MK2 being true, but so far it's like this: MKM: SZ - Scorpion is sent by Quan-Chi to get the Map of Elements. THere, he meets Sub-Zero who is also after the map. They fight, and SUb-Zero wins and kills him. His soul goes to the Netherealm where he is tortured like all souls, and he also finds out that while dead, his family was murdered. He is convinced it was Sub-Zero (in actuality, it was Quan-Chi, who murdered his family and the rest of his clan in return for Sub-Zero getting the map). Later on, he finds that Sub-Zero is captured and sent to Prison of Souls in his cell. There, he faces his murderer and they fight once more. Unfortunately, Sub-Zero defeats him once more and escapes the prison. Scorpion's vengeance would have to wait. MK1 - Scorpion has been fiending for revenge on Sub-Zero for the past 10 years. Finally, the Netherealm superiors (maybe Shinnok? who knows?) offer him a deal: he can go to Earthrealm and claim his vengeance on Sub-Zero but in return he must forget his family. Scorpion agrees and is allowed to surface to the Earth and he follows Sub-Zero onto a ship that goes to an island where the Mortal Kombat tournament is being held. Scorpion enters as it is the only way to face Sub-Zero, and he ends up facing him. This time, it is Scorpion who is victorious and he kills Sub-Zero, getting vengeance for his own murder (but not for his family's, unbeknownst to him). MK2 - A year later, Scorpion is still in the Netherealm, but he gets distressing news: Sub-Zero is still alive? The Netherealm allows him once more to climb back up and get his revenge. He follows the ninja to Outworld to compete in the second Mortal Kombat tournament. He soon faces Sub-Zero again, but this time he loses. Scorpion is forced back into the Netherealm. MK3 - Two years later, Shao Kahn's invasion is stretching across the realms and he has targeted the Netherealm. But Shinnok (maybe?) was prepared for this and he fought back and managed to destroy SHao Kahn's forces from taking the souls of his realm. Scorpion used the war to escape from the Netherealm to wander the Earthrealm freely. He once again targeted Sub-Zero, hungry as ever for his revenge, not knowing it's all in vain. Eventually, Scorpion found him and they fought, but Sub-Zero beat him back once more. Scorpion was forced back into the Netherealm. MK4 - two more years later, Shinnok and the Army of Darkness in the Netherealm were getting ready to take over the realms. Scorpion's old confidante Quan-Chi comes to him and asks for an ask: to join Shinnok. In return, Shinnok would grant Scorpion his life back. Scorpion agreed, but also used the opportunity to claim his revenge on Sub-Zero. Before he became human once more, he would eradicate the assassin once and for all! So, he joined SHinnok's army and eventually came face to face with Sub-Zero. THey fought, and this time it was Scorpion who emerged victorious! Before Scorpion could kill him, Sub-Zero told him that he didn't murder his family. Quan-Chi then appeared and told Scorpion it was he who had done it, and that he merely used Scorpion the whole time. He tried to send him back to the NEtherealm, but Scorpion went into a rage and dragged Quan-Chi back with him.... MKDA - For the past 5 years, Scorpion had been torturing Quan-Chi to no end. Continually administering to him beatings and beatings, with no end. However, Quan-Chi got two Oni (Moloch and Drahmin) to protect him from him. They managed to hold him back while Quan-Chi made his escape, but Scorpion ran after him and escaped from the NEtherealm through the portal that Quan-Chi opened with the amulet. He emerged in OUtworld, and began his search for Quan-Chi.... If Scorp's ending is true, he found his way into Shang Tsung's Fortress while looking for Quan-Chi and he found Moloch and Drahmin in there (who were looking to off Quan-Chi, and were now allied with Shang Tsung). He fought them both, and eventually they overpowered him and tossed him into the soulnado, where he suffered a second death... but then what's he doing in MKD? Who knows?

Sorry, but I'm with TemperaryUserName and I don't buy this for a second. This goes back to my belief that undoing past storylines is just fucking retarded.
Scorpion finding out the current Sub-Zero is not the same one that killed him is backed up by Scorpion AND Sub-Zero's MK2 endings, Scorpion's MK3 bio and enfding and we get no mention of Scorpion in Sub-Zero's bio or ending. And to say this all didn't happen because a vague line MK:DA's Konquest?
So you ask, if Scorpion knows it's the wrong Sub-Zero, why was he after him in MK4? You said yourself: in return for killing the original Sub-Zero, Scorpion had to forget about his family and clan. Fast forward to MK4. Shinnok and Quan Chi are about to invade Edenia and they want Scorpion as a soldier. In order to convince Scorpion to help, Quan Chi offers Scorpion his life back, and a chance to kill Sub-Zero. Scorpion says he protects the new Sub-Zero now, he has no grudge against him. So Quan Chi, being the helpful guy that he is, triggers the memory of Scorpion's family and clan. Scorpion's priority to avenge his family overrides his priority to protect Sub-Zero.
But why would Quan Chi care about Scorpion's grudge? One, he wants Scorpion as an ally. And two, Quan Chi hates the Sub-Zero family. He says it himself in Scorpion's MK4 ending which is confirmed to be true in MK:DA: "In order to defeat my nemisis Sub-Zero, I needed the power of a spectre." Quan Chi created Scorpion to be his ultimate fighter.
Another key thing is what exactly Scorpion is avenging. In MK1, Scorpion was after the original Sub-Zero to avange his OWN death. In MK4, he never mentions his own death. He only talks about avenging the death of his family and clan. Sub-Zero I killed Scorpion; but he beleved the Lin Kuei clan killed his family.
Now this makes much more sense to me than to say after almost ten years of believing it, Scorpion and Sub-Zero's MK2 endings never happened and Scorpion's MK3 bio was wrong.
I said it before I'll say it again: Undoing past storylines is idiotic and just flat out stupid. Johnny Cage died and he came back. That happened. Scorpion knows the current Sub-Zero isn't the one who killed him. That happened. The MK creators shouldn't undo them in a desperate attempt to keep the story going. They should build off of this and make new ones.

XiaohouDun wrote:
"I said it before I'll say it again: Undoing past storylines is idiotic and just flat out stupid. Johnny Cage died and he came back. That happened. Scorpion knows the current Sub-Zero isn't the one who killed him. That happened. The MK creators shouldn't undo them in a desperate attempt to keep the story going. They should build off of this and make new ones. "
Rock on, dude! I couldn't agree more. Once a plot point is established, they should live with it instead of being such blatant revisionists. It kills suspension of disbelief, which is so important to stories.

I completely agree!
Even though I think subzeroi is not as iverrated as scorpion is, they should sit out for the next game. Its almost stupid to say they are the main reason why the game sells so well.
I can perfectly do without any of them, if one has to go for at least anotehr game, let it be scorpion.
Great points on the story and death stuff btw. Maybe people will finally see its not only "B-list" characteres that have some lame stories that need improvement. Scorpions story has grown stale and too boring to be even considered as important in the game.

I want to first thank everyone for keeping this thread clean out of flame wars etc. AND I just realized how SUB-ZERO is NOT overrated at all. But still, he should be out for one game.

Dark_No0B Wrote: queve Wrote: Dark_No0B Wrote: Then why are you constantly having some sort of grudge against scorpion and subzero? It just seems like you cant get over the fact that they are returning and sonya isnt. This is like the 4th time i've seen you talk about scorpion, suprised that hes in MKD, and not understanding why he has a large fan base, or why his story is more liked when you think its nothing compared to others. Scorpions story is more evolving, and everyone loves the mere fact of how he seeks vengence against quan chi, taking long or not. And its not as much as I like to call them unique and original. Almost everybody (mostly scorpion and subzero fans) know that there the most original and unique. Raiden and baraka do have potential and orginality, and one can say there still not as original as scorpion and subzero are. Last i checked, scorpion and subzero are almost in every single MK game. Fans like these guys more than they do of baraka, sonya, and raiden. BTW, baraka is my all time favourite MK character, and i still know that hes not more original than scorpion or sub. Scorpion is not the first ninja in a video game, but that has nothing to do with this whole "overrated" discussion. There can be 2 scorpions in 2 different video games. 1 of them can be MUCH better and liked because of his story, moves, fatalities, and such. I already told you. You are WRONG. Listen to my words. Thats NOT why. Read my post. And NO, I'm sure I never said Im surprised about they being cause its obvious the reason they are in, and NO I never said I was surprised she was out and they were in. Then WHY did you make this thread, what was the point of it? And yes, i DO remember YOU making similar comments like this in different threads, if it makes you happy, i can try and find them for you. I did read your posts carefully to, i'm merely comparing scorpion and subzeros originality, and how much of a fan base they have. Thats why i'm telling you why there in.

NOW back to you; yes PLEASE!, post here EVERYTHING you just said I said. Post here the thread name and link of me saying:
“I'm very disappointed that Sonya is not in Deception and Sub-Zero and Scorpion being in the game”
“I can’t understand how Scorpion and Sub-Zero are still in the game”
“I have no idea why they have such a large fan base”
Yes please, that’s what you said I said, which I know is 100% false. I never used those words. What you saw me post was the exact same opinion I did in the main page of this thread. Were I state my disagreement and dislike of people who complain about old and stale stories when Scorpion is on the same boat, etc.
So far, you are the ONLY person that seems to have taken this as “personal”. And I'm very glad I did this thread and very glad to see people agree. And since you still have no idea what’s the point, I will tell you in the shortest way possible: People keep bashing and destroying characters who they claim, have stale and boring and lame stories but they don’t see that their scorpion is on the same boat, and since its fair for them to kill all those characters cause of that, get rid of scorpion, he is not perfect, and since I don’t have the time to explain everything now, I suggest you to read carefully my thread again.
Also, how the hell I'm I gonna make you understand it’s NOT about Sonya? I told you already I knew about her not being in the game months ago!!! I can even say who told me if the member here allows me to. AND if I DID this to get some of my ANGER out, then why didn’t I do it when I was really disappointed about it long ago??? Why did I do it know when I already got over it???? Really dude, stop trying to force me to say its all about Sonya when it has absolutely nothing to do with her.
I knew some people were going to use Sonya in order to attack me, sadly, it wont work, and it hasn’t, so anyone who thinks I'm just mad she is not here, please throw that thought to the garbage since I got over it months ago, if you don’t believe me, its not my problem, and if I can prove it, I will by saying what source told me this.
And please, remember to post links were I said exactly what you said I did like 4 times???? I would really like to see me saying:
“I'm very disappointed that Sonya is not in in Deception and Sub-Zero and Scorpion being in the game”
“I can’t understand how Scorpion and Sub-Zero are still in the game”
“I have no idea why they have such a large fan base”
Peace

queve Wrote: I just realized how SUB-ZERO is NOT overrated at all. But still, he should be out for one game.

Why?

Actually, what I ment by that was to say that he is not as overrated as Scorpion.
Why you ask? Simple: To give other characters a chance. Hasn’t he been in enough games already? A little time out wont hurt him, actually, it will do him good if he manages to return in his full potential.
He needs to sit out of one game.

queve Wrote: Actually, what I ment by that was to say that he is not as overrated as Scorpion. Why you ask? Simple: To give other characters a chance. Hasn’t he been in enough games already? A little time out wont hurt him, actually, it will do him good if he manages to return in his full potential. He needs to sit out of one game.

I think I'm ok with the idea,but ONLY for ONE game.And they both shouldn't be out at the same time.For example if Subby's gone,Scorpion should be in.If Scorpion's gone,Subby should be in.But in my opinion they are the best,coolest characters in the series.
Mabye they could work on Frost while Subby's gone.They should make her less of a rip off.I think the reason most people hated her was because she had a very similar costume to Subby and she had varations of Subby's old moves(Ground Freeze,Slide)
They should give her a more original look and some more unique moves.For example,she could throw shurikans made of ice or freeze opponents with ice breathe.

they need to stay out of another mk game?!.. dats just crazy talk...this is why mk3 failed...but anyway if u dont like em then just dont pick em..simple as dat....their not overrated to me... sure they have the same stories etc but i dont buy mk games for its story i buy mk games for the gameplay...n playin as scorp n sub r one of the coolest things in mk

Wow. I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinions but that one about Sub-Zero and Scorpion being overrated and that their absence wouldn't play a part in the sales of a new MK game is just BULLSHIT in MY opinion.
From Day 1 of MK. Sub-Zero and Scorpion have been there. And just about every single game outside of the side games (Mythologies, Forces) has had both of them in it.
Sub-Zero And Scorpion are HUGE! I remember way back in the days of MK 3 when There was no Scorpion. Half the people I knew HATED MK at that time. And that upset me. I never thought there would be such a negative outlash for a character to be not in one of the sequels but wow. There was. And you could feel it. No Scorpion in MK 3 was VERY weird. Now just imagine... both of them NOT in it. It would seem unplayable.
Scorpion and Sub-Zero are VERY important characters in the MK world. But they deserve it. MK 1 started with them and when I think of MK I think of one of the two.
I'm sure about 80% of you.. When you think of MK you think to either Scorpion or Sub-Zero.
HOWEVER...
While I think they are important characters... which they are. The MK Universe CAN survive without them.
Will the games be as popular?
No way.
Will the games still sell?
Yes. But not as well.
MK was built on these 2 ninjas. And without them the foundation starts to slowly crumble.
For me.. I will always be an MK fan. No matter what. Because as long as theres Blood and violence I'll be there. And I'll still buy the games.
Now if MK got rid of Fatalities. Fuck em!

I have a question.
What if they do take out Sub Zero and Scorpion and replace them with some other fighters.What if the new fighers sucked.I'm sure tons of people will be pissed that Scorpion and Subby were replaced with sucky characters.The forumns would be FLOODED with angry posts.I just think taking out Subby and Scorpion to big a risk.I hope they're in EVERY MK game from now on.

queve Wrote: I want to first thank everyone for keeping this thread clean out of flame wars etc. AND I just realized how SUB-ZERO is NOT overrated at all. But still, he should be out for one game. Dark_No0B Wrote: queve Wrote: Dark_No0B Wrote: Then why are you constantly having some sort of grudge against scorpion and subzero? It just seems like you cant get over the fact that they are returning and sonya isnt. This is like the 4th time i've seen you talk about scorpion, suprised that hes in MKD, and not understanding why he has a large fan base, or why his story is more liked when you think its nothing compared to others. Scorpions story is more evolving, and everyone loves the mere fact of how he seeks vengence against quan chi, taking long or not. And its not as much as I like to call them unique and original. Almost everybody (mostly scorpion and subzero fans) know that there the most original and unique. Raiden and baraka do have potential and orginality, and one can say there still not as original as scorpion and subzero are. Last i checked, scorpion and subzero are almost in every single MK game. Fans like these guys more than they do of baraka, sonya, and raiden. BTW, baraka is my all time favourite MK character, and i still know that hes not more original than scorpion or sub. Scorpion is not the first ninja in a video game, but that has nothing to do with this whole "overrated" discussion. There can be 2 scorpions in 2 different video games. 1 of them can be MUCH better and liked because of his story, moves, fatalities, and such. I already told you. You are WRONG. Listen to my words. Thats NOT why. Read my post. And NO, I'm sure I never said Im surprised about they being cause its obvious the reason they are in, and NO I never said I was surprised she was out and they were in. Then WHY did you make this thread, what was the point of it? And yes, i DO remember YOU making similar comments like this in different threads, if it makes you happy, i can try and find them for you. I did read your posts carefully to, i'm merely comparing scorpion and subzeros originality, and how much of a fan base they have. Thats why i'm telling you why there in. NOW back to you; yes PLEASE!, post here EVERYTHING you just said I said. Post here the thread name and link of me saying: “I'm very disappointed that Sonya is not in Deception and Sub-Zero and Scorpion being in the game” “I can’t understand how Scorpion and Sub-Zero are still in the game” “I have no idea why they have such a large fan base” Yes please, that’s what you said I said, which I know is 100% false. I never used those words. What you saw me post was the exact same opinion I did in the main page of this thread. Were I state my disagreement and dislike of people who complain about old and stale stories when Scorpion is on the same boat, etc. So far, you are the ONLY person that seems to have taken this as “personal”. And I'm very glad I did this thread and very glad to see people agree. And since you still have no idea what’s the point, I will tell you in the shortest way possible: People keep bashing and destroying characters who they claim, have stale and boring and lame stories but they don’t see that their scorpion is on the same boat, and since its fair for them to kill all those characters cause of that, get rid of scorpion, he is not perfect, and since I don’t have the time to explain everything now, I suggest you to read carefully my thread again. Also, how the hell I'm I gonna make you understand it’s NOT about Sonya? I told you already I knew about her not being in the game months ago!!! I can even say who told me if the member here allows me to. AND if I DID this to get some of my ANGER out, then why didn’t I do it when I was really disappointed about it long ago??? Why did I do it know when I already got over it???? Really dude, stop trying to force me to say its all about Sonya when it has absolutely nothing to do with her. I knew some people were going to use Sonya in order to attack me, sadly, it wont work, and it hasn’t, so anyone who thinks I'm just mad she is not here, please throw that thought to the garbage since I got over it months ago, if you don’t believe me, its not my problem, and if I can prove it, I will by saying what source told me this. And please, remember to post links were I said exactly what you said I did like 4 times???? I would really like to see me saying: “I'm very disappointed that Sonya is not in in Deception and Sub-Zero and Scorpion being in the game” “I can’t understand how Scorpion and Sub-Zero are still in the game” “I have no idea why they have such a large fan base” Peace

Its HOW you said it. Stop quoting me saying what you said, i will find those threads eventually. The threads topic wasnt about scorpion being overrated, but thats what the discussion turned into, and you made a few posts about not understanding how hes so popular and how people like him for his storyline. Unless i'm very STUPID, i can recall YOU making comments similar to that, not alot of threads, but a FEW in replies. And how can you know sonya wasnt going to be in MKD months ago? For the past while ago, you've been hoping for her return. As a matter a fact, it wasnt THAT long ago when you talked about scorpion, atleast not months ago.
Even if it isnt about sonya not being in MKD, YOUR problem is, you have some sort of "thing" against scorpion or subzero. Scorpion is NOT overrated, its just how many fans like him. He has a massive fan base and is one of the most popular MK characters of all time. Very ORIGINAL and has been with us since day 1. So whats wrong with you? And scorpion does have a bigger fan base than sonya, he is more popular than sonya and people like him more. Unlike sonya, he atleast KEEPS his moves. Hes not in MK just for money, wtf kind of bullshit is that? He's boons favourite, and plays an important role in MK, thats why hes in. And dont forget, hes one of the "originals".
I'm the only person to have taken this personal? No i'm not, and i didnt take it personal. I replied to this because it frustrates me when people like YOU dont understand why characters are in or have a bigger fan base, ETC. And that was your reason for making this thread? Because you think people keep bashing characters and making statements like there stories are stale and they should be destroyed? Thats there bussiness if they do. And you made a similar thread about bashing called something like "stop bitching" and another one.
I see this whole little scenerio now. You must think scorpions story is lame and stale, and thats your problem, not anybody elses. Get over it. Not everyone thinks scorpions story is lame and stale, and people dont even care for that. Regardless if its stale, he will be in MK for a very long time, and boon can change his story whenever he wants. Scorpion has been trying to get revenge on quan chi, big deal. You dont like it, ignore it, no need to make a thread about him being overrated, they arent. And who isnt perfect, scorpion? What point are you trying to get across? Ok, i'm not even going to bother. Just let me say that, not everyone is perfect, and that includes sonya.
You can say its not because of sonya all you want, but i will always think it is just because, and for my reasons. You just "realized" that subzero isnt overrated, is it because the other intelligent posters said that, or is it because everyone else thinks he isnt and your the only one who does? So maybe thats why you all of a sudden "realized" this and changed your mind. Hopefully you'll change your mind about scorpion. And yes, subzero isnt overrated, and he plays a huge role in MK. Scorpions story can stick the same, and he can still be an important wild card character.
Maybe scorpion and subzero should stay out of a game because sonya is huh? Wont happen buddy. They made that mistake in MK3 and it wont happen again. They can make sonya stay out because she isnt much important as scorpion and subzero are. If they cared about her so much they wouldve included her.
And, PLEASE, YOU do ME a FAVOR, and STOP telling me to read your thread OVER again. This is the second time you said that, and it ticks me off. Dont tell me to re-read your thread, because i already have. Jesus, it seems like you said that twice just to make yourself look more intelligent, and just to make yourself look like your the smart one. Chill. I red your thread carefully, and DO NOT tell me to again.

There was entirely way too much to read though all the pages, so I'm just gonna say what I think....
Scorp and Sub have gigantic fan-bases, It's factual. You take out something like that and people will talk, tell their friends and blah blah. Your favorites are in and you'll tell you friends, "It's a great game, buy it when it comes out." Obviously a "fan-boyish(or girlish)" opinion, but if your faves aren't in it, bam..."Nah, don't buy the next MK, doesn't look good to me." Midway just lost a possible hundred bucks there, depending on what people your telling this to.
Scorpion and Sub are like, say...Ken and Ryu. You take them out of Street Fighter, and it's not Street Fighter, It's people fighting, in what happens to be a street like area. You take out Scorp and Sub and it just ain't right. No "defined" reason, just like farting in an elevator or something...just ain't right.

-----------------------------------------
First
Queve, nothing against you man but everything points to you being mad sonya hasn't been announced but sub and scorpion were.
right down to the VERY biased title of the thread. I can recall many a thread where you pretty much only put down scorpion and sub.
The fact is Scorpion and Sub-zero have a huge fan base. But also both are major characters in the story now. And both can sell games just for their names alone. Scorpion needs to off Quan chi basically, and has been since he found out Quan to be the true murderer of his family and clan. Sub has used his strengths to form a new clan and be a major fighter for earth.
Scorpion has died once. Recall when he was killed any other time but from the older sub-zero. In endings scorpion merely returns to hell. He has been defeated before, that I'll give you.
When fan favorite characters are left out the fans let Boon know. That's what happened in mk3 with scorpion and sub. Fans wanted to play as a goro like character and they got Sheeva. Fans wanted ermac, smoke, baraka, ect. back and that's what happened in deception. Boon is giving the fans what they want and scorpion and sub-zero are always going to be fan favorites.
Not every MK fan comes here but any poll and any magazine poll isn't it obvious who the average MK fan finds as their favorites?
-----------------------------------------
To answer the thread
Cage, special forces (except jax), rain, and any cyber ninja.
I rather like how deception is going towards a darker serious tone.
The hollywood actor and cyver ninjas took way too much seriousness away.
Rain had some cool moves but not enough depth. Too much of a filler character.
Jax and Kenshi were bad ass but kenshi should have stayed on his own. And I only believe that because if Kenshi, Jax, sonya, Cyrax, want to return they're all gonna have the same story.
Just jax and sonya was all that was needed really. And even Sonya got old very quick. Sonya wasn't really needed for anything except evening the good vs. bad ratio.
Basically I want LESS GROUPS AND CLANS.

taking them out is stupid in every which way possible. unless they totally ditch the entire cast for a brand new cast, it's pointless. can you imagine how many death threats would be made if he wasn't in mk6? "li mei, nightwolf, and tanya are in, but no scorp?! WTF! DIE!!!". it would make no sense.
the fact is they are the franchise characters. every poll ever made has been a battle between the two in popularity with scorpion winning 100% of the time. i really don't see your argument about them sitting out. why? they can improve their stories without them sitting out. considering how rediculous mortal kombat's storyline is and has gotten, the storyline issue is moot. how many people play characters for storylines? maybe .02%. storylines are interesting and all, but come on. IT'S A FIGHTING GAME! all fighting games have generic storylines for that matter. speaking of which, isn't sonya going through the same repetitive problem you're cursing scorpion for?
"i sense a disturbance in the fo....outworld!"
"get black dragon!"
"get kano!"
i'm starting to think this thread isn't about you not liking scorpion or you thinking he's bad storyline wise. i think it's about scorpion being on the same level of repetitive as sonya and you being pissed he's returning and she's not. "it's not fair!".

Dark_No0B Wrote: queve Wrote: I want to first thank everyone for keeping this thread clean out of flame wars etc. AND I just realized how SUB-ZERO is NOT overrated at all. But still, he should be out for one game. Dark_No0B Wrote: queve Wrote: Dark_No0B Wrote: Then why are you constantly having some sort of grudge against scorpion and subzero? It just seems like you cant get over the fact that they are returning and sonya isnt. This is like the 4th time i've seen you talk about scorpion, suprised that hes in MKD, and not understanding why he has a large fan base, or why his story is more liked when you think its nothing compared to others. Scorpions story is more evolving, and everyone loves the mere fact of how he seeks vengence against quan chi, taking long or not. And its not as much as I like to call them unique and original. Almost everybody (mostly scorpion and subzero fans) know that there the most original and unique. Raiden and baraka do have potential and orginality, and one can say there still not as original as scorpion and subzero are. Last i checked, scorpion and subzero are almost in every single MK game. Fans like these guys more than they do of baraka, sonya, and raiden. BTW, baraka is my all time favourite MK character, and i still know that hes not more original than scorpion or sub. Scorpion is not the first ninja in a video game, but that has nothing to do with this whole "overrated" discussion. There can be 2 scorpions in 2 different video games. 1 of them can be MUCH better and liked because of his story, moves, fatalities, and such. I already told you. You are WRONG. Listen to my words. Thats NOT why. Read my post. And NO, I'm sure I never said Im surprised about they being cause its obvious the reason they are in, and NO I never said I was surprised she was out and they were in. Then WHY did you make this thread, what was the point of it? And yes, i DO remember YOU making similar comments like this in different threads, if it makes you happy, i can try and find them for you. I did read your posts carefully to, i'm merely comparing scorpion and subzeros originality, and how much of a fan base they have. Thats why i'm telling you why there in. NOW back to you; yes PLEASE!, post here EVERYTHING you just said I said. Post here the thread name and link of me saying: “I'm very disappointed that Sonya is not in Deception and Sub-Zero and Scorpion being in the game” “I can’t understand how Scorpion and Sub-Zero are still in the game” “I have no idea why they have such a large fan base” Yes please, that’s what you said I said, which I know is 100% false. I never used those words. What you saw me post was the exact same opinion I did in the main page of this thread. Were I state my disagreement and dislike of people who complain about old and stale stories when Scorpion is on the same boat, etc. So far, you are the ONLY person that seems to have taken this as “personal”. And I'm very glad I did this thread and very glad to see people agree. And since you still have no idea what’s the point, I will tell you in the shortest way possible: People keep bashing and destroying characters who they claim, have stale and boring and lame stories but they don’t see that their scorpion is on the same boat, and since its fair for them to kill all those characters cause of that, get rid of scorpion, he is not perfect, and since I don’t have the time to explain everything now, I suggest you to read carefully my thread again. Also, how the hell I'm I gonna make you understand it’s NOT about Sonya? I told you already I knew about her not being in the game months ago!!! I can even say who told me if the member here allows me to. AND if I DID this to get some of my ANGER out, then why didn’t I do it when I was really disappointed about it long ago??? Why did I do it know when I already got over it???? Really dude, stop trying to force me to say its all about Sonya when it has absolutely nothing to do with her. I knew some people were going to use Sonya in order to attack me, sadly, it wont work, and it hasn’t, so anyone who thinks I'm just mad she is not here, please throw that thought to the garbage since I got over it months ago, if you don’t believe me, its not my problem, and if I can prove it, I will by saying what source told me this. And please, remember to post links were I said exactly what you said I did like 4 times???? I would really like to see me saying: “I'm very disappointed that Sonya is not in in Deception and Sub-Zero and Scorpion being in the game” “I can’t understand how Scorpion and Sub-Zero are still in the game” “I have no idea why they have such a large fan base” Peace Its HOW you said it. Stop quoting me saying what you said, i will find those threads eventually. The threads topic wasnt about scorpion being overrated, but thats what the discussion turned into, and you made a few posts about not understanding how hes so popular and how people like him for his storyline. Unless i'm very STUPID, i can recall YOU making comments similar to that, not alot of threads, but a FEW in replies. And how can you know sonya wasnt going to be in MKD months ago? For the past while ago, you've been hoping for her return. As a matter a fact, it wasnt THAT long ago when you talked about scorpion, atleast not months ago. Even if it isnt about sonya not being in MKD, YOUR problem is, you have some sort of "thing" against scorpion or subzero. Scorpion is NOT overrated, its just how many fans like him. He has a massive fan base and is one of the most popular MK characters of all time. Very ORIGINAL and has been with us since day 1. So whats wrong with you? And scorpion does have a bigger fan base than sonya, he is more popular than sonya and people like him more. Unlike sonya, he atleast KEEPS his moves. Hes not in MK just for money, wtf kind of bullshit is that? He's boons favourite, and plays an important role in MK, thats why hes in. And dont forget, hes one of the "originals". I'm the only person to have taken this personal? No i'm not, and i didnt take it personal. I replied to this because it frustrates me when people like YOU dont understand why characters are in or have a bigger fan base, ETC. And that was your reason for making this thread? Because you think people keep bashing characters and making statements like there stories are stale and they should be destroyed? Thats there bussiness if they do. And you made a similar thread about bashing called something like "stop bitching" and another one. I see this whole little scenerio now. You must think scorpions story is lame and stale, and thats your problem, not anybody elses. Get over it. Not everyone thinks scorpions story is lame and stale, and people dont even care for that. Regardless if its stale, he will be in MK for a very long time, and boon can change his story whenever he wants. Scorpion has been trying to get revenge on quan chi, big deal. You dont like it, ignore it, no need to make a thread about him being overrated, they arent. And who isnt perfect, scorpion? What point are you trying to get across? Ok, i'm not even going to bother. Just let me say that, not everyone is perfect, and that includes sonya. You can say its not because of sonya all you want, but i will always think it is just because, and for my reasons. You just "realized" that subzero isnt overrated, is it because the other intelligent posters said that, or is it because everyone else thinks he isnt and your the only one who does? So maybe thats why you all of a sudden "realized" this and changed your mind. Hopefully you'll change your mind about scorpion. And yes, subzero isnt overrated, and he plays a huge role in MK. Scorpions story can stick the same, and he can still be an important wild card character. Maybe scorpion and subzero should stay out of a game because sonya is huh? Wont happen buddy. They made that mistake in MK3 and it wont happen again. They can make sonya stay out because she isnt much important as scorpion and subzero are. If they cared about her so much they wouldve included her. And, PLEASE, YOU do ME a FAVOR, and STOP telling me to read your thread OVER again. This is the second time you said that, and it ticks me off. Dont tell me to re-read your thread, because i already have. Jesus, it seems like you said that twice just to make yourself look more intelligent, and just to make yourself look like your the smart one. Chill. I red your thread carefully, and DO NOT tell me to again.

Hmmm, you really took this personal. It’s obvious; you are the only person who made a scandal about the situation and that didn’t reply with maturity.
I did not even bother to read your entire reply since it pretty much told me the same stubborn thing you have been saying over and over again.
How did I know Sonya was not in the game? Have you heard something I call sources? The fact that I still had/have hope she was/is in the game does not mean I don’t know for a fact she is not coming back. I can post that as many times I want. If you don’t believe me, it’s not my problem, and I don’t care.
You just keep saying the same things all over again, so I won’t bother to continue this discussion with you anymore. You pretty much missed the whole point of this thread, and dude, if the title says Scorpion is OVERRATED its clear what the thread is about. So yeah, that was one of the points of the discussion you shockingly missed. Oh, and you just keep saying that its all about Sonya, believe that if you want, I will no longer waste my time trying to explain to you as if you were a child. And when you find those posts were I clearly say the things you stated I said, post them.
As I said and as I can clearly see, I knew some people will use Sonya in order to attack sorry to disappoint you, but it has not worked nor it’s the reason. Get over it will you? And sorry but I can and will tell you more then twice to read my thread (again) since you have no idea about what’s really going on here.

cartmansp Wrote: queve Wrote: Actually, what I ment by that was to say that he is not as overrated as Scorpion. Why you ask? Simple: To give other characters a chance. Hasn’t he been in enough games already? A little time out wont hurt him, actually, it will do him good if he manages to return in his full potential. He needs to sit out of one game. I think I'm ok with the idea,but ONLY for ONE game.And they both shouldn't be out at the same time.For example if Subby's gone,Scorpion should be in.If Scorpion's gone,Subby should be in.But in my opinion they are the best,coolest characters in the series. Mabye they could work on Frost while Subby's gone.They should make her less of a rip off.I think the reason most people hated her was because she had a very similar costume to Subby and she had varations of Subby's old moves(Ground Freeze,Slide) They should give her a more original look and some more unique moves.For example,she could throw shurikans made of ice or freeze opponents with ice breathe.

I agree. . And to answer your question, they dont need to bring new characters. Characters like Rain, Reiko and other ignored ones can do great. Even new ones if they are well done.

First of all, Queve is fully aware of Scorpion and Sub-Zeros fan base!
Secondly, he knew perfectly well that Sonya wasn't going to be in MKD!
Thirdly, if you really believe he's bitching because she isn't in then you are mistaken. I could easily have done the same thing because I like her too. And my fave character, Raiden, isn't in the game either. So again, I could've made this thread too. And I assume you'd have thought I was bitching, but I wouldn't be.
The point is merely that with all the MKD news around, recently there has been more fans of Kitana and others surfacing. The Scorpion and Sub-Zero fans seem to be a minority all of a sudden. However, those that are around tend to attack other characters for their lame looks, stories etc and miss the point completely with Sub-Zero and Scorpion as they too have lame stories, in the opinion of others. Everyone has their own opinion, and surely there will be arguement about it. But it seems that the Sub-Zero and Scorpion fans do not like criticism against these two characters yet seem to believe that others should accept their critiscism on other peoples faves. And it is that, along with, maybe, their large fan base, that renders them overated in the eyes of others.
You take away Sub-Zeros freezing ability and you don't have much else left. With Scorpion, it's a case of him being badass and the whole spectre and spear thing that makes him so cool. Take those away and you have nothing. Yet other characters have had their sacrifices over the years. Raiden lost his Torpedo but is still popular. Shang lost his morph but is still popular. They have proven themselves to be great without them and the fans are happy. If those attributes of Sub and Scorps were removed, there'd be an uproar! The fans of those two wouldn't be happy.
Also, the fact that many seem to think that MK revolves around both Sub-Zero and Scorpion is rubbish. MK lived on after MK3 without Scorpion. It can do so without either of the two of them. This doesn't mean to say that should be scrapped completely. Again, there'd be uproar if that happened, although it would happen with many other characters, but the Scorpion and Sub-Zero fans would never be happy again it seems. It is just that some think that their stories are becoming repetitive, although Subs, unlike Scorpions is now looking better than ever. Sitting out a game isn't going to kill them or any of the fans now is it?
I don't mean to offend anyone with this post but I had to defend Queve and try and help put forward his point a little more.
Props to him for making this thread! It is not only him that thinks this! There are many others who do!

tgrant Wrote: First of all, Queve is fully aware of Scorpion and Sub-Zeros fan base! Secondly, he knew perfectly well that Sonya wasn't going to be in MKD! Thirdly, if you really believe he's bitching because she isn't in then you are mistaken. I could easily have done the same thing because I like her too. And my fave character, Raiden, isn't in the game either. So again, I could've made this thread too. And I assume you'd have thought I was bitching, but I wouldn't be. The point is merely that with all the MKD news around, recently there has been more fans of Kitana and others surfacing. The Scorpion and Sub-Zero fans seem to be a minority all of a sudden. However, those that are around tend to attack other characters for their lame looks, stories etc and miss the point completely with Sub-Zero and Scorpion as they too have lame stories, in the opinion of others. Everyone has their own opinion, and surely there will be arguement about it. But it seems that the Sub-Zero and Scorpion fans do not like criticism against these two characters yet seem to believe that others should accept their critiscism on other peoples faves. And it is that, along with, maybe, their large fan base, that renders them overated in the eyes of others. You take away Sub-Zeros freezing ability and you don't have much else left. With Scorpion, it's a case of him being badass and the whole spectre and spear thing that makes him so cool. Take those away and you have nothing. Yet other characters have had their sacrifices over the years. Raiden lost his Torpedo but is still popular. Shang lost his morph but is stil popular. They have proven themselves to be great without them and the fans are happy. If those attributes of Sub and Scorps were removed, there'd be an uproar! The fans of those two wouldn't be happy. Also, the fact that many seem to think that MK revolves around both Sub-Zero and Scorpion is rubbish. MK lived on after MK3 without Scorpion. It can do so without either of the two of them. This doesn't mean to say that should be scrapped completely. Again, there'd be uproar if that happened, although it would happen with many other characters, but the Scorpion and Sub-Zero fans would never be happy again it seems. It is just that some think that their stories are becoming repetitive, although Subs, unlike Scorpions is now looking better than ever. Sitting out a game isn't going to kill them or any of the fans now is it? I don't mean to offend anyone with this post but I had to defend Queve and try and help put forward his point a little more. Props to him for making this thread! It is not only him that thinks this! There are many others who do!

Very well said man! I agree 100% Sub and Scorp are great, but hardly NECESSARY. That fact is as said before NO MK character is necessary for the series to continue. The next game there could be one returning character and the rest all new if the MK team chose to do so. Everyone is expendable! Including Sonya, Sub, Scorp...and as we are about to see, Raiden. So killing off Raiden basically proves that no matter how relavent the characters are to the story, nor how popular they are....They could be gone with a snap of Boon's fingers. Period.

most diegard mk fans and thepeople on the board of this site would say yes. but u need them to attract new comers and people that havent played a mk game in a while. i am for and against them in the game but i dont make those descisons.

I can honestly say, without Scorpion I won't buy it. Call it whatever you want, but it is impossible for it to be the best game without him. IMO.