I love the sound of rightousness. PS2 rulz all systems. And damnstraight the control was awful on gamecube AND XBOX.

Good points Hideo, but Midway's problem is that every time they find a way to make money they also find a way to lose it. They could also take the approach that other developers take to money: it ain't everything. Developers of all sorts have freely made games exclusive to the Xbox and/or GC knowing full well they could sell more copies if they ported it to the other consoles.

Also, if MK: DA was made exclusive to the Xbox (let's just suppose), it would've undoubtedly sold more copies than it did on the Xbox, though I'm not sure just how many more. For whatever reason, exclusive games sell more units on the system it's made exclusive to. This could be because people only have one version to buy, instead of a choice of 3, and it winning favor with devout fans of a particular system.

Third, I'm not so sure those sales figures are 100% correct. MK: DA has sold 2+ million copies, yet if it sold 1.1 million on the PS2, 400,000 on the Xbox, and 200,000 on the GC, that's only 1.7 million. Where's the rest? I don't think the GBA version sold 300,000...in fact, I don't think it broke 100,000...

I personally like gamecube alot more than ps2, simply because i'm a huge nintendo fan and i've been for years, since the first nintendo system was out. I still love ps2 alot like theres no tommorow though. The controls on ps2 and gamecube r0x0rz.

I just dont like xbox because i've seen so much bad things happen with it, and my friends all say they've had alot of problems with it. I dont like the controller at all either. ewww, it disgusts me.

I am a MK fan since the first hour. And I will stay as long as it will be available vor the playstation. I will never buy a shitbox. fuckin expensive, fucked up controller, no games to play worth. But I will shove a xbox up bills arse if he will make it shitbox exclusive.

This is turning into an irrational juvenile (if that) fanboyish flame-a-thon console war type-thing. Still, no one will elaborate on what the big deal with the Xbox controller is. Maybe people don't dig functional layouts or ergonomics...someone enlighten me.

foahchon - Those are the North American numbers (US and Canada). Deadly Alliance sold about 1.7 million (little more actually) here in the US/Canada.

Deadly Alliance didn't break 2 million sales until after the European release, so roughly 800,000 or so came from across Europe. That's why I said when your bread and butter is the US market, which is where Deadly Alliance was most successful, than to exclude the biggest money-making machine, ie the PlayStation 2, isn't the best thing to do. The PlayStation 2 version of Deadly Alliance outsold the Xbox, Game Cube, and Game Boy Advance versions combined in the US (which was 1.1 million for the PS2 version). Since the game went on to sell 2.6 million copies, almost HALF of the entire game's sales came from the US PlayStation 2 version...

I'm willing to bet the bulk of the European sales came from the PlayStation 2 as well. When all is said and done, I wouldn't be surprised if as much as 1.5 million of the game's 2.6 million came from Sony's PlayStation 2.

to everyone that keeps saying "it will lose money it won't sell as good", please think. doa3 sold over 1.5 million on the xbox and nearing 2 million. mk could EASILY do that aswell. plus a lot of the sales that go to ps2 is because many people who own a xbox, also own a ps2. and since most like the ps2's controller, they buy the ps2 version. if it wasn't on the ps2, they'd have to buy the xbox version. boosting sales x10. if doa3 was also on ps2, i'm sure the ps2 version would sell more and the xbox version would be at about the same place mkda is for the xbox. now i'm rambling and forgetting what i'm even typing. but mk would easily sell 1 million each time out on the xbox. which is a very good number. and more importantly, midway wouldn't have to worry about rushing out crappy products to keep their company from going bankrupt.

Da_Hustler Wrote: I am a MK fan since the first hour. And I will stay as long as it will be available vor the playstation. I will never buy a shitbox. fuckin expensive, fucked up controller, no games to play worth. But I will shove a xbox up bills arse if he will make it shitbox exclusive.

i encourage that kind of behavior. it gets trolls like that banned and puts a smile on my face.

I dunno. I personally dont see alot of people rushing to get a xbox just for mk6. I'm just glad with my ps2 and cube, hopefully it'll come out for these to.

Like I said, the biggest benifit from selling to Microsoft is that Microsoft could help fund the development of future titles, promotional fees (such as TV spots and magazine advertisements), and let Midway get buy without paying a licensing fee for developing for the Xbox (why would they if they're owned by Microsoft? I mean why would Mircosoft charge themselves to develop for their own machine?).

That's the potential plus. However, the MAJOR minus is the installed user-base of the system. The PlayStation 2 recently broke 25 million users in the US. The US (well, North America would be more accurate, as Canada and Mexico contribute to the 'US' figure - well, at least Canada, not sure about Mexico :p) is where Deadly Alliance reigns supreme. 1.7 million of the game's 2.6 million were sold were in the US. So 65% of the Mortal Kombat fanbase comes from the US.

Let's compare the totals here: PlayStation 2 is at 25 million in the US; the Xbox is at 8 million in the US. There's three times as many PlayStation 2 owners as Xbox owners.

So if you limit a game like Mortal Kombat, whose most popular territory is the US, to a system that as 1/3 the user base (the Xbox) as the most system in the US (the PS2), then you're going to lose sales. There's no ifs, ands, or buts.

Let me put it this way - if Deception is released exclusively on the Xbox, I doubt it will sell one million copies. If a game barely breaks one million (1.1 million to be exact) on a system with a user-base of 25 million, I find it rather unlikely that the same game would break one million on a system with a user-base of 8 million.

It's just simple mathmatics. The PlayStation 2 *IS* where most third-parties make their money. According to NPD data, an estimated 70% of third-party sales come from the PlayStation 2. That leaves the remaining 30% for the Game Cube and Xbox combined.

I'm not trying to be a fanboy, because I own all three systems, eventhough I like my PlayStation 2 the best (mainly because of RPGs, although Xbox's Knights of the Old Republic is easily the best role-playing game I've played in years), but cutting out the PlayStation 2 and you're cutting out the most dominant machine on the market. Sony has well over half the market to themselves for crying out loud.

You just have to ask yourself: is it better to have someone like Microsoft back you fiancially and sell less games (since there's no PS2/GCN development) to make a profit (since Microsoft, not Midway, paid for the game, thus Midway can afford to sell less copies), or develop your games without outside assistance and potentially sale as many as three or four times the amount of games to make your profit (since you paid for the games yourself, you have to sell more copies to break even)?

Either way works, honestly. It's just that one way is more short-term (selling to Microsoft) and the other is more long-term (staying a third party and milking as big a user-base as you can) in terms recovering.

With all that being said, I'd die a little on the inside, but I'll 'retire' the Game Cube into the living room apartment and move the Xbox into my room should Midway sell. ;)

that's obvious logic. but if that was the case, every game should be on ps2 because of the installed userbase. but that really means jack shit when a fighter like doa3 can prove it can be a multi million seller in basically two territories (much like mk). japan and the xbox are a joke. much like mk and japan are a joke.
besides, midway keeps LOSING money no matter how many units mortal kombat sells for what platform. that alone proves the installed userbase and how many units it sells means absolutely nothing. midway is going down and unless you want them bankrupt, you'd welcome them to a financial powerhouse like microsoft. do people really want midway to go bankrupt just to have one game on their favorite console? that's pretty sad if you do. i could care less who buys them. just so long as they're financially secure and keep making games. anything else is just fanboyism. "i don't care if midway goes bankrupt! i'm just a greedy fuck who wants mk on my favorite fanboyistic system! *skip 2 years* man i wish mortal kombat was still being made by ed boon and them. these acclaim versions suck. oh well. atleast i got mk6 on my ps2 blahahahaha i win!!!"
*imagines midway going bankrupt and acclaim buying up the mortal kombat franchise again for $2* *shudders*

@MENTHOL

sry I just wanted to make my personel opinion clear :) I was overwhelmed by my emotions so I excuse for my rough language

MENTHOL Wrote: doa3 sold over 1.5 million on the xbox and nearing 2 million.

But at the same time, Dead or Alive 2 Hardcore on the PlayStation 2 sold more copies world-wide than Dead or Alive 3 sold on the Xbox, although not by much (only a few hundred thousand). At least that was the case about a year ago, whenever Tecmo announced world-wide sales of their DoA series. I'd have to try to dig it up to find out exactly when, but I don't really care. :)

The only thing was that DoA 3 was hyped to be one of the key Xbox titles, so obviously Microsoft and Tecmo were going to brag about sales. DoA 2 HC, for the PS2, was a huge hit as well, but Sony didn't promote the game the way Microsoft promoted DoA 3, so no one really knew/cared.

And it's true that a lot of people own both a PlayStation 2 and an Xbox, so some of the people that bought the PS2 version of DA could also buy the Xbox version of Deception. On the other hand, there's been 17 million more PS2s sold in the US than Xboxes, and I'm willing to bet that most of DA's 1.1 million PS2 sales came from the 17 million PS2-only owners than the possible 8 million PS2 and Xbox owners.

There's no way to spin it, if you ditch the PS2, you ditch the dominant, most widely played, and by FAR the most widely successful system on the market. That's not saying you can't have a hit on the one of the other consoles, but you're missing out on huge potential. Hell, remember Activison's Spider-Man the movie game two years back? Most people would agree that the PlayStation 2 version was pretty horrid, especially compared to the Game Cube and Xbox installments. Despite that Spider-Man went on to sell over one million copies on the PlayStation 2, more than what the Xbox and Game Cube versions sold combined. Nevermind the PlayStation 2's versions long load times or bad graphics (in comparison), it still was vastly more successful and the only version to top a million sales, just like Deadly Alliance.

The most basic way of saying it is that the PS2 is the casual gamer's console. Almost anyone interested in playing video games has a PS2. The Xbox, although successful in its own right, just doesn't have the main stream acceptance that the PS2 has. It comes down to selling less games with Microsoft aiding the bill, or selling way more games with Midway paying the bill.

If Midway absolutely had to sell, it would honestly be in their best interests to sell to Sony (eventhough I doubt Sony has any interest in buying Midway, but still), simply because the PS2 is the second most successful console of all-time, right behind the PS One. The Xbox isn't even in the top five most successful systems (the Genesis, the NES, the SNES, the N64, and both PlayStations outsold the Xbox). Sure the Xbox is a hit, but like Sony's themselves stated (albeit extremely arrograntly :p) "Who's on second?"

dude, everybody knows about the ps2 and it's userbase. but this is REALITY that midway is going down and someone has to snatch them up. nintendo and sony won't. in a perfect world, yes, midway will continue to make games for all consoles. they could sell 3 million units of mk deception on ps2 and would still be going under. that's what we're discussing here. not how many units they can move on certain systems. we're talking midway the company here. not just mortal kombat. everyone knows it will sell more on the ps2. but in the end does that even matter at all when midway the company is falling harder than a fat chick? no. you think it's wiser for them to keep making games for the ps2 yet all they keep doing is going under. i just don't see the logic. midway the company will be financially secure with microsoft. that's the only thing that matters. they'd be a success on the xbox and will make money for once. just because they won't sell 10 billion copies of mortal kombat anymore doesn't mean the series won't be a success. and by that logic, i'll just call every company who makes a fighter on the ps2 exclusively an idiot. because by golly, they could sell on other systems too! namco, you idiots! making tekken all exclusive when you know you could sell half a million on xbox and a quarter of a million on gamecube. lordy how stupid of you.

(really should of used paragraphs there)

bottom line is this. tekken sells well on ps2 alone. doa sells well on xbox alone. mk will sell well on xbox alone. there's no denying it. and in the end, midway wins. fanboys lose but who really cares? not i.

Well, I'm not trying to put a spin on sales on and by themselves, personally. Midway would undoubtedly earn more revenue selling their game on the PS2, but frankly I think Midway would better-retain or re-invest their earned revenue if they were bought by Microsoft, that's all I'm saying. Especially if Microsoft counseled them on spending a little and/or "adjusted" Midway's top-level management.

In the end, Midway would produce better games, and Midway wouldn't find itself fast-approaching bankruptcy all the time, even after having (at least) decent success. That's all I'm concerned about.

Midway losing money has less to do with Mortal Kombat's sales and more to do with the fact that none of their other games sale.

Midway had a horrible year in which many high profile games, like Dr. Muto or whatever, bombed and bombed hard. Midway's problem isn't that they need to sell more Mortal Kombat games, it's that they need to sell more of their other games.

Besides, Mortal Kombat has fallen from grace in a lot of ways. The Super NES and Genesis sales of Mortal Kombat I, II, and III far eclipsed the sales of Deadly Alliance. Mortal Kombat isn't the powerhouse it once was. The SNES and Genesis versions of MK I sold almost 8 million copies, and more than 800,000 of those were from Europe. Deadly Alliance sold 2.6 million, almost a third, and didn't even break one million in Europe. Given the *HUGE* installed base advantage of the PS2 over the Xbox in Europe (which is even larger than the installed base advantage of the PS2 over the Xbox here in the US) and the fact that Deadly Alliance didn't even sell a million copies across Europe, I doubt Deception would do half as well as Deadly Alliance in Europe if it was Xbox-only.

Although DA was the 'rebirth' of MK, it in one way, shape, or form mimicked the success of the SNES/Genesis era. Sure it outsold MK 4, which was a million seller in its own right, but I don't think Mortal Kombat has the ability to sell systems anymore. If it was released only on the Xbox, over half of the North American and European gamers that experienced Deadly Alliance would probably skip Deception.

As for Dead or Alive 3, it's probably worth mentioning that Dead or Alive was at its height of popularity at the time. Dead or Alive 2 pulled some decent sales from the Dreamcast while the PlayStation 2 version (Dead or Alive 2 Hardcore) went on to sell 1.6 million world-wide. Microsoft really helped push Dead or Alive 3, which was hot of the heels of Dead or Alive 2 (which itself was a much bigger hit than expected). Dead or Alive also benifited from being on the only Xbox launch titles worth owning. When people first bought their Xbox in 2001/2002, they were pretty much limited to Halo, Dead or Alive 3, and Project Gotham Racing. They just bought a new system and wanted a game to play. I'd like it to the PlayStation and Crash Bandicoot. Crash Bandicoot wasn't exactly the greatest game ever, but it managed to sell two million copies because there wasn't much else worthwhile the PS One had to offer in 1996 (I'm not implying that DoA 3 is bad or anything, so don't get that impression). The same holds true with DoA 3. People picked up an Xbox early on when the pickings were slim. Had Dead or Alive 3 been released in 2003 or 2004, now that the Xbox had a pretty decent library, would it have still sold as many copies? I don't think so.

Final Fantasy VII was released when the PlayStation was really picking up steam and it sold 9.2 million copies. Three years later in 2000 the PlayStation was the undisputed king of the ring and Final Fantasy IX sold just over 5 million. My point? Final Fantasy VII sold a lot because during its release it was one of the few PS One games worth owning. By the time Final Fantasy IX came out, the PS One was loaded to the trim with worthwhile software. A lot of people that picked-up FF VII did so because there was nothing else to play. By 2000 a lot of those people found themselves playing Metal Gear Solid or Gran Turismo, for example. They didn't have the need to pick-up FF IX just to have something decent to play. On the same token, have you seen Project Gotham Racing 2's figures? The game was a total dud at retail. The original, which was an Xbox RELEASE game, which means it came out when the system came out, sold over one million copies. Its sequel, released two years later when the Xbox was 7-8 million-ish in the US didn't sell a third as well as the oringal, which was released when the Xbox was at the 0 mark. A lot of PGR 1's success was due to the fact that it was a decent enough game to play, one of the few ones at that, for all those new Xbox owners. Two years later and the Xbox is over-flowing with popular titles and no one paid PGR 2 any notice...

That's just one other way to look at it. I'm not really going to argue any more just for the sake of it. :) Whatever happens happens. I just don't think it's in Midway's best interest to limit their potential growth for the future by selling to create a quick fix for the present. That's just my opinion.

But hey, to each his own.

Yeah, even if MK:DA sold 3 million on the PS2 alone Midway would probably still be in trouble.

Why? Because outside Mortal Kombat, no one buys Midway games. Mortal Kombat's sales isn't the problem. The problem is all of Midway's games' sales outside of Mortal Kombat.

To Midway's credit, The Suffering and PSI Ops are steps in the right direction. With the right marketing, both games could become hit titles and possibly turn into franchises of their own. Right now Midway has Mortal Kombat and that's it.

As for Tekken 4, sure it was a hit on the PlayStation 2, but it was a disappointment when compared to Tekken 2, 3, and even Tag in terms of sales. The same with Mortal Kombat 4. Sure MK 4 sold a million copies in the US, but it sold JUST a million copies in the US. MK 1-3 trashed it in sales. Deadly Alliance, while it did outsell MK 4 (it hit 1.7 million-ish here), it sill didn't draw in MK 1-3 numbers, showing that the series still is passed its prime in many ways. That's gotta be a blow to Midway, as their only wildly successful franchise is still a shadow of its former self. Back in 1995 buying Mortal Kombat would have been like buying Grand Theft Auto today. Not so anymore. Then again, I'm sure in 2010 or so Grand Theft Auto would be lucky to sell 2.5 million games.
[edit] Yeah, this is what happens when you work swing shifts (3pm to midnight) and you can't sleep... you stay up til 5 in the morning posting on video game boards. :)

Man there sure are a lot of PS2 fanboys around here. You know what my main problem is with PS2 fanboys? They act like Sony's sh*t don't stink. They've have done just as many (if not more) questionable acts as Microsoft has, or even Nintendo for that matter. I guess there's no such thing as an unbiased opinion anymore.

takuguy Wrote: Man there sure are a lot of PS2 fanboys around here. You know what my main problem is with PS2 fanboys? They act like Sony's sh*t don't stink.

Eh, that's just fanboys in general. When the day is said and done, no one is innocent.

But I wonder... remember back in 1995/1996 when Sony bought exclusive rights for Mortal Kombat 3 for a couple of months (either 3 months or 6 months, I can't remember), so the Genesis and Super NES had to wait for the game and all the Genesis/SNES fans wined about Sony. A decade later Microsoft is trying to do the same thing and all the Sony fans are wining about Microsoft.

It has come full circle. :p

*Ties boat ancher to this thread*

Come on guys there are a lot more importanant things going on in Mortal Kombat to keep posting in this thread.
Here is the point: If MS bought Midway tommorow they would not cancel development of MKD for PS2 (they would not sell any games that way) and they might develop the next MK for MS only but that game won't come until the next gen systems. But MS might just keep making them for PS2.
Midway might not make a game for GC. Life sucks, get over it!!!!!

Meh.. PS2 is not only the sequel to a system that was revolutionary - for it's time.. when it came out.. as the PS2 came out on perfect timing and had a ton of backing from the PS.

It's not hard to see why PS2 is on top.. it's also not hard for that same reason to see why there are a majority of PS2 supporters..

But more emphasis goes to the fact that the Xbox.. it being Microsofts first attempt at the console genre going against a rookie/veteran/Eminem PS2 if you will.. lol.

I love all games and systems of any kind..

If MS bought Midway tommorow they would not cancel development of MKD for PS2

Um...no they wouldn't. Man that's like saying when Microsoft bought Bungie, that they would still be porting Halo to all systems (with downgrades obviously). It just doesn't work like that. They aren't worried about how many copies the game will sell, they want to sell consoles. And the only way they can sell consoles is by keeping their games exclusive to their console. Who would want to buy an Xbox if Microsoft also released MKD on every other console?

takuguy Wrote: Um...no they wouldn't. Man that's like saying when Microsoft bought Bungie, that they would still be porting Halo to all systems (with downgrades obviously). It just doesn't work like that. They aren't worried about how many copies the game will sell, they want to sell consoles. And the only way they can sell consoles is by keeping their games exclusive to their console. Who would want to buy an Xbox if Microsoft also released MKD on every other console?

Pretty much right on the mark. It's a war between consoles and, as the saying goes, all's fair in love and war.

Sure it sucks that Resident Evil went exclusive to the Game Cube, or that Microsoft bought-out Bungie, or that Sony pays for exclusive periods of Grand Theft Auto, but when all's said and done they need games that you can ONLY find on the Game Cube/Xbox/PlayStation 2 to encourage sales.

Like someone else said, sure it sucks, but what are you going to do? When it comes down to it, companies' main concern is pleasing their board members, not their fans. Sure making fans happy is nice, but it all comes down to money. Profit.

That's the way it's been since the NES, back when Nintendo tried to force third-parties into exclusive contracts. Luckily the Genesis took after shortly after that and gave third-parties an alternative to Nintendo at the time. Same thing now, only to a lesser degree. Anyway, this isn't the first time this rumor has come up. Deadly Alliance was originally confirmed for the Xbox back in 2002, which lead to rumors that Microsoft was going to buy Midway. Sometime last year the rumor came up again and now he have it again in 2004. And if it turns out to be false again, I wouldn't be surprised to hear about it in 2005 and 2006.

You really don't know MS do you? MS bought the company who makes Virtual PC (known for Mac products more but sells nearly as many Windows versions) and made the product for Mac better. Don't tell me about what MS will do. This thread is stupid. And your wrong MS does not want consoles to sell. They want to sell licenses and fees. MS makes shit on the Xbox.

takuguy Wrote: If MS bought Midway tommorow they would not cancel development of MKD for PS2 Um...no they wouldn't. Man that's like saying when Microsoft bought Bungie, that they would still be porting Halo to all systems (with downgrades obviously). It just doesn't work like that. They aren't worried about how many copies the game will sell, they want to sell consoles. And the only way they can sell consoles is by keeping their games exclusive to their console. Who would want to buy an Xbox if Microsoft also released MKD on every other console?

After reading all this crap I really dont care if Midway sells. I guees ill have to get used to the bulky controller. Whatever.