Haha, for sure.
Dude, MKFL, frankly no one gives a shit if you like the game or not. That's besides the point. The point is that people like you admit, after debate, there are things wrong, yet side step that shit and don't give reasons. Reasons why you do or don't like it.. Then, when people do give reasons you're like "wtf, who cares, I still have fun."
Again, you say there are problems, but get in a tizzy when peeps talk about them. Stating that the reality of the problems do not matter, simply because you have an oppinion. That doesn't cut it. Oppinion doesn't void infinates. Oppinion doesn't make a game not suck balls. Voicing out with great concern does, however, get the developer to at least take in and anylize the current situation.
That's what we are trying to accomplish. We want Midway and co to see that the product they are pushing out is trash. When people like you, though, act like nothing is wrong and get in a hissy when people say there is something wrong...well, that's counter productive.
I didn't go to art shool to have people tell me how pretty my drawings were or how tight and clean my camera work and modeling is. I went there to have a people say, "this sucks, this is what needs to be fixed and this is why." It's the same thing here. MK needs to be fixed. People are willing to put in the time to say why. People are willing to devote vasts amounts of time to give insight, pushing forward the possibility of a better product.
If one sits around on their ass acting like nothing is wrong while hidding in their fantasty world, whch is based off "oppinion" then no one wins. We continue to get crap, we contue to get an under-acheiveing experience, etc. That's the point. We are trying to say why it needs to be fixed. It has nothing to do with "abandoning" anything. It has nothing to do with "gaduating from tekken university." It has to do with letting the world know that there is a problem with the franchise. It's that simple.
My figure construction instructor didn't say, "wow, nice line quality." He said, "wow, that perspective is pretty shitty. This is how to fix it, btw." Well, I learned. It was fixed - to a point . That's what needs to be done with MK. If you are counter productive to achieving that goal, by stating irrelevant oppinoin and acting like every thing is just dandy, then there is a problem. Rather, the current problem doesn't get fixed. That problem pisses a lot of us off.

Not again! Good work at explaining why MKFLegend is contributing to Mk's decline... But, yet again; that's not what the thread is about...
Improvement suggestions, anyone?

The funniest part about this all is that people wonder why MKD won't make Evo. LMAO! Every game is up against MKD for the extra spot for EVO is more worthy.
Anyway...let's all post our "dream edits" for our favorite MK character. Here's mine for Sub.
1. Clone up close back. If Smoke can do it Sub should be able as well. I already have the best Sub. If I could clone up close I'd be ranked in the top 20 guaranteed.
2. Cancels being implimented would make Sub a mental monster. I think he should be a cancelable specialist. The Ice Shaker being able to be canceled would be disgusting. d,b+2~block. They stay standing because their reaction sucks..d,b+2~block again to make them scared then throw mix up(the throws have different breaks so you can get ouf of each attempt). Cancelable freeze would be sweet as hell. Just played LMF and I did a freeze and he did li mei's nova blast. In MK7 perhaps besides trading projectile blows(which Sub is the best at in the game) he could cancel the freez, side step the nova blast, walk up and punish. Cancelable slide would be broken as hell, so I won't say I would want..lol. As for the clone..canceling that wouldn't really help.
3. Sub should have delayable shit like Astaroth. My vision of MK7 Sub is basically pure deception(no pun intended) and trickery. The whole master of ice and stuff just makes me think of him as a sly, quick and cunning fighter. Beating you through mind games. Anyway, if there is a parrying system, someone can see Sub's Tundra Smash throw(f,f+1+2. he swings his Kori blade upperward sending you in the air and smashing it downwards, nailing you into the ground for some wake up) and try to parry it, but you hold the 1+2, making Sub wait longer for his Arms to fully extend, raping their parry. Delayable freeze would make him charge it up like Goku's Kamehameha wave. Once fully charged you can continue to hold it for as long as u want. If it's charged all the way it cannot be ducked or blocked for that matter only stepped. similair to Ryu's SA3 in 3rd Strike. The freeze would also do a tiny bit of damage if fully charged. The weak point to this would be that Sub can't do any specials that involve ice for 10 seconds. His pokes and power moves should also be both delayable and cancelable.
4. Sub's counter hit game should be near non existant since his delaying and canceling could lead to some pretty broken shit. I think on the strength front he should be fairly strong. I'm thinking along the lines of MKD strength where he could take away half your bar on 1 juggle. which was completely fair since everytime you were launched by Sub you deserved it hardcore.
5. Ice Slide needs to go under highs. This stops the pressure and leads to wake up.
6. Sub's reversal and parry game should be moderate. Nothing too sick. I believe his parry should give about +8 frames to work with and his reversal should do about 15-18 damage.
7. I think out of all the charaters in MKD, Sub-Zero would be the easiest to put into a legit fighter and not have to make many changes out side of giving him more throws,more specials and giving his moves properties. If more characters were like Sub-Zero this game would actually be a lot better since he's fair(along with Kira,Sindel,Ermac,Jade and Kenshi). Shotokan needs more mids. his 3 should hit, as should his 4. They look mid, and they were both mid in MKDA. Nothing in Shotokan needs to be cancelable, but I can see the b+2 in the 1,2,b+2 combo being delayable and cancelable as well. Obviously there should be no combos in MKD but rather strings, so 1,2,b+2 should not be guaranteed off first hit unless the 1 hits on counter. His low poke game is TERRIFIC in Shotokan and should remain the same. Just more mids and give him 2 simple throws with different escapes and 1 command throw.
Dragon doesn't need much changing as well. It's his safest stance and his fastest stance. He has some really cool looking movement in this one and I think it would be cool if within the Dragon stance is a defensive position. "Dragon Rest" would be the name. In this "mini stance in a stance" position Sub cannot move, but he has access to a high,mid and low reversal that all do over 20 and he automatically breaks throws when in this position. The weakness? Well other than the fact that he can't move he also can't block and has no moves in this position. I guess you could count it as a movement even though he isn't moving..lol. Other than that, his uppercut(d+2) needs to hit mid and his dragon high pokes(1 and 1,1) should both be cancelable. u+4 needs to be a mid like it is in MKDA and so should b+4. His low pokes should be untouched, but him(and every other char pretty much) needs a more powerful low attack now that throws are escpaeable. This is so people will STILL duck. So his lows should do a bit more damage. New moves would be welcome for Shoto and Dragon as well. Dragon should have 1 unique throw.
Kori Blade...done well enough. This is the stance that needs to have that BIG TIME low attack. I think it should be b+4 from MKDA. The sweep, but instead of doing 9% it should ike 20%. It should go under lows like the slide and should be delayable. If blocked it shouldn't be safe. Otherwise Kori b+2 definitly needs to say since Sub needs it. I am very happy with the Kori Blade in MKD. He needs more power blows and needs to be a bit more agile with the Blade. Speed up some of his attacks like Kori: 1 b+2 should be delayable and cause guard crush as should Kori:1. It should have it's own unique throws that have extra range as should all other weapon stances. Oh and a sick Kori reversal.
Im done for now..

Sorry, nobrainer, but I have to do this.
From here:
RE: 5 biggest problems with MKD

From here:
RE: what the hell is the point of making mk deception if its broken and so is the online ?



From here:
RE: what the hell is the point of making mk deception if its broken and so is the online ?



That one just amuses me but you said it, I didn't.
From here:
RE: Do you think Deception is the bloodiest, goriest, and most brutal MK game ever?

From what I'm seeing here, you're no MK fan. Look at that mess. You think some of the Hara Kiris are too cartoony? WTF? Traitor. MK has broken stuff and you don't like the infinites? Be a fan, for crying out loud! If you don't accept every MK the way Midway gives it to you then why are you even here? And you don't like the ranking system? Come on, Midway put so much work into giving us online and you have the audacity to complain about it? Show some gratitude! Guess what? Don't talk shit about MK if you want to be a fan!

Prawnedcore.
Seriously, drowning in a sticky mess of electronic ego eating text pizza type stuff right there.
I like those idea's too Vers. If I can be bothered to think up any for a particular character i'll post them. Maybe Ermac or something.
Maybe somebody should make a thread for character specific move property suggestions or something. I know you (Vers) kind of already did that though.

This thing is still alive?
Sorry people, this will take anyone to anywhere. Its a war.

What? That made no sense.

TTT is the shit lol. That was indeed pure ownage.
MKF, seriously, please try to make posts that aren't all the same. otherwise this is going to get boring. if you're going to make arguments, at least make valid and intelligent ones instead of recycling the same bullshit everytime. and it's true that the LOL, blablabla, hmmmmm and stuff are annoying and make you sound mentally challenged. please avoid using them too.
I'm actually happy with what namco is trying to do with 5.1... it shows that they actually care to try and make their game more enjoyable, even though they're not necessarily using the right method in my opinion... (it's true that they should tone down the SNBs a bit, but please tone up lei and the like..)
MK:D totally has the capacity to patch their game I guess, if it supports online... though a patch fixing the infinites and stuff wouldn't be enough to save it from crapiness....
btw, whenever I see someone say TTT, I think of tekken tag... tony's name is confusing >.<

I'm still waiting on my 2 answers.

TTT, that one was some funny stuff.
I think the most ridiculous thing about MKF's argument that MK Fans shouldn't say anything bad about the game is perhaps threads like these and others over the site:
http://mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=49670
I have nothing against these threads, they are all pointing how MKD can do things better. But it's funny how threads like these, that point to subjective/opinion as their basis for saying whether an ending, lack of secret, fatality, blood, whatever, basically sucks. Yet MKF won't jump on their case and say that they're stupid and not MK fans. That's just hypocritical to jump on only the "haters" that care about the gameplay where there is a factual basis and not all the "haters" that care about everything else with a opinion basis as well.
It's obvious that only MK fans would care enough to point out it's flaws for a better sequel.
That's not to say that MKF popping onto a story/ending/character/etc. thread and saying "did you graduate from Tolkien university?!!" wouldn't be funny though.

Fstyle,i have answered you in past threads,i clearly admit that Deception is broken,when did i ever say it wasn't???I guess i can't play a broken game and enjoy it.
Yeah the fighting engine needs work,but every game should be better than the last one,right?It just seems to me that some people are a little too harsh on this game,while there are others that players either don't play anymore or are simply afraid to bash.Lets just say they aren't MK.I mean,SC,good game,but seriously,come on now,your telling me that thats not a mere button masher,i have won in that game by just hitting the same button over and over LOL.
Tiger,no offense dude but you must have had alot of time on your hands to go nuts finding what like 90% of little things i posted in different threads.Yeah,get your kicks,whatever,really don't care.Ok,Bo's hari kari,let me get this straight,you bash the engine to death,but think doesn't look a little bit cartoonish??Give me a break.Almost eveyone that has ever seen that hara kiri has agreed with me on that one for the most part,and it's dumb.Yeah thats right,i can criticise MK too,so what.It's ok for you too criticise MK but not me??LOL,after all a fan wants these things improved for the next game,well i want that improved.ok.
No brainer,gee thanks for the lovely compliments dude,i always enjoy them lol.
HD,you still not seeing my point,some of this thread is about opinion,not all but some and everytime i say something,you just come back with "MKF,you can't comprehend,etc.
Ok,i'll go out on this note,Whether you guys believe me or not i really don't care,but the fact of the matter is this.I LOVE MK regardless,it's not just about the game,it's about the franchise,the series,the popularity,the noticing a MK symbol and saying WOw,oh shit another MK game.And enjoying playing it with online friends and so forth.
Now unlike some of you ,i won't bash your opinions or reasons for wanting improvements on MK 7,ok.I clearly understand all about this shit,50/50's,hig game,low game,frames,the speed of the frames,with certain characters moves are insane,example Dairou,the TS move ok,recovery time after getting knocked down.yes i know all about this shit ok.I can keep going on and on,but you guys automatically think i'm dumb,so theres no point lol.Lets just say if you played me in Deception,you would understand how much of this game i know.
i may not use all of the fancy technical talk all the time,but i know what it is regardless.Now,if you guys want to concentrate on nothing but the fighting engine ,so be it,more power to you.All i'm saying is i want everything to improve not just one or two things,i want no stupid glitches,less or lets just say legit 50/50's if they must be in MK 7,no infinites,but even if they cut it down to nearly nothing at all,i guarantee you some guy that has time 24 7 to play MK will discover it,better graphics and smoother frames,honestly more of the classic guys like Sektor,Rain,Reptile,you know guys like these.Then again,different fans want different things.
More modes of play /better modes of play online or off.Example:instead of Chess and Puzzle,i would love to see an online endurance mode online with 6 players in one room and having a 3 on 3 showdown,like UMK3's arcade endurance.You get the picture.Anyway,i posted this idea in the future MK forums,and people liked the idea.
And just an overall solid game,now since Deception got godd reviews by most,i know that doesn't seem to matter to you guys,i think it should be taken into some consideration but to a point.As a fan i my judge the game myself,just like a movie,one critcic may think War of the Worlds is a great film another may not.Then there is the publics opinion.So,i can definitely see why some people won't even read reviews,but some do and some are influenced by them.
I love MK to death,now i'm not criticizing anyone,putting anyones opinions down,insulting anyone,i'm just simply telling you guys what i like,hey i'm not saying that you have to agree,but with all due respect i don't have to agree with you guys either,it's my right.And one more quick,i think it was Hd,but i'm not sure now,whoever said that i put down another user for disagreeing is BS%$%#ing out of their ass,i never once flamed anyone just for disagreeing,and i would never put someone else on here down unless you came at me first.
Now,i'm officially done with this thread,good bye.This thread has served it's purpose, IMO,although i'm sure some of you guys will keep it alive by saying how dumb,ignorant,arrogant,nasty,ruthless etc...i am.
One thing to also keep in mind,i will always respect and keep an open mind about your opinions on what you guys want in the next MK,i only ask you return the favor.
I would hope not,but whatever.
I'm not worried at all,there may be some people who hate me on this site,but i know alot of people who like me too,so it's no sweat.
Goodbye everybody!!
P.S. If anyone here feels like having some serious comp,jump on live if you have it with MK.

Actually, because of the search feature, it didn't take much time at all (no more than 5 minutes) since you hover around in just a handful of threads on the Deception forum doing the same song and dance.
Also, from page 6 of this thread:

Sounds to me it's only you who is allowed to criticize then. Get your story straight. Is it ok to criticize the game or not? Yes or no. You honestly make no sense. You start by telling us that we shouldn't criticize MK because then that means we're not fans but the second I show you your own criticisms it's all of a sudden ok? Then you completely miss the obvious sarcasm of my post and say:

So what is it? You say you criticize MK because you want the next game to be better. You then say that doing it is perfectly fine because:

Well...
...
...
That's exactly what we're doing.

1) My first question wasn't why can't you admit that Deception is broken.
My question was why do you refuse to say what's good about Deception's engine, why do you avoid it so much.
2) Still waiting for an answer on question 2.

Well you have tossed around insults and flamed people without provocation in the past so thats a load of crap.
The reason people call you stupid or an idiot is the things you say. The fact is you don't read the posts. I mean you have said things like we are telling you that you can't like deception and nobody has said that. In fact we've all said the oppisite. Whether you like it or not doesn't change the fact that its a bad engine and it's gameplay is horrible. Whenever you try to respond to this you always say no game is perfect but that's not even relevant to that statement.
I can honestly say that of all the people I've called stupid/idiotic/moronic you are the only one who I know it to be true. I don't mean to insult you because there isn't anything wrong with being stupid but you shoudl know your own limitations. If you aren't stupid do something about it read the posts and respond to them instead of posting gibberish or comments that contradict yourself or have nothing to do what was written in the thread.
I don't really care if I get a skull or not it's something that I'm sure several people in this thread agree on.
K lets take a look at what you said here:

This was despite me saying this:
This is why i call you stupid. You don't get this. I don't care if you enjoy the game or not. I've never once said you can't enjoy the game.
I did that on an earlier page and in several other threads as have others. So why should I believe you have any intelligence when you can't do that?
Why should anybody believe you have any intelligence when you have been asked numerous times to explain exactly how frames work. HOw online play works. How frames affect online play. How frames are used in deception. Thats just one thing you've avoided answering there are others.
I'm not mocking your intelligence because you disagree with me I'm mocking your intelligence because you can't seem to read. You can't seem to respond to a question asked. You can't seem to understand things that have been said over and over to you. You even contradict your own posts so why should I consider you intelligent? What have you ever contributed to any gameplay thread? What have you ever done positive period? Nothing but mindless drivel man. I honestly hope you are done with this thread and I never have to read any of your crap again. When I think about you the words too stupid to live come to mind.
On the subject of positives things we would like changed I don't really like the idea of coming up with all these radical changes like vers posted until the basics are done. Thats midways biggest problem they always want to try to do something amazing and fail because they forget about the basics.

Ok,you know what i have no problem with anyone else on here,except you True,only reason i'm responding now.
This is towards you and nobody but you.You think that you are god or something apparently,you flame,insult other users mildly so that people won't notice,but i do and so does fuzz.
I love it how you say i don't answer questions that i have answered several times now,yet when Fuzzdork post facts right in front of your face,whats your responce,you insult him like you're doing to me now,calling us morons,saying we have no sense of intelligence and etc.Because you know he's won the arguement,you lost it.Admit it Fuzzy out smarted you my friend.
And thats a lie about me flaming anyone first pal.I noticed you that all the threads that you pin point out in what i had said,NONE of them have me saying "You are a F$$#*$#& moron,you stupid ASS$*$&@#,i think you are a stupid Retard because i disagree with you and yadda,yadda,yadda.
Have i ever said that to someone for disagreeing with me,uuuummm no.Unlike you who thinks that you know everything and you walk around like you own the world and such.As much as it would be sweet True,you and i aren't gods so to speak.Just people.
I can't believe that nobody sees this besides Fuzz and myself,and that simpson sig dude.Whats your responce to that huh???Agree with me or else you're a moron,thats your motto.Even though you won't admit it.
You know what please flame me as bad as you can ,i want you too,just to see how much the mods are paying attention.
You went all out on that iris chick in the general,in which literally every person in that room thought you were a ruthless #$@#@.And you wonder why LOL.Yeah thats right i remember that he he.
I guarantee that if every person read that thread they would think differently of you instead of being intimidated by you or something,well i'm not.
I tried my best to clear this up,but you just have to get your knocks in.
well,this is what i have to say,go a head knock me,flame me,insult me to your little hearts desires because you will never wear MKF down EVER!!!
You want to see how much i understand the fighting engine ok,play me on live!!!!!!And i'll gladly show anyone here how much i know.Thought so.

Pleae flame me all you want to True,i'll be counting the skulls LOL.

1) My first question wasn't why can't you admit that Deception is broken.
My question was why do you refuse to say what's good about Deception's engine, why do you avoid it so much.
2) Still waiting for an answer on question 2.
(Re-post in an attempt to keep the thread on topic)

I just realize all these dude's post have nothing to do with gameplay.

this post i believe would definitly had a certaine significance lets see, in january 2005 for example. Now its just pure and simple du deja vu. Get over it man, if you are desapointed now, you will be desapointed later. Theres no escape, unless you are one of those who has accepted the flawes of mk or turn your back from them. Make your choice and live with it. Dont expect mk to decide for you. Fin de la transmission.

MKF, this is going to be a civil post, I'll point out why myself and others think of your posts thus far. Read this before you reply please.
Why you are questioned about basic mechanics of a 3d fighter.
I've said this before, but I want to reiterate. Games are an interactive medium, rather than movies and music which you can sit back and listen to. You are questioned about basic 3d mechanics not because it is "fancy" nor is it "technical", but because you yourself make assumptions on how a game is played. People are frustrated with your answers because you never answer any of these points, you just say "I know" or say insults like "tekken university" and assume that it's addressing the points.
Example: You are asked to explain various things about Tekken. Tech catches, wake-up, okizeme games, dash/stepping/movement techniques (to which there are about 6-8), wall games, frame advantage, etc.
Answer: The reason for this is that games are an interactive medium. You are being asked because your opinion is that another game is bad, which is totally fine. But you are asked to justify why MKD is better than Tekken 5. We ask you these things to check the validity of your opinion as well as if you really did play Tekken. As an interactive medium, you need to put in an X amount of effort to even experience a basic level of enjoyment. I gave an example before, so I will give it again here. If someone came upto you, and told you MKD sucked, but didn't know how to do special moves, block, or throw, would you respect their opinion? Of course not. This is the same with Tekken. However, the difference between learning Tekken and learning MKD is staggering. Instead of just knowing your movelist, you need to know how the game works and how to utilize your movelist to even play at a basic level. Unless you know everything that was in the above example, have you really played Tekken? Nope. I even extended to talking about SF with you, which you didn't mention, but gave me a typical reply. Therefore it's hard for people to believe you when the scope of the games you played seem to only be MK and for 3d fighters, only MKD.
Example: You yourself said you can beat people in Soul Calibur with just mashing one button.
Answer: I remember playing MKD online and beating 10 different people in a row with just f+1 in Scorpion's sword stance. Does that mean you can just beat everyone in MKD with one whole move? Certainly not. It really has no relevance over how many newbies, people you know, or family you beat in such a simple manner because frankly, they aren't even at basic level if they can be beat by mashing. In this example, Soul Calibur for instance, hella people come to my University's arcade every semester (new students coming in) and they get floored by any of the casual regulars. Not even the tournament regulars or the better regulars, but the casual basic regulars. I can't even beat the better regulars, and you know what? I've never once lost to a masher, ever. I play a lot of random friends/family and they think they know how to play, but unless you know how to use at least 30 moves with your character and guard cancel/unblockable/soul charge deceptive play and make your moves look different than they really are, you can't really play Soul Calibur. Hell I can beat all of my family and many of my friends with smart movement and one move as well. But when it comes to the arcades where I play guys that are great casual level players, I can't even get 2/5 rounds against them. All I can say is this, go to a place where you know there are people that play X game, THAT REALLY play it at least for a few hours a week, and see if you can beat them with just mashing.
What's up with the forum thing?
I don't need to link to all of these, this point you were making was really boggling me, I don't get what you were trying to imply. Were you acusing me of being on an MK forum and therefore an MK fan? Well I've told you before, I am an MK fan.
Were you saying that I should bring up issues about MKD to fans of other games? Who else would care about MK besides a message board dedicated to MK fans?
Did you want all the people on this board who had something to say to improve MK to leave?
Were you trying to point out which boards has the most members? Shoryuken.com, Tekkenzaibatsu.com, SoulCalibur.com, etc. have more members, but like I said, each of those boards are created for their respective games.
Were you suggesting that any forum that I read, meant that the game was the most popular/successful at the time? If so, I never knew I represented the entire fighting game community, because next week, I'll read stuff on virtuafighter.com and Virtua Fighter will be better than any other fighter because I'm reading their messageboard now? I read stuff from many boards many, I'm registered to probably around 10 fighting game message boards, but I only read stuff from 2-3 of those boards a few times a month.
I really don't get where you were going with that.
Popularity of a game.
I didn't get much of where you were going with this, you gave some flawed examples and in most part, few really did care where it was going because everyone already knew the answer of which games were more popular, but let's put some things in perspective.
Example: Your arcade example where no one played Tekken 3.
Seriously, this argument is very flawed and you know it. I gave you an example before, if I go to 10 people's houses and none of them own MKD, should I conclude that no one bought/play MKD? Of course not. If you count the top 10 arcades in the US and the regulars that play at those arcades for Tekken 5, you will have at least 500-700 regulars. That's not count the people that come to play in tournaments and all of that, which increases it even more since a lot of people travel vast distances to play for cash prize. Hell, a golfland near me, on Tuesday's, will be booked (the place has two Tekken 5 machines to accomodate) and you will see about 50-70 different people coming throughout the day to play on one of those two machines. Of course it is one of the top 10 most popular arcades in the US so that's also another reason. People come to play against some of the best in the nation.
Now if we go overseas, it becomes even more glaring. Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese players all play Virtua Fighter 4 and Tekken 5, with Soul Calibur 2 coming in at third for their 3d fighters. It's so fanatical over there is crazy, what's even more crazier is that the amount of people playing Virtua Fighter 4 and Tekken 5 in Japan outrank the amount of players in the US for any game. So on a worldwide scale, MK doesn't have a foothold, not even in sales to the people that would buy for fatalities, blood, etc. and then stop playing the game after they've seen it all/unlock everything.
Example: Again, you used your messageboard example, which you backed down from after you were shown that other sites had more members.
I don't get where you were going with this. There are a bunch of other fighting game websites that have more regulars for their respective games. Hell if you went to shoryuken.com, soulcalibur.com, tekkenzaibatsu.com, etc. you'd see that instantly that the boards are filled with more people and more activity.
Example: Dropout rate and fans of MK.
We both know that 95% of the people that bought MKD could hardly be called fans. I'm not sure how long you've been around these boards so I'm not sure if you saw the trends. But I was lurking around pre-Deadly Alliance and the two months before the game is released, you saw an upsurge of people that would come and hype the game and say how they're gonna play it everyday/competitively/etc. And then a few weeks after the game comes out and everyone unlocks everything, they're all gone. Whereas for other fighting games, fans are still there and keep playing and posting and learning. It's obvious that these other games are more popular because they are able to retain their userbases for such a long time. Hell, people today still play Marvel vs Capcom 2, and Capcom vs SNK 2 offline as zealous as they ever did, and trust me that's huge amount of people. (which you can see on ladders on shoryuken.com, hosting tournaments on the shoryuken forums, players talking about those games on the shoryuken forums, etc.)
Should fans care about a franchise's quality or not?
Tony already made a post about this, but I'll reiterate once again. I don't really know what your stance is. You began by saying anyone who said anything bad about MK wasn't a fan. If being an MK fan means never talking about the flaws, then why don't you go and attack everyone who points out a flaw? God knows that there are threads all over this site that talk about MKD's story flaws, character flaws, roster flaws, atmospheric flaws, martial arts flaws, etc.
We even pointed out flaws of Tekken 5.1, so does that mean we've abandoned Tekken as well? That is simply not the case.
Now on the last few pages where you were shown pointing out flaws with the game yourself in the past, you now say that it's okay to point out the flaws? I really have nothing more to say on this subject, but the way you acted outside this thread and went condemning all of us saying we weren't MK fans for pointing out flaws in MKD when you, yourself, did is the definition of a hypocrite.
Fact, Opinion and Fun.
We've been through this a lot and it's glaring to speak about it again. It's pretty simple when you get down to it. We don't mind you having an opinion when it comes to MKD, you can like MKD or dislike MKD for whatever reasons you want. The problem is that when we say that MKD is bad and why (with facts) you think we're trying to say that you're wrong for having an opinion. We aren't. We're saying that MKD, on a gameplay front, fails horribly. Your opinion of liking MKD does not mean that it doesn't have easy infinites. Your opinion of liking MKD does not cancel the fact that you can't break throws and the game is reduced to simple 50/50s. etc.
Opinion: You like MKD or you dislike MKD.
Opinion: You like MKD for the story.
Fact: MKD has a huge amount of easy to do infinites.
Fact: 90% of MKD's moves are worthless.
Fact: MKD lacks move properties.
Fact: MKD lacks a ground game, and thus facilities someone planting you and/or doing a 50/50 when you get up and/or infiniting you.
etc. the list goes on. But the argument between Fact and Opinion/Fun is something we've already pointed out. It's great that you have fun with MKD, that's fine and all. Hell when I was playing MKD for only unlocking stuff and reading the story, I was having fun with MKD too. I just don't have fun with MKD anymore because of the fact that it's gameplay has a problem in every aspect.
If you need more clarification:
Page 2 of this thread-My Post, Satya's Post
Page 3 of this thread-Satya's Post
Most of Page 9
There's more than that, but I didn't list all of them because I counted upto 10 posts of the similar nature so I decided there was no need to point to all of them since they say the same thing.
What does MK do well that other 3d fighters don't do in terms of gameplay?
There has been no answer to that question, but there have been many answers to what it does wrong.
I'll copy and paste my list from Page 4.
- There are no special movement systems in place so playing a spacing game, rushing down, avoiding 50/50's is horrible.
- Animation is wrong, too fast and choppy, fueling the 50/50 game
- There is no ground game at all so people can do throw infinites and force you into a 50/50 after you get knocked down
- The throw game has no breaks, thus an abuse of throws for 50/50 game
- 90% of the moves are useless
- There are many game breaking glitches such as Universal Tracking to make sidestepping worthless
- There are almost no real move properties and thus real setups
- There is no real stun game
- There are EASY infinites for almost every character
- There are no real movement options
- There is a lack of counters, parries, reversals, and in general, defensive options
- There are no multi-throws
- Imbalance of speed and power. Jabs lead into chains that do 20-40% fully guranteed chains. The fastest and safest move leads to higher damage than slow and useless ones.
- Everything is a chain that is guranteed on whatever hit lands rather than attack strings, canned dial-a-combos.
etc. the list goes on and on.
If you need more clarification:
Page 5, Verse's post
Gameplay Primer which many of us worked hard on to do.
http://mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=20494
Insults.
Let's be civil, we both called eachother names. I agree that is in poor taste to attack anyone who doesn't disagree with you, but as soon as you start attacking members, other's will want to attack back. It's a simple chain reaction that happens in threads that have varying opinions and thus, escalates to an unneeded level a lot of the time. It should definitely be stopped, as myself and Satya originally said
You baited people constantly with remarks that you directed to everyone who you felt wasn't on your side, used Tekken as a comparison, etc. You even went out of your way to demeaning people for reasons such as being younger than yourself.
I directed remarks back to you questioning your ignorance or intelligence due to you not acknowledging and addressing any questions put infront of you. As well as the need of reptition due to the fact that you brought up arguments that were already answered... several times, in consecutive posts.
Contradicting your own stance.
The whole MK fan thing. You tell people that they're not a fan if they point out flaws, even though you did outside this thread. Now you say it's okay after it's been pointed out that you did as well.
You stated that people that give personal attacks are arrogant, snobbish, etc. Yet you yourself went out of your way to demean other people (djwood) for being 15 years old and therefore, his argument was invalid. You yourself throw insults as well, yet the moment they're given back to you, you're somehow more mature than people that defended themselves?
The fact and opinion thing. You debated facts given to you about the game with your opinion that you like the game. As if liking the game invalidates that the game has a huge amount of problems.
The whole gameplay thing.
Quick judgement of my person from no information.


So which is it? You say you've never seen me post a civil post? Have you even read like the first few pages of this very thread? Check the gameplay primer where we took crap from people simply for explaining stuff. Hell we've been explaining things civil for a long time. The reason I insulted you was for all the above reasons of this post.
Anyways, I'm tired, I'm not going to post anymore because you're too biased to have a conversation/agree with others when facts are brought up MKF. You'll regain the respect of many if you took a solid stance. By either admitting that MKD's gameplay mechanics have more flaws than swiss cheese and that it doesn't offer anything better (on a gameplay front) than other 3d fighters because it lacks the basics. (THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CANNOT LIKE MKD, YOU CAN LIKE IT, BROKEN OR NOT.) Or you go and flame everyone on these boards for saying negative things about various aspects of MKD. If you went out and started attacking people that complaing about story, blood, fatalities and other things, at least I can see that you're a firm believer of not ever saying anything negative about the series.

Yeah, we can't start making character changes until the underlying mechanics are fixed. I see two broad problems: Movement and Properties - properties as a whole; frame data, CH system, etc. Then, there needs to be the vast array of theory that connects all that together. Which is part of the problem why DA/D has not been on par. I've said it before, even what is present, in terms of mechanics, do not work with one another.
It's like playing basketball with a small, toy bouncy ball you get from the quarter machine. You can still play it, but it's retarded and doesn't work properly. You can't follow through your shot, you can't cross over effectively, etc.
It's a very simple concept. As the great, and whored, Sun Tzu said, "Their is no battle with out movement." You can have the greatest tools, the best properties and so on, but if you can't move it's all worthless. MK's movement is extremely static. So that has to be adressed. Give us an appliable dash. Get rid of this retarded, half assed and one dimensenial backdash. The point of movement is to "gasp" actually move. Not backdash, pause...backdash....pause.....walk forward...pause...SS, what, I wasn't attacked so I don't actually SS....etc. You need to be able to mix and match the various, singular, movement options and do so seamlessly. Allowing you to space, run like a pussy and rush that pussy down.
The properties have been discussed to death, but there is a reason for that. Stuns need to be just that, a stun. Not a random animation that looks pretty. If I they are stunned you need to get free stuff from that stun. In order to have those stuns, however, you need the frame data. It is all these things which actually makes a move usefull. It is the lack of these that currently makes them not useful.
I think we need to seriously redefine the movement. I'd rather have some sloppy ass movement than this static, super linear trash we have now. Frame data needs to be implemeted to aleviate the 50/50 game and add properties to the moves. Properties define a move, period. With out them you have; hit, knock down or juggle. That's it; really good Midway, GG!
We need to go oldschol. I really did enjoy the throwback - thanks Verse, I'm using that term like crazy now - environments and atmosphere. I'll admit, it was the first time in a long time that I had a smile on my face when playing an MK; until the gameplay said "Hi, what's up?" We need to go back to the HP/HK system, we need cross ups to come back as well as anti-air / pro-air situations. Get MK off the ground, damnit!! The 3 system is trash. Give us one hand to hand, one weapon and let it be at that.
I say again, we need to be able to move, we need air to air situations, bring back OG control scheme and give us properties. Very simple, very fundemental. It would be extremely "fun" and functional. Deep yet not complex. What MK needs to be. Peace and love ya'll.
Edit: Oh, and get rid of those retarded beyond belief canned combos!!! At least the huge ones. That is like from the....never!! It wasn't ever a good concept , even in the beginning. It's trash, unintuitive and lacks player creativity. There are better systems out there.

MK feels like I'm rolling a sack full of pointed rocks where as VF, Tekken, and SC feel like I'm rolling a smooth bowling ball. MK just doesn't have any flow to it. The other three, once you reach a high level, it feels like you're dancing and free with movement. It gives you satisfaction. Infact, you can tell a person's skill level with those three games just by the way they move. That shit takes months of hard work just to move properly.
The 90% of the movelist being worthless is also something I have a gripe with. See, in Tekken 5, Bryan's taunt cancel and high parry are top tier shit. But, if you're like me and play on pad, those things are harder to do consistently or as much as I'd like. However, they' don't hurt my game because I don''t use them (not as much as I'd like anyway). I just find other strats to use. In MK, it's basically one way or the highway. Unless you like making up rules to handicap the way the game is supposed to be played. Which is funny because handicapping your game is pretty common with MKD from what I read. If you tried doing that or suggesting that with a group of VF, SC, or Tekken players, you'll get laughed at. I guess that's a good example of showing the differences between MK and those games and MK fans and other fighting game fans. It also shows that the MK team doesn't know their game from their own ass or they just simply do not care. They had the perfect chance to make things right with the Gamecube version. Namco or Sega would of done just that. Did the MK team? No. It's pathetic.
Blah everything's already been said. And we still have another year to wait before MK7 info starts getting out LOL.

I never said that Mortal Kombat sucks I'm saying that Mortal Kombat is better than Tekken. So you know I am a huge Mortal Kombat fan.

Of all the comments MkfLegend makes, the one where he says; "This thread has served its purpose" is the most ironic, because it is the fact that everyone is being distracted by him that is causing this thread failure to meet its purpose, in the first place.
Sorry to be annoying, but we really have to get this thread on track... It's our duty to Mk.
The only worry, is that if we're trying to get Boon's attention, then maybe this is the wrong time to do it. Ed is busy with Shaolin Monks, so is unlikely to be reading the message boards.
Ah well, if interest in this topic wanes, we can always start it up again, if and when Mk7 is announced...
Oh, and sorry for changing the thread title. One question: Can I do it again?

Actually No Brain..Ed Boon is doing with Shaolin Monks what Shigeru Miyamoto did with Wind Waker. Basically just looking over it to make sure everything is ok with it. Wind Waker turned out to be phenominal..lets see with Shaolin Monks.
From what I hear, only a few main dudes are in on the MKSM game. I hear it's mostly the paradox crew doing their thing with ed boon and the rest looking over to make sure the story works and everything. Everyone else is working on MK7. So maybe he is reading.

The thought of Ed Boon reading our comments is somewhat disturbing...
*Ed Boon lets out quakes of evil laughter as he schemes and plots; "Today Mortal Kombat, Tommorrow; The World!!!! Mwhahahaha!!!!!!!!"*
*Nobrainer hopes Ed read that! Nobrainer wonders what Ed Boon is thinking right now. Probably; "Mwhahahaha!!!!"*