And why did you only want to refer to that? That's what I'm talking about. You blew off my whole post because of that comment...



It was obviously a joke, we knew that. It's just that it was a SHITTY one...

That's why Versatile said "talk intellectually with Cartman SP". So you wouldn't respond with a lame joke again...

Yeah, too bad it didn't help much CSP.

Versatile,still talking shit about me,well i'll consider the source.DOA blows,especially online.

Please,Fuzz so put you in your place,how do you react,by insulting him lol,AAAAHHH typical.


Keep counting your chickens before they hatch,MK 7vs. DOA 4.


Has anyone noticed that it's Tekken vs. MK,now apparently MK vs. DOA 4 LOL.

Hey,Fuzzdork,i'm seeing a pattern here,are you??LOL

It's just my opinion on who's more dedicated as a fan. I also gave some examples of why I think that. Quit trying to attack me like I'm passing everything off as fact and you're going to prove me wrong by asking questions non stop. You're the type of person who will attack someone on a message board (much like you are now) who calls someone gay. "Oh yeah? Prove he's sexually attracted to people of the same sex.". LOL Wack wack wack. I didn't say you HAVE to be anything to be a real fan. Cartmansp gave a REALLY good example of what I meant though but you just ignored it. Which shows me you don't care at all about the statement I made about real fans. You just want to personally attack me by asking a bunch of stupid questions while ignoring good answers by people who obviously understand me. That's cute. I'll give you an autograph and a high five. People like you make my fanbase grow.
But it's like the age old wrestling question. Who's the better fan? The mark or the smark? My opinion, the smart fan. There's no real answer. There's two sides to the coin.

Seriously dude, haven't you said like 3 times that you're done with this thread?

And I don't think MKF has still answered the questions we'd like him to answer...

Okay, I first want to say that Im an MK fanboy. Yes, Im pretty fanatical about MK, Ive collected MK stuff since MK1 and I love MKD. I even collected stuff such as pins, toys, and the initial card game. Now I have to say that this thread makes a lot of MK fans look really stupid when it comes to gameplay, but I guess I kinda agree that most are. Anyways, Ive been lurking around these forums a few months before deception, but never felt needed to post until now. So this is gonna be a long one.

First of all, the insults need to end, period. No more insults on this thread, no matter how valid some may be.

HDTran, TTT, FL, Verse, and others:
I hella respect you guys, you wrote up the primer and always put out points to people challenging why MKD's and MKDA's gameplay is any good at all. I want to mention some things though. Yes, Im of the people that likes MKD, but I know that there isnt anything good about the gameplay. Ive played many other 3d fighters and learned while you guys were talking right after deception, cause even though Im an MK fanboy, there had to be some truth to what you guys were saying, so I went out there and I tested it.

Soul Calibur, Tekken and Virtua Fighter were obvious ones that I picked out from all of your arguments that were in the arcades, where I could really learn from others. Virtua Fighter I gave up on immediately because while I saw a billion match videos and competition, they were all in Korea and Japan. Its the most advanced 3d fighter out there, hell I picked up the game, went into training mode and I was humbled in 1 minute.

Next I went to Soul Calibur and Tekken. Like MKF, I initially thought Soul Calibur was for mashers. Man was I wrong, I went to soulcalibur.com and started learning stuff, I couldnt believe there were people out there that would use more than 10 moves in a match and how advanced it was. I watched match vids of Soul Calibur and those guys play on another level. So I started learning and picked out an easy character to learn in Soul Calibur, Xianghua. I finally saw some of the stuff you guys were talking about. Cancels, movement, frame advantage and all. I learned a lot about 3d fighters then and how they worked. I learned why you needed a wakeup game to stop the 50/50s, I learned why nothing in SC2 is truly 50/50 and why good animation is needed. I learned why frame advantage was so important, it lets you recover faster so you can bait for counter-hits for their counter-hit properties, and make moves better. Frame advantage also let you do real setups and set into real offenses that I never saw in MKDA/MKD.

After that, I tried Tekken, man... when I went to character threads... I was really shocked. Soul Calibur kinda prepared me, since their character guides were around 8 posts long... but man in MKDA and MKD, whenever people talked about characters and how to learn how to play a character, it took at most 1 whole post that isnt always filled at maximum length. When people talk about how much it takes to play a basic level character in Tekken, it takes at least 20 posts that are all filled to the brim. Some characters take even more. T5 was out in the arcades by now and on console, so I tested it out. I was humbled again when I tried Tekken. I learned what okizeme was, and how to keep my opponent grounded and how my opponent could escape. I understood what tech catches were and how you could chase your enemy on the ground. I learned the different forms of movement and I watched videos of how it could be used... man it is crazy how cool moving around in Tekken is, its definitely the fastest game out there. I learned more things about how important frame advantage and disadvantage was, counter hitting became even more integral and you had to constantly bait your opponent so you could interrupt them and get that juicy CH. Lastly I learned how important it was to space and to close and open the gap between two characters.

After learning all of this at home, I finally took the ultimate test, I went to sunnyvale golfland to try. BTW, I live in the san jose area HD, we should hook up sometime and play some matches. What HD says about the 2 tekken machines are true and the SC one still has quite a few people after all these years. I played around, I got dominated. After everything Ive learned, I couldnt even get a round. The Tekken guys that I played and talked to could sympathize with me and told me that they were only considered average, I was shocked that I couldnt even play average level Tekken with these guys. I tried SC2, played with a few guys, who said the same thing that they were only average. I asked for their names and true enough, Ive looked around the tournament scene and Ive never heard of them, but they whipped my ass the same. After learning all that SC2 stuff and dominating family and friends, I couldnt believe how hard it was to even play at a casual level with these guys. Again, I was humbled.

Now my stance on MKD and MKDA. I love MKD and MKDA. I love it because its simple and doesnt require much skill to play it at all. Yes, MKD and MKDA, on a gameplay view, is shit. It doesnt do anything right, it doesnt offer anything new, and if you were planning to execute different strategies in the game, forget it. Every character almost plays the same, you mix up between two different heights, there is no movement game, there is no counterhitting and animation is horrible. Ontop of that, like HD said, 90% of the movelist is worthless, you can MASTER any character in a day. MKD is also horribly broken... anyone could do MKD's infinites easily in a normal match and everyone needs universal tracking and such so sidestep is rendered even more useless. Add to the fact that this type of game requires no real thinking at all, besides guessing whether something hits low or mid, you have a game that has a lot of luck. Add in characters like Dairou and its even worse.

Some characters in Tekken like Lei Wulong, Ive found from most people that it takes years to truly master them and from the looks of virtuafighter.com when I read stuff... people are still mastering characters that they've played with all along because of all the options they have in their game. Their game is ever-evolving... something that MKD and MKDA will never have. I still love MKD for other reasons besides the gameplay. I love the characters and their powers and all of that, but like you all said, those arent facts, thats my opinion. The facts really are, that MKD and MKDA is the worst 3d fighter that exists today. There is one plus to MKD/MKDA though, it doesnt require much skill to play, so people like myself, who arent good at outsmarting and strategic play can still compete. Sure, oneday I would like a simple MKD/MKDA game that ALSO has depth, like HDs example of soul calibur, but maybe that day will never come. Im really glad though that there are people like you guys who care enough to try to explain all the things I had to learn myself.

I still love MKD and MKDA though, but I always wish they could be better.



Verse:
Ive seen you made many many posts in the past, youre cooler than to put people down, I dunno why youre doing it now, but Fuzz doesnt deserve that.



Even though I said I want the insults to end, I feel that the following is needed.

MKF:
Let me tell you this, no one is siding with you. Even MK fanboys like myself wouldnt side with you, youre constantly contradicting yourself like HD said and you dont understand anything about gameplay. The insults that were given to you were justified, youre really slow and you dont reply to anything that has been said to you, like in the previous post. You dont know much about the community and your lack of respect for many of these players show. Verse, who defended MKDA for the longest time, was once adamant like yourself. But he learned and all from all the knowledge from people like Satya and HD, and so have I.

Don't go telling people that their patterns are the same when your shit is too. Your the biggest hypocrite out of anyone on this thread. All your replies are a pattern of the same shit, different day. LOL, HHHHHHMMMMMMmm, bla, I know, and throwing out insults and then picking out people thinking that they do side with you. You got absolutely nothing to say and dont know shit about 3d fighters. Then you go and tell other people that they can't do what you did. People call you scrub, stupid, lacking intelligence, or ignorant cause you freaking are. You make up rules so MKD can be played better, thats how sad MKD is, you cant even play MKD to its full broken potential even though you know its broke beyond all hell and nothing midway put in the game works right. Dude all your replies are sad and you havent contributed or said anything on this thread besides your ignorant bullshit. You make everyone that likes MKD and are okay with its gameplay look bad.


First post from me, yay!

Also, while I still play and am learning soul calibur and tekken, those games are definitely too hard even on a casual level. People are just hella good and outsmart me all the time.

I agree that the insults must stop.

Justice: I IM'ed you how you can get in contact with me, definitely if you want some matches, that would be great, I play almost everything or at least can hold my own. Some links I'd recommend since you said you were semi-stumped over VF. I know its not played in the states much, but its good to know. I recently gave some of these links to another person as well, so I want to post up as many useful links here as possible for anyone to check. Ive tried including legend/basics for each game and a link to character specific (some random character I pick out) stuff.

I think that the links illustrate a lot about how much depth these other fighters have vs. MKD. Definitely, if MKD was this strategic, it would be an amazing game to play. NOTE: SOME OF THESE LINKS SCROLL OFF THE ASSIGNED SPOT FOR THE MESSAGE. JUST CLICK AND DRAG FROM LEFT ALL THE WAY TO RIGHT

Match Videos

Fighting Game Matches of just about every fighter
http://www.video-opera.com/

Match videos of Tekken 5
http://www.tekken.net/

Combo Videos and such
http://www.combovideos.com/

Soul Calibur 2

Soul Calibur 2 Legend
http://www.soulcalibur.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0bc23197f92f1575311b950910e36279&threadid;=607

Cassandra Basics Guide
http://www.soulcalibur.com/forums/showthread.php?s=52c786d44474fe9b7a4c9eec47592554&threadid;=8345

Virtua Fighter 4

Virtua Fighter 4 Legend / Basics / Nuances
http://virtuafighter.com/vf4/

Since there are no character specific forums, you generally have to look through topics for VF if you want to learn character specific stuff. Just check around.

Tekken 5

Tekken 5 Legend
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/legend.php

Unfortunately Tekken has too many basics and I don't think anyone has put everything together before on a basics/mechanics level for T5. I used to know a post that put all the dash techniques in one thread, oh well, it's lost now.

Tekken 5 - General Strategy Board
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=969d155c6f21c2cd189764b8364cc24f&forumid;=60

Kazuya T5 Character Board
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=969d155c6f21c2cd189764b8364cc24f&forumid;=73

I thought I'd help by making all those links "clickable"...



I'll probably look through them myself in a little while (after I finish my cookie), or more likely tomorrow, since it's getting pretty late...

Justice_MK, you're a good man and a new role model for being as open minded as you are. But don't be intimidated at the complications of these games. Stay away from the fighting game lingo if you're a beginner because you won't understand it. You'll get too overwhelmed. Just learn a character, their move list, some basic combos, and just start playing. I started playing Tekken 4 and I was immediately lost trying to read strats and what meant what. So I just picked a character I liked and just started playing. I also watched a lot of match videos (far easier to understand than reading) to see how good players played. Little by little your game will pick up and so will your understanding of it. Also remember you won't ever truly master these games. It's a constant learning process and is far more rewarding that way.

1) My first question wasn't why can't you admit that Deception is broken.

My question was why do you refuse to say what's good about Deception's engine, why do you avoid it so much.

2) Still waiting for an answer on question 2.
(Why do you keep on using language on par with a ten-year old eg. LOL bla and hhhhhmmmm?)

(2nd re-post i think now, no amount of avoiding the subject will prevent having to answer the questions, might as well get it over with)

I'm actually really tired of this thread. If it wasn't for a select few trying to keep it at least a little on topic, it would probably have been a flamefest and closed already. I haven't said anything negative about any of the gameplay players or their opinions. I don't know why some of them cannot respect others, whose opinions differ about the quality MKDA & MKD. I think they're decent games overall and fun to play, and that's all I've ever said. I've haven't denied that there are problems with them, and I've haven't bashed anyone's comments because they think gameplay is what makes the game, instead of the many, many other aspects that bring the game together as a package, like story, fatalities, minigames, etc. It's pretty sad when two members are trying to discuss something, and then you have someone like Vers, who comes in and starts talking shi......uh, poop.......and says things like "shut up or I'll rape you." It's pretty childish, and really sours the gameplay players stance. There may be two or three of you that make valid points with explanations, but then you have the rest that feel insults get their points across. Maybe that's why you're such a small group. Excluding a select few, to me, most of you seem like assho......err, buttholes. You feel one way about the game, I feel another. That's it.
Just one more thing. I still think it's pretty unusual that a member like Versatile can say things like "Now shut your scrubby mouth before I rape you " without getting skull points, yet I know a mod has been through this thread since dragon points have been given out. Seems like the mods like to ignore the posts of more frequent, vocal members, no matter what they say, yet I got skull points for saying "moron" once. I even PM'd the owner of this place once to call him on the obvious favoritism. Did I ever get a reply? Nope. Interesting.

He said:



You missed the second half of the sentence which changes the meaning dramatically. If he said only what you suggested it would be a serious threat but coupled with the second part it becomes video game lingo (and pretty common lingo too) for "win with ease". If I said, "You raped me with your Ermac" it means it was a pretty one sided match in your favor.

Actual insults shouldn't be thrown around, sure, but you do understand how frustrating it must be when someone like mkflegend is asked a question multiple times and instead of answering it, or even acknowledging it, he responds with LOLZROX0RZ , don't you? He basically came in to this thread with the intent of disrupting it and when he's challenged with reasonable questions and facts he either pretends he never saw them or sends out insults of his own. Couple that with the many times he's responded to "You can like the game if you want but the engine isn't very good" with "Stop telling me I can't like something" and it does get very frustrating indeed.

It's funny.You side with MKF,who has made the most childish comments with numerous "LOLs","Hmmmms",and "Blahs",in his posts,but complain about Vers for making one offensive comment.But I don't want to argue about this,so anyway...

Personally,I could really careless about the fatalities,mini-games,and storyline in this game,or any fighting game for that matter.I haven't done one fatality online and I've been playing this game for months.I've never played either Puzzle or Chess,and I certainly don't care about a fighting game's storyline,and neither do I feel the need to analyze it and discuss it.I mostly buy a fighter to fight,and thus,analyze its gameplay features.Storyline,fatalities,and mini-games are all extras;they're not going to make me better at this game,so I don't play them.

I'm not saying doing all these things is wrong.You bought the game and you can enjoy it however you'd like.But for some of us,gameplay is probably the ONLY reason why we play the game,and if the gameplay sucks,then we will complain.It's that simple.And since you admit being an MK fan,and we want MK's engine to be better,I don't know why there are disagreements here.Simply let Boon make the changes that we want him to;you can still have your fatalities,storyline,and mini-games.

Yeah, it's amazing how people grasp for some kind of redemption(such as skull points) when they get totally owned in a debate. Not this is really a debate, anyway.

Justice_MK, you're fucking awesome. That's the kind of fan I want to see. Someone who's not ignorant and willing to evolve with the times. Good shit. If you ever wanna play MKD just let me know, I can show ya the ropes.

"MK sucks... So, Ed Boon is using it as a mind control software package to tak over the world!"

Lol, that made me laugh.

NOt really Dave,you see as Fuzz mentioned,it's not us that saying childish shit like,"i'll own your ass,before you play us"or you guys know nothing even though i know for a fact that Fuzz and i have brought up good points,we are just simply out numbered by these guys.

I give up repeating myself 100 times now.Most of you guys with the exception of Fuzz and a few others who don't post in here anymore,(i'm starting to think they had the right idea LOL.) seem to be not understanding Fuzz and i.

We are not the ones tossing insults and putting other users down like hot cakes unlike alot of you guys.You seem to believe that just because Fuzz and i enjoy this game that we don't understand the glitches,the broken gameplay,50/50's etc.We do,despite whether or not you believe it or not we do.

You know MK justice you contradicted yourself a little bit.You said that there are different types of fans,yet you put me down because you just happen to be against me,right.

Even though,like fuzz,i sculpt MK shit all the time,my room is literally covered with MK posters and Dragon logos like you wouldn't believe,i have all the movies,taped every episode of MK:Konquest in which i stayed up late at night leading into Sun mornings,which aired at 2 AM through 3am.Hell,i even sat through some of the episodes just because i enjoyed them so much,i have all the music,all the games,i want the cards when they come out too,i was thinking about collecting the figures if they make say all of the characters,but i'll see,bought every MK game the DAY they come out,i waited one hour before the store even opened in the MAll when they got Midway Arcade Treasures 2 in just for MK 2 & MK 3.Shall,i go on??

Well,if anyone here understands it's definitely Fuzz.

Seriously fuzz,i don't think anyone else in here sees the series the way you and i do.

Dude,BTW man,waht do you make your MK figures with??Clay,air dry,Plaster or what??You said that you paint too,am i right??

I'm not siding with anyone. How many times has MKF mentioned me in his posts? I don't know, a dozen. And how many times have I spoke to him directly or agreed with him in mine? None. I only used that quote from him to reinforce the notion that there is too much insulting going on concerning the disrespect of others opinions. I don't care what MKF says in this thread. I say what I have to say, and that's it.

Let's not even go there homie. I have tons of posters, both movies on DVD, all the games and I read Gavok's MK guide every now and then to make sure my knowledge of the story is still sharp. I'm alost still searching to this day for MK: Conquest and MK: Defenders Of The Realm episodes with my p2p program. I'd bet money I know the storyline better than you do as well. What's cyrax's robotic name? What's Scorpion's real name? What realm did Reptile's ancestors go to when Shao Kahn invaded outworld? How old is Kitana? What's Johnny Cage's real name? What was the name of the special forces agent who was killed by Mileena in the MK2 comic? What characters did John Tobias want to make his do after special forces

And as much as I love all that stuff, it doesn't hide the fact that the game sucks..simple as that. The fact that neither you or fuzz can comprehend this is a tad bit disturbing. We all understand you're both big fans. Doesn't matter. Im just as big of a fan but I know shit when I see it, and MKDA and MKD is shit. It lacks so many things that it's almost disturbing as you and fuzz not acknowledging it's mediocrity..

Stop posting here..you said you were done.

You haven't brought up a single point in this entire thread. You've avoided answering any questions and just made yourself look like yourself.

You're tired of repeating yourself?! How do you think the rest of us feel who have tried to educate you in any way? How do you think the people feel that have asked you questions over and over again that you refuse to answer?

Actually MKF you toss insults rather freely and always have. It's cute you think that you don't. I fully admit to it but then again I'm not a moron who can't form a coherent thought. I guess if i were I might not admit to tossing insults at people either.

We seem to believe you don't understand anything about the gameplay because the few times you attempt to post something gameplay related it makes no sense. You refuse to discuss them and you have repeatedly showed you have little to no understanding of what frames are, how they work, and why they are important to a fighting game.

Seriously you don't want people to think your terminally stupid try actually responding to posts instead of attempting to ride on somebody else's coattails.

I guess you missed the part where i said,shall i go on??he he he.


Do you ask all the retailers every single time you enter the store,"Excuse me sir,do you know when MK:Conquest is coming to DVD,well i know the story about that,do you??What about Sektors code name?How many realms were mentioned in the short series MK:Conquest,how many were in the show??Who wore the cyborg costumes??How did Jax get the metal arms??

Yeah Versatile,i can play that game too buddy.

And tiger,if my intentions were to fuck up a thread,i would just come on here into every thread and start with everyone for no apparent reason like some other users on this site.Go a head Tiger,please find me a thread any where on here where i invade it and threaten people or say who wants a piece of me.Good luck on your search,you will find NONE!!

And don't go quoting any of my responces unless you intend to quote what the other person has to say either,if you don't mind.


Ok,then i think i will leave now,because eveyone in here hates me so,i think i'll go where people actually respect me.

Bye,bye,nice arguing with you guys,it's been a trip.

It's ok Fuzzdork,you look like you don't need any help at all unlike others that feel they must gang up on a few users just to win an arguement LOL.Amusing indeed.





















































































































































..AAAHHHHH,you try to help people

"What about Sektors code name?"

LK 9T9

"How many realms were mentioned in the short series MK:Conquest"

Uhh..Earthrealm,Outworld and Netherealm I guess. I've seen like 3 episodes.

how many were in the show??"

Earthrealm,Netherealm and Outworld.

"Who wore the cyborg costumes??"

Sal Divita

"How did Jax get the metal arms??"

He got them after the government refused to believe Sonya and him about Outworld invading. I don't believe how he got them exactly was ever revealed.

And it's funny how you're quick to reply when someone questions your MK knowledge, but if someone questions your overall intellect by asking what's good about MKD you're quick to avoid.