I can't say that MK:D was the quality MK game I was looking for, but in my opinion, it's the best one yet.

Puzzle and Chess were all right. Konquest was mediocre. But it did include things that none of the older games had, such as online play....and the nice revision of Ermac.

people on shoryuken are calling it 'mortal kombat deception' syndrome. you hate to love it and i know why, online playability probably makes up for what the game really lacks overall, a solid engine. people still play capcom fighter evolution because its online, and even thought the game is severely fucked people still play it. i guess its the competition is what people are looking for or they feel for a sense of belonging lol.

p.s. to the majority UMK3 was the best MK.

Well, if it had a better engine, I doubt most people would be complaining about the Chess and Puzzle aspects of the game. Personally, it's neither competition or belonging. I think the characters are the best of any game, any genre. The engine may not be great, but the characters are.

And yes, my comments come from my blatant and total bias towards Ermac.

Yeah, the overall ambience, characters, and storyline in MK are superior to other fighters in those aspects, imo.

However, they really need to focus on greatly improving the fighting engine. The fighting engine stuff in MK Shaolin Monks seems to be well focused on and looks great.

I think a main problem has to do with Ed Boon not really having as much input as some of us may think. Perhaps that since there are so many people now in the MK team, Boon doesn't seem to be able to put as much effort even though he's supposedly the lead programmer.

One thing that needs to be accomplished there, and I know it's probably been said before, is the need for good testers and programmers.

On a side note, while MKD's side games and such weren't superb, Tekken 5's stuff wasn't all that great either. I really like that they put the first 3 Tekken games in but I would much rather see the console versions instead of the arcade versions. I hate Devil Within and the spaceshooter game is boring. I prefer the 2D spaceshooter game from the first Tekken. That being said, yes, Konquest should've been better. The Chess and Puzzle stuff weren't bad, imo though when it comes to Chess, it involves fighting and yes, the fighting system needs work.

It's a good point you made about how people refer to Boon, which is a fault of mine as well. He is the lead programmer, but he doesn't (or at least I assume he doesn't) have complete input as to all the game's aspects.

Konquest wasn't a quality part of the game, obviously. But I didn't expect them to have a Shaolin Monks engine for Konquest AND the regular fighting engine AND online play AND the other extras, so I'm willing to be lenient on my criticisms about Konquest. But that still isn't an excuse, I know.

Damn dude, in every single one of your posts going all the way back into other topics I've never seen anything intelligent from you. It's rediculous.

First of all, you DON'T know a thing about other fighting games if you think they play similar at all. Soul Calibur is made by Namco and yet it plays nothing like Tekken. DOA was originally developed on the same board as VF and yet they play nothing alike. SNK and Capcom fighting games have been around longer than MK and yet the games never play the same. I remember the Capcom fans being miffed about losing their med punch in Capcom Vs. SNK and the SNK fans having to change their style of play because their characters felt nothing like they did in KOF.

These games play nothing alike. The question wasn't if you like MK better, people were asking why you think these games play the same. Damn.

truth.....

Nice.

This thread is becoming more and more abstract...



Didn't Mkflegend say Streetfighter was largely the same as Mortal Kombat 2?

So, come on then, tell us what these games have in common. This isn't an attack, so no LOL, Blablabla stuff, this is a civilised and perfectly acceptable query; Why is Streetfighter the same as Mk2?

You said that the Hadouken was D,F, just like Mk's ice attack directions...
Plenty of games use simple D,F commands, so I don't think this applies.
I haven't played Streetfighter, but I can see clearly that in visual terms they are nothing alike; SF uses drawn graphics and Mk uses digitization of actors.
The moves of Streetfighter involve "spirit energy" and are yet again, in the visual context, much flashier.
Mk feels like a dark and gory, theactrical comedy, Streetfighter is much more of a traditional Japanese style game.
More differences...
Mk's moves are much more simple to pull off, whereas Streetfighter's are of an overly context-sensitive kind.
Mk has a button for blocking(yah!), Streetfighter uses a system of backing away for blocking(?)
The Characters are vastly different.
The graphics have massively different styles.
The gameplay of one is deep, while the other is shallow(Mk).

All this is from someone who has only observed this game, and can mainly only point out the visual differences between it and Mk2, therefore you, Mkflegend, should feel obligated to finish what you started and tell us about the large similarity of these two games, in terms of the engines and gameplay... What is it like to play these games?

Make an informed and intelligent overview of the comparisons and then... If it is an unflawed arguement and only if, will we believe you.



I'm sure with your vast knowledge and having played these games, it will be easy.(no sarcasm)


Go on, suprise me.

in terms of gameplay street fighter being similar to mortal kombat is far from the truth. probably the only gameplay element that are similar are the basics, like the down forward motion(which was invented by street fighter and ripped off by all else). the reason why street fighter is not similar to the old mortal kombat games is because street fighter utilizes crossovers, mortal kombat does not. you have more control & playability in street fighter then you do in mortal kombat. cancelling plays a key part in control, in mortal kombat you relied on dialing-a-combo. atleast in king of fighters you were able to perform crossovers and cancel you moves.

the reason why street fighter and king of fighters are different in terms on gameplay is because in later street fighter games you utilized super-cancels, grooves, and isms. in king of fighters you utilized max activation which you can combo into and out and you had rolling at your finger tips. street fighter took a lesson from king of fighters gameplay and came up with 3rd strike, even then they are still far from being the same.

later you said marvel vs capcom played similar to street fighter and king of fighter, i laughed hysterically for about 10 mins. the marvel vs series is nothing like any other series, these games were simply button mashers. you run up with a launcher and chase em and mashed buttons, that is what you call an aerial rave. no other game had aerial raves.

i figured if mkflegend is going to run when confronted, i might as well educate the masses. i know most of you understand that not all games were created equal, this was just explaining how these games are unique in their own way. hopefully most will pick up on it and see which game suits them plus i need some more king of fighter competition.

Well talking to those two people, one of which doesn't seem to care all that much about you, could be done via pm's much easier than here where you respond to people pointing out your idiocy constantly.

If you've played the other games why do your statements show that you havent? Why is it you have no clue how to play them in any way other than what you've tried to gleam from us? Why is it you've never been able to answer any question on the games?

You've never made a point in any thread you've ever posted in. Lets see you quote some of your "points" because I don't think I'm alone in saying I've yet to see you ever make a point.

Why would I care to face you on deception? I've read a thread where you and kilerb were mentioned as being whiners. You complain about unskilled players and people who have played you say the top people on ps2 are better so why would yayo want to play you let alone me? I'd love to play you on every single fighting game ever created where I would hand you your ass including mk 1,2 and ultimate. You are a glorified scrub who can't play any other fighters so clings to deception because it's simplistic gameplay gives you the illusion of talent and self worth.

Now here's an example of why I, and others, call you stupid/moron/idiot/terminally clueless/WTFlegend etc....

Sure hope UMK3 goes online.

How many times have I told your stupid ass that UMK 3 has been online for years? How many times have I told you tekken 3 has been online for years yet you still don't get it. Seriously WTF man get a clue. I'm really starting to think you've got the problem the guy in memento had or drew in 50 first dates you've got no kind of short term memory.

You claimed to have played them but can't provide any details of high level play on them thats regardless of the fact that this is a MK site. I can answer questions about high level deception play and I've never even played a human opponent yet you can't answer questions about high level play on other games you've supposedly played. You wonder why I question your intelligence...



According to Jason wilson and others who know boon personally he does have as much if not more say on the game then we think. In fact quite a few say he's got such an ego when it comes to the game he refuses to listen to suggestions on how to improve it as we say in rayrokka's situation.




He always runs when confronted or whines about how people are insulting him and calling him names and says he never insults others despite every single post he's ever done being a glaring insult to my intelligence and the intelligence of others he also toss blatant insults around. He's closed threads before where I made him look stupid and he will just quit responding after he's made to look too stupid, as we can see in this thread. Now he's trying to justify his own hypocrisy by chatting with two people, one of whom seems to enjoy when people make fun of him, and the other who really doesn't seem to notice him either. He's amusing to read though.

Again...

If ignorance is bliss wtflegend has found nirvana.

lmao he closed his thread in the xbox online section where i had him in a corner. its a game of stumping the fool.

This thread deserves to burn in hell.

I would hope that in its short endurance, this thread was at least read by someone from Midway. I also hope that that person managed to pick his way through the krap and find the korn - A disgusting yet appropriate analogy...

I think we should klose this thread, thereby terminating anymore glorified incompetence.
Mkflegend, no offence, but don't post here; it hurts more than it heals.

Reluctantly, I vote this monstrosity deleted!

You know whats the saddest in all of this? That MKD could have been the goriest and a decently playable fighter. It has such an outstanding design, yet ruined by a C.R.A.P. engine. And I'm talking about KRAP.

Hey! Is there a hidden message in there? One that mocks the way I spell krap?



The saddest thing, I think, is the fact that we'll never truly know whether any Midway programmers have read the good points of this thread, or the stuff that's surging from Mkflegend's computer...

If MK:D is getting so much bashing from the people that supposedly like it, I'd hate to hear from the people that don't.

The problem isn't will they know or notice whats wrong but will they attempt to fix it in a logical manner or simply bandaid it again. rayrokka posted he had gone to boon at one point with problems that were known on DA and that would also be issues in deception and he ignored it and rayrokka didn't work there long after that. Quite a few of the current major flaws were pointed out prior to the games release but nothing was done.

What they should do is copy what other game companies have done. Bring in experts in fighting games. Top level VF players were brought in to help with the designe of tekken 5 in japan and it turned out to be the best one so far in the series. The vast majority of the problems in deception would have been quickly found by any of the top players of deception or any of the top players on tekken, virtua fighter, and probably the 2d gamers as well. Most of the flaws are glaring flaws that anybody decent can spot. It's like removing the shot clock or traveling in basketball. when those things are done it really changes the game greatly and it does it in a very very bad way.

I'd bet money they put 8 of those 12 hours into the fatalities and special moves.

Yayo, that was a Quality Post, save that I take exception to calling MvC a button masher. Both of the MvC games are glitchy infinite-ridden fighters, but a masher in MvC 1/2 will get about as far as a masher in TTT.

well, i guess i did go a bit far as to say marvel vs capcom is a button masher but then again there is still some hint of button mashing in that game. i have seen noobs pull victories out their asses with button mashing strider and wolvie. i wouldnt go as far as saying marvel vs capcom is infinite ridden, i know wolvie got a few of those.

Trust me they both are, and 1 is worse than 2 in that regard.

However, MvC 2 will be at Evo, 5 years after it's release. MK:D probably won't even be at Evo THIS YEAR, let alone 5 years after now.

Eh, I still reject the idea that the MKD engine is a TOTAL failure. Yes, there are a lot of mistakes, but there are also some things being done in there that just are not done in other 3d fighters today (at least not done well)- mostly regarding projectiles, teleports, and other special moves. Many would say that projectiles are rather meaningless in this type of 3d game, and I couldn't disagree more. I have won, and seen won, many games by using that one projectile to grab away that last bit of life.
The trick is learning from these mistakes...and if the ego is as large as some of you say it is, then, the fighting game you all are waiting for may never come. MK7 may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I think this is going to be THE game that makes or breaks the franchise, as before all eyes were set on fatalities and secrets, and the team delivered VERY nicely. Now, all eyes are on gameplay. Will the team deliver?
The trick is ALSO making an engine that keeps the same feel and style of traditional MK kombat, while implementing all of the elements (and more) that 3d fighting fanatics desire, and while trying to do something fresh and new to keep it from being called by creative critics "Mortal Tekken". Someone above mentioned the fighting used in Shaolin Monks. From what I have seen, I am also impressed. If it plays as well as it looks, it may be a good start for MK7, as it could symbolize a new bar or standard for the team to shoot for.
As for me, no other fighter has the mystique, story, unforgettable characters and one incredible universe to immerse myself in than MK does. That aspect has always been there for me, and probably always will. The features that MKD had in it were a dream come true for me, especially Konquest, and I hope they do that again for MK7.
But the things I mentioned above augment the game, they don't make it. Fighting makes the game. And yes, the fighting to me is a lot of fun, but there is still work that needs to be done, and it's enough work to have the fighting elite still laughing at MK.
Personally, I don't want them to laugh any longer.
As far as fighters go, I am still playing MKD. I tried Tekken 5, and it just didn't do it for me. My favorite of the Tekkens is still 3. It just seems to play the best to me.
Sorry so long. Just some rambling I had to get out.

A noob vs another noob could pull off a victory via button mashing but they have no shot in hell of ever beating a good player. I doubt you could beat me 1 time in 100 games on MVC 1 with or without button mashing honestly.

Wolverine has no true infinite on MVC 1 neither does strider.



Actually1 is far from infinite ridden. shadow lady, chun li, red venom, war machine(via unfly mode only), gambit. I know 2 has at least 5 and I believe more.



So the only things you can list right about the engine are the special moves which are done better on some other 3d fighters as well... I think project justice does them better as does maximum impact. I never felt the specials were done well in deception.

Seriously guys, c'mon. Everybody knows for a fact that wtflegend is completely lost.

This is beating a dead horse. He's a senseless child with no arguments or answers for absolutely any of this. It's established. It's not like anybody is going to believe anything he has to say about this topic from this day forward anyway.

Stop wasting your time with this clown and get your asses over to the midway forum to complain verbally tear this game apart please. It'll do much more good for our game.

but the dead horse seems kicking back. Hmm. Is it me, or has this grown into a massive humourless joke? MKD is broken, and no amount of babb-ling about content, theme, athmosphere will halep the game. OK, MK got a god ambience, but without the engine, no, it dies ina slow agonizing a shamefull way.