Vogel visiting MKO doesn't have anything to do with why I prefer his storytelling over Tobias'. It's funny that you're making us out to overrate Vogel when you're the one who is overrating Tobias. While I prefer Vogel overall, there are things he needs to work on.

In what way was MKDA poor? Shang Tsung and Quan Chi may both be evil sorcerers, but that doesn't mean they have always been on the same side. And you say that we don't know what we're talking about? What hypocrisy! With Quan Chi having the amulet and the knowledge of Onaga's army as well as Shang Tsung's abilities of soul transplatation, their combined might does pose a threat, especially if they were to get rid of Shao Kahn and Liu Kang. Now only do they have the power and skills, but they are also playing it smart.

So what's the consensus? Can we get this up on the newspage? Pleeeaaaase? Edit : And the problem with Mortal Kombat is not just the lackluster story. The characters as well. Everyone from up to MK4 was Tobias' idea. What does that tell you? We need him back.

After Tao Feng I would not let him touch a storzboard ever again, let alone character design. Anything after MK2 to MKDA looked like trash (MK4 engine in particular, the only good things it had was the light cell shader and the pacing).

Excuse me but Vogel has some principles concerning the storyline. What did Tobias do? Rehearse Bloodsport in MK1, give an uber-villain in MK2 and change the setting. Real thoughtful, at least MK3 had some grandeur about it.
MK4 fails on so many deconstructional levels it is not funny.

Tobias did not create anything, he followed a basic set of comprehendable and predictable clichés. Vogel created his own storyline, which is by all sense, a better achievement methinks.

exactly

John Tobias isn't responsible for arcade hardware, first of all. Nice job minimizing everything Tobias did. What did Vogel do? Have two sorcerers team up, then have some dragon come out, then have like some final tournament where everyone fights a sprite from MK2. Real thoughtful.

It's painfully obvious that you're extremely biased, by the way.

What

Does the fact that I do not give a damn about any MK even further your ma-levolently responsive attack?

What I have written has nothing to do with hardwave. At all. Bother to read.

MK4 plotline has flaws. Too many, too obvious.

Lets see here. . . Vogel gave us, the deadly alliance, The dramatic Dragon King Tail. And the masterful Twist of Noob being Sub Zero. Wile Tobias Did give up some amazing story, It was just not as deep. I love Tobias's work. . .And I love Vogel's work. But when it comes down to who tells the more compelling story. . .I give it to Vogel Oh, and frankly i am still a little pissed at Tobias for leaving us in the first place.

Dude. . .Why would i want to sighn a patetion for something i dont want to happen

No, it just leads me to believe you're confused.

You registered on a Mortal Kombat forum and eventually worked your way up to the status of moderator, prefer Vogel over Tobias, and claim you don't care about MK?

Rrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggghhhhht.

And Deception has too many plotholes. You mean to tell me the mighty Elder Gods have commanded Raiden to NOT save the world from sinister sorcerers?

And their reasoning behind their judgement being...







Wait for it...



















Wait for it...












Oh that's right. Vogel didn't bother to fucking explain why. Oops. The Elder Gods would actually PREFER all their realms go to shit.

That's some Oscar-worthy writing right there. A real NY Times best-seller all the way, no?

And not to mention the fact that Raiden can't die but got defeated by Shang and Chi anyway. Yes... An IMMORTAL lost a fight.


And you say Vogel is better than Tobias.

Haha. That gives me a chuckle. Is MK the only fictional work you've ever known or something? I guess so.

Because the Elder Gods are not "good" genius. They couldn't care less if two evil sorcerers enslaved the Earth. All they care about is making sure the realms don't get merged together. That's it.



So if you can't die, you therefore can never lose a fight? That makes no sense.

Shao Kahn is immortal and he was defeated by Liu Kang. And that was Tobias' idea.


Amusing how you blindly put down everything Vogel's done while at the same time accuse everyone else of being blindly biased against Tobias' work.

Pot, meet kettle.

I never said or stated that I did not care for MK beforehand. Stop being so reactionary and selective about what may prove some kind of basis for your reasoning.

Do not forget that at that time when Tobias was somewhat in charge, such elaborations on story were not as important. One could get away with a simple good vs evil game, nowadays ..thanks to overevolved mechanics we need to get compelled to play a game.

I want you to take a wild guess as to who didn't bother to read this post.

That's about all I read.

Son, you did in fact say that you didn't care for MK, though.

Look kiddos, this is just a huge misunderstanding.

This is not some kind of conversation I'm trying to get going here. Fuck your thoughts. Especially if they vary from mine.

This thread is solely here to bring attention to the petition. Capische?

To put this in words you understand........No one really cares to sign your petition..........Capische

Then why did you even post this in a forum in the first place?

Forums=mainly discussion

Once I cared. Now I do not. Why? Because I have better things in my life, a better understanding on martial arts for example. And frankly, MK simply lost the value, became redundant. But why am I writing this when you do nt even bother to read through anything? Btw as I recall I did not get on such level with you to be called "son".....

Btw the moderation, that rather has to do with the people around around here.
Actually the IRC has barely any MK going on.

Hm... I feel bad. Maybe I shouldn't dis on Vogel so hard.

Just thought I'd chime in to say: I don't wanna sign because I think they need better writing altogether. Nevermind who wrote what when, better writer than both of them have provided thus far is needed. To support that:



Absolutely right.

It's not just long term "fans", even "kids"//newcomers to the series are smart enough to know a lackluster story when they see it. I beard the witness too much already.

I wouldn't care if "better" came from one, or both of them combined...Or someone// some-group other than them altogether. It makes no sense to me, to be this old a company, and not have mastered the selling points of the product.

That's what I'm saying.

Well I loved the stories for the first three games and of course the characters. Vogel did an EXCELENT job with the Deadly Alliance story, Deception's sucked, I think Deception should of focused more on bringing back characters from deadly alliance than trying to bring back old characters which made it harder, you had to introduce the Dragon King and then go through the trouble of telling us why's such and such is back and how and on top of that, loose ends were not closed cause hardly no deadly alliance characters returned.

But I blame Deception on the fans. We whine about having crappy characters, so when we get a game with new and fresh characters and stories, we start crying about the "crappy" characters being gone. Its just one vicious cycle.

I would love to have tobias back, but if he don't want to come back than this petition don't mean anything. Yes, around 2002, Deadly Alliance time, he probably would of loved to be back, but after seeing the disasters that are deception and armageddon, I highly doubt he'll want to come back.

I just want a Tao Feng 2. EDIT, Someone said something that made me change my mind to having vogel, if midway stopped rushing crap and gave vogel time to create an awesome story, than its possible we could have stories of deadly alliance quality.

I thought you said STORY, not CHARACTERS, you say he has bad story writing skills, yet you use Characters as example, and last time i knew, character development and story development were seperate, linked, but seperate, im just going to sign because of Noob Saibot

Its funny about people prefering him over Tobias.

When John Tobias was with midway and the mk team you never had problems with the story line.And to be much clearer you never heard anyone really complain about it either saying why is this happening when this has already happen.

From mk1-mkgold and MKMSZ the entire storyline made sense and there was no plot holes that made anyone upset.But do not include MKSF cause john left in the middle of that game and they just sent it out 35% complete.

Ever since MKDA-MKA we have had so many issues with the story and alot of it no matter how people look at it doesn't make sense when you look back from the beginning.I do think John could have made a better story and I don't think we would have so many issues has we have so far.So yea John would probably have been better but its to late now cause we have what we have.


Oh and with MKSM even that story is kinda messed up which is really weird cause how can you mess up on that story when its already there for you.Is it possible tobias will come back??Probably not and I don't think he would want to now since he has been gone for so long.But the better question is,do you really think JT has nothing to do with mkda-mka?Cause if I had to guess i would assume Ed probably talks to john about whats going on and gets his input on the game and story.And I don't think they would ruin what ed and john started but who knows.


BUt the point is,ever since john left there has been many issues with the storyline and it never really happen before.Was there a problems with mk4 and mkmsz story??NOPE cause it made sense and added up.Was there a problem with MKDA,to a point there sure was.Was there a problem with MKD story,Hell yes cause they kept going back and forth in time and problems are expected when you jump around like they did.And is there a problem with MKA story??LMAO well yes there is sir cause again to much of going back in time before mk1 started to make sense of anything without saying this did or didn't really happen.

MK4 Scorpion Sub-Zero controversy, MK4 Liu Kang descendancy problem.
Not the plot, but mostly the characters in them were mistreated. MK4 had a real notoriety of underachieving. Kung Lao being alive, Goro....list goes on.

Yea but most of the problems in the storyline and whatnot came after mk4/gold.I wasn't gonna count gold as part of the storyline but i guess you would have to considering its just like umk3.

I was not counting MK4 Gold but MK4.