This PS2 shit is killing me bank-wise. I have to buy a network adaptor and probably the HDD. Since it's making games load faster. I don't want to wait 30 minutes for a round to start.

Needless to say, It's going to be a disaster online.

Haha, Im getting it for Xbox Live since I have Live and its all built into the Xbox. The biggest upside is Xbox Live does not let anyone with a dial-up modem to play.

I'm not sure if PS2's MKDeception is gonna be Broadband only or will it allow dial-up, but I hope for your guys sakes, its gonna be broadband or else the speed will suck so bad that everything is gonna be hella random (even moreso than the constant 50/50 mixups =P)

It has a "broadband only" sign in the ads so no 56gay.

I was going to get Xbox, but everyone good here has PS2. So I just said fuck it and bought one. But if it's terrible, I'll get the Xbox version.

Anyone here played PS2 online? What's the deal with cheaters and Gamesharks? Do they go unnoticed?

I'll probably be getting the Xbox version mainly because I'll end up playing more games on Xbox Live than I would on PS2 Online. But as for the PS2 and cheaters, I've talked to a few people who played Socom II online and they always complain about seeing people walk through walls and crap like that. I don't know if it's changed by now but don't be shocked if that Ermac you're kicking around isn't losing any life. It probably has a lot to do with Sony's hands off approach to online. Rather than taking the reigns they tell the individual game publishers to deal with it.

Excellent post HDTran I can see you have this game broken down. You know what your talking about and I respect and agree with all the stuff you wrote. Your right when it comes to the characters that can cheese you out. And anyone that has played MKDA long enough knows there are certain players to play if you want to win. I read what you wrote and it is right on. After playing in a local comp I decided to look into the game and try to find out what the hell went wrong with it.

For the most part if your not playing with Scorpion,BRC,Kung or sonya you are not winning. And in the last comp I played in everyone used the same players. And the whole day was spent watching the same combos over and over. I know that MKDA was not an equal well balanced fighting game. And you don't have to tell me about the VF japanese players I have played them. My best friend lives there and we have been playing fighting games for years. Have you ever seen the players play with one hand? Holy shit they are good. Yes there is a ton that NEEDS to be worked on before we can hold MK as a deep balanced fighter. But this thread has been bled out over and over. I just get upset at it coming up all the time. Then ten mins later someone says I can beat you or your a scrub and we have every knuckle head in the world screaming back and forth about this game sucks and this needs that, and your mother drinks milk. Tell me something we don't already know. After I played MKDA for about a week I went back to my other games. You might be able to Kill someone in MK but the animation and gameplay keeps me coming back to all the other games.

I know that MK will hold my attention for awhile but right now I am too busy playing Samurai Spirits Zero, KOF 3d max, Guilty gear isuka and Reload: gunlock. I won't be too worried about the depth of gameplay of MK tell the next game. There is nothing we can do about it this time around. But maybe next time. I did not mean to piss you guys off. Or truely make fun of other fighting games. And I am thankful you went threw all the trouble of posting that HUGE thread for me. I felt like I was reading one of my own notes on whats wrong with the game and how to make it better.

The problem with that is, when you try to show others that play the game, the flaws they get mad because it's there favorite game. And sometimes the only fighting game that they play. So they feel as if you are attacking them on a personal level.

Everything you guys have been saying will come about though. Once we get online and show the non-B-lievers all the cheese and when they finally see they can't win against a high tier character that has an unfair advantage, they will then know. But it is just like that most of the die hards need to be shown not told. So really it's up to you all to show the world that this game is broke and there is not a good reason to play 90% of the characters. I have a feeling when it all gos down people will be more than a little upset with the gameplay. And after about 400 matches of people losing they will get the hint. The MK staff will be forced to even out the play fix the things we want them to or suffer from people not wanting to play anymore because they can't win online. Nuff said from me. Im out DSB

dirtystankbutter Wrote: I did not mean to piss you guys off. Or truely make fun of other fighting games.

LOL! The whole, pulling Tekken out of your ass thing kind of threw me for a loop. I didn't quite know what to think. I was sitting there like 0_o.....o_0. After reading some of your posts I was like, "WTF dude, so where exactly do you stand on this issue?" In a way, I'm still kind of WTF, lol. Whatever though.

I still have no clue where he stands. Now he's on our side showing non-believers? What?

HD, you certainly know a helluva lot more about fighting games than I do. I knew about half the shit you were talking about, but thanks for breaking it down.

I think all of you guys are missing my point of this thread. I asked who here actually plays MK for deep gameplay. I never said MKD was going to have depth or even close. I think the main problem is that you "elitists" are trying to dissect this game to us "scrubs" too much. (No flamage intended).

I, for one, won't dissect a game like that because I don't care about it that much. What may not be up to your standard for a fighting game might be a superb game to me simply because I'm not looking for the things that you're looking for. You "elitists" sound like people that go around playing in comps around the country which is cool. I, on the other hand, will sit at home or at a friends house and play a game against a buddy just for the fun of it. I won't try to break it down on so many levels. Like people say, "Ignorance is bliss".

Look, I do understand what you guys are talking about but you need to understand where I'm coming from here. I know a little about shitty gameplay. I bought the DBZ Budokais for PS and that fighting engine was total horeshit in my opinion. I still enjoy the game because of other reasons though. Mainly because I was a DBZ fan.

I think that's what DSB is trying to say. He knows more about what the hell you guys are talking about than I do. I just don't think that he cares as much about all the technical stuff like you guys do. Correct me if I'm wrong DSB.

what is it with you americans havin in-depth conversation while i'm asleep

On the online topic, I've got a PS2, I play Tekken Tag and 4 on it, and all the other game PS2 games, and I know if people are going to be using cheats and there's nothing Sony are going to do about it I'm doubting getting my PS2 online. It'll cost me enough as it is so we'll have to see.

I was wondering what exactly will you be able to do when you're online in Deception, I've heard there's no tournments, no clans or anything, so are you just picking random fights with people and that'll add to some kind of record that shows how good you are? sounds like yahoo pool to me.

FLSTYLE Wrote: what is it with you americans havin in-depth conversation while i'm asleep

Well, I for one, have no life.

I'd just like to say here that the person who made the MKDA Guide (Ben Cureton AKA Tragic) absolutely hates MKDA with a passion. In fact, I talked with him, and he was so disgusted with the piece of shit that he barely wanted to finish the guide. So I wouldn't entirely blame him for the guide sucking. Maybe he rushed it so that scrubs can read it and actually think it's the right way to play. I doub't he'd want to work on the MKD guide unless they are paying good money.

DirtyStankButter, I am not good in Tekken. I am BARELY decent, and trust me when I say I know a HELL OF A LOT MORE about any MK game(besides maybe MK4 and MK!) than Tekken. Everything HDtran said I have known for over year, and I hope by reading that you can understand our frustrations.

SubOneNiner(appologize for fucking your name up, but I don't feel like looking back to figure your name out) I can understand you don't play video games hardcore. I do, but even I know there is a life outside of this shit. You listening Saty?hahaa just playing, but really, I have friends, and I have a pretty normal life..just geeked up from being a fighting game freak. If anything I feel bad for you, because if you are going to play MKD online you will be in for a HUGE eye opener. I hope after you see what we are all talking through MKD online you can realize we're not trying to be jackasses. I can also appreciate you saying we know more about fighters than you do. Unlike the legions of MK fans here, you can admit things like this. Props to you for that.

Now, I know this isn't an MKDA strategy thread, but I'd like to point a couple things out HDtran. Dragon: d+3 is pretty good, but it's not his only good low. 4,b+2 is pretty good if you use it SPARINGLY, because you can't see it coming, but it's very unsafe on block. Of course Kori: b+4 has it's uses too. It can go under high attacks(good vs Jax,Kung Lao and Hsu Hao who's game revolves around jabs), but it does shit damage.

Also, don't shun Shotokan. Shotokan is a must use vs certain characters. In fact vs Reptile and fast jabbers i'd stay as far away from Dragon as possible. Then again, vs Reptile and fast jabber i'd stay as far away from Sub-Zero as possible, but I guess us SZ players are just dedicated. Anyway, vs them use Shotokan. Shotokan: 1 if Sub's body is facing the screen hits mid, so that stops ducking. It is also FAIRLY safe because it's very hard to punish. You can throw out Shotokan: 1's while holding up to UT here and there to make them want to retaliate. Then start using 1,2 instead. If you notice 1,2 hits and you're fast enough reaction wise quickly input b+2 since that's all guaranteed. Then follow up with juggle.

I wish I could play you guys in MKDA. As shitty as the game is it'd be fun to chill with fellow MK fans.

mastermalone Wrote: I love all the fun stuff about MK as well but wouldn't it just be the icing on the cake if they suprised us and did incorporate some hard core play mechanics as well for the serious fighter fans? Just like Soul Calibur where a novice could pick up and play it and have fun but a true warrior gamer could master its more subtle techniques if they chose to do so. That my friends would be the ultimate unity for fun-lovers and gameplay buffs...and those people like myself who are fans of both worlds. Take care.

you mean a novice can bash buttons and win???ummm fuck no

HDTran Wrote: Mastermalone: Always respected you, still do. Just gotta comment on what you said though. 75% the characters in SF3 and 50% CvS2 are used, period. SF3 = Yun, Ken, Chun Li, Makoto, Dudley, Urien, Alex, Ibuki, Akuma, Yang, Ryu, Remy, Hugo, Twelve, and Necro. They are played in that order, all are top tier except Ibuki to Necro. However, the best Japanese players who play them compete with the best Yun's, Ken's, Chun Li's, Makoto's, etc. As for CvS2, with Roll Cancel making C-Groove and A-Groove better, it is now countered by K-Groove and P-Groove. A-Groove doesn't win big tourneys anymore, N-Groove was a thing of the past, but still some N-Groove Rushers. BTW, if any of you guys play on Xbox Live, CvS2 is changed dramatically and is nowhere near the character balance/usage as Im going to list. Note that the following list is based off best characters and most used. There are many characters people throw in that they are good at, but only a few players can do those characters and still win tourneys. Generally these characters are the likes of A-Yun, C-Morrigan, etc. C-Groove Chars: Sagat, Blanka, Cammy, Yamazaki, Chun Li, Guile, Ryu, Bison, Ken, Akuma, Maki, Eagle, Rolento, Iori, Kyo. A-Groove Chars: Sakura, Blanka, Bison, Sagat (for those people who don't really play A), Mai, Ken, Chun Li, Kim, Iori, Rolento, etc. P-Groove Chars: Kyo (he is a monster in P and K and the best), Geese, Rock, Yamazaki, Blanka, Sagat, Cammy, Haohmaru. S-Groove Chars: Useless for most part, but there are a few players that use Athena in this. N-Groove Chars: Akuma rushdown anyone? N-Groove players are mainly Akuma users. Iori is also good. Throw in Sagat or Blanka for last staple. Cammy is always good as well, and if using N, Yamazaki, Terry, etc. are great. K-Groove Chars: Same characters used as P. Right now P and K grooves are winning the big tourneys. World Tourneys, Nationals, Country, City-Wide, Bay, you name it. Of course most of the usage of more harder to use characters are all in Japan. As you can see: Sagat, Blanka, Cammy are good staples and all arounders. Just equate them to shotos as you did in other street fighters, the balanced staples. However, they are far from the best now as these characters are not as good in P and K Grooves.

I also respect you as well, by the way very nice post, very nice. I agree with you 110% with you post. In my reply I simply generalized the most common characters used in high level play due to being at work and being strapped for time so I had to limit my discription. But yes you are correct about the characters being played in that order. I've been a P groove user from day one despite the nay-sayers and you know that I don't to describe the look frustration on my opponents faces when I parry their ground attacks. The parry throws off their game entirely. .

I was only trying to bring to light the fact that all fighting games will have some characters that are the cream of the crop no matter what and we can expect the same with MKD. My only hope is that they don't make those canned combos have such a major influence in this game. That way we can get more enjoyment out of experimenting with the game to create our own combos in order to stand a better chance in a case of fighting top tier characters. Take care.

Sub_One-Niner Wrote: I think all of you guys are missing my point of this thread. I asked who here actually plays MK for deep gameplay. I never said MKD was going to have depth or even close. I think the main problem is that you "elitists" are trying to dissect this game to us "scrubs" too much. (No flamage intended).

When MK first came to the arcades, I was 15 yrs. old. I loved the game. I loved being able to pop quarters into the machine and fighting whoever else was around. I loved it for the gameplay, the competition, and the secrets(fatalities were secret to me at the time.) For 1992, I'd consider the multiple moves and special moves pretty deep for that time.

So, yes, I played it for its deep gameplay compared to other games at the time.

The times have changed, however. As, I continued to play video games and newer fighters, my skills grew with the lvl/depth of the video gaming industry. To me, the more I think while playing a particular video game, the more I enjoy it(especially in fighting games).

After playing and enjoying other 3d fighters and developing the mental capacity to think about multiple things at a time, it is hard for me to call MK:DA anything, but its 2d counterpart from years past. It has about the same number of moves it did(useful ones) and the same RPS combat. It has an updated look, a 3d enviroment, and helluva lot better graphis, but aesthetics aside, the gameplay has not changed that much.

I'm not askin' for an impossible fighter to play; just a good one that will challenge my mind and force me to be creative with the way I handle different opponents.

Sub_One-Niner Wrote: I, for one, won't dissect a game like that because I don't care about it that much. What may not be up to your standard for a fighting game might be a superb game to me simply because I'm not looking for the things that you're looking for. You "elitists" sound like people that go around playing in comps around the country which is cool. I, on the other hand, will sit at home or at a friends house and play a game against a buddy just for the fun of it. I won't try to break it down on so many levels. Like people say, "Ignorance is bliss".

I do not play in competitions, but have played fighters for many years and my friends have as well. So, we are not ignorant to how bad the gameplay is.

I am glad that you can enjoy it, but with the statement "Ignorance is bliss", I infer that you believe the game should just be made for the ignorant. There are alot of non-ignorant people on this board that love MK and would like to enjoy the gameplay more.

I'm sick of everyone saying they enjoy the simplicity. I have an idea for the ones that do. Lets slap an MK tag on the the game, have a slew of characters and bios, a kickin' opening sequence, unparalled fmv endings and fatalities for each character, and a hoard of different game modes.

Then, we can make the actual kombat a pong game. Sub-zero would be a blue paddle, scorpion a yellow one, etc. When you score 10 times against your opponent, it will cut to an awesomely, gruesome fatality fmv of your choice depending on which one you want to see.

At least then, all the characters would be balanced and you have the simple-minded game that you desire with plenty of fatalities, character stories, and xtras.

I for one want better gameplay. Deep gameplay doesnt have to be for experts only. Deep to me, means more gameplay options(and I dont mean gameplay modes, but actual fighting options) and the ability to compete with modern, 2004, 3d fighters, not 1992 ones. I dont want MK to become T, VF, or SC, but I want to enjoy it for its gameplay not for its fatalities and stories.(they are just xtra in my opinion)

I am still hopeful that MK:D will deliver this as I have yet to play it, but something tells me that it will not.

gouki_shangtsung Wrote: mastermalone Wrote: I love all the fun stuff about MK as well but wouldn't it just be the icing on the cake if they suprised us and did incorporate some hard core play mechanics as well for the serious fighter fans? Just like Soul Calibur where a novice could pick up and play it and have fun but a true warrior gamer could master its more subtle techniques if they chose to do so. That my friends would be the ultimate unity for fun-lovers and gameplay buffs...and those people like myself who are fans of both worlds. Take care. you mean a novice can bash buttons and win???ummm fuck no

Don't get it twisted... I am not a fan of button mashing. What I am a fan of is intuitive game play wich allows for creativity. Your response does not apply to my post.

Versatile Wrote: SubOneNiner(appologize for fucking your name up, but I don't feel like looking back to figure your name out) I can understand you don't play video games hardcore. I do, but even I know there is a life outside of this shit. You listening Saty?hahaa just playing, but really, I have friends, and I have a pretty normal life..just geeked up from being a fighting game freak. If anything I feel bad for you, because if you are going to play MKD online you will be in for a HUGE eye opener. I hope after you see what we are all talking through MKD online you can realize we're not trying to be jackasses. I can also appreciate you saying we know more about fighters than you do. Unlike the legions of MK fans here, you can admit things like this. Props to you for that. I wish I could play you guys in MKDA. As shitty as the game is it'd be fun to chill with fellow MK fans.

No, dude. I don't consider you guys jackasses at all. It's peeps like bOOgerman (or whatever the fuck his name is) that sit and do nothing except for talking shit about the game and the people that play it. That tends to make me irrate.

And I don't mind at all saying I don't know shit compared to some of the hardcore guys around here. I'm certainly not going to pretend like I do.

I guess my problem is the fact that I really haven't played alot of the other 3D fighters. I've rented Tekken Tag once. Played VF2 in the arcades a few times. That's it. Maybe if I was up around your guys' level, I'd have the same opinion. Who knows, maybe if I play this thing online, that by itself will change my opinion.

SleepWalKer Wrote: I am glad that you can enjoy it, but with the statement "Ignorance is bliss", I infer that you believe the game should just be made for the ignorant. There are alot of non-ignorant people on this board that love MK and would like to enjoy the gameplay more.

No dude, you missunderstood me. When I said that, I wasn't inferring that MK players are morons. On the contrary, reading the threads makes me think otherwise. What I meant is that for the people who don't know any better about using a fighting engine to its fullest, those people are "ignorant", I'll include myself in this group. They are "ignorant" of the fact that there's more to the game than they know, but since they don't know any better, they are happy with it.

Sub_One-Niner Wrote: No dude, you missunderstood me. When I said that, I wasn't inferring that MK players are morons. On the contrary, reading the threads makes me think otherwise. What I meant is that for the people who don't know any better about using a fighting engine to its fullest, those people are "ignorant", I'll include myself in this group. They are "ignorant" of the fact that there's more to the game than they know, but since they don't know any better, they are happy with it.

Aye, I see. But as stated, there are many of us that are not happy with it. We too are fans of MK, or we would not be here voicing our gameplay concerns.

After playing many matches with my friends/family, I realized that there were only a few moves that I needed to dispatch an opponent, and anything else I tried was useless. Everyone I played against, used the same style that I had developed, limiting there arsenal to only a handful of moves and they ended up waiting for the right opportunity to spring their biggest combo.

There was no need to adapt my style of play to someone else's. I used the same style all the time. If I can land the first hit of the combo, the whole combo hits. I just wait for the opportunity to arise and BAM... watch the life bar diminish. The only low attack I ever used was the most efficient.

I got to the point in the game where I saw the simplicity, and quit playing MK:DA very early after it was released. Many complained it got stale as well, but their reasons were lack of fatality options, or no stage fatals.

I don't believe this to be the case at all. Twice as many fatalities wouldn't have kept MK:DA in my PS2 any longer. It is the gameplay of fighting games that brings me back over and over again.

I will admit too, I am very ignorant to the issues that make it so unenjoyable, other than the lack of fighting options. I loved hearing about the frames, the move properties, etc. I thank the people here such as vers, HD, FLStyle, and Satya for all the great info. They have opened my eyes as to WHY I didnt like it compared to other fighters, and they obviously spent more time with it than I to be able to break it down that far. I'm kinda glad I didnt take it as far as I could, or I would have ended up seeing the cheese, the infinites, the autofollow. After hearing those, I realized it was worse than I had thought. And I thought it pretty horrid just because of its simplicity.

I may have missed other names as well, but you all know who you are.

My point is.. Yes, I'm going to use Tekken. Not because I want MK to be tekken, but to better relate what I mean about options. I starting playing Tekken with Law and learned his 10 hit dial-a-combo right away. Much like in MK:DA, I owned being able to dish it out when my opponent was defenseless. After playing for awhile, my best friend learned to block the whole thing after the first couple of hits... rendering it useless. So, I had to change my style of play, learn some other moves, and utilize them. One adaptation was doing the first couple hits of the combo than doing a throw while he was waiting to block the third. He caught on quick, and developed a low, powerful 3 hit strike to combat the beginning of the combo starter. So, I had to incorporate Law's flip kick to combat that low attack or severely get punished. As fights went on, we begin to be able to block, counter, or take advantage of each others style of play, forcing us to continue to mix it up and expand on what we already know. All said and done, and with tons and tons of moves at my disposal, we can play for hours on end.

Anyway, that to me is deep gameplay. Thinking about all possibilities in any situation. Not just focusing your whole kombat around a handful of moves. Granted I only list a handful above, but there are many many more, and I didnt want to write an essay on my learning experience with Tekken.... It would take forever. I only gave a brief description of the depth of Tekken, it goes much deeper.

I can play it for hours with the same character and no match ever comes out the same.
I have to play it differently against different characters, opponents, and styles.
Someone else can play with the same character as me, and not use any of the moves I use in my arsenal. As I watch them I think, "Wow, im incorporating that into my game"
In DA... "What was that? Your biggest combo? Yawn." I've already memorized those buttons.

That is the best way I can explain my disappointment with MK:DA. I can't say technically what is wrong with it, but I can feel what is wrong with it when I play. I guess that puts me in between scrub and elitist somewhere. I just don't know where. I want a label too.

And for the thread, I stick to my guns. I started playing MK for competition and fatalities, but as my gaming skills have grown, so, has my need for a MK with a deep fighting system. Deep doesn't have to be difficult. To me, deep means balanced, it means there are many fighting options in many different situations, and it is up to par with others of the genre and time period.

ooo nice post SleepWaLKer

One thing i'll say about MK or more specifically the current engine is it's juggling.

When you memorise the 10-hit combo's but the player knows how to block them they are rendered useless in Deadly Alliance, and unless the physics are changed then Deception as well.

But in (just using as an example, not saying i want mk t be like it)Tekken when you get the opponent airbourne, then do the 10-hit combo, its pretty effective, a lot of the moves hit while they are in the air and some while they are on the floor as well.

But in the next gen engine of MK you can't do that , when you get them in them in the air using a pop-up so have to use more pop-ups just to keep them airbourne and then it only lets you do 2 more.

Or you could happen to be player as a character capable of infinates, but i happen to think they are one of the most cheesiest things i've ever seen in a fighting game.

At the end of the day it depends on what you're allowed to do with different engines, I'm hoping Deception's with have more variety in that aspect, along with everything that's already been said.

Versatile: Thanks for the Sub info man, I haven't picked up DA for awhile and when I do, I really can't bring myself to play anyone besides Scorpion and Drahmin most of the time even though Sub-Zero is my favorite character throughout the games. Even though I still don't plan to use him in DA, hopefully in MKD he will be better, if not only for his ice clone letting him bait more. Anyways, I hope to lay some Subby down regardless, hehe.

mastermalone: ah, I know of those days. P-Groove is the shit btw =P I'm a K-Groove player with Kyo and a team that keeps changing besides him =P.



All I can say is I am hoping that their supposed improvements for MKD is gonna make it somewhat playable, that's all I ask.

Does anyone know if breakers will just be forward + block and will be dependent on attack heights/types or will it be universal for all attack heights and types, as soon as you get chained you can push away? Will it be constantly available or only available after some time? (ala Guilty Gear XX, Guilty Gear #Reload, etc. Burst's) Breaking inbetween chains also gives us the hope of breaking of stun inflicted by strings, which means that there are stun states right? Oh well, getting ahead of myself.

Cause if it's for Universal heights and for combos starting after the 1st or 2nd hit, man it's going to be a cheesefest even moreso since the best characters will be able to exploit their stuff while being safe and the bad characters will be destroyed because they aren't as safe and don't have as good of options.

Also the new blurb about juggles has me somewhat looking forward to the game more. Impressive juggles will mean a reason for me to just play it more now and then if the fighting system is unchanged and stale.

Yeah I too felt that way maybe a couple of weeks after playing through MKDA. I realized that it was more than likely unfinshed but could possibly provide a good backbone to a more developed game given the proper advice using Q&A from avid fighting game players. Unfortunately we all know that MKD will have those canned combos and I'm going to have to accept it at this point . But I hope that they have not only taken my advice when I went to the show this year about gameplay issues but also incorporate the fantastic play mechanics that HD, FLSTLE, ect. have pointed out that are missing.

I have been playing fighters since I was 16 years old back in 1990 and I've developed a strong sense of what is necessary for a technical fighter. MK has never really been a technical game and it saddens me to see these fantastic characters wasted on nothing more than showy speacial moves and fatalities. Maybe we will be suprised with some good news for MKD but if not oh well, I'll just play to find out the story...once again, and be left wanting more. Take care guys .

I never answered the original question, either, lol.

Do I play MK because of it's "deep" gameplay? No. Moving on...

Why do I play it? It's a matter of principal for me.

It's the typical story. MK was the first fighter I played, aside from SF, and one of the first VG's that sparked my love for the industry and the hobby. In a way, it's a big part of my gaming roots; I don't want to ever forget that.

Though, as SleepWalker said, you grow and mature. Not just because of age, but because of experience and drive. Concepts become easier to comprehend. Your way of thinking changes, you see things differently. MK never grew, it never really changed. Other fighters did grow, they grew as I did.

The very first time I played MK1 I picked Scorp, and dicked around like a noob mashing shit out. Yeah, I had a little fun doing so, even though the peeps standing around me were like wtf. Though, the more I played, the more fighters I played, I starting to become more competent. I gradually learned more, I gradually wanted to learn more and learn ways in which to exploit that knowledge.

A decade plus later I guaran-damn-tee that I have hellsa' more fun with deeper fighters. Hell, fighters that simply have something, anything to offer in terms of gameplay. This is because I've developed as a player, my wants and needs have changed. I have become less bound, since my boundries have increased. More can be taken in, more can be enjoyed.

I think Tony said something about how playing for fun doesn't really jive, it isn't consistent. I agree; because honestly, how do you truely know what's fun, until you truely understand deepth, perhaps just gameplay. Or have at least made a bold attempt at understanding and increasing your knowledge.

Please, don't take my words out of context. I'm not telling anyone how they should have fun, lol. All I'm saying is that this "I play for fun" argument goes DEEPER than many may think.

And the saddest part about it is they have nothing to say when it's all said and done. We(99%) finish these little "debates" then the thing dies. Then a week or so later some genius decides to create ANOTHER topic which is BOUND to lead into another argument. It's quiet sickening. I wish people would get the point.

I just got done playing T4. Man my Hwoarang is such ass. You know you suck when you can't be the beat best player in fucking New Jersey. Gotta work on my T4 common sense. Like not throwing out b+3 unless I know its gonna fucking launch! AHHHH!

What did I miss?
edit: lol oh man. This thread is another great one for the books. Sad, there's not b00gieman to lay it down hard but it was ok. HD brought some serious and vers finally comes back. I love this quote: "MENTHOL Wrote: 99% of MK fans aren't fighting game players. they have no clue what they're talking about. Hence why they like all that scrub shit like fatalities. Even if they were to complain about gameplay, they wouldn't know how. When there's 20 threads on the first page talking about Tanya's tits and one gameplay thread, of course Boon will and team will notice the scrubs and not that one thread about actual importance. "

Oh shit colguile in the house what what?

I think we should keep this topic alive for the sole purpose of chillin and talkin bout fighters and MK and shit. Or atleast to continue the good fight. It's kinda cool talking with facts and not having some scrub tell you elsewise with their fanboy coated opinions.

I am going to be emailing DAB and stuff, we'll see what we can do with this community, but if all else fails. I am going to talk with a few of my boys, and perhaps start our own little community on some other site or something. Me,Menth,TTT,FSL,HD,ColGuile,RS,Konqrr,etc,etc. Players who know what the fuck is going on and don't have to worry about fools. Then again, if MKD sucks too bad, there would be no point nonetheless.

I now know why MKL(who's better at MKDA than all of us combined) retired from MK. Can't say I blamed the guy. Bill may of been a bit weird, but he always spoke the truth, and was willing to help out. When rabid know nothings come out of nowhere telling you're shit is wrong, it makes you feel hopeless. Good luck with your fighting game career bill. Gimmie some of that tournament money.