Yeah same here. I don't see the big deal over this "issue". As long as people are happy with who they are with, It shouldn't make a difference who makes the first move.

If anybody has ever dated in the past you would know that when it comes down to sex the ball is always in the woman's court, if she wants to then she'll let you it's as simple as that.

This statement goes with the notion of a woman making the first move, which I support. For a guy it let's him know that she has interests in you and if you feel the same way then you can work on moving towards better things with that person.

People should start embracing the idea that we can all be mature and there should be no stereotypes or tradition when it comes towards courting someone. The fact of the matter is if you like somebody to the point where you can't stop thinking about them, whether you're a man or a woman, you're doing yourself a disservice for not acting upon it.

You are right.








The thing is I want to ask out a girl but I'm a little shy...
... and afraid.
She has gone through so many boyfriends and she is my best friend. I'm afraid she will say no and think of me as a freak or something.
What should I do?

Go for it dude. The worst thing she could do is say no.

Cliché(and so many movies and stories about it), but you might find that it works out for you and her. Or you might lose your best friend. Sadly, these things happen, you'll live , you'll learn and you'll move on.

Worst thing is never knowing, atleast in my experience. For the record, I lost a friend, for a while,...became friends later when she broke up with her then boyfriend, by then I was in a relationship of my own. Both realised were fine as friends.

People still posting in this thread. Cool.

I still don't think females should make the first move. To me it means that she is either lacking in the art of seduction, or just that much of an attention whore. I wouldn't associate myself with either kind of woman. I prefer a classy and subtle temptress.

As far as being a proper man, and being a crossdresser:
You have to understand that most of the time I live life as a man. The clothes are simply a special occasion fetish. To me a proper man provides for his lady, defends his lady, and treats women with respect. It doesn't matter what he's wearing while he does it.
Secondly because I do crossdress, I pay close attention to female mannerisms; how they dress, how they act, and how they carry themselves. I find that aggressive women (in the relationship sense) always have some kind of nasty agenda, usually that agenda is themselves, and they are very selfish people. In contrast quieter woman are more observant and in-tune with other people, and make for a much more supportive mate.

Why would a woman make the first move, unless she lacks the ability to attract a man?
Why would a man want a woman who doesn''t allow him to be a man in his approach to her?

Gentlemen a woman who makes the first move is setting out to control the relationship from the get-go. It's a very aggressive social manuever, if your the kind of man that doesn't mind being controlled then you may be able to accept this kind of woman, Me, I prefer my freedom, and I will fight valiantly for the woman good enough to let me have it.

I'm sort of done with responding to Zero because he obviously could give a shit about a viewpoint not his own and seems to revel in his hypocrisy.

To the young guy nervous about asking out his lady friend. My advice is to let her know how you feel early on (in a non-weird stalkery kind of way) because you definitely want to avoid the dreaded "friend zone". A good neutral date, especially for younger individuals, is to invite her or setup a situation where it's multiple people participating in something. Which is a long-winded way to plan to do something with your guy friends and then inviting along the girl and her friends. More people equals more comfort and makes the experience less imposing. Strangely enough, this continues to work as you get older as well.
Except hanging out at the mall/skate park/(whatever teenagers do) changes to meeting up with some friends at a restaurant, bar, cafe, etc.

Or man the hell up and just ask her out. They don't bite I swear.

My god, are you a complete idiot.

Women who make the first move are aggressive, mind-seeking, controlling sociopathic freak of a whore? And you say you understand women. No you fucking don't.

If a guy can't approach a girl, that's his problem. If a girl comes up to a guy and says, "I like you, would you like to date me?" They're known as an attention whore and a controlling mind freak?

Seriously, you're an idiot, I love how sexist you're acting in this thread and it's pissing me off. Women have a fair share in the relationship too you know. They're not always sandhich making kitchen lovers.

My boyfriend doesn't tell me what to do too much. He knows how much of a free will I have and he respects that. Sometimes, I'll do things for him I feel is right. He has a long day, comes home to a messy dorm and doesn't really have time to clean it up. So what do I do? During the days I spend the night and he goes to work the next morning, I spend my time cleaning it up for him, so that he doesn't fret over it when he comes back. I wash the dishes and put his clothes away.

Did he ask me at any time during the night before to do this? No, I did this because I'm a nice girlfriend, not because he ordered me to. I don't have to clean up his messes all the time. There are things I don't pick up all the time becuase I'm not going to clean his entire apartment, just the stuff I feel like needs to be cleaned up.

He does the same thing for me in return, and of course, I never told him he had to do that anyways. I don't do things because I'm ordered to. I don't make him food for him all the time. He's a big boy, he can get it on his own. Now, if he asks me and I'm in the mood to make it, I'll make something for him. But nine times out of ten, he makes his own food, because he's a big boy and doesn't need to command me to do something. He appreciates that I can take care of myself. Apparently, for any girl to just be nothing but a servant to their boyfriend, they're not a girlfriend. A man chooses and a slave obeys. How powerful that sentence is, is truly amazing because it implies to any kind of girl who just performs orders from their "boyfriend" are indeed servants.

If you think, at any time being, that a woman who asks out first is what you call a mind-controlling whore, seriously, stand in front of a gun barrel and wait for it to shoot off. Seriously. It's ridiculous to even write such a heinous thing.

Women are equals. This whole "Man is the breadwinner and the woman just cooks and cleans" is just ridiculous. That's a 1950's mindset and we are in the year 2012. Women should be treated like equals, not like they have to depend on a man.

Madam, you said those things. Not I. I never called anyone a whore, I never use that word toward anyone. It is unbecoming of a gentleman such as myself. Furthermore I said that I respect all women.

You seem to be implying that a woman who is domestically inclined is a slave. Again, that is your word not mine. I would never consider my girlfriend a slave. I consider the most important person in my life and I appreciate everything she does for me to the fullest extent.
A slave is someone who works against their will for nothing in return. My girlfriend CHOOSES to handle the domestic aspects of life, and in return I work hard to provide a place to live, food to eat, and anything else she needs or desires. I treasure her with all of my heart, and I would gladly give my own life to protect her. Her well being is my top priority in everything that I do and every decision that I make.

My own father was quite the opposite. A worthless man that did nothing to provide for my mother. Leaving her with 2 children to raise as she worked full time and put herself through college. I watched my own mother suffer through sleepless nights and grueling days. At the same time my sister and I were basically on our own and passed from babysitter to babysitter.

I decided that when I grew up, my wife would never endure the hardships that my mother lived through, and my children would be raised by their parents, not by a series of strangers,

Male chauvinism is a term used to describe the belief that men are superior to women.
I do not believe that men are superior to women. I believe that men are more naturally equipped to be providers, and women are more naturally equipped to be nurturers, and I believe that the feminist movement has created a society where women are now burdened with the task of maintaining a career in addition to taking care of a family.
I would much prefer a movement where men were encouraged to step the hell up and take care of their families. I am going to step up and take care of my family, and if that makes me a chauvinist so be it.





Pardon the shotty HTML code. The site needs to modernize its interface.

OK Ice, I feel like you didn't even read what I said.

What I think is messed up, is that you and many so-called "modern" women, champion the idea that a woman should have a CHOICE in what they do. However, when a fellow female CHOOSES a more domestically rooted lifestyle, you accuse them of living backwards, you characterize them as weak or enslaved, and you ridicule them for CHOOSING not to be career oriented.

So do you believe in CHOICE or do you believe in career oriented lifestyle?

Being a fetishist has nothing to do with this discussion. Its non-sequitur.

I read it and thought it was a joke. It literally is.

I never said that there's a choice, and I never have a problem with people staying home. However, the way you talk about girls, it's like if they don't feel comfortable with a stay home attitude and the guy works a hard shifting day, it's not a normal woman.

When you say things that women aren't allowed to make the first move because there's a horrible meaning to that, what am I supposed to think of you? That women aren't supposed to be superior than towards a man when it comes to asking out on a mere little date? I'm surprised that during the hours that I've spent doing this stop-motion project, I am able to conduct a conversation with a person who thinks that women who shows signs of being powerful is considered as an attention whore. Brilliant.

I guess when I was trying to ask that guy out during high school, my only reason to asking him out was so that I can be considered an attention whore. Me liking the guy had nothing to do with me asking him out.

I would have done so the same thing with my current boyfriend, sadly he beat me to it at the last minute.

I brought up your fetish thing because you said that when you wear dresses, you can feel what women are like. No you can't. No guy, no matter how much of a cross dresser, transexual, or drag queen that he can be, they will never, EVER be able to understand what it's like to be a woman. Reason being, you guys don't have eggs being developed and dying inside of you every single month. You don't have to undergo menopause and other woman related issues that we have to undergo. You guys don't get pap smears once a year, and I am fairly certain you guys don't pop out babies. So please don't tell me that you can feel what we're like by cross dressing.

And um, once you bring in something into a discussion board, it'll get talked about whether you want to or not. Maybe you shouldn't have brought your fetish thing into this conversation.

A career oriented lifestyle is someone's choice. It's their choice to do whatever they want. But no person, in their right mind, should direct a person where they should go with their life, at all. One person is in charge of a life and it is that person. Not their parents, not their significant other, not their friends or strangers. A person is allowed to make a choice whether or not it's a good one. But once you have someone refusing them that they can do this in life, then they're being controlled. If someone has to be forced to stay in the kitchen, providing food for their significant other while they're at work, then that's not a choice, that's a command and it's wrong.

If they choose to do that without someone saying anything, however, then I could care less about that.

It's absolutely not a joke to me. It is a way of life that I take very seriously.

The thread began with a man asking if a woman should make the first move. I never said that she couldn't, she absolutely has that right. However the kind of woman who would, is not the kind of woman that I would choose to date, or advise another man to choose to date.

You also misunderstand my fetish, I do not believe that I become a woman or have a deeper understanding, However, in developing my female character I watched real women. I watched how they behaved and where it got them, and how they responded to it. My observations lead me to the conclusion I arrived at, not a delusion that wearing a dress makes me a woman.
Also please note that I didn't bring the fetish to the discussion I think it was mojo66 but I didn't look back pages. I know it wasn't me that brought it here.

You also have a very clouded idea of how my girlfriend and I live. She isn't chained to the kitchen or anything like that. She does pretty much whatever she wants. She just WANTS to be a more traditional woman. I didn't force her into anything, rather I just waited until I met a woman who was naturally that way.,

And what you wrote pissed me off. It blew my mind out of proportion that someone would dare think that if a woman was to ask a man out, she'd be an attention seeker, not just "an ordinary girl who wants a date."

All the other issues that were brought up, fuck it. What I quoted though is what really aggravated me. I have no idea how a woman would deem to be a controlling psychopath all because she's the one doing the asking. That's not your kind of girl, fine, but to call anyone who asks guys out, seriously?

I'd like to have a controlling psychopath girlfriend.


Jesus I read too much manga.

. If a woman is pretty, and has an attractive personality a man will ask her out. Why wouldn't he? Thus she need not initiate.

The moral of this story, kids, is that bromance is gay.

Also, props to Zero for not swearing.

I feel that this video sums up how I feel about this thread pretty decisively.

Double Standard societies suck ass, people are forgetting that women are "HUMANS" too. If a women wants to ask out a guy, how the hell does that make them "Attention Seeking" or a "Controlling Psychopath"? How do you know she just doesn't "LIKE" him? Seriously?

A guy can still be the "dominant" gender in the relationship ,even if the women asks the guy out, if that's what y'all are referring to...

I've been asked out by women before, and it felt great knowing that i'm attractive to a someone, and i had no problem in saying yes.

There's one particular girl I went out with before, we had a normal heterosexual relationship, I would take her out to eat, go to movies, stuff like that.... OR.... If she wanted to take me out to go somewhere it would be fine. You know stuff like that. She would still be my girlfriend to this day. The only reason we broke up, is because she moved to Virginia, and we both agreed that, that kind of distance wouldn't work out.

Women can ask a guy out with no problem, it depends how the guy handles the situation.

Don't even sweat it Icebaby. I'm still not convinced Zero isn't just trolling. Anyone with any sense would agree with you . That's the beauty of the internet though right? People can regurgitate their dipshit ideas semi-anonymously over forums/comments without really trying to take part in a conversation.