wow awesome thread! just found it today! let me just say i love martial arts but sadly i never really got into karate, and the many other deadly forms. i got into kickboxing very heavily! and let me just say that kickboxing is alot harder then i thoought it would be! i kept doing splits everyday until i could touch the ground no problem and my god did that hurt! lol! anyway jean-claude van damme is my favorite martial arts actor and yes kickboxer and bloodsport are what got me into kickboxing! one more thing id like to ask everyone is that i have been looking for another form of fighting to take up! i feel i have gone as far as kickboxing will take me and i would like suggestions on what would be a good path for me to go down! thanks in advance!

Good stuff peoples, nice little list we got going there

I got a few photo's done at training that are relevant to some of the things I've talked about over the course of this thread. Mainly to show technique, partly to show I'm not full of shit and actually do know what I'm doing

Counter - The first is a takedown I mentioned earlier in the tread. Your gaurd stops their punch, and a simple push (back and up) to their chin will knock them over. The point in the photo is just before taking a small step in to finish the takedown. And as I mentioned, palming the face and gouging the eyes while throwing their head into the ground is obviously very disabling if you want to take it that far.

Palm take down.

Evade & Counter - Kicks obviously have a longer range than punches, and as you'd all know a majority of people only really know how to use their fists. If you look at my legs you can tell that if I were standing straight I'd have been punched in the face, but by simply leaning I've not only avoided the punch but set myself up for a clean strike at virtually wherever I want. I used a roundhouse to the exposed ribs in this instance, but the ways to use this opening are almost endless.

Fade Away

Flowing - This is one of countless examples of how to flow when using strike after strike (combo's if you want to think in videogame mode). This was right off the top of my head on the spot, not meant to be overly fancy or anything. This is in parts, so...

#1 - A simple and quick left jab to the face. Right hand/arm is gaurding face and ribs, and also plays a large part in the power of the punch. Remember the imaginary line from shoulder to shoulder, if you pull your right shoulder back and twist your torso a quick left jab can really do damage.

#2 - From there I would've used the opening the jab would've left to get a good shot into their body. I've pulled the left arm back into gaurd position which has done 2 thing; Covered up an opening and also added much more power to the punch. Think of the line from shoulder to shoulder again and you'll understand how it works hopefully.

#3 - Next is a right hook kick. My left foot was back after the body blow putting me in the perfect stance to throw a hook kick. The weight has once again shifter from shoulder to shoulder, using the pull back of my right shoulder to get more power from the kick and also spin into it quicker than usual. Note - Most people take their back foot to the front first when throwing a hook kick, I taught myself to cut out the step and just throw it without changing my footing.

#4 - Right foot landed and straight away I threw a right roundhouse at about head height. Landing from the right hook kick my weight was more on my right shoulder, throwing it to my left shoulder added way more power to my roundhouse. I'll try to explain it a little better... Throw your left shoulder away from your target while throwing your right shoulder towards your target, the kick will flow very naturally this way.

Flowing.

Visual aids work wonders for explaining stuff, I think

I'm going to encourage other people to post pictures again, too. None of the us are past the point where we can't learn anything off eachother, so let's do just that.

SUBZILLA Wrote: wow awesome thread! just found it today! let me just say i love martial arts but sadly i never really got into karate, and the many other deadly forms. i got into kickboxing very heavily! and let me just say that kickboxing is alot harder then i thoought it would be! i kept doing splits everyday until i could touch the ground no problem and my god did that hurt! lol! anyway jean-claude van damme is my favorite martial arts actor and yes kickboxer and bloodsport are what got me into kickboxing! one more thing id like to ask everyone is that i have been looking for another form of fighting to take up! i feel i have gone as far as kickboxing will take me and i would like suggestions on what would be a good path for me to go down! thanks in advance!

Kickboxing is pretty much an external uh...i guess it's a martial art...in a way.
Anyway, it depends what you're after. If you're looking for something you may feel comfortable with, try another external style. Perhaps karate or tae kwon do?

If you're looking for a contrast, go with an internal style, though it may feel a little weird coming from a kickboxing background to jump into say, hapkido.
Sorry i can't be more specific, maybe other users could be more help here.

I'm not sure if the topic of hand conditioning has risen in this thread, i sort of skimmed through the first few pages before i posted in it, and couldn't seem to find anything on it.
Anyway, what do you make of conditioning the hands? is there any specific part of the hands one shouldn't attempt do harden? Will conditioning the fingers eventually cause problems later on? ect.

Good stuff, Forevergrey.

Subzilla: Like Krackerjack said, if you want to try another external Martial Art, try maybe Karate, TKD, or maybe Wrestling. If you want to try an internal style, why not Aikido or Tai Chi? Welcome to the thread, btw.

Krackerjack: good idea to talk about hand conditioning, i myself don't know much about that. Anyone?

Deathscepter: i'm talking about huge morons. Like look at me i'm a ninja!* does a half assed front kick at knee level* (reminder: this was a karate dojo...) Well ninja, can you kick yourself in the head real hard? Yes i can!! *knocks himself out*
And i'm not kidding either...

Well i don't have a digital camera ready, but i can say that something that works abnormaly often against most people is to duck/deflect their attack, move behind them, and wrap an arm around their throat while hitting with the palm in an upwards arc in the lower back. That leans them backwards, and you can:

1: continue pulling backwards and floor them(if it's just a friendly bout or just fooling around.)

2: proceed repeatedly punching the kidneys(not so friendly.

3: Choke them to...whenever you wanna stop.

4: Last i know, personal favorite, knee upwards in the lower back, and elbow downwards in the solar plexus at the same time.

Most people tend to grab your arm with both arms when you choke them, thus you get the openings. But you gotta act fast.

That's all for now...

well cyberwolf i already have done wrestling in my highschool. but i think i will try karate. thanks for your guys help. any pointers you guys could give me?

SUBZILLA Wrote: well cyberwolf i already have done wrestling in my highschool. but i think i will try karate. thanks for your guys help. any pointers you guys could give me?

It's Cyborg_wolf.
Shit, you already done that...
What kind of pointers do you want? Anti mcdojo pointers?

Oh yeah, i forgot to mention that if the teacher claims to be a Jedi, an ex CIA/Spetsnaz/anyother super secret service and/or claims to be able to knock other people out from 5 yards away, you should run. Fast. The curse of the mcdojo approaches...

i will b sure to watch out for anyone who tries to act like that!

Do dojos in your area offer free trial sessions? like train 1 or 2 times just to see if you like it?

Hey, i'm looking to learn a few basic throws, since that is kind of a weakpoint for me.
Do any of you guys know some simple throws to start out with? Or joint locks?

Just wanted to add that i got a chance today to try Cary Hiroyuki-Tagawa(Shang Tsung) a little bit myself, water training. Results are interesting, it really does use different muscle groups and buyoancy and resistance combined make a pretty fun way of practice. I did'nt get the chance to try thouroughly, since at some point, i had to consider eating, but it was interesting nonetheless.
That would be all.

YEAH AWESOME THREAD !! Just found it today...

I have a question for all you martail artists...
Ying Yeung is a new fighting style in Deception... I searched on the net infos on it.... but i found nothing...

I would like to know the origin and the essence of Ying Yeung, if it really exists !?!

Welcome to the thread. Nice avatar.
I'll search for yingyeung on the web in about 16 hours. Right now it's 01:05 where i am, and i'm tired.

YingYeung Wrote: YEAH AWESOME THREAD !! Just found it today... I have a question for all you martail artists... Ying Yeung is a new fighting style in Deception... I searched on the net infos on it.... but i found nothing... I would like to know the origin and the essence of Ying Yeung, if it really exists !?!

Well from what I gather this "Ying Yeung" style is of Southern origin. I found that it could be of Choy Li Fut or Hung Ga origins. The pages that I visited referenced "Yeung" yo the concept of "yang" opposite "yin". This could mean that the style is aggressive meaning that it is a "hard style" opposed to a soft style. I found that "ying" means eagle, but also represents the five animals system. The fact that there is no concrete info on the style could mean that it's not widly tought by itself.

I think it could be a sub-style taught within the Hung Ga or Choy Li Fut system, but I really couldn't nail down a definitive hit on it. Perhaps Sub_Zero_7th may have an idea of what is it since his studies are more varied than what google or Yahoo can reveal. However, I do sense that it's a southern style and if it is of eether system, I suppose we can expect that the attacks alternate from high to low with dragon, tiger, eagle techniques.


GD

Hand conditioning is one of my biggest weaknesses. After about 5 strikes each hand on a pad, my knuckles are bleeding. Anybody got any tips?

As one of the black belts in my class stated when I first started there: "Martial arts are almost like a commodity nowadays - pay enough money and you will get your black belt in 3 years".

Hence the whole mcdojo syndrome stated above. As a student, I can't afford to pay anything more than $5 a session, and the groups we have here on campus are really good. They are not in it for the money, and as a result, they will tell you if you are sucking in not so many words.

That's all I ask for from my instructors: tell me where I am going wrong and how to improve, then show me how to do it. Having your instructor blow sunshine up your glutumus maximus will only inflate your ego, and detriment your fighting, not improve. I have seen many a people come back from training sessions and be like: "My instructor said I'm the next Bruce Lee!" and then see them throw a helicopter punch.

So, how is everyone doing?

I don't know about everyone else, but i'm fine thank you.
Hand/knuckle conditioning? Shit, i'm not too good at conditioning, mainly cause i've never really had a problem with my knuckles. Can you do knuckle push ups? That's kind of conditioning.

Bajar Wrote: Hand conditioning is one of my biggest weaknesses. After about 5 strikes each hand on a pad, my knuckles are bleeding. Anybody got any tips? As one of the black belts in my class stated when I first started there: "Martial arts are almost like a commodity nowadays - pay enough money and you will get your black belt in 3 years". Hence the whole mcdojo syndrome stated above. As a student, I can't afford to pay anything more than $5 a session, and the groups we have here on campus are really good. They are not in it for the money, and as a result, they will tell you if you are sucking in not so many words. That's all I ask for from my instructors: tell me where I am going wrong and how to improve, then show me how to do it. Having your instructor blow sunshine up your glutumus maximus will only inflate your ego, and detriment your fighting, not improve. I have seen many a people come back from training sessions and be like: "My instructor said I'm the next Bruce Lee!" and then see them throw a helicopter punch. So, how is everyone doing?

And yeah, good point.
What is a Glutumus maximus?

Knuckle push-ups? Nah, I battle to do regular push-ups.

Glutumus Maximus = arse

Yej, now i know a new word!
I was thinking, would you people share your best training memories? Like the funniest, stuff like that.
One of the best times i had was at an allout sparring session, it was everyone against everyone, but no serious contact. Anyway, one of my friends, measuring approximatively 5 feet, rushed at me from my right side, and he screamed for fun: Here comes the man!
I was not aware of him until he screamed that, i feel rushed, so i sidekick in his general direction, but i can't look over there since i'm attacked from the front too. I feel contact, and at the rush of the moment, i scream: Here GOES the man!
He had been kicked away approximatively 4 feet, and had a hard time breathing, but he just could'nt stop laughing at the ludicrous of the situation. Neither could anyone who had witnessed the whole thing...
We both laughed at the thing for like 2 days after that.
Anyone else?

Thank you dude!!!!!!

ghostdragon Wrote: YingYeung Wrote: YEAH AWESOME THREAD !! Just found it today... I have a question for all you martail artists... Ying Yeung is a new fighting style in Deception... I searched on the net infos on it.... but i found nothing... I would like to know the origin and the essence of Ying Yeung, if it really exists !?! Well from what I gather this "Ying Yeung" style is of Southern origin. I found that it could be of Choy Li Fut or Hung Ga origins. The pages that I visited referenced "Yeung" yo the concept of "yang" opposite "yin". This could mean that the style is aggressive meaning that it is a "hard style" opposed to a soft style. I found that "ying" means eagle, but also represents the five animals system. The fact that there is no concrete info on the style could mean that it's not widly tought by itself. I think it could be a sub-style taught within the Hung Ga or Choy Li Fut system, but I really couldn't nail down a definitive hit on it. Perhaps Sub_Zero_7th may have an idea of what is it since his studies are more varied than what google or Yahoo can reveal. However, I do sense that it's a southern style and if it is of eether system, I suppose we can expect that the attacks alternate from high to low with dragon, tiger, eagle techniques. GD

I have not found dip shit on Ying Yeung, but i did find something on hand conditioning though, take into consideration that it's a cut out from an article, and mor directly related to iron palm, but i thought, what the heck, i'll "Ctrl+c, Ctrl+v" it anyway.
The key point about hand conditioning is *go slow* and don't overdo it. If you are training by yourself without guidance by an experienced sifu *go even slower*! The line between strengthening the hands and injuring or deforming them from repeated trauma is a fine one. This is especially true for impact exercises. If you overdo it, you may impair the mobility and dexterity of your hands and set yourself up for later problems such as arthritis from joint inflammation, etc. Even for martial arts, using the hand to grasp is at least as important as using it for striking. Loss of hand sensitivity will impair both ordinary daily activities (e.g., writing, picking your nose) and your martial arts.

I believe that ordinary western methods of strengthening the hands without impact exercises will go a long way towards developing an iron palm. These include the various hand grippers and squeezing exercises. I also recommend strengthening the forearms and wrists with wrist rollers, etc. Finger pushups are OK if approached slowly and progressively. The key point about hand conditioning for iron palm is that strengthening involves more than an increase in muscle strength. Sinews, tendons, ligaments, and fascia must be strengthened and this is a slower process than building muscle. Bone density will also increase from a regimen of exercise continued over a long period. The process of strengthening consists of the stimulus of training followed by time for recovery and response - be sure to leave sufficient time between training sessions or you will tear down rather than build up.

The impact methods include thrusting and striking. Thrusting consists of plunging the extended hand into a bucket of granular material. The bucket is supported on a sturdy low table or bench (a bit more than knee height). The granular material can include a progression through a mixture of black and green peas, BBs, gravel, marbles, iron filings, and ball bearings. I personally think the peas are good enough - they also seem to be easier on the skin leaving a "soapy-feeling" residue. (Avoid iron filings. Despite iron's association with the technique's name, filings really tear the skin up and slivers stick in, etc. Some fanatics even heat the iron. That isn't training - it's masochism!) The thrust is performed downwards with the wrist straight, the fingers together, and the thumb tucked alongside (somewhat like a karate nukite strike). After the strike the fingers are curled closed as a resistance exercise. At first the thrusts need not be full speed or powerful - slowly build up to it. Traditionally the technique is performed in a horse stance. (Just a tip. Sweep up afterwards. If the little peas, ball bearings, etc. get scattered about, they hurt like hell when stepped upon in bare feet.)

If you have access to dit da jow, use it according to instructions. The hype is that dit da jow, will soothe the skin, prevent or relieve bruises, relieve congestion, prevent blood clots, and even toughen and harden the skin, sinews, and bone. Maybe.
And a little more:
I should add one item to the previous installment regarding hand conditioning. As thrusting training continues, separate the fingers a bit rather than keeping them in the nukite position. In fact, sometimes hyperextend the fingers when thrusting. This helps to strengthen the finger extensors, an often underdeveloped small muscle group. When doing this, some people find it helpful to think in terms of chi flowing from their fingertips. Finger extension or flowing chi - pick whatever explanation suits you.
Actually, the whole damn site is kinda interesting, kind of like a link database. I don't know, somewhere in it's deepest corners, there maybe info about Ying Yeung Click here if you wanna see.

Thanks for that snippit on hand conditioning, though i think i pretty much knew most of it. However one can never have enough knowledge, right?
If anybody has anything else on the matter it'd be greatly interested in reading it.

krackerjack Wrote: Thanks for that snippit on hand conditioning, though i think i pretty much knew most of it. However one can never have enough knowledge, right? If anybody has anything else on the matter it'd be greatly interested in reading it.

well do u do alot of work with ur hands? like do u work outside and in the yard? i mean if u work inside somewhere not using ur hands outside in the elements. u might have what my father would call "counting money hands" instead of man hands! anyway what im saying is maybe u should do yardwork more and let ur hands start to get tough from working out in the elements!

o and cyborg i went to a couple of trial classes for karate and it was ok but i didnt feel challenged at all! do u or anyone else for that matter have any ideas?

SUBZILLA Wrote: well do u do alot of work with ur hands? like do u work outside and in the yard? i mean if u work inside somewhere not using ur hands outside in the elements. u might have what my father would call "counting money hands" instead of man hands! anyway what im saying is maybe u should do yardwork more and let ur hands start to get tough from working out in the elements! o and cyborg i went to a couple of trial classes for karate and it was ok but i didnt feel challenged at all! do u or anyone else for that matter have any ideas?

Heh i get what you're saying.
My father works a lot with bricks and blocks, and occasionaly i do some work with him. Thats about as "outdoorsey" and harsh as you could get with all the cement and cold hard sharp brick. Good idea though, maybe i should just do some more work with him.

Well, that's interesing ways of hand conditioning, indeed.
How about my old method: repeatedly punching an oak (you know, the tree.)or a wall, or something in that order I used to do that a lot before, but now i don't have any oaks around