I'm looking forward to Watchmen also....nice to see you again Alpha.

I'm not really sure what this thread is trying to accomplish exactly... Dr. Manhattan is the idea of what a bad super hero is and that's it (he's completely unstoppable, no weakness, nothing at all). Yeah, he's awesome, but he's just perfect, impossible to relate to, and no hero can compare to him with regards to powers. Xel said it already, Dr. Manhattan is the exact definition of what a God should be.

Yeah, on the average scale, but when it comes down to Phoenix's full potenial, she's virtually indestructable.

Wonder Woman's the same way in comparison to Superman, that's why I'm so pissed that she was defeated by Scorpion. Scorpion! Come on!

....Hey, he is the champion of the elder gods....or something.

I must admit to not knowing a damn thing about the watchmen, but am eagerly awaiting the arrival of my graphic novel before I go see the movie.

So is Galactus for example and Thanos. Hell, Galactus is essentially one of the basic principles of the Marvel existence like Death.

Death is awesome, but I don't think an untangible being such as herself can be compared at all. She's an inevitable force, man. Galactus is sort of the same way. He's pretty much the universe itself. Thanos sucks, imo.

I'm well aware of what it means, thanks for that detailed write up but I get it.

Like Blurs said, I haven't read the GN yet but the trailers have raised my curiousity.

Just curious though, since there's about 4 to 5 different "definitions" of what a "God" is. In this case however, you're talking along the lines of "Supreme ruler or ultimate reality/A Being or object believed to have than natural attributes and powers. Eternal.

Ever hear the term Godlike?

@Blurs yeah, you're right I haven't read it yet so obviously there's things I'm unaware of but just read some basics concerning these characters. But I do wish to learn more about them. I have heard one thing though from quite a few people. Overall, Dr. Manhattan isn't a "bad" guy but more along the lines of "good/neutral" from most people generally speaking. But I do want to check him out more myself.

Another thing I keep hearing from friends who've read the GN is that the ending sucks but they altered it for the movie....

Look, my point was, that when I said Manhattan is "God", you responded with "So is Raiden." Which led me to believe that you didn't know the difference between Manhattan's being God, and Raiden's being a god.

So, here's the difference:

Raiden: "A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality."

Raiden controls lightning and doesn't age. He can be killed, injured, isn't all knowing, etc.

Manhattan: "A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions."

Get it?

And yes, I'm aware of the term 'Godlike.' But we're talking about fictional 'gods' here.

I'm enjoying reading this thread.

These are a bunch of examples to show you why we keep telling you that Dr. Manhattan is God...

If that doesn't scream "absolute supreme being that can do anything he wants" and also scream "God" then there's no hope for you.
Dr. Manhattan is the very definition of what a true God would ever be, and not "god-like". Superman, Hulk, Phoenix, and Silver Surfer are god-like, but until any of them can turn sand into glass, then into water, then into milk, they will never be the equivalent to Dr. Manhattan.

I always see him as either "godlike" or "a god".

He is not God. He didn't create the universe and everything. He is not the one who keeps an all-seeing eye over humanity. He is not the one who supposedly gave Moses the 10 commandments. He is not the father of Jesus, etc...

He is a person who has such power, but he isn't "God" as most would know him.

Well, Dr Manhattan was created as what a Superhero would be in the real world, all powerful, praised all around, feared by others, and completely godlike. This has been explained, what I don't get is how having his intristic field removed made him...that.

hulk is strongest one there is.

Yup. He isn't an Abrahamic "God", didn't create the univers or watch over it but essentially is omnipotently powerful and can pretty much do ANYTHING he wants to.

Given Moore's own opinions on religion, and the general nature of Watchmen, its possible that universe didn't have a 'God' until Manhattan.

I hope to A god that you're not picking on the fact I didn't put the precious "a" when calling Dr. Manhattan "God". Does the distinction need to be made? I mean, honestly, the point of my argument was that he can do whatever he wants, and you're focusing on my denoting him as "God" instead of "A God"? Seriously, there is no need to make sure to distinguish between the "Abrahamic God" and Dr. Manhattan; anybody who needs that kind of clarification when one is making the comparison is a moron.

I'd do it.


I wonder how Dr. Manhattan would fare against the Celestials or Darkseid. I think Darkseid would get thrashed, but i'm not too sure about the Celestials.

One would assume such a distinction would be made, considering how specific everyone is getting.

Understandable, but like I said, if one needs to get that specific when identifying a comic book character and a religious deity with millions of followers, they truly are morons. You cannot always assume everyone is stupid.

#1 The exception to the rule would be a Biblical comic book.

#2 I always assume people are stupid unless the show me otherwise. Perhaps too much time spent at Wal-Mart has lowered my expectations of humanity's potential to think for itself and to be somewhat active in the "brain" area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw

Actually, the thing about Dr. Manhattan is that he is neither good nor evil. Good and evil are, for the most part, human conditions... and thanks to his new state of being, Dr. Manhattan is both more and less human. Morality doesn't even enter into it for him anymore, because he sees more and can do less. Let me clarify by somewhat correcting an example given...



Not quite. Imagine there's a man who is living in 2000, and suddenly can see into the future. The events of the next ten years are there in his mind, just as if they were his memories. He can see September 11th. He can see Katrina/Rita. He can see the London subway attacks. He can see the Mumbai terror attacks. He can see Abu Graihb.

... and with that knowledge, he also gains the knowledge that the future is immutable and cannot be changed.

So, in essence, he knows all of this suffering and misery is going to happen... but he also knows there's nothing he can do about it. So, he stays quiet because he knows there's no point. He can't change the future, and no matter what he does those people are going to be hurt and die anyway.

As Dr. Manhattan explained, "We're all puppets. I'm just one who can see the strings."

That's the paradox... he's the most powerful character in the world, and also the least able to change things that he sees. He's not good or evil, because his perceptions are not ours. He's... just outside.

Hope this helps...

For a moment I thought this "Dr Manhattan" was Seth from SFIV lol

The future isn't 'immutable.' I mean, the future entails all the physical reactions that have yet to occur. An outside observer (Manhattan) could change any of those reactions and thus totally change the course of future events.

Then again, that's only in this reality. General laws of this Universe don't exactly apply in Watchmen so, yeah, my initial argument wasn't totally valid.

When I say a God is a God, I mean it in the sense of "God=all powerful being" nuff said. I can see why this guy compared Dr. M to Superman, Phoenix etc because they're like "godlike" characters but aren't actual "Gods" per-se unlike Raiden. The difference. We heard the same things with MKvsDC and the "Raiden vs. Superman" debates...

Raiden is a God and all powerful, so is Dr. M. neither can actually be "killed" for good.

BTW, you're a little off on Raiden. He can't die technically because he'll just reform like he did in MKD, thus he's an immortal God. Much like Dr. M written by that link I posted by the user. Apparently even if you kill him, he can come back/heal himself.

So I really don't think it's accurate to say "Raiden can die" since he does the same thing he just may go differently about it. His "energies" reform, he's ageless, eternal, forever. You do not kill that. You may take him out/defeat him "temporarily" but that's not equivalent to actually finishing him off for good. As in die. See what I'm saying?

No one in one Mortal Kombat dies. Ever.