FIGHT: ScrewAttack Death Battle - Thor versus Raiden!

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GodlyShinnok

@GodlyShinnok

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•12/03/2012 10:39 PM (UTC) •

Not a single character in MK gets close to the level of the ridiculous power of a comic book character. Try again when someone like Liu Kang can at least destroy a planet.

lastfighter89

@lastfighter89

•12/03/2012 11:42 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

lastfighter89 Wrote:
we never saw Raiden in a situation where "lifting the entire world" is necessary, so you cannot know if Raiden can or cannot lift up the entire world.

Dude, get some perspective. Anyone even half that strong would be able to crush a vanilla mortal in a single punch. Thor and Superman can knock people out by flicking them on the nose.

Raiden has to hit people a whole bunch of times to knock them out just like anybody else in the MK tournament. His mortal form is strong, strong enough to make someone explode with an uppercut if he pauses to gather it all up...but not strong enough to lift up even, like, a building. And the Earth is WAY heavier than that.

Raiden vs. Johnny Cage or Sonya is almost a fair fight. So there's NO way he's anywhere close to a cosmic-tier comic book character in punching power. He'd be lucky if he's a tie with Colossus or The Thing...

lastfighter89 Wrote:
As someone else mentioned Raiden and Thor are basically the same thing, with different names.

In the MK universe, "Thor", "Zeus", and "Haokah" are different names Raiden went by when interacting with different cultures, yes.

But Marvel Thor is clearly not Raiden. He comes from a different world. A world where gods are WAY WAY stronger.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
Thor cannot time-travel nor altering time flux.

Actually, Thor CAN time travel.

Or he could in the Silver Age. He gave up that power at some point, I forget why, had something to do with Kang the Conquerer I think, but that's neither here nor there.

Point is, Mjolnir can open portals to other dimensions, which is Thor's main means of accessing the Rainbow Bridge to get from Earth to Asgard, and he used to be able to do time portals with it too.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
Raiden is a better hand to hand fighter.

Batman is a way better hand to hand fighter than Superman, but if Batman doesn't have Kryptonite, Superman's going to splatter him across the countryside in a single blow.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
Raiden is not killed during armageddon, not explicitally. Thor gets killed.

So? Raiden IS killed in Deception. He comes back.

And it should be noted that in MK, a god doesn't come back the same. They're supposed to be truly reincarnated with no memory. Deception Raiden came back wrong and retained his memory but his personality changed because his soul got tangled up with Shang and Quan's on their way to the afterlife and some of them rubbed off on him.

Marvel Thor, unlike Mythological Thor, can also come back. In Marvel, Ragnarok doesn't happen only once, it's a repeating cycle. Thor has been through multiple Ragnaroks where he died and later came back.

So they BOTH have the power to reincarnate.

I don't see what this has to do with fighting though. It doesn't matter if you can come back when you die, the fight is over when the fight is fucking over. If you come back to life later, then you can start a SECOND fight.

But Raiden will lose that fight too because Thor can STILL punch a billion times harder than Raiden can.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
Thor is more popular than Raiden and usually the most popular wins, not the strongest.

That's just being a sore loser, dude.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
I consider Raiden to be actually stronger, or even, of Thor

Well that's just plain not true. Raiden has to punch normal people repeatedly to knock them out.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
In the Greek Mythology Atlas lifted up the world, but he was far away to be strongest warrior, so being that strong deosn't mean your the strongest, not by far.

Well Hercules was as strong as or stronger than Atlas since he held the world for him once. And in Marvel, Thor and Herc are in the same weight class.

Again, these are people who can put a regular person down with a flick to the nose.

Raiden, in the mortal form he fights with, cannot compete with punches that generate that much force.

lastfighter89 Wrote:
Spider Man (cheating), Hulk and even Fantastic Four have defeated Thor in a fight; most of them are not even god or have god-like powers.

Well Hulk is even stronger than Thor is. It's not an exaggeration when he keeps shouting "Hulk is strongest one there is." Y'know...depending on how angry he is.

But Spider-Man and the F4 didn't really fight him to the death straight up, they used their brains to capture or incapacitate him. That's not what this is. This is two people punch and kick each other until one is dead. And in a scenario like that, Thor would definitely beat Spider-Man or any of the Fantastic Four except maybe Sue, depending on whether or not she can make a bubble inside his body and pop his organs, but his organs may be stronger than her force-of-will or whatever you wanna call it that she puts into her force fields.

She could also just make a bubble around your head until you suffocate...but I'm pretty sure Thor doesn't actually breathe.

1)Thor would kill with a SINGLE BLOW a normal human being or some minor super-powered, but when he faces the likes of Loki, Hulk and many other he needs WAAAAY more of a punch or hammer hit to win the match.
We never saw Raiden fighting against "common people" or "average Joe" or "John Doe", but he fought the likes of Shao kahn, Shinnok, Deadly Alliance and so on. All of them need more than a burp in the face to be taken down,

2) Again, we don't know if Earth ever needed to be lifted. Don't forget that in MK realms are just parrallele dimension, not physical worlds, like planets.
Being just a "dimension", perhaps Earth doesn't even need to be lifted up at all. In that case is still to be seen. All I can say about Raiden is that he blown himself up, destroying the immortal mummified army of Onaga.

3) After his fight against Sonya, Raiden was not even wounded, not even a single mark or bounce in the face. This mean that he just played with Sonya in MK story Mode, he allow her to win. In a real fight to death Sonya, Cage and even liu Kang stand no chance of victory. The only ones who defeated Raiden in a battle for life are Quan Chi & Shang Tsung (togheter and using "deception") and Taven, of course.
He even defeated a Elder God, Shinnok, and Elder Gods are Omnipotent, considering that they created life, universe and reality in the MK mytho.

4)hmmm, no. In the Marvel Universe the Nords Gods are just different beings from a different dimension. Even Odin was defeated more than once. And Loki was defeated by Human beings tto iron Man and Cap).

5) Wait a moment...time travleing is a point you've taken, I admit. But what about Time-altering? Which is different. I mean, Raiden could rewrite the story in a totally different way. People that were rescued died, while others survived or turned into a cyborg. I've never seen Thor changing the course of events.

6) That's because Batman is a common human being. Raiden is not human, and the same goes for many MK characters. In MK vs DC Superman could not defeat Raiden, even in the last chapter when he had full power.

7) hmmm, no. It's not explicitally stated if Raiden's change for the worse was due of Shang and Quan's influence on his soul. Actually, before being killed, Raiden's eyes turn back to blue, hinting that he was "good" again.
Raiden become ruthless after finding out that Shujinko was responsible of Onaga's return, so he turns bitter on humankind.

8) All I see is blind fanboysm, sorry. Raiden is not a human being, so Thor would need a lot more of raw power to defeat Raiden. Superman couldn't defeat Raiden, but in the Marvel vs DC crossover Superman defeated Hulk.
In the DC Universe usually Superman is stronger than Shazam and Hulk, but he got even with Raiden. I assume that Raiden is as strong as Superman.

9)Hulk has been defeated several times, by Superman once. And again, Raiden drew with Superman. In order to defeat somebody you don't need to use ONLY brute strenght. You can use your brain or planification in order to score the victory, After you have trapped or incapacitated Thor, he can get his a$$ kicked.

BIG_SYKE19

@BIG_SYKE19

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•12/04/2012 01:01 AM (UTC) •

rune king thor

ThePredator151

@ThePredator151

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•12/04/2012 01:42 AM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Raiden has to hit people a whole bunch of times to knock them out just like anybody else in the MK tournament. His mortal form is strong, strong enough to make someone explode with an uppercut if he pauses to gather it all up...but not strong enough to lift up even, like, a building. And the Earth is WAY heavier than that.

Raiden vs. Johnny Cage or Sonya is almost a fair fight. So there's NO way he's anywhere close to a cosmic-tier comic book character in punching power. He'd be lucky if he's a tie with Colossus or The Thing...

Yea but, that's the split hair here. They both have 2 forms; Mortal and God. Thor isn't shit without his hammer...same is true during the MK tournament concerning Raiden and his mortal form.

Thor without his God stuff is essentially the same as Raiden during the tournament. They're both above average humanoids but, no where near the extent of their potential max capacity.

Not that it's not a fair fight. Raiden is better hand to hand than Thor. But, even in mortal form, Thor is still extremely strong without his hammer. So...flip the coin around on the original fight here, and say; Thor without his hammer vs Raiden in celestial form, who would win? Answer: Celestial form Raiden would murder mortal form Thor. It would be just as absurd to argue Thor would win that fight, as it is to argue Raiden is too weak to stand a chance in this current fight.

That's also why I originally said we're talking about the same personality. Except maybe different times during their eternal life-span. All of it is mythology... but MYTHS about a similar personality with similar characteristics almost always has one source. The similarities between them are striking enough (they even share the same weapon, powers, and names at times) that, I don't doubt we're talking about the same God of Thunder & Lightning who has had a profound affect on the people he has influenced in one way or another.

To draw a line down the middle of the two of these characters based on commonalities, one could conclude that Raiden/Rajin/Thor/Haokah is the same being. One who spent a decent amount of time in different places having similar reactions in combat to different conflicts he faced while in each place.

What might be interesting to see is if NRStudios entertained this thought and, when it came to Raiden vs Shinnok (circa mk4's storyline backdrop) and his whole "War on the Heavens," that they finally allowed us to see Raiden in the light of one of Thor's known greatest stories. One where...idk...Raiden was finally seen in celestial form battling. Maybe he has to lift the weight of the world, time travel, ect, etc, etc. All the stuff Raiden can't do in mortal form, we finally get to see him do it. Naturally, since they're extremely similar anyway...Raiden mirrors what we've known about Thor all along. -- Just sayin'...it's the same thing...they're the same guy.

Gouki

@Gouki

•12/04/2012 04:28 AM (UTC) •

i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

@Riyakou

•12/04/2012 05:42 AM (UTC) •

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

Thor would be more likely to win because of his massive stem of strength, which could overpower Raiden over a short period of time.

However, considering Raiden's endurance level, unmatched by any other character in the MK franchise, he would last long enough to land blows that will bring Thor to his knees.

In the end Thor would surely win, but he'll never want to fight Raiden again.

RazorsEdge701

@RazorsEdge701

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•12/04/2012 08:35 AM (UTC) •

ThePredator151 Wrote:
Thor isn't shit without his hammer

That's actually not true most of the time.

A long time ago back in the comics of like the 60's and 70's, yes, Thor couldn't use his powers without Mjolnir, if he went like a minute without it in his hand or something like that, he'd turn into/switch places with Don Blake, because of the whole Odin-trying-to-teach-him-to-be-humble thing.

But he's actually not bonded to a mortal all that often, he's spent WAY more comics just able to run around in full Asgardian form on Earth as much as he wants, and the last time he was stuck to Blake (which was a few years ago, and he's currently not bonded to him) they switched back and forth at will, he didn't have to hold onto the hammer all the time.

And normal Thor, without Mjolnir, only loses the ability to fly, control lightning/the weather, and make portals. He's still millions of tons-tier strong and durable without it.

Murcielago

@Murcielago

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Get that ass BANNED

•12/04/2012 08:48 AM (UTC) •

Vamp vs Blade. That'd be a good match up. Vampire Vampire Slayer vs Romanian Nanobyte infested Vampire like creep.

ThePredator151

@ThePredator151

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•12/04/2012 10:42 AM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

ThePredator151 Wrote:
Thor isn't shit without his hammer

Technicalities, right? The point is he's alot weaker a character without the hammer. I was careful to note that Thor is not a pushover in mortal form because I also like Thor a lot.-- However, Raiden's no pushover in mortal form either (we know that because that's all we've ever seen of him)...my thing is, we haven't seen the more powerful version of Raiden in action. And I'm suggesting...it's probably alot like what we know about Thor.

Further than that, I'm suggesting that to accurately match these two in a fight, put them on the same playing field. God form vs God form or Mortal vs Mortal. -- they'd probably cancel eachoher out...because I think they're the same person with the same powers. lol Just different points in life.

Looks like (#1.)at one point Thor could've gotten bored or something (or more mature), and picked up martial arts. Or vice versa, (#2.)Rajin/Raiden could've felt he needed to challenge himself at some point, refused to use martial arts, and chose to only use brute force. But I'd be more inclined to believe the ladder(#1.), considering Thor is depicted younger in age than Rajin/Raiden is in mythology.

That's the same guy...just older.

lastfighter89

@lastfighter89

•12/04/2012 12:36 PM (UTC) •

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

No offense, but judging something "wrong" without reading it or at least taking it into consideration is the purest form of plain ignorance.

@Riyakou

•12/04/2012 12:54 PM (UTC) •

lastfighter89 Wrote:

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

No offense, but judging something "wrong" without reading it or at least taking it into consideration is the purest form of plain ignorance.

Not ignorance, but stupidity.

You can't condemn someone for being ignorant.

Anyhoo, yeah, you can't assume what's in these posts without them. For all you know, Gouki, the majority could very well be in favor of Thor.

lastfighter89

@lastfighter89

•12/04/2012 01:23 PM (UTC) •

Riyakou Wrote:

lastfighter89 Wrote:

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

No offense, but judging something "wrong" without reading it or at least taking it into consideration is the purest form of plain ignorance.

there's nothing wrong if you prefer Thor over Raiden.
For sure, you're wrong when you assume that Thor would defeat Raiden just using his nose, when clearly Raiden too managed to reach GODLY accolades impossible to human beings.

It's just like...Robocop is stronger than Terminator. Dredd stronger than Demolition Man, Rambo being weaker than Rocky, John McClean stronger than Ethan Hunt....this "franchise vs franchise" fights are based purely on fanbase and fandom, unless they are explicitally unbalanced, but Thor vs Raiden OBVIOUSLY is not the case.

Example: Dan from Street Fighter versus The Living Tribunal of Marvel

@Riyakou

•12/04/2012 01:59 PM (UTC) •

lastfighter89 Wrote:

Riyakou Wrote:

lastfighter89 Wrote:

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

No offense, but judging something "wrong" without reading it or at least taking it into consideration is the purest form of plain ignorance.

Dan Wins! lol

I'm still waiting on Azazel vs HIM.

Gouki

@Gouki

•12/04/2012 03:49 PM (UTC) •

lastfighter89 Wrote:

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

No offense, but judging something "wrong" without reading it or at least taking it into consideration is the purest form of plain ignorance.

You Could be quite right, so, how about you explain how that applies to what i said in that post...?

Gouki

@Gouki

•12/04/2012 03:51 PM (UTC) •

Riyakou Wrote:

lastfighter89 Wrote:

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

No offense, but judging something "wrong" without reading it or at least taking it into consideration is the purest form of plain ignorance.

hahaha, What exactly did i "assume" ...?

RazorsEdge701

@RazorsEdge701

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•12/04/2012 04:04 PM (UTC) •

ThePredator151 Wrote:

Further than that, I'm suggesting that to accurately match these two in a fight, put them on the same playing field. God form vs God form or Mortal vs Mortal. -- they'd probably cancel eachoher out...because I think they're the same person with the same powers. lol Just different points in life.

That is really not how it works.

Raiden's mortal form has a bunch of superpowers. Thor's mortal form doesn't have any. Hell, Don Blake isn't JUST a vanilla human, he's a vanilla human with a bad leg. He couldn't win a fight against a regular dude much less a guy who can blow people up with an uppercut.

Thor's godly form is a humanoid with flesh and bones (albeit, flesh and bones that are immune to age, disease, the vaccuum of space...). Meanwhile, Raiden's godly form is actually, like, pure ethereal energy or made of lightning, with no solid body. That's kinda why we only ever see him in mortal form, a big cloud of energy isn't very photogenic. Remember how confusing and impossible to follow the last fight scene of the Ang Lee Hulk movie was, where Nick Nolte is doing stupid shit like turning into water, in a lake, so you can't even see what the fuck Hulk is fighting? It'd be a lot like that.

They just can't be matched up any other way than fully-powered Thor vs. tournament-form Raiden. They're otherwise incompatible.

Gouki

@Gouki

•12/04/2012 04:20 PM (UTC) •

SubMan799 Wrote:
12-21-2012

Goku vs. Superman on Death Battle

get. hype.

Im waiting for that match-up...

i want Goku to win...but...

well anyway, i guess we'll find out...or perhaps the world will end before then...lol

BIG_SYKE19

@BIG_SYKE19

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•12/04/2012 05:17 PM (UTC) •

raiden dont have enough feats as a elder god to see what he is capable of anyways.

he would never beat rune king thor.

if comes back to life hell just keep getting beat. still doesnt mean he is better than thor. comic book guys are overpowerd no one from mk has a chance.

raiden does have better hand to hand combat skills though.

Gouki

@Gouki

•12/04/2012 05:50 PM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

That is really not how it works.

Raiden's mortal form has a bunch of superpowers. Thor's mortal form doesn't have anybody. Hell, Don Blake isn't JUST a vanilla human, he's a vanilla human with a bad leg. He couldn't win a fight against a regular dude much less a guy who can blow people up with an uppercut.

Thor's godly form is a humanoid with flesh and bones (albeit, flesh and bones that are immune to age, disease, the vaccuum of space...). Meanwhile, Raiden's godly form is actually, like, pure ethereal energy or made of lightning, with no solid body. That's kinda why we only ever see him in mortal form, a big cloud of energy isn't very photogenic. Remember how confusing and impossible to follow the last fight scene of the Ang Lee Hulk movie was, where Nick Nolte is doing stupid shit like turning into water, in a lake, so you can't even see what the fuck Hulk is fighting? It'd be a lot like that.

They just can't be matched up any other way than fully-powered Thor vs. tournament-form Raiden. They're otherwise incompatible.

you know...you have good artwork

Mick-Lucifer

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•12/04/2012 07:01 PM (UTC) •

ThePredator151 Wrote:

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

ThePredator151 Wrote:
Thor isn't shit without his hammer

Technicalities, right?

I think on page, paper, screen, or just for anyone who knows both characters well on the terms they've existed, the answer simple: Thor can only lose if Thor-dependent circumstances are in-play.

Those circumstances aren't in play in current versions, and tend to have been phased out of any definitive impression of the character. They're the kind of exceptions that are more inherent in a character like Captain Marvel [and were actually used as such for Thor to beat Marvel, not the other way around]. The writer's influence can always contrive a reason for one character to triumph over another, but any battle-offensive Raiden-dependent contrivances aren't something we have readily available as reference. These days, Thor's probably a lock, even in those terms, meta-cheats and all.

It's not impossible to find circumstances for Raiden to win, but RazorsEdge701 makes his points well. The argument is overwhelmingly in Thor's favour. Right now, it's Raiden that would need a technicality to win.

@Riyakou

•12/04/2012 07:12 PM (UTC) •

Gouki Wrote:

Riyakou Wrote:

lastfighter89 Wrote:

Gouki Wrote:
i didnt even bother reading some of these comments, but i hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won...LOL

Of Course Raiden would lose against Thor, lol

No offense, but judging something "wrong" without reading it or at least taking it into consideration is the purest form of plain ignorance.

hahaha, What exactly did i "assume" ...?

Let's be real, the statement that you "hope no one is trying to say or explain how raiden could have won" was most likely derivef from the assumption that the longer posts contain just that.

Considering this is a MK site, those posts are likely to appear.

I myself feel Thor was fit to win, but I read the oppositions anyway. There were some good points, too. You should read 'em.

Gouki

@Gouki

•12/04/2012 08:09 PM (UTC) •

That is YOUR assumption, isnt it?

And I did imply i read 'SOME' of the comments...

I read some and some i didnt bother to even take a peak

so, how can u be so sure which were discarded, exactly...?

Also, an "explanation" can be short or long and those posts were full of both, correct me if im wrong.

HEY!! those all rhyme!!

ThePredator151

@ThePredator151

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•12/05/2012 05:30 AM (UTC) •

RazorsEdge701 Wrote:

1.) The cane Don totes around...IS the hammer.
2.) Early on, Donald isn't aware that he's Thor, but he finds out by getting frustrated and banging the cane up against a boulder when he was stuck in a cave. Once aware, Thor stays under the veil of Donald...to the point where he realizes what/who he is, and is then choosing to interchange between Donald & Thor when he wants to (circumstantial). Or more importantly, when he's threatened.
3.) The light dispersed when he transforms IS ALSO an effective weapon.
4.) Also, Raiden's celestial form is only seen in the first movie. If we're going to consider movie content in the debate, then Don is Jane Fosters ex-boyfriend. An absolute non-factor in Thor's movie storyline until he needs a t-shirt or needs to get out of jail. And as a matter of fact, that would really make the bout more even. Mid-movie (human) Thor vs video game Raiden. Thor's not weak in the movie but, he is absolutely fight-worthy. He took out a team of Special Forces//S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents with relative ease when he was trying to get back to his hammer.

Anyway...

All of that stuff...and they're still extremely similar to eachother. So much so that I'm pretty sure as far as myth goes, I think we're talking about the same personality at different times in life. Which was my original point.

When it comes to an even fight, Thor is "God Thor" no matter which way y'twist it. Raiden, on the other hand, has a definitive weaker fighting state than Thor, as well as a more powerful, "unfair to fight with humans" God state. And, if we are to consider an even fight, y'give both of them their best shot at winning. God vs God or Human vs Human, whichever is greater.

@Riyakou

•12/05/2012 06:13 AM (UTC) •

Gouki Wrote:

That is YOUR assumption, isnt it?

And I did imply i read 'SOME' of the comments...

I read some and some i didnt bother to even take a peak

so, how can u be so sure which were discarded, exactly...?

Also, an "explanation" can be short or long and those posts were full of both, correct me if im wrong.

HEY!! those all rhyme!!

I said 'most likely.'

I assumed nothing. If you did not feel that there were those who were stating how Raiden could have won, particularly within the posts you haven't read, you would not have made such a comment.

Now, if you decide to reply to this, by all means do so, but afterwards let's try to stay on topic. We're ruining the thread with our argument.

RazorsEdge701

@RazorsEdge701

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•12/05/2012 08:04 AM (UTC) •

ThePredator151 Wrote:
The cane Don totes around...IS the hammer.
2.) Early on, Donald isn't aware that he's Thor, but he finds out by getting frustrated and banging the cane up against a boulder when he was stuck in a cave. Once aware, Thor stays under the veil of Donald...to the point where he realizes what/who he is, and is then choosing to interchange between Donald & Thor when he wants to (circumstantial). Or more importantly, when he's threatened.
3.) The light dispersed when he transforms IS ALSO an effective weapon.

You're missing the point. You wanted to compare them directly, Thor's mortal form to Raiden's mortal form, and Thor's godly form to Raiden's godly form.

Well if Don turns into Thor, then fights Raiden, he's not fighting mortal form vs. mortal form, is he?

Don would have to fight Raiden AS DON, without transforming, for it to be a "fair" fight and my point was that's STILL not fair because Don is a pussy with a limp and Raiden has superpowers, so there's no way they could fight mortal-to-mortal and be evenly matched.

ThePredator151 Wrote:
Also, Raiden's celestial form is only seen in the first movie.

That's just the movie's version of a teleport special effect.

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