My wife recently got into MK and loves the series, but was not a fan of how the chicks looked in MK9. She really liked MKX though. As I said previously in this thread, I didn't mind, and even enjoyed, the scantily clad outfits in MK9 (some of them were packing some serious junk in the trunk), but I do think the MKX outfits were a step in the right direction. My wife is aware that I enjoy stuff like that and even though she has a different opinion on it than I do, and we'll sometimes get into a debate about it, it doesn't negatively affect our marriage.

I just wanted to say I more than understand what some of you are saying and I understand your concerns with some of the women's costumes- I get where you're coming from. Excellent points have been made by both sides during the duration of this discussion and despite what some may think- I have enjoyed both sides voicing their opinions. I also thank the Lesbian/Bi-Sexual women who spoke up in this thread as well.

But these last 4-5 replies have unnerved me. I detect certain people on the other side of this argument are growing more and more vicious with each reply. Labeling every one who disagrees with them as " Evil SJWs", "Cold hearted Feminists" or most sickingly- "Pussy-whipped stooges"- and what's more disturbing is that those remarks are derogatory toward women, you know, the gender whom some of them feel oh so entitled to see in more revealing outfits. These last few replies are very "angry", they are downright lashing out. I realize that anger is ultimately nothing but a symptom of fear. These people are afraid- one user admitted their afraid of "women" taking away the one last thing a man has left- they actually feel Jade's and Skarlet's cool new costumes is some kind of persecution on heterosexual men.

What we have, ultimately here, is a few scared men. These scared men are taking things down a dark divisive path- the whole "Agree with me or you're Pussy-whipped" or "You're an evil SJW Feminist out to ruin our lives" and the fact these men BELIEVE this in all seriousness- it's not ridiculous, it's FRIGHTENING.

Yeah, I know, I said I was gone and I am. I just had to get that last bit off my very covered chest. ;p

Carry on.

Yet her profile reads:

Interests: Sexy Men

Gender: Dragqueen

Birthday: 00/00/00

Occupation: Whore

Yet we are being derogatory against women?

Glad to see everyone continuing to post and respecting others so far... please keep being respectful.

My personal take here, is that I don't care. I really love MK, the lore, the gore, and the fighting system. They will design their characters the way they want. To me, the characters look the best they've ever looked. I like how they're bringing out the personality. I really don't think it's as big as a SJW move as most people think it is. Actually, I doubt any SJW effort was even made to make these types of decisions. I do however, think the reactions and words from people at NRS are gaining more reaction than they probably should. In the end, these guys will make the game that THEY want to make.

I'll enjoy it either way.
That being said, a majority of the senior heads and decision makers are all the people who were at Midway.... so.... saying they're 'ruining it' from the Midway days is in MY opinion (and my opinion alone) not true.

That being said, I'll pick up the game and play it. I have my own set of personal beliefs, they have never however, changed my opinion to buy or not buy a title. I'll buy it because it's Mortal Kombat... and at the end of the day? I love Mortal Kombat. So I'll buy it. Even if it's Special Forces. (Yes, I have a boxed copy of that on PS1). Each of you can make your own decisions, and share your views, but don't expect your opinion to sway someone one way or another. Just state your views, understand people may not agree with you and move on. If you want to read their responses that's cool, you may learn something, or you may be more solidified in your own beliefs. Rad. That's how people become who they are.

None the less, glad to see everyone's being respectful. No name calling though. I understand passionate debate is a thing, just continue to keep it cool in here.

Have a fantastic Thursday everyone.

People are looking too deep into this. If you have been a long term fan of Mortal Kombat, you should know they always switch things up like the mechanics, models, character roster, storyline, voice actor etc. Whether its for the better or it may not be for your preferences. In the next game they may filter down the costumes or even make the series 3D like Tekken. If you cant adapt to change. The franchise isn't for you.

I completely agree. I've read the entire thread, expecting to see the usual paranoid fears that feminism is "taking games away", and I was not disappointed!

It is very difficult to understand the level of sheer vitriol directed at an outside political/social movement over such an innocuous change. It feels extremely disproportionate to the actual circumstance: NRS went a different way with the art direction on one of their video games. To decry "censorship," to attack "fascist" feminists, to boycott, to presage some apocalyptic future because Kitana's cleavage isn't so pronounced? I really don't get it, guys. "Disproportionate" fear is putting it mildly, actually. Some of these responses just seem wacky.

How could anyone possibly make the argument that NRS has fallen to the "evil censorship-loving SJWs" when the violence and brutality on display exceeds anything they've ever made before? Are SJWs only concerned with representations of sexually objectified women in video games, or are they concerned with representations of violence against sexually objectified women in video games, or are they concerned with hyper violence in all its forms? Which is it? (Don't answer that - it's a rhetorical question! I know the answer is "whichever one I need to believe in order to maintain my persecution complex!) Is it merely possible that, with the graphical capacity of the game hitting a near uncanny valley level of extreme accuracy to real humans and bodies, the more cartoonishly slutty outfits of MK9 and games past might simply be phased out in order to maintain a more cohesive look and feel to the game?

These women don't look like cartoons anymore. They're made to look like real people. The art direction will change because of that, as the game approaches a new level of realism - no, not "realistic," but realism, a different aesthetic category. MX11 and MKX reflect a grittier, darker style, from the lighting to the color palette to the uncanny valley fighters, environments, etc. More cartoonishly-naked costumes would not only look utterly laughable in this environment, they'd ruin the aesthetic cohesion of the project as a whole. Not everything has to be a mass ideological conspiracy instigated to take away your favorite toys, or in this case, put pants on your favorite naked Barbies.

And no, Kano's outfit isn't sexually objectifying just because his bare chest is exposed. Most people in this thread are confusing the difference between "sexy" and "sexually objectifying." What is "sexy" is a subjective determination - a person could think that Baraka is sexy (no judgment!), but no one could reasonably argue that Baraka was designed for the sole purpose to arouse someone sexually. By contrast, everything about Jade's physical appearance in MK9 was designed to draw visual comparisons to strippers. You don't have to agree that sexual objectification is necessarily wrong or immoral (I don't think it's always bad! My favorite comic book character is Emma Frost!), but perhaps you could acknowledge that it comes with a different aesthetic "coding" that doesn't easily translate across differing visual mediums. There's a reason why you won't see Mai Shiranui as a guest fighter in MK11, for example. It would look tonally off.

Last point: Mortal Kombat has always been a fighter with a lopsided ratio between male and female characters, heavily skewed toward the men folk. I believe MKX's roster was about 1/4 women. That's fine! Please don't jump down my throat about pointing that out, not trying to say it should be different. My point, however, is that men in Mortal Kombat could always *be* more, look more radically different, more differentiated and variable in their appearances. You could be a ninja, a reptile, Tarkatan, old sorcerer, cyborg, movie star, army general, shadow (!), thunder god, wind god, cop, deformed assassin, deformed pile of meat, I could go on...so many different visual representations of fun archetypes! Yes, some were shirtless dudes with big muscles, but some weren't, which was great! But, because there were so few female characters in these games, your choices were always limited, and the range of identities were pretty much reducible to "hot chick" or "evil hot chick," with some very rare exceptions (Ashrah). MKX finally changed that up a bit, with characters like D'Vorah and Ferra/Torr. This is all to say that I don't think it's logically sound to cry "double standard!" after the entire history of this franchise showcases a heterogeneous collection of male characters and a very limited range of female characters, female characters who basically needed to justify their presence in games by looking hot, no matter who or what they were to the story.

What's most important, and this is something we do really all agree on, is that a diversity of appearances should be prioritized, and character designs should showcase individuality and the character's backstory/personality while remaining true to the core aesthetic principals of the Mortal Kombat in which they are appearing. Whew, rant over, peace and love.

(Maybe meet some self-identified feminists in real life, ya'll? Promise we're not too scary!)

A lot of fans are worried about feminist censorship "gender studies". Sometimes it's good to get a bit out of the SJW bubble.

For example...

You want to know what else is unrealistic? Believing only MEN care about sensuality & the female form. NRS' lead art director & people who think like him may CHOOSE to believe women are "pure, wholesome, innocent, virginal" beings, but as a woman I can tell you we're NOT!

If that were the case, female cosplayers wouldn't volunteer to cosplay in those "bathing suits". They wouldn't take the time to construct the costumes, don makeup & model in photoshoots of the "objectifying" attire of MK females! And a lot of those female are SPONSORED by NRS!

If the pallet-swap female ninjas wearing leotards are "objectifying" women in real life, then female cosplayers recreating those looks from the video games are also "objectifying" women in real life, too. That's just logic. NRS' lead art director shouldn't be a half-ass activist.

I'm genuinely hurt the sexist art director openly stated he doesn't care about the thoughts, feelings & opinions of longtime MK fans. As someone who watched my older brother play MK1 & picked up an SNES controller when i was 9 to play MK2, I'm saddened by his callousness.

Unlike most MK fans of today, I remember political groups working tirelessly to try & get MK banned from consoles in the 90s. But John & Ed stood firm with their vision & remained true to their artistic integrity to continue producing MK games the way THEY wanted! They fought

against those political groups. And with the help of the fans NRS' lead art director doesn't care about, won. Once upon a time Mortal Kombat was revered by fans because it showcased REAL artistic & creative freedom. It was the 1st of its kind to do this. MK shook the gaming

industry & changed it forever. The ERSB rating system was created because of MK. Ed & John didn't bow to the political demands of detractors because they & the FANS believed in their vision. Because of MK, games like Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Call of Duty to name a few exist.

Mortal Kombat really showed & proved that a video game going against the political grain can be successful. Violence, gore & sexy women are staples for the iconic fighting series. And for NRS' lead art director to flippantly dismiss longtime fans who stood by this series as

insignificant hurts. I'm also saddened NRS has now bent over & puckered up to the politics it's fought against for nearly 3 decades with no lubrication. As a female MK fan I enjoy the sexy costumes of the female characters, & plenty of female MK fans do too. NRS allowed a vocal

minority to speak for ALL women & not only change the designs for the women in MK11 but to not offer longtime fans the option to choose their klassic attire is insulting & ludicrous. Why does a game centered around mythology have to be based on realism when it comes it its women?

Why not offer the klassic skins in the gear/costume options in MK11? Why not create a separate Sexy Kombo Pack & offer the sexier attire as DLC skins? Why NRS as a gaming company wouldn't offer these choices to the fans? Why would a gaming company NOT try to please the majority

of their fanbase, but instead insult & alienate them? Since NRS' sexist lead art director & his followers are making decisions for ME as a woman, (and he's stated he doesn't care about me despite the DECADES I remained loyal to this franchise) MK11 will be my final MK purchase.

I don't like being controlled. I don't like being told what I can & cannot enjoy based on someone ELSE'S political convictions. NRS' lead art director & his supporters took my right to choose away from me. So I'm taking my money & keeping it in my pocket when MK12 debuts. I can't

persuade NRS to change their minds & offer the female klassic skins in MK11. Just like NRS cannot persuade me to continue supporting a series that no longer stands for artistic & creative freedom. - "If people are disappointed, I don’t regret making that change by any means."

https://twitter.com/eroticaprincess/status/1111837552070270976

Very well said!

progress? what do you mean? progressives? New Left? "gender studies"? identity politics?

This is actually a really good point and I agree with you on this. Problem is, though, is that Beran's remarks on their design choices for MK11 were rather condescending towards the fanbase while patting himself on the back for how "progressive" and "respectful" they are for making the female characters look more modest. Not gonna lie, it's kind of a pet peeve of mine when developers and producers fellate themselves over how woke and inclusive they are, rather than just committing to their decisions and focusing on talking about gameplay, story, characters, etc. I think a lot of also has to do with how influential the media is, which is predominantly left-wing, so maybe game developers are under pressure to spout that kind of stuff? Either way, if Beran's statement was closer to what you said versus what he actually said, the whole thing could have gone down much better.

I'm not a fan of this outfit either dude, but come on. Jade has had different "faces" throughout the franchise's history. I wouldn't say the Latina look has been her trademark, she's always been a mix of African and Middle Eastern, which seems to be the case for MK11. She's also wearing a hood, which is kind of a dumb look for her, but its not exactly a hijab.

This is true for the most part, but part of MK's success was built on the sex appeal of the female characters. After all, MK's roots are firmly planted in the 90's, and sex appeal, at least for games geared towards a mature audience, were an important factor around that time period. I understand if you disagree with me, and I'm not saying that straight guys were the only fans MK ever had (especially not now), but we shouldn't discount that the sex appeal factor and the heterosexual male side of the fanbase did contribute to the longevity of the series, for better or for worse.

Calling it a "sexy kombo" pack probably wouldn't be the best idea all things considered, but I do hope that they make klassic skins available as DLC. I really do believe there's a happy medium to be achieved here, similar to how they did it in Injustice 2.

Yeah, Jade's "face" has been all over the place. So much that I'm half-positive she's a chameleon, lol

In the words of the great Dr. King Schultz from Django Unchained- "I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!"

@mahne876

"A lot of fans are worried about feminist censorship "gender studies". Sometimes it's good to get a bit out of the SJW bubble."

And sometimes it's good to get out of the perpetual bubble of accusing everyone who disagrees with your viewpoints- an SJW. Painting every one on the other side as such is the work of paranoid people with twisted delusions and narcissistic egos. Nobody is out to get you and if you are taking this video game drama that seriously- I urge you to talk to someone, professionally.

You want to know what else is unrealistic? Believing only MEN care about sensuality & the female form.

Nobody ever said that. Which is why I was reaching out to Lesbian/Bi-sexual women specifically so they could speak out on this subject.

NRS' lead art director & people who think like him may CHOOSE to believe women are "pure, wholesome, innocent, virginal" beings, but as a woman I can tell you we're NOT!

What in the hell are you even yacking about? Skarlet bathing in her opponents blood pouring from their slit throat and Cassie kicking the fucking spine out of her opponent- all kinda flies in the face of your assumption that the NRS lead art director is portraying women as wholesome, innocent, virginal beings...Once again, I ask- what the hell are you even talking about? You're making vast assumptions and going off on a rant based on those made-up assumptions.

If that were the case, female cosplayers wouldn't volunteer to cosplay in those "bathing suits". They wouldn't take the time to construct the costumes, don makeup & model in photoshoots of the "objectifying" attire of MK females! And a lot of those female are SPONSORED by NRS!If the pallet-swap female ninjas wearing leotards are "objectifying" women in real life, then female cosplayers recreating those looks from the video games are also "objectifying" women in real life, too. That's just logic. NRS' lead art director shouldn't be a half-ass activist.

He never claimed to be an activist determined to stop the objectification of women- he simply stated he wanted to design these female characters wearing more than just bikinis and guess what? That's something that MAJORITY of the fucking fanbase have wanted! I've stated before a thousand times in this thread- this change didn't start from the outside- it started from the inside- FANS were unhappy with the HORRIBLE MK9 designs and NRS got backlash- they listened to the FANS. That's it. There's no SJW soccer moms lurking in the shadows obsessively trying to destroy female sexuality in Mortal Kombat by saying "Oh, brutally eviscerating those women in this violent game is fine- but JEEPERS! Look at those half-naked scallywags! We must put a stop to this!"

Stop with the fucking delusions and lies. Fans weren't pleased with those trashy MK9 designs, NRS has been working never to go back- you and other fans are not happy with it- Ok, fair enough- but stop twisting this into a political warfare or an attack on you as a person.

I'm genuinely hurt the sexist art director openly stated he doesn't care about the thoughts, feelings & opinions of longtime MK fans.

Oh, so now he's sexist? He obviously does care because those feelings and opinions of longtime MK fans are what enacted this change in the first place- it just so happens you weren't in the majority. Cry me a river. So them pandering is fine as long as its what YOU want. You selfish person.

As someone who watched my older brother play MK1 & picked up an SNES controller when i was 9 to play MK2, I'm saddened by his callousness.

I'm impressed by his honesty and him standing strong in his choices in the face of screaming trolls. That's the very opposite of a snowflake, in my book. ;p

Unlike most MK fans of today, I remember political groups working tirelessly to try & get MK banned from consoles in the 90s. But John & Ed stood firm with their vision & remained true to their artistic integrity to continue producing MK games the way THEY wanted! They fought

They are still standing for their artistic integrity- the only difference is YOU'RE fighting them on it because it's not what YOU think it should be. Now you want to FORCE them to change what they feel is best for the series just because you have some deep-seeded issues with leftist- which has not a damn thing to do with this.

Why not offer the klassic skins in the gear/costume options in MK11? Why not create a separate Sexy Kombo Pack & offer the sexier attire as DLC skins? Why NRS as a gaming company wouldn't offer these choices to the fans?

THE GAME ISN'T EVEN OUT YET. How do you know they won't? There you go with those insane assumptions again. Skarlet is already getting a pretty revealing Russian skin. You're flying off the handle over things that don't exist.

Why would a gaming company NOT try to please the majority

Clearly, You're not the majority dear. Hurts, doesn't it?

Since NRS' sexist lead art director & his followers are making decisions for ME as a woman

...Huh? This is a video game. NRS isn't impacting your life or making decisions for you. This is THEIR game, lady. If you don't like it- leave.

I don't like being controlled. I don't like being told what I can & cannot enjoy based on someone ELSE'S political convictions.

NRS probably feels the same way- they probably don't like being restricted from designing their female characters more realistically because of a bunch of cry babies online who sees "agendas" and "conspiracies" in every thing, even a jar of butter.

"If people are disappointed, I don’t regret making that change by any means."

That's right- sticking to his guns like a man. Gotta love it <3 I love people who stand for what they believe in despite being attacked and crucified for it by people like you.

No, progress as in looking better than a mentally challenged stripper.

I'm not a Liberal or a leftist- so stop with the assumptions.

But there is more. With some female characters like Skarlet or especially Jade they have gone into the land of S...ia
Jade for example is now fully S...ia-compatible with a veil and a brand new middle-eastern face (instead of latina face and look, which was her trademark for years).

12 pages... really?

Can't we all just agree to disagree? It's quite obvious that neither side is going to relent. Both sides have points. Both sides have been heard. Really what is left to say? I've read through this thing from the beginning today... and honestly it's just the same things on both sides being said over and over again. I honestly think the debate is over and we've actually entered "beating a dead horse" territory.

Also, can we keep in mind that the game isn't even OUT yet? We don't know exactly what they're going to do as far as options go. DLC alone gives them the ability to change said options at literally any time after release. So they could decide to put in more skin options. Did we all not see that on the skin option tab in the game... there are plenty of blank open slots for every character. More skins will definitely be coming and we don't know what they'll consist of yet. So there could still be options for everyone.

And no, I'm not saying for people to "shut up" here as it goes without saying that no one has to. I just don't want this to get any nastier than it has in the past pages. Especially when there is no reason for it to. Can we not wait for the actual release to say indefinitely what will or will not be in the game?

why are you censoring the post?

(Women) "sexualized" is only a NEWSPEAK-word ("1984", George Orwell) of the feminist ideology for to demonize or criminalize the beauty or the sex appeal. The FANS legitimately want the classical outfits like those of MK9 or another. There is nothing wrong with the fanservice, the fan is a customer and the companies must SERVE to the FANS. The feminists are not fans. All this because feminists want to censor sexy women. Then now the developers make a feministservice instead a FANservice. The SJW and feminists have to understand that there is nothing wrong with beautiful women or with sex appeal. It`s fine be pretty.

Do people like Anita Sarkeesian and all those feminist SJW activist journalists with their ideology of "gender studies" who infest the mass media want female characters with veil or covered and toned down? Well. But here there are fans who do not care about the political correctness, nor the activist journalists SJW; and they only want OPTIONS of the classic sexy costumes like those of MK9, especially in the female ninjas.

The developers have to make a DLC Anita Sarkeesian, feminist SJW MODE for feministservice

The game must have OPTIONS and everyone happy.

There is no such thing as a "Latina face". Latino/Hispanic isn't a race. It's a culture made up of a variety of races throughout latin-speaking countries- White, Black, Asian ect.

Educate yourself, please.

I bet it's Cyrax's doing. He still wants his money back from seeing Ninja Mime

"I am not a SJW"

Yes off course...

Is only a manner of say it.

And yes, it's too bad that NRS has changed races or ethnic appearances. Jade and Kitana have always been like Latin girls. Not to mention the decline, for example, with Kitana's flat chest. And this I say without being a special admirer of huge breasts. If they had modeled women like in Injustice it would have been relatively good, but they applied a lot of downgrade, for "realism".