This information is not related to the process the developers used when they named Bo' Rai Cho. Only "borracho is spanish for drunk and we changed the spelling to make it look asian" is.

This is the EXACT thing I'm trying to get you to stop doing. What is it with you, that you feel compelled to do this?

This is not the Midway boards. The dumb threads and poor information they had over there does not fly here. That's the entire reason I post on MKO, because the people and topics are of a higher standard of quality than on other MK sites. Does themortalkombat.com still have a working forum? Perhaps you'd fit in better there, since that's the natural successor to the Midway boards?

It should be a funny coincidence that Bo' wields a bo then at the very least. As stated, I don't want to leave a part of a word's possible meaning unchecked, for finding all the potential key words. I for one consider those pieces of Bo' Rai Cho plausible - honestly - but then again, "you're obliged to your own opinion". That's pretty arrogant to say of Midway Boards actually. Dumb threads and poor information dwell in just any MK forum.
Midway Boards did probably have a bit more n00bs though, seeing that it was advertised in game manuals etc. resulting in more people just passing by. There were some wise users in there nevertheless. It's not about fitting in with me. I believe themortalkombat.com still has a forum, but I think it's horrible and tacky. I tried it. Besides, Mortal Kombat Armory is the real successor of Midway Boards (MK section). MKO just feels cozy and sensible enough, and I've been reading MKO news articles since '05.

I think he's just messing with you at this point.

Back to a more relevant issue:

Seeing as Cyber Sub Zero is, at this point, under Quan Chi's control, Sektor can pretty much take control over the Lin Kuei now and start creating more cyborgs on a massive level (the Tekunin) with alot more ease compared to in the original timeline having to be defeated by human Sub-Zero and escaping to Japan to do all that. Sektor is a pretty powerful character, I personally believe he doesn't get as much credit as he should for how much damage and destruction he could do. In the old timeline, you had Sub-Zero take care of him, but now that he is out of the picture (sort of), Sektor can amass all the strength and might to do some serious stuff. Even if Cyrax were to turn to the good guys, I think we can all agree that Cyrax would be defeated by Sektor. I know this is a thread about Cyber Sub-Zero but people have deviated off of the thread from time to time, and I am still talking about a cyborg here that is somewhat relevant to Cyber Sub-Zero too. Anyone have thoughts about Sektor possibly having a bigger role in the next game? Maybe bargaining with Quan Chi to have Cyber Sub-Zero (for experiments, having another bodyguard, who knows) in exchange for the Lin Kuei's support and loyalty to Quan Chi?

Here's why this is a problem:

Imagine for a second that you go over to a friend's house, and he's got a new pet dog.

You ask "Is it a boy or a girl?"

And he answers "It's a Golden Retriever! Scientific classification Canis Lupus Familiaris."

Well gee, that may be true, but did it answer the question?

Did it?

Because that's what you are doing. If someone wanted to know "Where did they get this Chinese character's name from?" and you answer what the same words just happen to mean in freaking Finnish, how is that helpful to anybody?

You gotta have either a trustworthy source for where the developers got the name from like if they outright said it in an interview as they have for many names, or if there is none, then at least proof of how it's relevant to the character, man.

P.S. Bo' Rai Cho doesn't even use a goddamn bo staff. He uses a walking cane which is significantly shorter than a bo, and his fighting style with it is called "Jojutsu". See how your need to find second meanings leads to misinformation?

Another reason I don't take Zmoke's posts seriously: Misinformation.

You told that Bi-Han has a Chinese etymology. Care to explain what it is? You know, I didn't answer anyone's question on Bi-Han's name backgrounds, did I? When was the last time I presented a new suggestion of a potential Finnish background? In 2009 I remember, it's not like I "always do that". To sort it out; a friend of mine uses to tell things that he believes are true, but a couple of times when I've discussed of the specific things with another person I have realized that the friend wasn't right. I hate telling things based on mere beliefs. I'm not saying that I would never do that - because everyone has a tendency to that, rarely or less rarely.
Two-directional him = Relevant to Noob Saibot with basically two bodies
P.S. Staff/stick whatever. I knew it's jojutsu. Call it "a lack of information". Bo' carries a some kind of staff nonetheless and bo is Japanese for staff.

Prepare to explain yourself for this pompous and ludicrous statement.


That's entirely possible, if you look at how Sektor allied with Shao Kahn. Although, things might be different now if Sektor has learned to see it from another perspective; Netherrealm is attacking their home realm.

To Zmoke: The reason why RazorsEdge701 was trying to point out that Bi-Han's name is Chinese is because that is the intention of NRS for both him and his brother Kuai Liang. All you have to do is pay attention to their stories, and you should easily be able to see that they are Chinese just like the clan they belong to. As for a similarity between "Kuai Liang" and "Lin Kuei", well, they are both Chinese names, but they don't carry a similar meaning if that's what you're trying to imply.

About Cyrax's name, I wish you would have addressed that in response to my response. Not only is "x" a Greek innovation, but "c" is a Latin innovation. So with that said, I would like for you to explain how Cyrax is an Arabic name in that other thread.

-------

Going back to the topic of how Cyber Sub-Zero's story could have been done differently, I had already made a response earlier. However, I would like to make another suggestion. If the main story of the game was a lot different, and we had a full reboot, Sub-Zero could have played a lot more of an antagonistic role. The idea would be that with the Lin Kuei's movement to the usage of advanced technology, they would have been enhancing their top assassins' powers. Sub-Zero would turn to technology to enhance his freezing powers, and his appearance could be somewhat like the look he had for MK: Rebirth in the sense of having openly human features mixed in the cybernetic enhancements.

No, a Bo is a KIND of staff, a long kind used in Bojutsu. It is, by definition, a foot or two longer than a Jo, which is the shorter kind of staff Bo' Rai Cho uses, the kind used in Jojutsu.

And as for this craziness:



This is some "I'll FORCE the square peg to fit into the round hole!" shit right here. This doesn't make any fucking sense at all and you sound like a rambling lunatic.

Like I told you, someone ELSE posted the Chinese meanings of Bi, Han, Kuai, and Liang months ago, and I don't remember it and here's the important thing: Since I do not actually speak Chinese, I'm not going to make an idiot of myself like YOU repeatedly have, by looking it up online and coming back with a potentially incorrect definition. Online translators are not trustworthy, and Chinese characters, like most words in most languages, have multiple definitions so I'd really rather leave the translating to someone who's ACTUALLY fluent in the goddamn language and can separate what's true from what's false and what's relevant from what's not.

We don't know the NeRdS' all hidden agendas - who are known for Easter eggs and secrets - that is for granted. I know they are Chinese and related to the Cryomancer race. "Lin Kuei" is "forest demon" if I remember correctly but the rhyming similarity between "Lin Kuei" and "Liang Kuai" makes sense seeing that Sub-Zero (mostly known as Kuai Liang) has represented the clan in the games for a long time. You posted it this week, it isn't like I should respond to everything in the same day or the day after. I'll respond to that "later" because I honestly don't have time for two on-going discussions in MKO this week - and if you want to know why (personal): I have a move to another place in progress. I will respond...

Zmoke, I have a term for you to exercise your keen internet-detective abilities upon:

"Apophenia".

Except the fact that there is no rhyming similarity between Lin Kuei and Kuai Liang at all. They are romanized into similar looking words.

And aside that, there is a metric fuckton of meanings the variable pronunciations of said words can mean in one chinese dialect only.


Shang Tsung for example can mean Temple Elder or Mountain Painting.

It's not like the MK team has ever been strict or too accurate with those. Jade's fighting style in Mortal Kombat: Deception is bojutsu but her weapon isn't exactly one, while her fighting style may be. This is bojutsu.

Why does not that "make any sense"? I'm curious. Here you refer to your "strong beliefs" now yet you accuse me of doing something like that. If I have looked something up online, it's not like I would choose the first link and rely on that but view multiple links at the least. Let me make this clear: I speak fluent Finnish. So I should know, right? And before you start a flame war again, or should I say a "flame attempt" - because I won't join to that, there are dozens of people just in any MK forum connecting potential key words to the name meanings. Visit other forums and you may just start calling everyone mentally ill. That won't fly far however. Ugh...
Chrome: Yes, that may be just right, depending on the language spoken of course. They really have same letters in same places though, don't they?

Yes, Jade uses Bojutsu because her staff IS a fucking bo and always has been. The one in Deception's just got some damn decorations on it. What's important in a staff is LENGTH. Jesus, you're being dense about this.

As for the Noob Saibot thing, look. You saw a guy who can control his own shadow and went "There are two of him! In my language, his name means blah blah blah with the words "two" and "him" in it!" fine, whatever, it sounds like a complete fucking nonsequitur to everybody else though and here's why: NRS DIDN'T USE YOUR LANGUAGE. HE'S A GOD DAMNED CHINAMAN.
Seriously. You are looking for meanings and patterns and connections where none actually exist. You're like Jim Carrey in The Number 23.
If you met a Chinese guy named Han in real life, would you assume his parents speak Finnish? Would you think he cares what his name means in Finnish?

While it's a staff with similar length to a bo staff, the heads make a big difference and the staff seems to be of metal anyway. It'd weigh much more then making a significant difference. Nowhere in MKD it is told that her weapon would be a bo I recall, only that the weapon style is. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they referred to it as a bo.
Bi is a global prefix, common in English as well, meaning basically "two-directional" or anything related to "two". "Han" is "he" in the name "Han Solo" as well, according to some sources so I'm definitely not just connecting these for fun. "Han" could be "he" in other languages as well, I'm not saying that it couldn't. Han Solo is an iconic character of a popular franchise. This isn't a "Do the funniest, ridiculous reference" contest. ύ.ὺ
Source #642
FOR THE RECORD: Cage is an English word and the nickname for Carlton who favors a phrase "You got caged!" - yet still it has a deeper meaning from the Japanese word, kage, meaning a shadow. His special moves are shadowy. We're talking about whether Bi-Han's name means "two-directional him" or not, for crying out loud, and to me that is totally plausible. If you don't believe this, fine by me, but stop the juvenile flaming straightaway. You *cannot* state that NeRdS did not use "han" in the sense of "him" as a fact because that would be very wrong. I'm not Jesus.
For your information: Game world =/= Real world

Razor I get that your trying to prove a point here, but as much as I agree with it there's no reason to lose the plot the way you are. Ultimately it's harmless what Zmoke thinks of the etymology of the characters, fans speculate and thats the way it's always been with the fanbase. There's no need to be coming across as so aggressive about this. The internet is awash with misinformation, you alone wont be able to rectify that in regards to Mortal Kombat. Disagree with him if you must but try not be so hot headed.

Zmoke, honestly I think NRS just gave them chinese names to tie in with the clan's location. Some of the origins for their character's names are quite obvious (Reptile because he was initially coloured in a green ninja suit, Scorpion because of the spear move) but for the majority of the roster I don't think they put a lot of thought into the name so long as it fitted and sounded cool. It's NRS we're talking about here, let's not get carried away assuming they'd put that much thought into naming the characters when we've had personas like Meat (because he was skinless) Mokap (because he was a Motion Capture actor) and Blaze (because he's on fire) grace our presence in the last few years. ;)


In regards to the ACTUAL TOPIC *ahem*, I think Sub-Zero's automation would have been better had him and Smoke actually escaped from the Lin Kuei at the end of Mortal Kombat 2. Here's just an example of what could have happened:

Outcast from the clan, they flee from the Lin Kuei temple and go to fight alongside Raiden during the invasion, until one of Shao Kahn's invasion squads overpowers the two. Sektor and Cyrax show up to capture the two, and a weakened Sub-Zero urges Smoke to escape and find Raiden before it's too late. Sub-Zero takes on the two cyborgs, and defeats them, but weakened from his previous battles, he barely manages to fend them off. Playing dead, Sektor immobilizes him with an electrical surge, knocking him out as the ninja tries to leave the scene. He mutters the word "Smoke..." as he passes out and is brought back to the temple.

During the chaos of the invasion, Smoke is attacked by Reptile, and later by Bi Han, though at the time he is aware of the wraith's true identity. His attackers set him back, and by the time Smoke locates Raiden and informs him of the Lin Kuei's presence, Sub-Zero's been assimilated by the clan. Now dispatched to eliminate the Earthrealm warriors and re-capture his former ally, Sub-Zero tracks down Smoke. Sektor and Cyrax are now under new instructions by the Grandmaster to offer the Lin Kuei's allegiance during the invasion. The Emperor accepts the clan's offer, granting the Lin Kuei immunity during the invasion, and the cyborgs begin serving him.

Horrified to see what had happened to his best friend, Smoke pleads with Sub-Zero to remember him, but the cyborg attacks him. The intense confrontation between the two former friends overpowers Sub-Zero's cybernetics, allowing his conscience to emerge. CSZ struggles with the flashbacks of his past, and who he used to be. Eventually his emerging conscience overpowers his programming, and he too is horrified at what the Lin Kuei had done to him. He resolves to stop the clan at whatever costs, joining Raiden's side once more. By the time Sindel massacres them though, I wouldn't have him die. Overpowered, defeated, and maybe even in need of some restoration, but I wouldn't have him killed. His change to a cyborg form was already quite drastic, death wouldn't help his story.

Y'know what? I think perhaps the best way to digest everything that is wrong with the things you say is to take them slowly, one at a time.

So let's start with this one:

You called Bo' Rai Cho's cane a bo.

Do you or do you not admit this was wrong?

My ENTIRE point revolves around the fact that it's NOT harmless.

It ACTIVELY gives false answers to questions, decieving and misdirecting people who might be interested to know where NRS REALLY came up with these things from.

Just because he's not the only person on the internet who pulls this bullshit doesn't make it okay to do it.

Y'know how the MKWiki got so bad that it's nearly unusuable in the first place? Because no one there was knowledgeable enough or cared enough to stop the lies and correct the mistakes. Well I'm just one man and I have to work and sleep and have a life sometimes, so I don't have the time or patience to try and make a whole wiki that was massively broken before I even found it stop sucking, and I may not be able to stop other MK boards and sites from having false info on them, but I can DAMNED SURE keep this shit out of the one forum I call home.

I'm a human too. I must go to eat now. I won't spend my whole Friday evening on the computer. Don't freak out in the mean time. Take it easy.

Your taking this way too seriously.

First and foremost, half of the characters in the series have Bio Kards with narration from either Ed Boon or John Vogel explaining who and what the character is. It's explained in Rain's one, for example, that he was named after a pop culture song, and in Ermac's that his name came from fan rumours about a programming glitch. They may not give in-depth details about the likes of Nitara, or Ashrah's etymology but trust me, if fans really wanted to find out info on the characters, they could.

Second, I highly doubt the majority of members who log on here actively give a shit if Havik was named after a hawk or not. Most would just correctly assume that his name is just a play on the word "Havoc", considering he's from a world that prides itself on anarchy. Characters like Bo Rai Cho could be named from it's Spanish translation, but again it's a twist on words to make it sound Asian as opposed to Spanish. Not everyone cares that much about it either. Most of the names of the characters are quite silly and uninspired puns, like Reptile, Sub-Zero, Smoke and Goro. It's fairly easy to guess correctly how their names were conceived.

What zmoke is doing is just theoretical and in all honesty it is harmless. I don't believe for a second that somewhere out there hundreds of thousands of MK fans are typing into Google "How MK characters got their names", being directed to "Cyber Sub-Zero: how would you have done his story differently", and subsequently taking his word for gospel. If it was the case that a fan somehow ended up here in this clusterfuck of a debate and took his word for it, that's them being foolish when there's plenty of viable, legitimate resources they could find out there that would prove them wrong.

We speculate and discuss things on this website constantly, and if there's reason for debate so be it. If the word "Havik" translates to "Hawk", and zmoke recognises Avian features to his costume, allow him to believe that if he wants to. Not meaning to single him out here or anything, but so far he's the only person who does believe that. You don't need to get so hostile with him just because his perspective and view on a character are different to your own. I get that your trying to educate people but your tone's not helping your arguement at all, and really, you'd be ridiculous to think your single handedly saving the community and franchise with a few posts on a fan forum.

To be frank this topic isn't even about the origins of character's names, it's about Sub-Zero becoming a cyborg. So either take it up privately or create a new topic, because this stupid tiff on who's right and wrong is both boring, irrelevant and distracting away from the actual topic.

If he wants to think those thoughts in the privacy of his own head, he is welcome to do so.

But the moment he posts it here, it becomes public business and I'm gonna tell him "There's nothing bird-like on his costume, stop making shit up." every single time.

By that logic well then nothing would be discussed here at all. He's welcome to share those thoughts if they're MK related and he's under no obligation to keep his mouth shut just because you disagree with it.

If you want to disagree with him, by all means disagree with him, but do it in private messages as what you two are debating about has nothing to do with suggesting alternative outcomes for Sub-Zero's assimilation in MK9. That's all I'm saying in regards to the matter.

I'd like to see it happen, but I don't think that his big role will be reflected somehow in the actual storyline, besides few blurbs in someone biographies and the like.
I mean in MKA Sektor and his Tekunin were practically a world-wide threat, but this was barely reflected in the actual story. I think that as long as main storyline of MK is about conflict between other world sorcerers / monsters / gods, villains from Earth will receive minimum coverage and will be reduced to the seconadry roles most of the time. It's understandable, because gods / sorcerers are more interesting than some random thugs and cyborgs, however I'd like to see this tradition broken at least in one single game.


And the fans would hate it all the same, citing "it's not true Sub-Zero, true Subz could only human and nothing else". Changes.


It's rare case, but I am actually completely agree with that.
Such misinformation could actually hurt fandom, because newcomers could think that this bullshit is true and spread the lie further. And as consequence, we end up with something horrible like MK Wikia, full of rumors and unconfirmed shit.


That is the reason why I made my own MK Wikia and why articles locked to unregistered users: to stop misinformed people redacting artciles as the like. When I used MK Wikia as template for my own Wikia in the begining, I was genuinly amazed of how much wrong was with information on that site. Its like there are no editors / knowledgeable people at all. Or nobody just gives a damn.

I actually had an idea for some time to create an alternative English MK Wikia, that would be based only on "facts" and have unified design for everything. I thought that maybe RazorsEdge701 could have helped with the project as article supervisor, but I am not sure, if he would like to participate in this project.

Normally I would agree that an argument that's gone off-topic should move to PM and I would've done so by now, I was thinking about that myself last night...but this isn't a personal matter or a matter of opinion, the problem here is that common sense dictates that if someone misinforms people in a public forum then the correction of the lie must also be shared PUBLICALLY so the people will see it and cease to be deceived.



Y'know...I'm just not sure I have the free time. I've already agreed to help TyrantCenobite a bit with his own MK site, which'll have its own wiki, and I wasn't sure I had the free time THEN, so at this point I'm probably screwed.

You realize the reason he looked like that is he was possessed by Shao Kahn's ghost, right? I mean, I know there were no words in that one to explain what was going on, but the pictures were kinda self-explanatory.

So without being possessed by Kahn, I'm not sure why his bodyarmor would turn all evil spiky samurai-y and he'd get a giant icepick/hammer thing...