@ Espio.

I think it would just make more sense in general that IF they are going to team up Scorpion and Sub-Zero, it needs to be Kuai Liang.

That's what my dialogue was for. To express just how stupid it would be for Bi Han to team up with Scorpion. These two hated each other with a friggin passion. I don't care who it is, if i get brought back to life then I'm not ever teaming up with the person who killed me, Ever. Bi Han and Scorpion teaming up would be like Osama bin Laden teaming up with George Bush.lol. It'd be like water and oil mixing, it just don't work.

Kuai Liang wouldn't be so far out though, Kuai Liang is understanding. We know that about his personality. Now that he realizes what a dick Bi Han is, and if he found out that Bi Han killed Scorpion then he would realize that Scorpion isn't the bad guy. Also, they share a common enemy in Quan Chi. Quan hates Sub-Zero because he thinks Subz is one of the only ones who can stop him, and Scorpion hates Quan because he murdered his family. It would just make more sense in general for Kuai Liang and Scorpion to team up, than it ever would for Bi Han and Scorpion to team up.

Agreed. I would love it if each character had a personal chapter where their story was told, instead of getting a chapter through one long story. Like, in Story Mode, you choose a character and then plays through that certain character's storyline, getting a canon ending for that one character. After that, you can choose another character and then play through that character's storyline. That way, we get the whole story told from every character's perspective.

@Jaded
Exactly. That way not everyone has to be jumbled into this one huge story. Not everyone is involved in the main plotline.

Individual stories are a must if they ever want to get this story back on track. I loved DA's story where they had the combo challenges and through that they told the story.

I also think they could benefit from telling their story in a way such as Dead or Alive 4. I know others have seen me say this before, but I love how that game told their stories. Each character has their own individual stories with dialogue and all. They also got their own VIDEO endings. Which is awesome.

I just feel they are going all wrong with how they are trying to tell the story. It has been proven now that it's just not working for them. It's time to scrap it, and move on with a new way to tell it and I think they should call up whoever did Dead or Alive 4's story's to help and give them some pointers.

Also Jaded just see where you won't comment on your story for cyber subz. I'm just saying don't rehash stuff. Everyone seems to think Cyber Subz is change. Well if he's so big of a change then don't rehash an old story onto him. Give me an original story that hasn't been from Sub-Zero, Smoke, Cyrax, or Sektor's past. Because all of the stuff I restricted is just that, it's rehashed stuff, and since change is the reason for most cyber subz supporters then give me something that is not rehashed.

I agree with you 100%, it's why I don't really care that much now and why I haven't been participating much in the story discussions, like I used to, all of it is so bleh at this point....half of the cannon doesn't make sense from the established past, all the retcons, akk the plot holes, all the things that make zero sense.

I hope MK10 is good, but like you said, even if they rewrite things or whatever..MK9 still happened.

I didn't mean to give the impression that people shouldn't mind, because I understand why people do, i'm kind of still one of those people. I just don't think there should be too much stressing about Sub-Zero because Scorpion, Raiden, and Human Sub-Zero are practically guaranteed for any game, not trying to diminish anybody's concerns as that would be rude, but that's my thoughts on the whole CSZ situation.

You know I asked Dom Ciancolo on the Sindel scene through Twitter and his response was the scene's purpose was to destroy Liu Kang's faith in Raiden completely and set up their rooftop fight as Liu Kang believed it wouldn't have happened if they had been there. Of course, I then said that I felt killing off that many characters in one scene was wasteful and disrespectful to their stories. (And even then this just lead into another shock value death with Liu Kang)

He never responded to that.

If NRS had to care about every single fan's personal feelings about that scene, then they wouldn't have any time to spend with their kids.

I'm not saying he had to, but they were within relative quick distance of each other so it's not like I was keeping him from his kids. It was just curious was all.

I really wish Warner Bros. would allow a large Q&A discussion about this in a moderated, professional environment and allow relevant fan quesitons to be submitted to WB.

Irrespective of whether the story was a huge win or fail, it would be nice to get an understanding of the changes from the creators and their vision as well as how they wanted to portray characters.

If not that then it would be cool for them to release some type of story guide with selected interviews with the story team, concept art, and additional features.

Fact is they will never admit this story is bad. I mean ever, theyve got award nominations for it, and new fans that will kiss their a**es for as long as they possibly can. The old fanbase of the old storyline doesn't matter. God, I hate saying that, but we don't.

Also, just to clarify. Movies get awards all of the time, but that doesn't mean they're good. One good instance would be MTV movie awards. Yea it's Mtv, but still it caters to a large group of teens, and for the past three years the twilight movies have won best movie of the year. I watched a part of the first and fell asleep because of boredom and bad acting. Just saying awards, and award nominations are given all of the time. That doesn't mean they are deserved. Same with MK. Also, when you give an award nomination, like the screenwriters guild awards or whoever they are, then you really should read up on the material. If any of us would have been a critic and been on that board MK probably wouldn't have been nominated. Honestly there were other games out there that deserved that nomination more.

I want to have hope for the MK story line but I really have like .01% hope left that it can turn out good.

Also I agree with Razer's post, and Espio's response to that post. Even if MK10 is slightly good storywise, I can't unsee what I've already seen. Cyber Subz still happened. Mileena being a trashwhore, kid-minded, not even looking like Kitana clone. Raiden being an idiot, and all of a sudden having an amulet. Sindel killing EVERYONE. Also, another thing I just can't get over, but some can. Noob recognizing Sub-Zero as a cyborg, WTF seriously? That could be anybody for all he knows. I just can't forget it. any of it. It was horrible.

Perhaps we should get back on topic a bit though.

I already gave my theory that in the next game we find Sub-Zero in outworld, finding out that he never was automated. Rather the Lin Kuei left him for dead and took a DNA sample to make a cloned Sub-Zero. Thus creating Cyber Sub-Zero.

Then when Smoke breaks free from his demon form, he inhabits the clone's body. Thus creating Cyber Smoke. Bam, that part of the story is fixed.lol.

Just one possibility.

Those are some very good ideas, Essy, but for some reason WB have been very silent about all of this, so I don't think any of it would actually happen. It's a shame though, so many unanswered questions, so many secrets, and what for?

@ Jaded

Obviously you like Cyber Subz, but what is your stance on the story in general? Fan or no?

Do you agree with any of the mistakes I have listed, or not?

Also, I still want to hear your story for Cyber Subz. Just not a rehashed one.

Well, in general, I think it is by far the best told storyline of the entire series. It was beautifully crafted and mostly well-executed, but indeed not near perfect. However, it was really refreshing to see such storytelling skills put into a fighting game. Many of the characters finally had a chance to show their personalities and I think they hit spot on with many of those characters given that chance. Just to mention my personal favourite, I loved how Jade was handled in her chapter. Her attitude is exactly how I thought it should be like and I found her to be completely badass through and through.

Now, here's my beefs. Raiden was all over the place. I can understand how he would be off-track due to these visions and trying to do all in his might to figure out what the hell they meant. He wants to make Earthrealm a better place, he wants to get rid of Shao Kahn and he's got some hints from his future self how to do so, but he has a really hard time figuring out what it is and so the frustration builds up. It really comes through when they are all in the church and he yells out in pure frustration "Why is it not enough?!". I truly feel sympathy with him.

However, that does not explain some of his actions though. Why not try and hinder the Lin Kuei from grabbing Kuai Liang? Why heal Jax and not Liu Kang? Stuff like that made him look like a douche who had no idea what he was doing, and maybe he really didn't.

Then the retcons. First of all, Quan Chi had too big a role in everything. He was so out of character in this game that I have lost my interest in him and I used to love him as a villain. His appearance in this game completely undermined Shang Tsung's role and I utterly hated that. He should have simply been hiding behind the scene and pulled the strings from there.

Kitana meeting Mileena for the first time in the Flesh Pits was a cool scene, but it killed off the former storyline of Kitana and Mileena's relationship to one another. Also, Mileena looked too different from Kitana than she should.

Sheeva just being a jailor instead of acting like Sindel's bodyguard was a disappointment. She, Baraka and Reptile became nothing but punchbags in this game and I find that rather sad when others were given such great opportunities to shine through as characters.

Three retcons I kinda liked were Kano once being part of the Special Forces, Sindel sacrificing herself for the sake of protecting Earthrealm and Kabal being Stryker's partner. I think it gave some depth to those characters that were missing in the old timeline. Also, I don't mind that there were more characters as part of the first tournament than there were in the old timeline, such as Nightwolf, Sektor and Cyrax. I just wish the tournament itself was a bit more organized so it made more sense of who fought who.

The scene with Sindel totally murdering all the heroes - I love the concept of it, but it could have been executed alot better. It would have been alot more epic if the characters were more in character and actually put up a fight instead of just dying so fast. The way Nightwolf sacrificed himself to kill off Sindel was epic though, one of the best scenes in the entire game.

That all the heroes died is not something I worry about that much as death was never an end in MK, but opened a new path for those characters. Hence why I can't wait to see what will happen in the next game. I can still imagine Jade as a member of the Brotherhood of the Shadows... that would be so cool...

Anyways, let's wrap this up and discuss Cyber Subbie as this thread is for.
He traded place with Smoke. Raiden saved Smoke and that had consequences. Subbie was caught and turned into a cyborg. I wish Raiden, Smoke and Cage would at least attempt to prevent it though, instead of just standing there and do nothing. But anyways, Subbie was turned.

First of all, Subbie have the coolest cyborg look of the three.
Second, unlike so many others, I don't think this will end Subbie as we know him. I have said this so many times, but everyone seems to disagree with me and deem my opinion as unworthy or whatever, but I still think there are so much potential in this. He could go the old road to prove that even if he is a cyborg, he still has his humanity intact by fighting Sektor and take over the Lin Kuei in the name of protecting Earthrealm. Now that he is a cyborg, he has to prove that he is not just a mindless robot, but that he still has his soul.

Just because he is a cyborg does not mean he either have to fight to gain his humanity back, like Cyrax, or become an archvillain who wants to make everyone a cyborg, like Sektor. It would be unique if Subbie came to terms with his current existence and just made the best of it, using his new body and accepting that this is how he is now. That is how his humanity will shine through! He doesn't have to look human to be human. He showed his humanity when rescuing those soldiers in the clocktower and when he fought Noob. He is more than just the robot you guys make him to.

All this is of course assuming that he and the other dead heroes will be resurrected after the defeat of Shinnok and Quan Chi. Until then, yes, he will be a mindless drone controlled by Quan Chi to fight for Shinnok and his cause. I don't think that's a bad thing though, it just means that it will take time for those characters to evolve and as long NRS makes MK games, then I am sure they will indeed evolve.

As I have said before, the only thing I would change about Cyborg Sub-Zero would be his moveset. It should be alot more unique instead of copying others' moves. But other than that, I wouldn't touch a thing about him.

Alright, I have said my opinion about it... let the hate hail down upon me now, I'll go get my fortified umbrella.

that too much dialog to read JR.

I agree with the idea of a Q&A... but like the others have already said. This will follow on def ears at WB.

Face it, They have successfully appealed to the Tournament Scene. They don't give a fuck about the story anymore. As long as the gameplay is solid and people are playing it for the competitiveness then there content.

I mean im not mocking this because the game inself it the BEST Mortal Kombat ever... just lacking a good story

Well, it was for Scar who asked, not you, so it doesn't really matter what you think.

That's not what Cyrax is known for doing.



That IS what Cyrax is known for doing.

So...yeah, "unique" isn't the right word.

Then I must have misinterpreted Cyrax's storyline. I thought he fought for regaining his humanity.

Kill Raiden

It kind of his what Cyrax does though. I mean he joins the special forces, and pretty much accepts that he's a cyborg, and there's nothing he can do about it. So he continues on and makes the best of what he's got.

That's why I wanted you to come up with an original story though Jaded, simply to prove the fact that there's only so many ways the Cyborg route can turn out. If your not human, you just lack the emotion that it takes to be a character. Which is why it was never neccessary to keep the cyborgs for every game because they lack the overall neccessities of making a good story, because they aren't human.

That's the case with any cyborg though, not just Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero just had an epic story, in my opinion, last time and that's why so many people are so mad at this. It really didn't need touched, and others did. That's what's frustrating. You think with this going back in time thing, they would fix characters who need it, instead they just f**k up characters who really don't need any help at all.

Also on his appearance, Yea cyber subz looks cool now. But after about five games of him never changing it will start to suck. I've already said that the cyborgs change the least out of any character appearance wise over the games, and that's simply because they can't. They're cyborgs. So that's another reason against Cyber Subz for me, contrary to the belief he brings about change, his appearance will never change again. I'm also not one of those who want NINJA sub-zero brought back. If i see him unmasked in the next game I will like it. If he's in his Deception gear, I will be even happier because that's my favorite attire. Sub-Zero has changed so many times, that it's crazy. I'm just afraid with the cyber route he will never CHANGE again. Ninja to Unmasked to Old Man to Shredder. He's covered a lot of different looks, this cyber one worries me though. While speaking on appearance though. I have a vision for Sub-Zero's appearance. I want someone to change the color of Ermac's alternate attire. Make it mostly blue. With the pants being black. Add an Ice Mask. Like Sub-Zero's arms once were, just a mask of ice. Make the red trim on it white. Also cut the sleeves off of the attire as well and let his ice arms show through. Give Subz huge belt from MK9 as well to the attire. Also change the green eyes to blue. Give him Sub-Zero's boots from MK9 as well as his Shoulder guards. Basically a mix of Ermac's alt, Sub-Zero's main, and Sub-Zero's alt from DA. with a mask made of ice.

Anyway, back on topic. It was just a bad decision. Smoke, Sektor, and Cyrax had the tracks of cyborg covered. Why make another one out of one of your most popular characters, it just makes you wonder if they think, or if they even care. Sektor is evil, which would make Sub-Zero going evil just a blue Sektor. Cyrax has accepted it, and is now fighting for good, so Sub-Zero can't do that. Smoke was the tragic one, who just wanted his humanity back. That's about the only options you can go with for a cyborg. So I guess Sub-Zero is just bound to take on Smoke's story now though. I'm hoping this time they make a fourth option. The cyborg regains his humanity.

None of us truly know what's going to happen, I'm simply saying that Cyborg Sub-Zero just doesn't seem like the smartest decision on their part. Another reason I hate Cyborg Sub-Zero, and it may sound stupid. I almost question whether they did this to him to give all popularity to Scorpion. Sub-Zero was the only one left who could steal some spotlight from Scorps, not anymore though.lol. That and they had Scorpion beat the hell out of Sub-Zero so many times up until release, and they had him kill Sub-Zero on the bookends. Hell, Sub-Zero was like the punching bag to everyone up until release. It's sad how they treated him this time around honestly.

Lol. What do you mean by this?

Raiden is doing more harm than good at this point, his terrible decisions because of those visions caused the deaths of Earthrealm's best warriors:

-Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Sub-Zero, Smoke, Jax, Stryker, Kabal, Nightwolf

In the original timeline, who was dead by the end of MK3?

-Johnny Cage


Sure, Shao Kahn will no longer be the one who will win out in Armageddon, but you got Shinnok, Quan Chi, possibly Noob Saibot, (not Onaga, nobody wants to bring him back because he's the biggest threat to the villains ruling the realms, besides with how weak Outworld and Earth is, no need for his army).


Raiden is responsible for putting Earthrealm under more danger than ever before, if it takes a Shujinko, Scorpion, or Fujin to take him out, so be it. These visions Raiden is sending himself, while for good intentions, has not resulted in the desired effects. Kill him. Can't make things any more worse than they already are right? Earthrealm is screwed against the might of the Netherrealm, unless Raiden decides to send another message to his past self, but will that be any better?

I'm for it honestly. I want Raiden to be the main bad guy in a game though. I'm thinking after MKX have Raiden be the biggest threat to Earth ever. Since he can't stop the visions from happening, He will just destroy Earth all together. Thus causing everyone to have to stop him.

The thing is though, a god can't die. Wasn't this proved in Deception when he just ressurected himself?

Either way I agree with you though. Armageddon is most definitely not stopped, not even postponed. It just means Raiden will allow Earth to suffer before it happens this time around.lol. They would have to stop Blaze from awakening I believe. So Raiden hasn't stopped anything. Just changed a bunch of stuff that didn't need changing.lol

Well, you got my opinion and I stand by it. So we just have to agree to disagree. ^^

@Jaded

It's cool. We don't all agree on everything. You like cyber subz and that's cool. I would have liked him too if I didn't feel he single handedly ruined my favorite character.lol. Seriously I'm screwed up. When most kids grew up they like Superman or Batman or some other superhero. Some looked up to sports stars, or celebrities. I liked Sub-Zero. He just seemed like the guy who had messed up, but got his life straightened out and set himself apart from a group that he knew wouldn't bring him anything good. Then when they tried to get back at him he escaped, even though he lost his friend, and came back to beat the piss out of the one who ran that group later. I don't know it just speaks to me. He's a symbol of overcoming bad stuff in your life. Leaving a group that will kill you for leaving. Has his best friend since childhood turned into a cyborg, and his friend then hunts him. Teach a girl the ways in which you control ice, only to have her turn on you. Had countless people try to kill him(Scorpion, Hotaru, Noob, Smoke, Sektor, Cyrax, a friggin band of Tarkatans). Had your own brother revealed to be an evil a**hole trying to control the pits of hell. Now if that's not overcoming a lot of crap. I don't know what is.lol

Anyways, Cyber Subz does look cool don't get me wrong, and if he was

A. a clone
B. Bi Han's body
C. A complete robot
D. Hydro

I would like him. See there's a lot of different ways they could have went with cyber Subz. However, they had to go that route, and now I just can't like the character.

I by no means want to persuade anyone else not to like him though. I just simply like to voice my opinion as one of those who don't like him. Because if you want something changed, that's really all you can do. Voice your opinion and hope someone hears or sees it.

I also still stand by my belief that the cyborgs have been covered as well though, and that anything they do will pretty much be rehashed stuff. There's just not many routes you can go with it. Even if Sub-Zero does the stuff he did in the past now, it will be stupid. Why? Because people are going to think, could he not have done this as a human? Plain and simple, they should have just let Sub-Zero and Smoke escape this time around.

Avada Kadavar!!!


This is a good opportunity for Fujin to get some shine too, Fujin I hope starts off with more of a bureaucratic approach to the mortals and eventually comes to really truly care for them.

My mental message to Raiden is.... Don't FUCK the timeline....