I look at all the character development Kuai Liang went through, then I compare it to 'places he can go through after being put through the conversion process'. I see basically three options - He becomes a mindless assassin droid, for which we've already got Sektor, he regains his humanity - which happened to Cyrax already - or absolute best scenario, he regains awareness but not his body, and learns how to live with his automation. That opens up another problem.

Considering how they would just - not - have a game that does not feature a main fixture of the series, its resident blue ice-throwing ninja - it would mean he'd be reverted in time for the next game, or yet another Sub-zero rises for the role. Why bother? It's either a very temporary change which involves recycling the other cyborgs' plot threads from the orginal timeline, or another mantle-passing for yet another new Sub-Zero.

There is just no way in hell an MK game comes out without a human Sub-Zero. NRS knows it. This is why, to me making him a robot is an exercise in futility; it involves either recycling the plotlines of the old cyber-ninjas - and how anyone can say there's actual, real change is happening when that's going on is beyond me - or creating an entirely new Sub-Zero altogether. And like you said; we have an assload. Do we really need a third?

I remain in the boat that this new cyborg is a figure introduced to add an extra layer of drama to Kuai Liang's life. Hell, if it's someone like his father or sister, it's basically a free pass to avoid Smoke being mechanized, getting character development, and still having Sub go through the drama of losing a loved one to automation.

Wow i haven't been on for a day and everything goes crazy over this! lol I'm not sure how i feel about cyber sub zero. I feel like this could be fake. Guess i'll just wait until i play the game to find out.

*don't look* *don't look* *don't look* *oh, fuck it*
meh, it sounds totally believable until the last one. if its legit, then great. 5 hidden fighters can only be good. and its not exactly spoiled it for me, it doesnt say how or where to find them. i'll just know to look out for them now.

tbh though, i simply can't believe that just a day after the achievements were revealed all 10 secret ones were leaked? seems a bit fake to me.

Well, the secret achievements were always on the list, but no-one thought to go to the print-version to see if they were there lol.

6/3/11 - the day achievements broke MKO.

Shi.... this threads gotten to 23 pages in less than 3 days, crap!


Now, i still think some of the real hidden chars, and fights are not shown in these achivements.

Less than three days?

Less than twenty-four hours!

@Shad; Like I said, there's no hope for you if you claim to know every possible avenue and its quality. It's a bold and ignorant claim. You could effectively use that excuse to eliminate any possible deviation from the original time line, and in doing so negate the purpose of doing a reboot. Example: "Liu Kang losing is stupid, because someone "good" has to win anyway, it might as well be him. He's the hero, he's the dragon, he's on the cover".

Altering the original turn of events is the primary function of a reboot. To either right something that went wrong, or at the very least provide a more interesting story to compliment the original. Bear in mind that Sub Zero getting armor and crying over frost and beating up Tarkata in the wastes is never going anywhere, its always there for anyone who plays Deception. The same way as all those people clinging to their Star Wars DVDs where Han shoots first.

You say "there's no way MK would do this" when they've done it before. They've been doing it since day one. Remember when MK2 had no Sonya / Kano? Remember when MK3 had no Scorpion? Remember when MK4 had no nobody? Remember when MKDA had no Liu Kang? etc. . etc all down the line.

Now you may say, they retconned all those decisions anyway because they were "dumb" but if you eliminate their ability to at least explore and tinker with characters, what is the point of doing a reboot? Are you saying they're allowed to dick with Nightwolf and Kai and Tanya and Dairou and Hornbuckle because nobody cares about them and they change nothing? Then whats the point. MKA still happens the exact same way if you don't dick with the principal players, and Sub Zero is one of them.

Of course if the argument is purely that a "reboot" is dumb, well thats an entirely different debate which I can't refute because there's evidence on both sides. But you cannot logically state that based on a successful history of radical change, this impending radical change is better or worse than another.

I would like to see your idea of what is an "acceptable" change to Sub Zero, Scorpion, Liu Kang, Sonya, Shang Tsung, Raiden, etc. . .and then tell me in the grand scheme of things what would that accomplish.

I'm excited and welcome the thought of Cyber Sub-Zero. I think it adds an interesting twist to the plot line and I'm very interested to see how he looks and plays! You guys never know, it could very well be the best thing for Sub! You don't know until you play it and see for yourself!

Hidden Fatalities - SICK!!! I'm glad that Mortal Kombat is sticking to its hidden treasures! And hopefully characters will have more than 2 fatalities... I'm still thinking that Brutalities and Friendships are in the game!

Hidden Fighters - Same as above! Glad to see the hidden treasures and can't wait to uncover them and unlock the fighters! Brotherhood of Shadow achievement sounds quite intriguing and I'm hoping it's Sareena. As far as the other hidden fighter achievements... don't really have any idea as who they could be and I don't think NRS is going to make Reptile, Jade, or Smoke hidden characters (well maybe Smoke since we haven't seen him yet)

Having to unlock Quan Chi is pretty sweet as well and I'm glad he's in this game!

Mileena's Best... Alternate... Ever - Sounds sweet, but don't know where people are getting the idea that she's nude. Hopefully it is the best alternate ever haha!

The only function of this particular reboot is to retcon the fuckup that was Armageddon from existence. This is a noble endeavor,but it shouldn't come at a price of the character with the richest backstory and best development in the entire franchise.

You don't change stuff BECAUSE NEW HERPA DERP. Liu Kang's death in MKDA served a purpose and had a dramatic impact on pretty much everyone who knew him.

It was good writing. It was taking a bold step forward.

Ruining Sub-Zero entire character development before it even really begins and turning him into another fucking cyborg?

That's bad writing. It's taking ten steps forward and nine steps back.


The only reason I'm not worried about this as much anymore is because after MKDA and Deception,I have a lot of faith in Vogel. I trust him enough to think that he of all people probably knows what he's doing. This is the man made Noob Saibot relevant and actually almost semi-salvaged the plot of Armageddon,for chrissakes. If there's anyone who can take the ludicrous "ZOMG CYBER ZERO" idea and turn it into something worthwhile,it's him.

It's okay to change this but not change that is just the worst argument ever. Especially for something as fluid and ancillary as a plot device. Really. Why don't you tell me who it is okay to change and who is isn't? Is Scorpion off limits too? Because in MKDA he got murdered by nobodies in the basement.

Just about everyone has been dead at some point, about half of the good guys have taken a turn at being evil, and half the villains have done the inverse. The hero got killed in DA and the rest of the good guys lost in DE. Baraka and Mileena have probably bumped sharp toothy uglies but also want to tear each other apart. Raiden became and Elder God and then quit an hour later. Johnny Cage has not only been killed and resurrected multiple times he has within canon filmed movies acknowledging this aspect of his life. Motaro fought a god to earn back his goddamned legs and Ashrah's once holy demon purifying sword is now an evil anti-vampire god.

If you can provide a better argument against csz than "BUT ITS SUBZERO!!111!1 eleven", that hasn't already been used to enable any of the above please do.

Well I still doubt taht YSZ will be turned in Cyber Zero for canon. either it is a What if character, which would suck, or the elder brothers body or wtf else.

NRS and WB would never kill off the last NINJA Sub. Elder is already Noob, so he can't take over once again.

Really looking forward for it. But if it is a What if character it would suck heavy balls. Bringing up a "new" character and hypehim just to make him non canon is shit

*Reads topic*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM&feature;=related

Ed just successfully pulled a Babality on like 90% of you.

LOL! Why is everyone so mad about Cyber-Zero? It's probably not gonna be canon, they probably just did it as a joke because of all those guys at the beginning. Heck, why are we even accepting this as the absolute truth, NRS could be messing with us. And even if they're not, like I said before, who cares?

I'm more exited about the Best..ALT...Ever (As if we don't all know what THAT'S gonna be!)

Just read this entire thread...sort of. Win.

I'm not gonna pass judgment on "Cyber-Zero" until I know exactly what's happening. Yeah for hidden characters! This game has me so worked up.

Don't worry, Cyber Sub is really just Smoke. He won't have Sub's moves and it will confuse you at first until you realize he has a spear move and a teleport uppercut. He will also blow up Earth over and over.

On a serious note, I guess if there was someone that is a new cyborg that wasn't before like Ed hinted long ago, Sub Zero WOULD make the most sense due to the Lin Keui. I will personally take this as a *possibly* cool new alternate until I see otherwise and am not going to freak out about canon and non-canon and how this will affect the the future of Mortal Kombat for generations to come. And if he really is a whole other character and not and alternate with his own set of moves, I will welcome it and call him Smoke.

Has anyone mentioned this possible being Hydro and them just calling him Cyber Sub-Zero sarcastically for teh lulz?

Dammit. How do you retain all of that shit. Is there a website that has all of the mythos?

Injecting Quan Chi into Sub plots of the MK story really adds to the complexity and the confusion. I'm really starting to hate him.

Sort of.

Younger Subbie is never going anywhere. He'll be in MK10 and onward. Thatdoesnt mean we cant have a CyberSubbie also.

Why the hell does everyone assume that having a Cyber Sub = No Ninja Sub?

Don't be simple.

If they do as well of a job with him as with the rest of the released cast, then It's all good. It is their game, after all. So many people have been complaining about Scorpion and Sub-Zero, so it's great to see those same people defending him all of a sudden. (if it's true!)

When you have actual proof, I'll be listening.

I'm still thinking that Cyber Sub has a better chance of being non-canon than canon, if anything, as a throw-back to Classic Sub-Zero and Human Smoke in UMK3/MKT.

I must be the only one that did not like Young Sub-Zero's story post-MK4. He turned into a complete Mary Sue and his adventures read as bad as a Shounen Jump manga. He even got a "mid-season upgrade" in his story.

If they make him a Cyborg I will be happy since they have a chance at steering his story away from the "jumping the shark" moment for him that is MK Deadly Alliance.

Yes, character development is a terrible thing.

I was thinking, if the Lin Kuei could replace the original Sub Zero with his younger brother, couldn't they replace the younger brother as well? I mean the Lin Kuei are pretty big clan and Sub Zero fights in a tournament where the loser dies, I guess they wouldn't send their grandmaster and best fighter to almost certain death without a B plan. I'm just saying that if Sub Zero ends up as Cyber Zero, the Lin Kuei could replace him with another cryomancer and give him the title of Sub Zero.