Fenix Wrote:


I don't even get where you're going with this. Sales figures don't equal good gameplay. Nor does wether or not the SRK community deems it worthy of admission to their annual fighting fest. You're using Melty Blood, a game FULL of gimmicks and meters, as an example against MK, which has taken 8 games to add a simple super meter in a question of gimmickyness?

I'm not trying to argue or even disagree, I'm just trying to understand what went so wrong with MKvDC that people are using as an assumption that MK9 will be terrible. I personally don't know, because I stopped playing that game long before it got competitive, but from what I have heard the problem was not that any of the systems were inherently broken, just (as always) short sighted. Moves with too much priority, too little priority, too high damage, launch too high or too low, too much stun, stuff like that.

That kind of stuff has nothing to do with gimmicks, and everything to do with MK having an absolutely abysmal excuse for a testing phase. MK doesn't get loc tests, betas, world wide releases, or even have a dedicated testing department. Nothing on par with what Capcom, Sega, Namco, or even SNK can throw at their games. Nearest I can tell, Paolo Garcia and John Edwards represent the entire MK testing staff. IMO, that's why they keep coming out broken.

Maybe if Warner Bros is willing to give them the time and resources to a) test, and b) patch their game, we could have a winner on our hands.

TheBigCityToilet Wrote:
how is a super meter and super moves a "gimmick" nowadays?

To me it's like calling a double jump a gimmick in a platformer, or a season mode in a wrestling game, or a big noob-friendly gun in a FPS...they've been there for ages.

Benzo2010 Wrote:


It's a gimmick for a series where the original concept for the game was to capture real motion and use actual "REAL" life characters.

khanswarrior15 Wrote:
I know that is probably extremely early, but has there been any tier discussion thus far?

The game is still in an early state, however, my curiosity is peaked.

Care to share thoughts/ opinions?

TheBigCityToilet Wrote:

MK was only real in the sense that it LOOKED real.

But it was never down to earth or realistic, not a game where a lizard man can fight a guy with knives in his arms.

Benzo2010 Wrote:All I'm saying it that MK isn't taken serious anymore. That's the point i'm trying to make to EVERYONE. And why is that? It's because they've gotten so far away from the original recipe. Mk vs DC wasn't the worst game I've played but it definately wasn't the best either. I mean 3D walking holding a button? Close quarters combat? Free fall combat? I didn't know if I were playing a comic book or an cartoon series. And to make matters worse, to justify the DC characters beating the living crud out of each other they added rage? Seriously? Are we so fanish we can't come to the realization that everything about that game disgraced MK and everything it stands for? I feel like I'm doing the series a favor by being so critical, I love the MK series and I really want it to be a household title again.

TheBigCityToilet Wrote:
He means "taken seriously by the general public". Which isn't gonna happen, fighting games are a weaker genre now and don't sell as much.

According to Wikipedia, Kirby is a bigger franchise than both MK and SF, and it isn't even a top five Nintendo series. It gets half the promotion of any Capcom joint.

No, what you're talking about isn't just a problem with MK. Fighters just aren't as hot anymore

TheBigCityToilet Wrote:
He means "taken seriously by the general public". Which isn't gonna happen, fighting games are a weaker genre now and don't sell as much.

According to Wikipedia, Kirby is a bigger franchise than both MK and SF, and it isn't even a top five Nintendo series. It gets half the promotion of any Capcom joint.

No, what you're talking about isn't just a problem with MK. Fighters just aren't as hot anymore

Benzo1234 Wrote:
MK TEAM...stop trying to make a quick pay day and make a quality fighter that will last for the next 5 years

Skaven13 Wrote:
Right. Back to gameplay. The newest interview with Hector Sanchez with Gamespot Australia has him stating that there will be NO dial-a-combos in this game. I could have sworn that I read elsewhere that he or Boon stated there will still be a few small ones in the game. Can anyone confirm one or the other?

Skaven13 Wrote:
Right. Back to gameplay. The newest interview with Hector Sanchez with Gamespot Australia has him stating that there will be NO dial-a-combos in this game. I could have sworn that I read elsewhere that he or Boon stated there will still be a few small ones in the game. Can anyone confirm one or the other?

Fenix Wrote:
I didn't see it really posted in here, but this is a second Hector run presentation that kinda covers the same territory as the first, but also has a ton of real gameplay during a tag mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbNdOgqvgZo

You can see throw escapes, a lot of the pro moves, and some of those command attack looking weapon moves, didn't really see any wakeups though. Still, looking fairly solid.

SubMan799 Wrote:
I've noticed there is no gameplay discussion on these boards. I figured I might as well start one.

Some quick info for people who aren't familiar with fighting game termonology.

Juggle: The player combos a character while the victim is still in the air. The player literally juggles the character around in the air.

Wake Up: When a player is lying down on the floor they can choose whether to roll away, attack, or do nothing upon getting up. For 2D fighters this is usually not implemented.

Overhead Attack: An attack that hits opponents that are blocking low.

Damage Scaling: This is when hits in a combo do less and less damage as the combo goes on. It is a universal element in all fighters

50/50 or Wake Up Game: A common element in 2D games. When a player knocks an opponent on the floor, the players decides what to do when the opponent gets up. They can perform and overhead attack, sweep attack, cross up, grab or any other move. The victim must guess what the opponent is going to use and defend against it accordingly.

Frames: In the most basic sense, this is how fast a move comes out. Frame advantage is when one move comes out quicker than another.

Recovery Frames: This is the animation after a move is done. Moves like Scorpion's Spear has a lot of recovery frames and is deemed unsafe, while a move like Kabal's air fireball has almost no recovery frames.

Punisher: When an opponent is in recovery frames, a player can dish out damage, or "punish" the opponent with a huge combo. Moves like Ermac's teleport punch can be punished when blocked for a huge combo.

Safe: When a move has a few recovery frames. Moves like a regular jab are considered safe.

Anti Air: Anti Air, often abbreviated AA, is a move that deals damage to incoming airborne opponents. Think of Ryu's Shoryuken.

Pop Up or Launcher: A move that launches the opponent into the air, setting up a juggle

Dash/Run: A dash is a quick movement forward. A run is when your character runs forward towards the enemy.

Throws/Techs: A throw is a move that goes through blocks. Techs are included in street fighter. It is when a character cancels an opponent's throw

HP, HK, LP, LK: High Punch, High Kick, Low Punch and Low Kick respectively.

Command Attacks: An attack that is unique to the character. It is not a special move. This has not been implemented in the 2D MK games

Scrub: Basically an asshole that thinks they are really good at fighters, when in reality they are just terrible


I think I've got enough down for now. If you got anything else I can add to the list then just post it. I'm sure I forgot something important.
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Now onto the main discussion.

One thing that MK has never done successfully is give each character individuality. MKDA-MKA failed to do this. Prior to these games, every character was basically the same. Sindel and Kung Lao are basically the same when you take away their specials and dial-a-combos.

EDIT 6/18: From the gamespot hands on, we now know that each character will be very unique and play completely different. Nice one MK team!

Characters need to have varying amounts of health. And their attacks should have different ranges, power and frames. Without individuality, the game becomes shallow as every character will play the same.

Give each character command attacks. Kung Lao could have a command overhead where he attacks the opponent with his hat. Baraka can have his blades out all the time to give him more range then other characters

Another thing that MK has never done is add a grapple character. A character that mainly uses command throws. If they plan on adding new characters, add a grappler!

Kombo Breakers, if added to this game, need very special care. You don't want it so that they are common and ruin the tempo of the game, and you also don't want it to be so sparse that its never seen and not viable. The way they did it in MKDC was alright, but maybe make it a bit harder to fill the meter for Kombo Breakers.

EDIT 6/18: Another thing the MK team nailed. Congrats

So there are some of my ideas. I might post some more ideas as I get them. Also note that we are not discussing fatalities, costumes, stages, ect. as they do not add anything to the gameplay

Interesting video. This shows Sektor combo-ing into an X-Ray move, The X-Ray move is scaled heavily and the combo only deals about 40% damage. Nice job MK.

Skaven13 Wrote:
You know what else is cute? People that come on an MK site, throwing around insulting inuendos, immediately assuming they are something special because obviously the ONLY games that people play on an MK website are MK games and NOT any other fighters, so they can't possibly know ANYTHING.

Frame advantage does NOT just have to do when a move is blocked. It also comes in handy when a move connects as well. What the OP described is a basic definition of frame advantage, and by no means "incorrect". Perhaps incomplete, but so was your definition.
Some basic primers:

http://scrubsport.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t;=28

http://sf4answers.com/questions/117/what-does-frame-advantage-and-frames-mean

If you're gonna help, please don't be an elitist jerk about it. Thanks.