SalvidonBlak Wrote: relentless on shang... just dosn't give him a second. i love it, i love offence. i take that back, the soild pattern is that everytime shang is out of reach, Drahmin does the ground pound... a jump kick would be the only way to stop it,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(1) DAB had chances(!) (albeit the windows of opportunity were very small!) to start a high/low mix-up....if you notice DAB never attempted any sweeps or crazy sidestepping-what Shang Tsung is known for!! i bet if DAB had it to do over again, constant sidestepping and sweeps would be part of his repertoire...
(2) there IS a difference in the animation for the flies and ground-pound...if you are used to seeing it, you can select the appropriate move on reaction...i suspect DAB hadn't played many Drahmins (especially not one as aggressive as MKL's)...
(3) i was a little surprised at drahmin's low pokes (shin strikes) and their recovery on block...one in particular in iron club that DAB successfully blocked and immediately retaliated (3,3,2), but MKL successfully blocked the retaliation...either that move is a VERY safe poke for Drahmin, or the retaliation from DAB wasn't fast enough; i prefer to think the former and not the latter...
peace out bros.
TWAH!

You can thank JRF for the vid...he'll put up the rest soon (maybe today?).

I don't think you can techroll out of any of Drahmin's juggles...making a ground pound guaranteed and a powerup extremely useful as a high/low getup game. You get hit low and there goes 25%...you get hit high and you're in for at least 50% with a ground pound combo...I don't think that DAB expected that Shang's Crane 3,3,2 would end up killing him!



This same setup works extremely well with other charcters with Powerups...Kenshi is a prime example, Katana 3,3 (do two to juggle higher and recover fast enough), cs,cs, Neijin, then cs,cs...now you can mix up b+4 and 3~b,d,b+1 as they get up...too good. Sub-Zero, Nitara, Kano...the list goes on. Maybe in MK6, we'll have rising attacks to nullify this problem...but for now it's a part of the game so abuse it.

MKL also talked about how any move can track sidesteppers...hold up then attack, there is no escape. A good example of this is Cage's Nunchuck 1,1,1,1 combo...if you block that, Cage recovers quickly and his most likely next move will be to sidestep your attack...if you hold up then attack you will be able to track him and have the advantage. For characters with moves that include up, hold up for the track then go neutral right before you press the button to get the desired attack.

MKL is the man

Drahmin 78% combo anywhere on the screen:
Iron Club; Neijin, Propeller Clock, cs~cs~2, uf+kick, Ground Pound, 2, f,f+2 (last hit misses unless in corner, which would make it 80%)

The combo registers 58%, then 20%...if you do the Ground Pound too early you won't get the 20%, but if you do it too late it won't be guaranteed.

to bishops defence, JRF told me bishop was not used to the ps2 controllers (or sticks)as he only played the game on cube. i think that makes a big difference (not that it would have changed the outcome of the match).

Different controls make a huge difference in your game. I can't play Tekken with a PSX pad...must have joystick!

Konqrr Wrote: MKL is the man

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
nah...he just got lucky....lol.
(ultimate scrub response: "if I had been there, he would've had some real comp."...lol....)

editorial note: those drahmin low pokes aren't THAT safe...DAB just didn't respond fast enough....guess it's a 'gamecube' thing...
peace out bros...TWAH!

Konqrr Wrote: Different controls make a huge difference in your game. I can't play Tekken with a PSX pad...must have joystick!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ahhhh.. the old 'i just can't play with the d-pad' or 'i just can't play with the sticks' or 'man if i had my d-pad you'd be sorry' routine....c'mon kelly kel! ()...lol...guess if the game goes online, i hope you have your sticks, 'cause i don't wanna win on a technicality!! lmfao!
peace out bros...TWAH!

I'm serious...wgf and especially ewgf are basically non-existant in my pad game...I stay far away from crouchdashing characters when I use one. If I do manage one, you can see it a mile away, lol

ugh..its late im tired i dblposted... i suck

Konqrr Wrote: MKL also talked about how any move can track sidesteppers...hold up then attack, there is no escape. A good example of this is Cage's Nunchuck 1,1,1,1 combo...if you block that, Cage recovers quickly and his most likely next move will be to sidestep your attack...if you hold up then attack you will be able to track him and have the advantage. For characters with moves that include up, hold up for the track then go neutral right before you press the button to get the desired attack. MKL is the man

wow, i havn't tried that yet, but it makes so much goddamn sense i can't believe i never noticed it before.

that explains so much.

manny, manny thanks for this information.

devilgene Wrote: (1) DAB had chances(!) (albeit the windows of opportunity were very small!) to start a high/low mix-up....if you notice DAB never attempted any sweeps or crazy sidestepping-what Shang Tsung is known for!! i bet if DAB had it to do over again, constant sidestepping and sweeps would be part of his repertoire...

i just meant that he was so agressive in his attack. it was a very imposing showing, and shang seemed overwhelmed.

i like when battles are played out that way.

Konqrr Wrote: Different controls make a huge difference in your game. I can't play Tekken with a PSX pad...must have joystick!

Yeeeeaaahhh!
thats right, don't listen to a word they say about the stick.
those cretins will never understand the true power of such an instrument.

'...it is an elegant weapon, of a more... civilized age.'-Old Ben Kenobi

SalvidonBlak Wrote: Konqrr Wrote: Different controls make a huge difference in your game. I can't play Tekken with a PSX pad...must have joystick! Yeeeeaaahhh! thats right, don't listen to a word they say about the stick. those cretins will never understand the true power of such an instrument.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(rollz eyez)......
TWAH!!!

devilgene Wrote: (rollz eyez)...

lol, if I played you with a controller...then later played you with a joystick, you'd see a huge improvement. Trust me...it's not an excuse, at least not in my case.

huge differance between the job your fingers perform when using the two diff paripherals.

my left forefinger refuses to work those shoulder buttons...

and why shouldn't it, i've trained my left hand to operate the stick, for ten years, since my first case of muscle aches in my wrist at D.G.'s Arcade in Warwick, on MK1.

the stick is far superior in way of control, the fireballs are all in the wrist.

people grab em like their working their schlong at home, and then say 'aw this sucks'...

no no no, you gotta finese that thing.

three fingers is all you use...
forefinger, middle and thumb.
and your right hand works like if you were using a keyboard,


each finger serves its purpose from it's position, and it does it's job that way in the most efficient manner it can be done (once you get the feel for it).


i'm tellin you, the stick is where it's at...

and unless i am mistaken i saw MKL with one in his hand in the TiT pics.

a quality one at that from the look.

You said it...

MKL uses an MAS Super Pro Stick for the PS2.

i don't know 'bout you guys, but i prefer using a d-pad as opposed to a joystick. in tekken, i can do bryan's chains of misery better in a d-pad. when i connect an arcade joystick peripheral in a ps2, i become uneasy trying to do some stuff in mkda, and i can't quite do what i do with steve and marduk (t4) and such... oh well, different strokes...

About the controls thing...joysticks at home are, for the most part, different from arcade joysticks. What I mean is that for whatever reason, controls you have at home work perfectly...arcade controls rarely ever work right, whether it's no diagonals or a broken button...whatever. I have no problem wavedashing or Bryan's COM with any of my home sticks...I hate to keep bringing up Tekken in this thread...

Wow, this post seems to be dead apart from the controller conversations jk Finally, finally had some comp last week. Played a nice Drahmin, can't say much 'bout it, the d-man has got the PC, BOF and GP which he can mix up with a few low moves but nothing that safe. He can do major damage though and one has to watch out for pitbull drahmins (cough MKL cough Seems like he's not that much of a distance fighter after all... With scorpion I lost only once though, it has been said before by konqrr but I'll say it again 2,2,4 is where it's at... At 'high level' (although I don't consider myself a HL player) U won't get the chance to do those long combos and the 2,2,4 can make for some serious mind games... a 4 to follow up if they block low, or a d+4, HF, or swith to pi gua and b+2 and all that HF galore, too good, too good!!! Hey, I even surprised the guy when I did only one 2 and a HF as fast as I could, lol. When I picked SZ I had a really, really hard time fighting Drahmin, the dragon d+4 is overrated IMO or am I using it wrong? Any tips on helpin my SZ I also want to learn BO, everybody's saying he's so good but I can't seem to get his 'flow' right... Oh and when some of U dedicated mkda fans out there has the time, maybe make a mid/low move list for every char, after all that's the mix up game U'll be seeing a lot... Having spent a lot of time with mkda I can now tell it's a very fun game with more depth than the other MK's but still a pretty shallow fighter. Off topic: what other fighters are u guys looking forward to? I think I'm gonna go for SCII it looks really, really cool. I haven't played SCI and reading the fora on soulcalibur.com it seems a very deep game. I guess it'll take a lot of time 'learning' the game. A gain, what do u think of SCII and what other fighters have your interest? (till mk6 that is, lol)

timco Wrote: dragon d+4 is overrated IMO or am I using it wrong?

Dragon d+3 = move stuffer

Oh yeah, I meant the dragon d+3, but how exactly should I use it in my game? I find the range too small and although it's fast I can't seem to user it against agressive players...other tips for SZ btw?

I don't rush in just so I can do Dragon d+3, in the match vids I put up of me vs my brother I did it just because he doesn't know how to escape it ...use it like you'd use d+2 in Tekken (there I go again o_O) to interrupt attacks. It hits low and recovers instantly.

There are several moves you can use safely with Sub-Zero...Shotokan d+3, which you can Backdash Cancel (BDC) out of; b,f+4 is quick and quite safe; Kori 3 is an excellent juggle starter, do it like this...3, cs,b+2, cs,1,2,cs for easy damage. I don't think you can techroll the Kori 3 juggle (been awhile...), so you can hit them with that then cs,cs,powerup for some good high/low mixups.

Thanks man, I'll practice him next week...Like I asked before in a previous post which fighter are U (and other people of course)looking forward to? What do u think of SCII btw?

timco Wrote: which fighter are U looking forward to? What do u think of SCII btw?

Guilty Gear X3 (cuz it's gonna be PS2's first online fighter)

I love SC2...but I really suck at it. Goddam Astaroth hits you 4 times and it's over.

Konqrr Wrote: I love SC2...but I really suck at it. Goddam Astaroth hits you 4 times and it's over.

Lol, yeah he looks mean...I'm going to get it when it comes out though. Looks like there's also a lot of 1p fun. As for GGX3, I have a gamecube so I can't get it. After MK2 and SSF2T I lost my interest in 2d fighters btw. Maybe if something totally original comes out I'll give it a go...

off topic: metroid prime ROCKZ!

timco Wrote: Maybe if something totally original comes out I'll give it a go... off topic: metroid prime ROCKZ!

You should really check out GGX2, it might rekindle your interest in 2d fighting games.

After Zelda came out, Metroid is...collecting dust LOL

Strongest Kori juggle so far...Kori: 3~b+2~b,d+2~sm~1,2,cs. 25% baby. A real man's juggle.

As for the dude that wanted help vs Drahmin. Drahmin isn't very hard if you keep pressure. You dont really want to use Dragon: d+3 against Drahmin. There is nothing to interupt, so why use it? I mean, it's not a bad idea to throw out a few random ones to get some quick damage in. Also, if you're fighting someone who doesn't know about the great recovery time of d+3, you can abuse the crap out of it, and when they eventually begin to block it, they will try to punish. Seeing how it recovers instantly, go for b+4 when ya see the "punish move" coming at ya to send them flying.

If you have uber good reaction time, you can Dragon: b+4 the drahmin's shove attempt for some good damage. However, be warned that doing that leaves Sub Zero at a really bad position and drahmin at an excellent one.

Like DevilGene said, Drahmin isn't as safe as everyone says. Punish stuff that he attempts with b,d+2, then do a power up juggle. Drahmin has a fairly weak close range game, so use that to your advantage. SZ has a dope mid range and close range game, but a crappy long distance game.

Use lots of Kori: 3. It's his best move, and there is absolutely NOTHING that your opponent can do to stop it. They can't ss,duck or jump out of it. They can only block, which isn't an issue seeing how it recovers instantly. Also, use Kori: b+4 which hits low and is almost as safe as Kori 3.

If the drahmin is stupid and decides to go for a d,b+1 for no reason, you get a guaranteed impale. If you wanna be risky, if you see Drahmin going for b,d+4 at a distance, do d,f+1 immediately. Yeah, you'll take some damage, but the frozen Drahmin will take more once you punish his ass!

Like Konqrr said, use shoto: d+3 for some solid damage. It's pretty safe since you can BDC out of it.

Kori: 1,b+2 is kinda safe, and it does good damage, but ever since I noticed the greatness of Kori: 3 and b+4, I kinda stopped using it.

Sub Zero and Drahmin are about the same place in the tier listings(right around the top tier part), so it's a pretty even match up. You just gotta keep pressure. It also doesn't hurt to do some risky stuff every now and then, but thats not what SZ is about. Im the resident Sub Zero guy around here, so if ya need any help just ask.

Yo Konq, Kori: 3,cs,b+2,cs,d+3,cs,2 is the stuff! No damage, but 100% flash baby!

Thanks for the SZ info, scorpion owns him though :-p Just watched the TiT vids, the contestants weren't all that if I may say so, but hey, I wasn't there so I don't have the right to judge them. MKL has got a nice Bo there btw and one guy's Jax surprised me but the other vids, meh, I'd own them with scorp. Few reversals, few low-mid mix ups, combo-block-combo-block all the time. Maybe it's the tension at such a tournament, I don't know I never played one... I do know however that there are much better players out there, maybe we'll see them in a next tourney...
Konqrr: I live in Europe so Metroid prime is NEW here lol, Zelda comes out the 3rd of may! but yeah I've preordered it