MK is not more legendary and never will be bro. You look at arcades these days and there's one series you can still rely on being there and that's Tekken. Nobody gives a shit about your scrub town and who played what. That proves nothing. Bro, The exact opposite took place in my town. Tekken mania was runnin' wild while MK cabinets had rats living in them and mold cheese growing off them. The fact is Tekken has sold 22+ million copies. 6 games, two gaming platforms (PS1, PS2). MK is around something like 25 million and they've had about 5,000 games on every single platform bro. Please tell me how this ratio makes MK more legendary? Tekken is going to surpass MK without having to whore itself out to everyone and with far fewer games bro. Does that make you cry? I hope so.
Bro, Tekken is not just popular in Japan. It's popular EVERYWHERE. It's competitive scene is huge worldwide even after a year of a game being out. Unlike MK which just has 12 american players left online after it's been out for a year LOL. Bro, what do you think's going to happen when Tekken goes online? It's going to spank MK in popularity and most people here would much rather play a real fighting game like Tekken online than MK. The only thing MK has going for it right now is online. Like DOA. And ironically they're the worst fighters. Once the real ones like SC, VF, and Tekken go online, bro, bro.
If you honestly think more people talk about Killer Instinct than these fighters, there's no hope for you. Because you obviously don't live in reality. To answer your question why Ed Boon continues making MK games, bro, that's honestly one of the dumbest questions I'veever heard. He's not making them because he loves you bro. He's not making them because he loves the series bro (that's quite apparent by how bad the games are). Bro, he makes them because he knows the sheep will buy it. It's all about the money bro. That's your answer.

I've never been a Lei player, but he has a ridiculous amount of fighting styles. Something like 6 or 7. Somethin crazy. Most Tekken characters have had multiple stances since T3.

Lol, yes, please do ban that guy.
As for your car analogy, MKF, I don't know much about cars, but the Corvette changed it's engine and the developers cared what its customers wanted, right? And, I would guess, the Corvette's old engine wasn't fundamentaly flawed; they only needed to tune it up to match up to the other cars? While I don't know enough about cars to judge, it sounds like this doesn't really apply to MK.
The blue pen and black pen analogy, however, was superb.

Multiple styles ain't new. Tekken & SC have done it. Done it better too.

^What they said.

Lei Wulong has
Tiger
Dragon
Snake
Panther
Crain
Drunken fist
and
Phoenix
Then he has the extra positions.
Lie face down, head towards opp
Lie face up, head towards opp
Lie face down, head away from opp
Lie face up, head away from opp
and
Back turned stance

Ok, just to be fair I have no problem answering your question Tiger but I know it won't make a difference to some.
Ok, first off I just want to say that I never said that Deceptions engine was perfect.I feel no game has the "perfect engine" there are some better then others, but not "perfect" as some say here about other fighters.
I'll list what I like and don't like:
Likes/Dislikes:
-Moving around is good enough for me, the side stepping improved from the last game although in MK:DA I was able to side step and attack at the same time, this I noticed I couldn't do as well in Deception.It's good enough for me for the most part, not too slow, not too fast.
-Blocking/Countering: I know some people don't like the blocking, recovery time and countering in Deception.I agree with this and disagree.You see, I agree because in some cases you can't penetrate against certain characters in competitive play.Example:Scorpions Weapon, the F+1 move is very, very safe on block.Same with Kenshi's U+2 in weapon.You can counter as fast as you can and won't be able to get the hit in.At least online, offline I never played anyone really, really good so I don't know offline but online is where the players are so I'm goin based on 2 years online experience Tiger.Lag can effect this at times but I have tested this on perfect a connection with players a lot.No can do on those two examples.Some might give you more examples, but those are the two main ones for me anyway.
On the other hand I like the blocking because most of the time when I use it, I can backdash, or counter with a poke and it goes through.Granted lag CAN effect this sometimes but 9 times out of 10 I can pull it off.I also like the fact that I can buffer another move after stun like moves which I understand are in other fighters as well.
-Autotracking:I know this is a problem and I hope it's fixed, although on the bright side I see it being a problem with certain characters more then others.Scorpion, Bo mainly get to me when it comes to autotracking.
Scorpion with the pokes, Hell fire plants, and I also noticed you CAN'T SS his sweeps especially in the corners.Bo with his F+3,free throw(a glitch in itself that needs some serious tweaking).If you use auto recovery wtih F+3 the SS is pointless almost.So, that's why I don't like the SS because you can't always escape certain attacks.
Auto Recovery-This is one of my biggest complaints next to infinites honestly.I never used this, yet still manage to compete against many players that do.It's really annoying at times, I didn't even know of it until a year ago about 3 months after Deception came out.I feel it's players way of a "wake up" game but still, the glitch isn't meant to be there yet it's abused.So, that's why I want this OUT!!
If they should add a wake up game in the future I'll be all for it just as long as you can't hit me when I'm down, I don't care.
50/50's-You know what, honestly this doesn't annoy me as much as some other things do.Yes, it is annoying at times, sometimes off a plant you can really be annoying with 50/50's and to some not letting your opponent get up should they guess wrong.Between mid hits, low hits and high hits.I can deal with this for the time being but I feel sometimes is over hyped because at some point your opponent will throw you, so duck and poke then immediately backdash for positioning.The new parry system in MKA even if it doesn't live up to the potential of the "mighty tekken" WILL still make a difference.It's better it's there then not?Wouldn't you say?Would you honestly have it NOT be there for MK 7 and NOT reduce/possibly stop infinites or be there and improve the gameplay?
Frame Rates-Only tweaking I want personally is for every character to be more balanced with their speed and fix Dairou's TS move.His fireball comes out pretty fast as well.It's way too fast and unfair the TS move is.Other then that, there are worse things to worry about such as infinites, free throws, free hits, auto recovery, moving before the round and on the PS 2 they should eliminate the stupid cheats that they allow with Gameshark.On xbox, you CAN'T use any dumb little cheat devices which I like a lot.Thank god I have an xbox for that.
Honestly Tiger some of this comes down to opinion but I so see the flaws with the current engine, I see the positives as well.I hope they fix everything necessary to make MK A as good as possible.I'll play it regardless but I do believe it will improve man.
My question for you is this, why are some of the people in here already judging MKA or trashing the series based on Deception?We all know that MK hasn't ALWAYS disappointed yet a lot of users in this thread seem to be judging all future MK's because they were disappointed with Deception.

Because we have not seen nor heard any evidence whatsoever that the mechanics needed to fix MK's current problems have been implemented. And please stop bringing up MK1-4 as if they are somehow relevant to MKA.

It's because MKA will still use the Deception engine, or the MKDA one.
So, It's still there, they are just adding things like air dial combos, and directional throws.
The Deception fighting mechanics need a ton of changes, that are most likely not going to be made.
MKD + a little dress up = MKD + a little dress up
-------------------------------------------
I haven't seen anybody post that any game is perfect, not even VF4.
They are very good, but not perfect.
The term is variable.
There is always something to change.

All you haters can enjoy wallowing in how much you dislike the fighting style...I on the other hand am going to love it and play it for months just like I did with DA and D

That's great man, have fun.
Nobody has a problem with you or anybody else enjoying the game.
We are just discussing the game play mechanics, not hating for kicks.

Ryu, it was an example of underestimating your opponent and looking dumb for doing so.
It wasn't about the Vette per-se.I could have used 1 million different things to get my point across.
Second, sure man I'll stop with the old MK's once others stop saying MK has always sucked and always will disappoint.Deal man?
Menthol, lol I think you need to do some more research before you post concerning the 12 players left on MK online? lol You're kidding right?
Between the Xbox live and PS 2 there are several that still play, perhaps NOT as much as when Deception first came out but still none the less.If I want I can play my friends, set matches up play other players.
Then there's also of course the classic players that STILL play games like MK 2, UMK3.I know they do because I read the classic section, MK2KungBroken has a load of players I bet without even asking if he knows any.
The guy loves UMK3, I can tell he plays with others like him.So your 12 players that play MK theory has just been shot down.Plus, it will only increase now with the high anticipation of MK A coming out.
Plus, of course you heard the recent great news about UMK 3 right?It will be on the 360 not PS 2 online, what do you know there's a shocker.If I was PS 2 I would have been on that idea years ago but all well the 360 nabbed it.
Also, ok if tekken is so great and perfect, then why has it yet to make any attempt to go online?I mean at this rate it won't go online until what?2100? lol in reality perhaps 2010 you hope.
Before you go into the whole frame rates, etc, etc.That is getting old.MK, DOA, SF, Guilty Gear, King of Fighters has gone online, why not Tekken?Not so perfect I guess huh?
Online is a necessary now!!!
It's like you said, nobody gives a rats ass about the arcades anymore and I wouldn't go so far as to say my little shit town has no talent.I live in NYC where most of the top players are located in Deception.I'm one of them.
I went to NJ to play players that play competitively all the time.There were lots of good players down in AC, I had to wait on lines literally for hours sometimes to get in on UMK3 bro, the Tekken machines were collecting dust.Like 3 players all day played Tekken 2 at the time.Granted you want to say Tekken 3 out performed MK 4, fine I won't argue that but MK2, MK 3, UMK 3 ruled the arcades man.I was there between NY and NJ, I saw this shit live with my own two eyes.I have no doubt that it was like this else where across the USA.
Japan, I don't care about.Let them play their Tekken, chances are if the japanese players played the USA players in MK it would be a masacre USA>Japan.I won't underestimate the japanese players, but MK is american and I guarantee you the worlds best MK players are here my friend.MK-Deception I have no doubt.
Tekken lacks things just like every fighter does, ok so the technical stuff might be covered but what about the atmosphere, realism, and variety.Tekken while improved it's gameplay has yet to change with other things such as any attempt at blood after a fight, bruising, newer modes other then a tag match or practive which just about every fighter has a practice mode.Where's the death moves?Dark atmosphere since it's a fighter instead of this current PS 13 atmosphere.I mean it's a fighter man, come on lol.There will be blood, there will be death, also pick up the storyline for gods sake.
Where's the online play?Again, if I'm a tekken fan I'm not pleased at the fact that they haven't made any attempts yet on it.If frame rates are an issue then that's bad.Like I said, DOA, MK, SF all have their frame issues but still managed to go online.
At this point, I see Tekken having no excuse what so ever.You say MK fans are blinded by the fanatical fanboyism, well I say Tekken fans are blinded by the incredible gameplay that they don't want anything else?No attempts at making a future tekken with online play where you can play others like you instead of being limited to your town playing and owning 10-20 people if that much?
That's another thing I want to point out.Tekken should give props to VF.They copied their style, yet you see Tekken fans mum on that topic.Why is that?I'm sure VF fans aren't thrilled about that.Granted, MK got the idea from SF no doubt but they added things to make it WAYYYY different then SF.Fatalities, Dark atmosphere, Stage fatalities, variety of finishing moves, nice storyline, DEATH.
Where your Tekken is how different from VF?Lets see, similar fighting engine, no finishing moves or blood, no dark atmosphere same PG 13 atmosphere, same concept in a slightly different form.Yeah, that's really different.Other then characters and storyline it's not nearly a drastic difference as MK is to SF.
And we all know that KI took cues from MK and SF, that's a nobrainer.
Once the "mighty Tekken" goes online like the other fighters then I might be impressed.What are you going to do when you get a challenge, act like 1 Tru King and threaten people across the world saying I'll fly there to beat you lol.You know how silly that sounds?Who the hell has time for that other then people without a life and some money to waste.That's why they invented something called online. lol
I say play your tekken and let the KI, SF, DOA, VF and MK fans play their games.

That's good, and I respect everyone's opinions. I play MK for the stories, and for the fighting. It has and always will be my favorite fighting game, and I own every one (MK-MK:D) but none of the side-games, besides Shaolin Monks. I believe Armageddon has a chance, but I'm not going to flame you for your opinions.
-GoL

Like you said, the frame rate is a big issue with games like Tekken and VF.
Apparently, Namco and Sega see this as unacceptable for their game.
I wish it was online too, even if it lags a little.
Tekken and VF are very different.
Totally different cast of characters
Different fighting mechanic
Story is darker in Tekken = A demon is the main character in the last game.
Tekken has a more flashy / over the top style, and has moves like a punch that sends the opponent flying like 10 feet.
VF is more toned down, less over the top.
Tekken has a combination of finite and infinite stages
VF has a square for every stage with or without ring outs.
Tekken does not have ring outs
Some characters in Tekken have fireballs, lasers, teleportation, regeneration, and can fly.
Tekken has humans, animals, a cyborg, zombie, robots, demons, and a god.
The games are very different.
And Tekken doesn't need blood or kill moves to be a great fighting game.
It has it's own style, just like MK with it's blood.

Auto Recovery-This is one of my biggest complaints next to infinites honestly.I never used this, yet still manage to compete against many players that do.It's really annoying at times, I didn't even know of it until a year ago about 3 months after Deception came out.I feel it's players way of a "wake up" game but still, the glitch isn't meant to be there yet it's abused.So, that's why I want this OUT!!
If they should add a wake up game in the future I'll be all for it just as long as you can't hit me when I'm down, I don't care.
This actually makes the game better because you can quick recover after certain moves and avoid an opponent's 50/50 mix up.This is the closest (besides tech-rolling) that MK:D has that one can relate to a "wake up" game.If one could use this on plant moves,MK:D would basically have no infinite combos,and the game would be less revolved around 50/50 mix ups.
Dude,use your common sense.If your can remain on the ground,there need to be moves that hit you while you're grounded.Otherwise,you can l remain grounded for as long as you want,and how will your opponent deal with this?
50/50's-You know what, honestly this doesn't annoy me as much as some other things do.Yes, it is annoying at times, sometimes off a plant you can really be annoying with 50/50's and to some not letting your opponent get up should they guess wrong.Between mid hits, low hits and high hits.I can deal with this for the time being but I feel sometimes is over hyped because at some point your opponent will throw you, so duck and poke then immediately backdash for positioning.The new parry system in MKA even if it doesn't live up to the potential of the "mighty tekken" WILL still make a difference.It's better it's there then not?Wouldn't you say?Would you honestly have it NOT be there for MK 7 and NOT reduce/possibly stop infinites or be there and improve the gameplay?
If MK:D had a parry right now in this game,it wouldn't reduce any infinite combos unless you could parry throws (which wouldn't make much sense).In addition,even if the parries are there,it's still a 50/50 mix up game due to the fact that you would have to guess that an opponent will do an attack over a throw.
Also,the parry could break the game,but the parry could also be useless.It just depends on its properties.
Frame Rates-Only tweaking I want personally is for every character to be more balanced with their speed and fix Dairou's TS move.His fireball comes out pretty fast as well.It's way too fast and unfair the TS move is.Other then that, there are worse things to worry about such as infinites, free throws, free hits, auto recovery, moving before the round and on the PS 2 they should eliminate the stupid cheats that they allow with Gameshark.On xbox, you CAN'T use any dumb little cheat devices which I like a lot.Thank god I have an xbox for that.
Just this?You know there's more to frames than speed,right?MK:D needs to have frame advantage (on block) and the frame advantage on hits need to be toned down since every move in MK:D that has at least a half decent recovery sets you up for an easy 50/50 mix up.

In response to MKF: Heh, maybe if you played a game well with actual frames, you might understand why VF and Tekken haven't gone online yet. You say arcade is dead, yet EVO still draws tons of people in the US. In Japan, arcade is far from dead. Just because you don't have the time doesn't mean others don't either. Sure, it would be great to have Tekken or VF online, if they could figure out some way for it to play the same. Just because it's an old reason doesn't make it any less valid. As for the whole atmosphere spiel, that adds nothing to gameplay and is therefore disgarded as a good argument.
I'm just wondering if you've ever tried to learn Tekken or VF. Maybe if you have, then you wouldn't be saying that they are the same. They play extremely different; most successful fighters gameplay-wise do. I only say most because I'm not familiar with DOA, KOF, GG, MvC2, etc. But it's quite obvious that VF, Tekken, and SC play completely different. A well spent hour spent playing each game would show that.

What would you expect from a guy whose best competition was probably against the CPU on maximum hard?
Every moron knows that the "frame sensitivity" in both Tekken and VF would hurt the games so much online that they would result in a certain unplayability.How would you escape throws and do Just Frames in both games if the probable lag online would cause huge difficulties with the short frame-windows that these features require you to execute?What would online's lag do to frame advantage one can only imagine.Thus,playing online and off-line would be like playing two different kinds of games;however,the "off-line game" would play like the developers never intended it to be played.
People say that there's only two things that are endless and that have no limits - the universe and human stupidity.MKF certainly makes this statement true.

How much does a game console have to do with how smooth the game plays online?
Cause I'm wondering if it will be possible to play next gen games like T6 and VF5 online.
DOA4 lags a lot for the Xbox 360, and I have a fast connection.
It depends on what the other person's connection is like also, I know that much.

MKF:
Its funny cause around Cali, our arcades are still going well, we have competition everywhere. Ive been to over 20 big arcades in Cali during the timespan UMK3 came out and not one of them had more peeps on MK than other games at the time, especially Tekken.
You do know that Tekken recently released T5DR for the arcades and its bringing in mad money for arcade vendors right?
Tekken also does not play like VF... at all, lol... that's just too funny.
The reason why Tekken, VF, and SC don't go online is that their arcade income is still very very good. VF is self-supported in Asia due to the fact that there are so many players and people pay $1 to play one credit over there. Average VF player has over 3000 matches, you do the math. Same with Tekken in Asia as well. Tekken and SC get mad coin-op sales all over the world. By putting in online play, it would not only lose some of the integrity of these games online, but take away from the arcade business. We're talking about games where the average ping (ie 2/60th-4/60th's second of delay online) would change the entire game, thats how sensitive the game is.
However, due to the recent Bandai merge, Tekken is probably going online for PS3.

Is this guy fucking serious?!
WTF? This has to be a joke.
What a scrub.

*sigh* I can't believe wtf I'm still reading. You just don't get it. Here, quick experiment. Go over to tekkenzaibatsu.com forums and see how many users are online. Now, come back here and see how many users are online. As I sit here, there are 23 registered users on this site and 127 registered users online over there.
Tekken's offline competitive scene is bigger than MK online's competitive scene.
Tekken plays like VF, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Online can wait for Tekken because there's a lot of people over here in MN where I live that play Tekken. Usually around 15 people a week. All GOOD players. But this isn't just my neck of the woods. This is all over the globe you can find offline Tekken competition. It's real human interaction. Can't top that. So yeah, keep pretending sitting in your room alone nut hugging MK and playing it online is a so much fun. Plus, the frames in Tekken would kill it online. The games you're listing don't have the demand in their engines VF and Tekken do.
You obviously missed the point of your scrub city. No matter how many times you say how the Tekken machines were empty and MK had lines going around blocks just to play, it doesn't matter. That's equivalent to saying "yeah my brother said *insert game* sucks so that must mean it sucks". Get out of third grade. Tekken 2 on was far more popular than than anything MK was doing. Including UMK3. By far. Tekken 5 DR right now is saving arcades because it's making BIG business. MK4 was a complete flop in arcades. Tekken 3 basically smacked it back down to Midway with a note saying "don't even bother trying to compete" and screwed their moms.
And quit talking about Japan being huge for Tekken. It's big. But that's VF country. USA is better than Japan in Tekken anyway. Korea is the best at it though. Korea, UK, Canada, name any country you want. Tekken is bigger.
And one final thing. WTF is the point of trying to start some Xbox vs PS2 war with your comment about UMK3? WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT A CONSOLE WAR! What does that even have to do with what's being discussed? This is what I mean by you typing a whole bunch of nonsense. I'm not saying you're mentally ill or anything. But you just don't make any sense with 99% of the things you type. You just start going off topic on everything. You have so many insecurity issues hahaha. Tekken doesn't need unrealistic blood or a bunch of gimmicks to be it's own fighting game or to sell like MK does. Everything you listed that makes MK so much different from SF in your opinion has nothing to do with gameplay. Hell, MK uses one person for motion capture. Which then leads to some of the worst animation seen in fighters today. Tekken on the other hand uses a bunch of different people to motion capture each character. Giving each character their own flavor and setting them apart from another. Not to mention some of the best animation seen in today's fighters.

Cool, Mexico has a sweet SNK scene. My arcade is into Initial D more than any other game. Woot, ID owns everyone!!
10-20 peeps sitting around a cab, farting, laughing, socializing, learning the game, looking at possibly illegal asian ass > random online scrub calling me a cheap fag.

right now I'm seeing
27 here
277 at Tekkenzaibatsu

You know what?
These guys are right. The Ed boon fans are right. It was just like menthol said, it was a fluke. UMK3 being the best these clowns had to offer was a complete and total fluke. A build of the MK3 engine. And it was good.
This is the third build of the DA engine. We could go off track record. Lets look at the history though. When boon has a engine and fucks with it untill the third revision, you get a good game!
Maybe it's his sepcial formula?
Alright. See? Now you can look forward to it.

Bleed, I'm only counting the registered users. It doesn't count guests over here. It's still over 5x the amount of people though LOL.