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travelingwilbury
03/18/2009 07:32 PM (UTC)
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ThePredator151 Wrote:
~Crow~ Wrote:
What exactly is this "MK style" people keep referring to?


Some good words to kinda describe everything (the way it was) n general are:

: Pseudo realistic styled "photo realism" - hints of "cartoon"
: Americanized-Asian influenced styled fantasy
: Highlander or maybe even Warlock styled action//violence
: 80's Horror movie genre styled horror
: probably 50's-80's Martial Arts style. Heavy on the Asian influence.
: and then lastly, some slap-stick, dry, and practical joke humor


and then the "mood" and all that, comes together when those sorts of things collide.

Those things updated // modernized, it might look like:

: Re-visualized Pseudo realistic styled "photo realism" -shouldn't be much of anything cartoon about it now.
: Bad Dream // Nightmare fantasy
: Hollywood action//violence, influenced by Anime (mmm... Cowboy Bebop // Ninja Scroll come to mind off the top of my head.)
: 00's Horror movie genre styled horror (I'd go with something like The Devils Rejects, and or something like The Mist)
: probably 50's-00's Martial Arts influences from more than the Asian source. But this is where the bulk of the Asian influence would come from.
: and then lastly, dry and//or intellectual humor


Eh, that's really vague but, MK's style is identified through the combination of those types of things. I think that if they have that sort of formula, creating the mood and all that becomes apparent as the result.


When I hear MK and Bebop influences coming together I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach for I lament about how it'd be a downgrade for that great anime. No offense, maybe something different from influence from either anime or Hollywood could fit it but Bebop would not at all. Granted possibly the martial arts could which where based off Bruce Lee but as we already know, MK already has that feeling to it. Other than that no way they could be a meeting right there that would feel right
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ThePredator151
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03/18/2009 08:50 PM (UTC)
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Well yea, I don't mean take that series and inherit it exactly in any way. I just mean that I saw more than one thing in that series that felt like MK could use the influence to its advantage. I don't know the names of alot of the animes I've seen and loved either.

Influence is really based in the interpretation of the person. But what I think you mean is similar to what I mean, when I say "don't commit completely to the influence of anime". Or "don't commit completely to any Asian influence".

Cuz it just wouldn't be right for MK. I see your point though.
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travelingwilbury
03/18/2009 11:26 PM (UTC)
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ThePredator151 Wrote:
Well yea, I don't mean take that series and inherit it exactly in any way. I just mean that I saw more than one thing in that series that felt like MK could use the influence to its advantage. I don't know the names of alot of the animes I've seen and loved either.

Influence is really based in the interpretation of the person. But what I think you mean is similar to what I mean, when I say "don't commit completely to the influence of anime". Or "don't commit completely to any Asian influence".

Cuz it just wouldn't be right for MK. I see your point though.


I know what your talking about and mean by taking bits and pieces from one work to another being anime, Hollywood, folk lore etc and creating a uniquely MK entity but I think out of any Japanese anime to get some influence from, I'd say Bebop would not be fitting due to it being about a grim tale about bounty hunters and the problems the face where something maybe more like Hellsing in style could be a more effective influence for a series like MK
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mkflegend
03/19/2009 03:27 AM (UTC)
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travelingwilbury Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:


Your out of your god damn mind if you think TMNT and other so called classics are better and higher achieving than the Avatar which is a cartoon and not an anime. The Avatar broke alot of ground within American animation where as recent years most American cartoons are far from doing so. And I don't see how they all look alike cause they don't.

Personally I don't care either if you don't like my view either. Your views are unfounded by wanting to keep a franchise "American" even though there is no reason to be worried about it all. Just because one company whether be foreign or not is not gonna shift the series so much that you would not be able to recognize it. It's asinine of you to think otherwise. Once again it's called globalization, just like McDonalds, Ford and others are no longer American, some day neither will other franchises be just American.


We all have our preferences, so I guess I'm "out of my mind"....

Give me TMNT(classic not the current stuff) any day over Avatar....I prefer it. Are you aware of how popular, successful that show was? Seriously? That show was kickass.

I suppose you'll lecture me now for liking TMNT more then Avatar?

Avatar has an anime influence in comparison to TMNT and the other 80's american cartoons. This is quite obvious....

Groundbreaking? Ever see DC animated shows? or say Beast Wars? Avatar isn't groundbreaking it's done well in it's own respect but I don't see what's so ground breaking about it.

My views can't be unfounded just because you disagree with mine who a lot here happen to agree with, despite if you see my reasoning or not. Anyone that knows MK knows it's history is anything BUT foreign in terms of it's creators, company and staff who make the games.

I don't see how you're comparing McDonalds as a good example since that's an international fast food restaurant where video games have certain histories, companies that have contracts, licenses....

I'd say take a Corvette ok. A HUGE american icon for a car and has a history of it, if a Vette were to ever be made by Japanese people would go NUTS with protests....and a true car/vette enthusiast would probably die of shock.

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travelingwilbury
03/19/2009 03:57 AM (UTC)
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mkflegend Wrote:
travelingwilbury Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:


Your out of your god damn mind if you think TMNT and other so called classics are better and higher achieving than the Avatar which is a cartoon and not an anime. The Avatar broke alot of ground within American animation where as recent years most American cartoons are far from doing so. And I don't see how they all look alike cause they don't.

Personally I don't care either if you don't like my view either. Your views are unfounded by wanting to keep a franchise "American" even though there is no reason to be worried about it all. Just because one company whether be foreign or not is not gonna shift the series so much that you would not be able to recognize it. It's asinine of you to think otherwise. Once again it's called globalization, just like McDonalds, Ford and others are no longer American, some day neither will other franchises be just American.


We all have our preferences, so I guess I'm "out of my mind"....

Give me TMNT(classic not the current stuff) any day over Avatar....I prefer it. Are you aware of how popular, successful that show was? Seriously? That show was kickass.

I suppose you'll lecture me now for liking TMNT more then Avatar?

Avatar has an anime influence in comparison to TMNT and the other 80's american cartoons. This is quite obvious....

Groundbreaking? Ever see DC animated shows? or say Beast Wars? Avatar isn't groundbreaking it's done well in it's own respect but I don't see what's so ground breaking about it.

My views can't be unfounded just because you disagree with mine who a lot here happen to agree with, despite if you see my reasoning or not. Anyone that knows MK knows it's history is anything BUT foreign in terms of it's creators, company and staff who make the games.

I don't see how you're comparing McDonalds as a good example since that's an international fast food restaurant where video games have certain histories, companies that have contracts, licenses....

I'd say take a Corvette ok. A HUGE american icon for a car and has a history of it, if a Vette were to ever be made by Japanese people would go NUTS with protests....and a true car/vette enthusiast would probably die of shock.



A business like McDonald's is a great example because it's a American company that is a highly foreign entity. Same goes for Dunkin' Donuts and the LA Dodgers which are both, guess what, foreign owned. Does that make the LA Dodgers less of an American baseball team and a disgrace to the American pastime? Of course not. This is true for so called American cars which are not made in America at all and barely at times even assembled in America. A Toyota would be more American even though it's Japanese owned because a good deal of them are made in America due to factories being in America owned by foreign companies. All of these types of companies have histories, especially something like a Chevy or Ford which are now more foreign and global than they are American yet they are still seen as American. This also holds true for the NASCAR cars where the only American made car on the circuit is the foreign Toyota and not your Dodge, Chevy or Ford.

So TMNT has an American "touch" while Avatar has an "anime" touch. I didn't dispute this but the fact that Avatar did something out of the box and unique to the American style makes it groundbreaking and the fact it was well received and had some of the highest rating Nickolodean has ever seen while interweaving a complicated story with folk lore from Asian nations makes it a stunning achievement

So once again, your views are unfounded by a fear of it becoming something foreign. Many things that are still seen as American and that you probably view as American, aren't American at all. So a foreign developer taking over MK would not be a detrimental thing at all but business as usual
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ThePredator151
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03/19/2009 04:32 AM (UTC)
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travelingwilbury Wrote:
....due to it being about a grim tale about bounty hunters and the problems the face...


Heh....that almost reads like a character specific sub plot for one of these characters, earlier on in their development stages:

Sub-Zero, Ermac, Smoke, Sektor, Cyrax, Kabal, Dairou, Mavado, Hsu Hao, Kobra, Kung Lao, Sonya, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Nitara, Sareena, or even Baraka.

Probably not now of course, but I'm just saying.
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travelingwilbury
03/19/2009 04:43 AM (UTC)
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ThePredator151 Wrote:
travelingwilbury Wrote:
....due to it being about a grim tale about bounty hunters and the problems the face...


Heh....that almost reads like a character specific sub plot for one of these characters, earlier on in their development stages:

Sub-Zero, Ermac, Smoke, Sektor, Cyrax, Kabal, Dairou, Mavado, Hsu Hao, Kobra, Kung Lao, Sonya, Kitana, Jade, Frost, Nitara, Sareena, or even Baraka.

Probably not now of course, but I'm just saying.


Problem with that is it's about a futuristic bounty hunter, like a modern day cowboy and not a ninja like all of those listed going after clan enemies. Something like Naruto would be more fitting to that due to all the different villages and clans have little skirmishes between one another (not the best example probably due to Naruto being more light hearted shounen but best example I could think of off the top of my head)
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~Crow~
03/19/2009 09:05 AM (UTC)
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ThePredator151 Wrote:
~Crow~ Wrote:
What exactly is this "MK style" people keep referring to?


Some good words to kinda describe everything (the way it was) n general are:

: Pseudo realistic styled "photo realism" - hints of "cartoon"
: Americanized-Asian influenced styled fantasy
: Highlander or maybe even Warlock styled action//violence
: 80's Horror movie genre styled horror
: probably 50's-80's Martial Arts style. Heavy on the Asian influence.
: and then lastly, some slap-stick, dry, and practical joke humor


and then the "mood" and all that, comes together when those sorts of things collide.

Those things updated // modernized, it might look like:

: Re-visualized Pseudo realistic styled "photo realism" -shouldn't be much of anything cartoon about it now.
: Bad Dream // Nightmare fantasy
: Hollywood action//violence, influenced by Anime (mmm... Cowboy Bebop // Ninja Scroll come to mind off the top of my head.)
: 00's Horror movie genre styled horror (I'd go with something like The Devils Rejects, and or something like The Mist)
: probably 50's-00's Martial Arts influences from more than the Asian source. But this is where the bulk of the Asian influence would come from.
: and then lastly, dry and//or intellectual humor


Eh, that's really vague but, MK's style is identified through the combination of those types of things. I think that if they have that sort of formula, creating the mood and all that becomes apparent as the result.


And American developers are the only ones who understand these factors because why again?
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03/19/2009 05:17 PM (UTC)
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That ain't what I said ~Crow~. I don't have a bias against any developers creative capability.

However, I do favor the American interpretation of the things I mentioned, that are in Mortal Kombat. However....I know, that can come from anywhere. But, I don't for example, expect to see those interpretations correctly presented from saaay Indonesia, or Paris, or Mexico, or Iraq, or Asia. I expect to get that from America.

What's wrong with thinking ^that? I figure, that if I'm looking for American ideals.....go get an American game. Or, if I'm looking for Asian ideals, go get an Asian game.

I prefer that separation and that choice even though both cultures, influence each other back and forth to at least some degree.

"American game has Asian stuff in it", "Asian game has American stuff in it." I don't see anything wrong with preferring the American game that has Asian stuff in it. I'm saying that in order to give me that game, I think it's best to put American developers behind the wheel. Asian American, Latino American, African American...whatever. They could be a team of Indonesian decent for all I care, long as they present "American stuff" correctly,and eliminate this petulant, insistent suggestion that outsourcing "is necessary" at the same time. What is America? 3rd greatest populated country in the world or something like that? There's no real reason to go to an Asian company for a good American product. Not money, not personnel(talent), not resources...nothing.

Thus,

~Crow~ Wrote:
And American developers are the only ones who understand these factors because why again?


I prefer that MK stay in the hands of American development because, the best person(s) to creatively present American ideals, culture, principles, and philosophies, are Americans. Those perspectives; those, interpretations of the elements that make up this game, is what I want from MK.

Ex: You don't go to Burger King to get a taco and expect it to taste right.
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~Crow~
03/19/2009 05:26 PM (UTC)
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But those points were not created in America. The BK reference is simply not a very good one. They don't make tacos and they never have... Japanese people have made games with all the points you are describing. They have just as much experience and practice in it.

At the end of the day, my argument is that nothing that is in Mortal Kombat in inherently "American". It isn't as if these developers invented these things by a long shot... like I said before, so many things we claim as "American" weren't created here. They were borrowed from some other place, refined perhaps, and reproduced. That is what America has been for hundreds of years. If you want to talk food, the official American foods are not even from this country. They were brought over by immigrants.
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ThePredator151
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03/19/2009 10:38 PM (UTC)
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~Crow~ Wrote:
But those points were not created in America. The BK reference is simply not a very good one. They don't make tacos and they never have...


...That's the point.

I thought is was a very good analogy to describe to you "why not" out source. It's because yea, BK could probably make "a" taco (hell, they probably have tried before), but it's not gonna be any good. I know I wouldn't want a taco from Burger King. haha..

The same as I wouldn't want a Japanese Mortal Kombat though. Just stick to the burgers. A.k.a., just stick to the anime(or whatever) for me please. Cuz what they're good at, is what I like to buy from them, and there's nothing "wrong", bias, or prejudice about that thinking.

~Crow~ Wrote:
Japanese people have made games with all the points you are describing. They have just as much experience and practice in it.


Yes. Exactly. That's how we got SC, and Tekken, SF, and KOF, VF, and so on. They have perfected their brand of it. I appreciate how they make theirs, but I also appreciate that we can make, and perfect "our own".

In the end products, the difference between them all, is the interpretations of the elements within each of those games. Story, Gameplay, Fantasy, Aesthetic, and any Extras.

~Crow~ Wrote:
At the end of the day, my argument is that nothing that is in Mortal Kombat in inherently "American". It isn't as if these developers invented these things by a long shot... like I said before, so many things we claim as "American" weren't created here. They were borrowed from some other place, refined perhaps, and reproduced. That is what America has been for hundreds of years. If you want to talk food, the official American foods are not even from this country. They were brought over by immigrants.


I think there are inherent American attributes of MK. I believe that those things come in the forms of culture, principle, and philosophy (and practice, to a certain extent) because a mixture is there. MK is a dirty game, but it has an inherent constant despite the mixture that exists. That mixture IS "American", basically.

So while I don't disagree with your point about America being a concoction of pre-existing ideas and concepts, the "refinement" of those things that you kind of...passively mention, is more prominent to me. More obvious.

In other words, I can see that some "American dude" would probably think up ripping somebodies head off and celebrating about it. That-is-not Japanese in culture, principle, or philosophy. Ripping some characters head off and celebrating it, that's like "The Tom Green Show", or "Jackass The Movie", as far as culture and all that. It's so many things in one, it becomes it's own thing.

For instance: Why do you think the MkTeam hasn't been able to grasp the concept of Scorpion being from hell and honorable at the same time? It's because one of those things is more prominently trained into the psycology of one of our cultures at an early age than the other. "Honor as a concept, is more prominent somewhere else, and has simply become a part of Scorpion". As opposed to Scorpion being built up on the basis of honor, and having things happen to him. Right? Scorpion is not an honorable character right now, he's an idiot. lol! He's essentially a raving, vengeful, lunatic right now, which contradicts the culture of the ninja.

But that's why they can't put their finger on what's supposed to make up that character, script it, animate it, and present it to us like they would if they were actually Chinese or Japanese, born and raised developers motivating these characters, and this game. It's not the case, it is American principles, philosophies, and culture driving this game.
____

Another ex: Scorpion // Hanzo Hasashi (MK) vs Ryu Hayabusa(Ninja Gaiden) vs Hattori Hanzo (Samurai Shodown) vs Rikimaru (Tenchu).

After analyzing those characters, Scorpion would end up being at the bottom of the list because he's missing key "ninja substance". That missing substance IS philosophy, principle, and culture. Ergo, the difference between MK and the rest of the bunch.

--

So again, you're right. America is a culmination of things, but you missed the point. The culmination of those things, IS quite uniquely defined as "inherently American". Which is also what MK presents to us.

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~Crow~
03/19/2009 11:05 PM (UTC)
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My points were a bit lost on you... first of all, Burger King doesn't make tacos or anything that is like a traditional taco. The Japanese have created games with ALL the points you have listed, this means they are not "new" to it, as BK would be "new" to making a taco... it's a bad analogy. And I was not referring to Japanese fighting games in particular, I was referring to Japanese games in general. If it weren't for Japan, we probably would not know video games as we know them today. Much like Americans borrowed from Europeans in art and literature, we borrowed from the Japanese in gaming development.

As I've said before, Mortal Kombat was influenced directly by Asian culture... certainly not our own culture or philosophy as you say. Once again... borrowing from someone else. But this does not mean that others are not capable of doing the same things. Other countries have borrowed from each other, and more recently the United States as well. I'm sure many countries have the crude humor shows you've mentioned now... but I'm not going to bother with researching that.

And even if this brand of entertainment was "created in America"... it was created by Boon and his staff at Midway. That has absolutely no bearing on any other American developer. None whatsoever. If you look at the large picture of games out there, you see games that have the Gothic fantasy, dark themes, even the blood and gore... most of these games are going to be developed by a Japanese developer. Let's look at three of the most prominent American developers... Electronic Arts, Bungie and Rockstar. Do these companies produce games that are even remotely similar to Mortal Kombat? I really don't think they do. I'd like to hear some examples if they exist, and I'm sure a few might, but Japanese developed games will undoubtedly outnumber whatever list is composed.

People here are not giving enough credit to the individual's ability to create something. This doesn't mean the rest of the country is just as qualified, or that people from other countries aren't qualified. Would you say Nathaniel Hawthorne and Edgar Allan Poe aren't as good as the European writers who they adopted their styles from were? Or maybe all American artists today are less qualified and skilled than those in Europe, simply because almost all major art movements began in France and Italy and this obviously means that the French and Italian people are better at it until the end of time.

This just seems to be an endless argument, there's no progress being made and I just don't think anyone that doesn't already agree with what I'm saying it going to understand any of this.
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mkflegend
03/20/2009 01:34 AM (UTC)
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travelingwilbury Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
travelingwilbury Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:


Your out of your god damn mind if you think TMNT and other so called classics are better and higher achieving than the Avatar which is a cartoon and not an anime. The Avatar broke alot of ground within American animation where as recent years most American cartoons are far from doing so. And I don't see how they all look alike cause they don't.

Personally I don't care either if you don't like my view either. Your views are unfounded by wanting to keep a franchise "American" even though there is no reason to be worried about it all. Just because one company whether be foreign or not is not gonna shift the series so much that you would not be able to recognize it. It's asinine of you to think otherwise. Once again it's called globalization, just like McDonalds, Ford and others are no longer American, some day neither will other franchises be just American.


We all have our preferences, so I guess I'm "out of my mind"....

Give me TMNT(classic not the current stuff) any day over Avatar....I prefer it. Are you aware of how popular, successful that show was? Seriously? That show was kickass.

I suppose you'll lecture me now for liking TMNT more then Avatar?

Avatar has an anime influence in comparison to TMNT and the other 80's american cartoons. This is quite obvious....

Groundbreaking? Ever see DC animated shows? or say Beast Wars? Avatar isn't groundbreaking it's done well in it's own respect but I don't see what's so ground breaking about it.

My views can't be unfounded just because you disagree with mine who a lot here happen to agree with, despite if you see my reasoning or not. Anyone that knows MK knows it's history is anything BUT foreign in terms of it's creators, company and staff who make the games.

I don't see how you're comparing McDonalds as a good example since that's an international fast food restaurant where video games have certain histories, companies that have contracts, licenses....

I'd say take a Corvette ok. A HUGE american icon for a car and has a history of it, if a Vette were to ever be made by Japanese people would go NUTS with protests....and a true car/vette enthusiast would probably die of shock.



A business like McDonald's is a great example because it's a American company that is a highly foreign entity. Same goes for Dunkin' Donuts and the LA Dodgers which are both, guess what, foreign owned. Does that make the LA Dodgers less of an American baseball team and a disgrace to the American pastime? Of course not. This is true for so called American cars which are not made in America at all and barely at times even assembled in America. A Toyota would be more American even though it's Japanese owned because a good deal of them are made in America due to factories being in America owned by foreign companies. All of these types of companies have histories, especially something like a Chevy or Ford which are now more foreign and global than they are American yet they are still seen as American. This also holds true for the NASCAR cars where the only American made car on the circuit is the foreign Toyota and not your Dodge, Chevy or Ford.

So TMNT has an American "touch" while Avatar has an "anime" touch. I didn't dispute this but the fact that Avatar did something out of the box and unique to the American style makes it groundbreaking and the fact it was well received and had some of the highest rating Nickolodean has ever seen while interweaving a complicated story with folk lore from Asian nations makes it a stunning achievement

So once again, your views are unfounded by a fear of it becoming something foreign. Many things that are still seen as American and that you probably view as American, aren't American at all. So a foreign developer taking over MK would not be a detrimental thing at all but business as usual


They're not unfounded, they're just how I feel like everyone else. I don't fear it because it's foreign per-se, if anything I "fear" it being how do you say screwed up by people who have no knowledge of it. To be quite honest, if MK did go foreign only way I'd feel at ease is if someone that actually knows MK like boon and Tobias went with MK to whoever...I mean, afterall they're only the "creators" and heart and soul of MK thru out the years so I think that's only fair. Despite who hates Boon or Tobias, chances are those haters don't know jack anyway from reading their posts...so they don't concern me.

The Dodgers or those teams that may be (some) partially foreign owned or may not make them "anti-American" but they're certainly not as American as say the Yankees(a team you'll never see foreign owned, mark my words.) Correct me if I'm wrong but you are a Yankee fan yourself are you not? One thing we do have in common, they will NEVER be foreign owned as long as this earth is here. Some things just never will or never should honestly.

Besides, although the Dodgers are a popular team very known they're not as big as the Yankees, Red Sox etc. Teams of that calibur besides the fact that MLB the sport of baseball is and always has been American. It's played internationally yes(now within the past 10 years or so) let's face it MLB has always been bigger here in the states. Americas pasttime afterall...

So if a team is foreign owned, it won't bother me as much...however if Baseball itself was ever bought over that would suck.....

What I'm saying concerning food restaurants or places where you eat internationally is that they can only benefit for doing so. By being exposed more, the world of video games isn't the same. Example, it's no secret that the Japanese don't like/play US made games nearly as much as we and Europeans do...

Doesn't matter what it is, Halo, GTA, MK, GOW etc....M$ in general....

If you take the numbers of sales with all of those things here and in europe and then compare them to Japan, you'll see what I'm saying.

Concerning cars, you're right with some USA made cars not even assembled here...it's cheaper labor to get built elsewhere which is why they do this....in fact a lot of parts(sometimes depending on the car) are also japanese but not all...example, some economic normal usa cars from Ford, GM and Dodge have some japanese parts but that's not the case with all cars. Vettes one example, 100% made in Detroit usually and their parts are a lot different then Japans specswise, engine etc(makes you wonder why they don't put the same effort into their regular economic cars....)

Cartoons, again this is all preference...it's obviously your favorite cartoon but just saying to me it's nothing groundbreaking...Pokemon both US version(dubs) and Japanese were 10x more popular then Avatar, perhaps not now but when it came out....and I'm not a fan of Japanese cartoons but facts are facts none the less.

If anything I'll still say TMNT was bigger and BW was more groundbreaking because it took Transformers to another level, new graphics CGI and great voice acting. Better then Avatar's if you ask me.

I don't believe MK will go foreign anyway, if it does then I'll be concerned but til that happens I'll say chances are higher it stays American.

Lastly, just to clear this up since Boon etc has said this themselves as I've stated before MK was inspired by a few things, SF(being the first fighter as well as other fighters after SF and MK), Hollywood current martial artist/actors at that time like Van Damme, thus where they got the Johnny Cage idea) cheesy Kung Fu flicks. The asian influence was only partial with certain characters like Shang Tsung, Liu Kang and MK 2 more then any other MK. Otherwise it wasn't foreign inspired really. MK is it's own element, it's own storyline.
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ThePredator151
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03/21/2009 12:48 AM (UTC)
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~Crow~ Wrote:
My points were a bit lost on you... first of all, Burger King doesn't make tacos or anything that is like a traditional taco. The Japanese have created games with ALL the points you have listed, this means they are not "new" to it, as BK would be "new" to making a taco... it's a bad analogy. And I was not referring to Japanese fighting games in particular, I was referring to Japanese games in general. If it weren't for Japan, we probably would not know video games as we know them today. Much like Americans borrowed from Europeans in art and literature, we borrowed from the Japanese in gaming development.


Mmm, I don't believe they are lost on me. I mean, I'm pretty sure I could even articulate your point to you. But, the BK//taco analogy wasn't meant to establish that BK has ever made tacos. It was only meant to establish expertise.

To then cross reference that, I'd say that the Japanese pretty much got stuff like Anime, and Martial Arts in the bag. Y'know? Furthermore, I wouldn't expect to go to Japan to get precise American culture, ideals...ect. either

Doesn't make sense to go over there to get that, when they're not the experts on those things. It's only at that point then, that it doesn't matter how good they are at producing Americanized games and so on, because we can't expect them to present those things correctly. Doesn't work that way..

"That's not their expertise"=
You don't to Japan to get American and expect it to be correct.
"You don't go to Burger King to get a taco and expect it to taste right."

That's all I was saying man. I'm not arguing that Japanese culture doesn't have a steak in the video game world, or that "America is better at it" or that "America started it" or anything like that.

~Crow~ Wrote:
As I've said before, Mortal Kombat was influenced directly by Asian culture... certainly not our own culture or philosophy as you say. Once again... borrowing from someone else. But this does not mean that others are not capable of doing the same things. Other countries have borrowed from each other, and more recently the United States as well. I'm sure many countries have the crude humor shows you've mentioned now... but I'm not going to bother with researching that.


That's not my point either. My is point is that American culture, philosophy, and principles produced Mortal Kombat. This is also with the understanding that other cultures influenced that end product.

~Crow~ Wrote:
People here are not giving enough credit to the individual's ability to create something. This doesn't mean the rest of the country is just as qualified, or that people from other countries aren't qualified. Would you say Nathaniel Hawthorne and Edgar Allan Poe aren't as good as the European writers who they adopted their styles from were? Or maybe all American artists today are less qualified and skilled than those in Europe, simply because almost all major art movements began in France and Italy and this obviously means that the French and Italian people are better at it until the end of time.


Oh I don't have a problem giving credit....But I do think that you should pay people for what they're good at. That's why I don't have a hang up about Japanese games, when I go buy Japanese games. Or for instance, anime.

My point though, is I like Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat is American. So, I think it's correct to pay some Americans to produce Mortal Kombat. And even though I recognize that the Japanese are excellent video game producers, I don't think they'd produce Mortal Kombat right.

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