Well, Devil May Cry has adopted the rather "bishonen" (pretty boy) style, and has hard-edged goth-action like other anime such as Hellsing and/or Berserk...

Megaman has been pretty much "cutesy" anime-style from the get-go (super-deformed, big-eyed characters)

Street fighter evolved into that style ever since the Alpha series. It's blind to deny such influence on the series' design elements since then.

Resident Evil is an exception. I'm not familiar with Haunting Ground, so no comment there.

1) There are tons of American animated shows just like that. That doesn't make it "animeish" or some traditional Japanese style. Certainly not "PG13 anime".

2) In that case, every platformer from Mario to Sonic is anime. I really doubt anyone views Mario as "anime", at least in the derogatory way that term has been thrown around in this thread. Hell what about Banjo-Kazooie then? Brought to you by the same developer as Killer Instinct. Has anyone actually watched cartoons lately? I mean really, there are tons of American shows with "big eyes" on their characters.

3) These were just some examples. Haunting Ground is a survival horror game, there are numerous other examples to this.

I beg your pardon? Let's see...

Dead Rising games
Lost Planet games
Onimusha games
Dino Crisis games
Shadow of Rome etc.

No, I don't think so.

Besides, I can find similar examples of "animeishness" in US games. Although on the side note, I don't think that some kind of anime style or influence in a game is a bad thing at all.

But that wasn't even a point. The guy said (among other nonsenses) that Capcom and Tecmo (that one is even better) are PG13 anime companies. That's just mind-boggling. But at least he explained that he didn't mean it in terms of "Anime company that makes anime films"...

#1 I need examples of bishonen-style hard-edged/goth US animated shows.

#2 I seriously hope you're not lumping any cutesy,big-eyed character into that category. If so, you need to do more research on anime/manga, and how its traditional stylization differs.

And wtf is that retort about? Crow brought up Resident Evil, and I used his example to point out an exception.

Why do you try and counter it with games that weren't brought up? I'm not saying those games aren't exceptions...they just simply weren't in the post I was replying to.

If you say so. No need to get all excited about that though. Those examples just further proves Capcom not being a PG13 anime company, since you've focused on the other side.

Also, you can edit your post instead of doubleposting

Once again, who the hell cares if MK takes up a anime style. It'd be for the better, anything would be better than it's current state. Like I said before, just because a Japanese developer might buy MK doesn't mean it'll be given a anime tint to it that you people for some reason fear like the plague.

If you can point out where I said Capcom was a PG13 anime company, I'd really like to see it. I most certainly didn't. Once again, I only focused on the examples that Crow gave, so don't blame me for focusing on a certain side when I was only citing examples that were given to me.

Well, I wouldn't give it to Phoenix Games :P

Obviously there are people who not only do care, but they absolutely don't want that to happen.


True and I, among other users, have said that as well. But the others clearly don't want to even think about such possibility. Only USMK! *sigh*



Of course that wasn't you who said so and I don't blame you for anything. But like you said, you were concentrating on one side, so I added other examples for the balance's sake.

Also, you can edit your...

The problem is you are lending yourself to people in this thread who are clearly uncultured and have no interest in opening their minds to anything more than their own narrow views on things. I personally couldn't care less who takes MK, if anyone does. Quality is what I care about, and there's no way that a developer that's Japanese would simply degrade MK's quality and any American developer would make it great... whatever quality you think MK has currently. My comments were replies to mkflegend, who did remark on the PG13 thing, and you are basically taking "his side" of the argument and giving yourself the appearance of someone who has a similar mind.

As far as DMC goes, you are veering off the original topic. That animation style was NOT part of the original discussion, it is different from Street Fighter's art style, which is the "animeish" that was being discussed here. I used it as an example to show Capcom's diversity, and that the art style isn't limited to bright colors and crisp lines. What you are trying to argue has no basis in this conversation; it wasn't the intended subject. It's rated M; it isn't an applicable part of the "omg not cutesy Japanese style!" that certain people are yelling about.

If you don't want people to reply to you like you're one of the other bigots in this thread, then don't defend their points for them. No one has any way of knowing where you stand once you go down that route.

I'm only defending my own points, not the points of others. Anyone who thinks I'm backing MKF is making a broad assumption and should probably stop.

And DMC does have that bishonen and dark anime style that I brought up. Not all anime is of the cutesy type, and I compared DMC already to the likes of Hellsing and Berserk as far as its style (not to mention the actual DMC anime), and I'd put that into the "rated M" category easily.

It's a style that, due to it's dark and brooding nature, MK could take if gobbled up by a Japanese developer, so I'd say it's quite relevant to the discussion.

Clearly someone in here is still trolling...sadly.

@Shingo although I know you're your own person and not me, clearly you and I are the only ones who are on the same page here....with this topic.



Ok, well although RE is dark in it's own way the style is clearly not the same as MK's. It may not sport that "anime" presense that SF has but it still has that Japanese style to it as oppose to US's. Not knocking it, just saying I don't want to see foreign MK.

Think of it like this, you said you would NEVER want to see another "The Crow" remake/film done right? Because in your opinion there was nothing wrong with the first one right? I happen to agree with you. Well...same thing in this case except it's a video game. I don't want to see any kind of MK reboot's under a foreign company. Capcom is capable of a lot yes I do give them that credit where due, but keep in mind so are Midway's US counterparts in Epic(GOW anyone?), Rockstar(GTA), EA(Dead Space) or even possibly Bungie(although they'd be my last pick of those choices)

You raise interesting points with RE and DMC series, I'm merely pointing out that since MK has never been foreign and hopefully never will be there's other US companies more then capable of making a good MK game not a doubt in my mind. Especially if they get Boon's past knowledge of MK with new testers, money, patches etc. Hell yeah...

So, the question would be would I rather see MK in the future made by Capcom or Epic, RS or EA? I think I'll go with the second choice. I'll also bet they would be more familiar with MK's essense and background more then the Japanese companies because for one as mentioned before the Japanese don't play/accept out ideas. They don't play GTA, MK, Halo or GOW as much as RE, SF, DDR etc, etc now do they? I hear what you're saying but you have to see what I'm saying here. You're acting as if every US company makes garbage games or something and seem very pro Capcom....

You have EA buy the series and there goes any hope of it being a good game again. EA screws up quite enough and isn't the greatest fighting game developer while a company like Capcom is. I rather have a fighting game series in the hands of a great fighting game maker. If that means the designs shift from over sized cartoons to over sized anime (as you and others seem to think) then so be it. You won't see a reboot with everyone looking like past MKs of real people. Just not gonna happen. So why the hell should it matter. if a company like that buys the franchise you better be on your knees thanking the deity of your choice that they are going to rebuild and improve the series whether it be a foreign or American company. A better game is a better game. Your argument is nothing but the rantings of a xenophobic mess that listens too much to the likes of those like Lou Dobbs. If the game was made by gaming company in Tajikistan and was a better game the Armageddon and others, then be thankful. You make MK seem like it has this air of greatness around it when it doesn't at all, it's a mediocre franchise. A reboot is well needed seeing as the story lost sense around MK3.

Like I said, the most important thing here to remember is it doesn't matter who gets a hold of the title but who is able to make it into a better game. if that means it not being made by an American company, so be it, get over it .

Bogus message to convey dude.

Consider this:

If the things you represent in your signature and avatar spaces (or otherwise in your life, as a matter of fact. things you wear, or buy ect), changed hands. Particularly cultural hands, you'd stop representing those things, and pick other things that represent you more accurately. Especially if aspects of what you like about those things, changed. Even if it were ever so slightly. Little things like "peace of mind", "comfort", "sanitation", "entertainment"...ect

In the meantime, you'd have something to say about it. You are democratic. The flag under your visit count alone tells me so.

All I'm saying is, apply the same standards to this discussion. Because it's the same thing.

===

Now, I've said already in this thread in length that I'm personally not fixated on "waving the flag" as a couple of you guys have branded the thinking. However, what you're saying doesn't dispute the fact that regardless of the country-of the company-that MK may be bought by......the culture of that company may//is likely to make an unpleasant "difference" for current fans of the franchise.

That's the only real beef here.

I mean, lets really put it into context, okay?...



Your avatar, is of some kind of rock band, right? Well, say their parent company went bankrupt, and needs to sell all their assets. Assume this happens, and they sell your bands rights to a foreign vendor (lets saay, its an Arabic vendor for the hell of it).

That Arabic vendor sees the "holes" in the production and marketing aspects of your group (again, for the hell of it, lets just assume that this new Arabic parent company is responsible for success prior to buying the rights to your groups music. "They know how to make a band successful.").

Okay now let's saaay, they make the necessary changes, right?

Well, those "necessary changes", changes the message the group delivers through its music....and that parent company, makes your group a success, but that also changes the market demographic for the group. hmm?

I. E. = YOU and yours are no longer the target audience. Ergo, YOU cease to become a factor in that groups success. Er-to-the-go, That groups message is now only relevant majorly to the Arabic community, and not so much to the American one. I.-to-the-E. the group now appeals to a more global demographic, and not so much to...."you". In particular.

So what? You mean to tell me, that you'd be in favor of the success of your band, even if it means they change their message (their "bread and butter" message), which means they had to change their market demographic (who they are selling that message to), and completely alienated.....you?

Admittedly, that's an extreme example. But if your answer is "yes, you would support that kind of change for your group", then I salute you. Because it's no longer "your" band. It becomes "a successful band that you once supported".

Okay now, I do-not-want an "Arabic" Mortal Kombat.....or a Japanese one. I don't care how good they are at programming and animating, or selling things. Those things don't make a difference, if what they do doesn't matter to me.

See what I'm saying?
============

The chances that they'll appeal to ME are unlikely from the get go, just because they approach fighting games differently.

Yes, Tekken, Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, and any of their other little replicas, has in them, exactly what I don't want in Mortal Kombat. I want the expertise in culture, and in game development, that they offer, in their games. haha...

That's...gotta be simple enough for anybody.

And as a matter of fact, their expertise includes Anime, and "Technically Correct Martial Arts". That's their big things, and I don't see a single thing wrong with saying "That's not what I want from//for Mortal Kombat."
==

In my own defense now, I do appreciate a gameplay mechanic that behaves appropriately. I do appreciate fantastic art styles. I do appreciate great graphics. I do appreciate a cohesive and coherent character build, and overall storyline.

Understand the difference now though, I like Anime, and I like Martial Arts (I'm guessing all the other people in this thread see the value in those things too). I like anime and martial arts enough to say that MK could possibly benefit from more of those types of influences. BUT, that doesn't mean I want the shit socialized throughout all the games I play, just because they are known for sticking with the same old worn out fighting mechanic(that works.....for them). That also doesn't mean someone who thinks like me, is "terrified" of the prospect of a foreign vendor taking over MK just because they're foreign. Nah, that's not it. And nah, I'm not trying to speak for everybody on this issue either. .

It ain't that deep. It's just that you're gonna be even harder pressed to find a foreign vendor that respects the culture enough to make the right game, over a native one. Which is hard enough to find.

A native vendor at the wheel, will be more likely to respect, and understand the psychology of the player they are selling to. From an immersed, innate, sort of standpoint. Rather than from a studied standpoint.

Have you even run into an individual that tried to assimilate themselves into your group? Doesn't matter how talented they are, the shit is weird and the group typically rejects the one trying to assimilate himself.

Or, have you ever been that assimilating individual that was rejected? Well basically, its the same thing here. I'm saying, why assimilate, when it isn't necessarily......necessary. We have "great" developers who understand fighting mechanics in America. We have great developers, who understand fighting mechanics, that are also fans of Mortal Kombat, in America. We even have great developers, who understand fighting mechanics, that are also fans of Mortal Kombat, that no doubt would be willing to buy MK, in America.

So why are you all so insistent on a prospect that essentially promotes.... outsourcing? Put up a case, that explains how MK would be better from the top down if MK were bought out by a foreign vendor. Please do try.

Also,

Why do you think some American games sell better in America, than in saay Japan? Or visa versa. I simply think that it's a Cultural Difference in the way each individual game is developed and marketed to its respective demographic.

Every game is meant for all to play...but they know what they're doing.

That makes you then a culturally bias prick who doesn't understand other cultures and fear it for no reason if you say their culture will ruin or taint the game. Do you honestly believe that if a foreign company got a hold of the title that they would say fuck everything this franchise has done and turn it into something like Dragonball Z? That's an asinine thought beyond all recognition. You are taking culture way too much into consideration on something so trivial as a third rate fighting game. Culture will not be such a big influence. Companies are out to make money, they know who the general target audience is for MK and know how to make it into a game that will sell tremendously. Maybe some things from that culture might carry over into the game but will that tarnish MK or make it not feel like MK anymore? If you say yes your out of your fucking mind.

By the way, the band example is quite the bad example.

I'm not sure if I'd say "great" maker of fighters since great is very rare with games but EA has made some very good games over the years and Dead Space is a sweet game. Has that MK feel written all over it. But in all honesty, I'd much rather have Epic take over. MK is already using their engine currently with a few MK people to assiste Epic I think you'll have a good MK game honestly.

You miss my point obviously if you think I'm just "ranting" because the fact that you just said "who cares if MK looks anime" so be it whatever, shows clearly you're not fully aware of what MK is about....

Let the japanese keep their "anime" style, and not mess up an American game that's known over the years to look anything but that. I disagree with you about the story but that's matter of opinion I suppose. It's still superior to other fighters easily if you ask me overall.

I'm not that worried because nothing has happened yet. Just listing my view like everyone else in here.

This is so pathetic. I can't believe he's still sitting there calling Resident Evil "anime styled". It's developed by a Japanese based company; that does NOT mean it's anime. It looks just as "American" as Dead Space, you are just being utterly ridiculous and biased to "your own kind". You really need to take a good long look at yourself and say, "Seriously?".

Only "anime style" I'd really apply to Resident Evil is the art for the first game (maybe part 2 as well) and Jill's MVC2 character.

I don't know what MK is about? It's fucking Mortal Kombat not the Bible of Gaming. There isn't anything to understand.

Ever see of a show called the Avatar? Yeah that's American but art and style is heavily based on anime and Chinese mythology yet it's one of the best and highly acclaimed American shows to come out in the past decade. So the idea that this so called foreign influence will hurt MK is a load of garbage.

Your view doesn't matter when your thoughts are of that of a retarded goldfish and are incoherent in sense.

How about making fanboyism/ultimate partiality/utter ignorance (often combined) a sufficient reason for a ban? It thoroughly offends other users belonging to the Homo Sapiens species as it contradicts logic.
EDIT:
To whom it may concern: learn how to read with comprehension.

-- Now that's just ass backwards. What I said actually makes me culturally inclusive, understanding, and appreciative of outside influences. To the point no doubt, that I would even recommend further influences from art styles such as anime in Mortal Kombat. I just don't appreciate the prospect of committing completely to something like that just for the sake of getting the "overhaul" you keep talking about. We keep talking about.

How did you calculate the exact opposite of that, from what I said?

-- I have no fear of "the country" or "the culture" of another company. I have a concern about the quality of the game going forward.

If you weren't so bent on your agenda, I think it'd be quite clear that this is my standpoint.

-- Do I believe that? Hell no! But I do understand the difference that always occurs once one culture, inherits something that they were not a part of shaping themselves.

What happens IS, they reshape the thing to make it fit they ways they have come to understand it. This especially happens, when you're talking about a similar artistry. "Fighting-Game-Development", in this case, IS that artistry. And it is a cultural difference. MAC vs PC....LINUX vs WINDOWS vs APPLE.

Let it penetrate.



-- You don't think so. I have no idea why. Okay, that's fine by me....BUT,

I do think so, because I've seen it happen before across all norms, medias, and social ecosystems.

-- I know what companies try to do with products, I also understand the benefits of intelligence as far as a companies marketing techniques are concerned. That should be obvious though, because in fact, I just explained that to you in length in my last post. So, okay, I get it. You don't comprehend that language. Or the way I said it...OR, of course, it could have something to do with the way our two cultures are conversing right now. Just sayin'.

-- No, I know it absolutely does happen. Cultures mix, and things change. How is that disputable to you? Also, what about that statement is making you think...that I think "the sky is falling just because of a foreign company might buy MK?" we have seen that happen time and time again and traditionally not work. You need to go outside some time and examine humans of different cultures attempting co-habitation.

-- No it was not a bad example. If you didn't understand the example, ask a question. K.I.S.S.?

*fun*

I never said half of the things that you have been insinuating. Where did I ever say anything about cultural diffusion? Not once did I ever say anything about cultural changes in games, foreign countries and America. I never did, I just said culture is not as big of a deal as the people here make it out to be when it comes to a developer taking over a game. The fact your brought it up has me some what puzzled and bewildered because it has nothing to do with the current interaction. The whole point of my past arguments was that culture will not be as big of an impact on how the game is made and will not effect the overall quality and likability of the game to other people around the world and not just the US. Now if you want to be a prick saying I don't know what I'm talking about then my turn for fair game:

You may know all about marketing and how developers think but take a step back. A company's goal is to make money, the sole object of any entrepreneur. Now if a foreign company takes over the franchise, they will do as they see fit not only to make the game better but also more marketable and appealing to a wider fan base. Now culture with that has nothing to do with it but flavors of the week instead on gamer preference which would allow a series to grow and change style of art and play to fit the demands of consumers. Now it may be an "anime" style that they feel will get more people to buy it or a dark and gritty style like past MK games. Whatever developer takes over albeit American or foreign will put business first and cultural desires for the game second. That's just economics 101 right there.

Now was I calling you a culturally bias prick? Not in the slightest. The post wasn't directed toward YOU but to people in general seeing as you are one of the more enlightened members here at MKO. If you did see it that way then I should have articulated that sentiment better for like I said it wasn't directed toward you but others who fear it going into a foreign developers hands.

What my argument is that there should be no fear in another developer whether it be foreign or domestic in getting their hands on MK. It does need an overhaul, a reboot. The story has not been coherent at all, the art has been lack luster, the game play has been broken among a mired of things. The mere fact that another company could take this franchise and make it into something better than it is is something that any fan of the franchise should be overwhelmed with joy. Those who sit here and say MK is an American title would be wrong. From this site alone you can see the solid fan base outside of the US and how it has been taken up by others. It doesn't belong to America but to those that know how to improve and better it so it can be satisfactory to many people on all different levels.

I think the main thing about this argument, is that alot of people don't want MK hybridized into a SF or Tekken knock-ff. Not neccesarily a problem with japanese design styling. Let's move on ok?

Alot of people (myself included) do not want MK to take on anime stylings, despite MK's basis in Japanese lore. Remember Anime is not the be all end all for japanese inspiration.

This is like the old Comic Vs. Manga debate. People love the X-Men, people love Manga, but when X-Men Manga comes out it's garbage, they don't mesh. Not because of either style being superior, or what country they are based in. But they just don't work together.

People want the X-Men done by Marvel, not a manga company, and likewise people want Manga done by Manga companies not Marvel. and appropriatley MK fans want to see MK done justice to what it is and not squarr holr tound pegged into an SF or Tekken/SC style, inversely I imagine people would be revolting if they heard SF or Tekken was being handed over to an american company.

Largely I don't think Mortal Kombat would mesh with either an SF style or a Tekken/Soul Calibur style. IF MK is going to be reinvented I don't think a company that already has a fighting franchise should take it on, because it will become that companies second string clone game to buy them another year of production time for the first string game. A company that doesn't have a big name fighting franchise should take it over, be it american, japanese or otherwise. That company should have a significant investment in the game, and should respect what came before, not necesarily continuing everything that fell apart in the last couple games, but reinvent it, reintroduce the characters, to appeal to modern audiences, like the early stuff in the Ultimate comics universe was to the Marvel Comics universe (though the Ultimate comics universe has become a swirling hellstorm of garbage recently).

This is a pointless, redundant, and ultimatley off-topic argument, let's give it a rest. and let's try and be respectful to other peoples tastes eh? Personally I can't stand to watch Anime, but you don't see me saying it sucks inviting pointless arguments like this.

I was against MK becoming Anime-influenced as well... until I remembered:

this.

this.


and this.


It's no more anime than SF, Tekken, or SC.