lol, someone wants a ban for difference of view did I just read? wow..

@Crow, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying so forget it...Capcoms style is not the same as ours. All i'm going to say, you either get it or you don't...




When did I ever say MK was "the bible of Gaming"? Ignorance can still take place despite who feels MK is "the bible of gaming or not".

Yes, Avatar a highly popular anime show where most of the characters look alike as usual. That show btw isn't true "American classic cartoon" like say TMNT or most of those oldschool US cartoons that are soley missed.


It's not a load of garbage because for one TONS of people on here and outside of here agree with me concerning MK NOT going foreign, despite who disagrees. Secondly, look I don't like anime or prefer that style but respect it since I have a huge interest in cartoons, animation etc. I just prefer MK stay US made, if you agree fine. If not, that's cool too but no need to go posting dumb insults when you just don't have an argument or disagree. If my opinion is too much for you, too bad. Ask me if I care.

Apparently some of us don't know that MK is made in America.






I dare say ignorance would be in particularly high occurance where ever the phrase "MK is the bible of gaming" might be uttered.

Then again, I'm not American, and am therefore part of the Nazi-Communist conspiracy making a bid for the MK IP to use economic strategum to finally destroy the US empire. We would've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling kids and their pesky dog.

Your forced meme got old days ago, btw.

Your out of your god damn mind if you think TMNT and other so called classics are better and higher achieving than the Avatar which is a cartoon and not an anime. The Avatar broke alot of ground within American animation where as recent years most American cartoons are far from doing so. And I don't see how they all look alike cause they don't.

Personally I don't care either if you don't like my view either. Your views are unfounded by wanting to keep a franchise "American" even though there is no reason to be worried about it all. Just because one company whether be foreign or not is not gonna shift the series so much that you would not be able to recognize it. It's asinine of you to think otherwise. Once again it's called globalization, just like McDonalds, Ford and others are no longer American, some day neither will other franchises be just American.

:: Oh, but one of the many supporting points I brought up, is that culture will effect the outcome, quality, and likability of the game for American, core fanbase members.

You shouldn't feel puzzled about that because it's as simple as understanding how to build the same thing in a different way. Which of course is evident in the fact that games such as SF, Tekken, SC, and the like come out differently than MK does.

Now obviously, I'm not saying that "I like MK the way it is now". Not at all
(eek). In fact, what I am saying is that I like those games because they are the way they are....But I only want THAT, from those games. That's why I ALSO buy those games.

See what I mean?

So, if what I'm familiar with happening -- happens, I will no longer have the choice of buying "THAT" from them, because it will all be "Them". dig me? I appreciate the choice. I also, actually, appreciate that there are products that I can buy from foreign vendors.

I don't want a monopoly in design, style, technique, or perception on how to build one type of thing. In this case, that one thing, is fighting games.

:: I am capable of being a "prick", but this in not at all one of those times. That weapon isn't necessary in this discussion.



:: No that is not "economics 101".

Before you start a project, you discuss and determine your target audience.

THAT is business and Economics......It's almost a quote from "the book". Hm...definitely one of the most common rules of thumb.

At any rate, culture is prevalent in that stage of development, and it often is homogeneous with conceptualizing. You're supposed to plan every aspect of a project out to minimize the margin for error, and allocate time and money in the event that something actually does happen that would rail against that plan (i.e. insurance).

:: I don't disagree with a company or entrepreneurs end goal, but if those entities lack the capacity to plan things out, the end goal is a moot point. Same thing with diversifying....same thing with debt to income. Hell, same thing with anything in or outside of a marketplace in our day and age.

That's why we're in this thread though hu? They failed at planning and it screwed everything up. Essentially.



Okay, okay. heh.



Few things here.

:: Your base point, I don't disagree with. I think we all should be happy that here presents itself, an opportunity for the game to get better.

However, that can happen in virtually any way, and can come from virtually anywhere. We shouldn't be stuck on "over there, or over here", but hey, look at the options eh?

Anyway,

:: Fear, in moderation is always necessary. It propels us to question things, and to reject the things we do not like.

:: Overhaul?, agreed. Reboot?, Nah..not essentially necessary. Will explain if warranted.

:: Story, Gameplay, Art? Majority rules that I agree. However at this point, a drastic change for the better, would be a bunch of subtle ones towards that goal. lol

:: I disagree with wholehearted, unquestioned, submission; "just because it' could be something, or someone new". It gets to be too "Evangelical Christian" at that point if you know what I mean. heh.. I'm more scientific, and like to question things more than being "overwhelmed with joy" about them.

:: Your point on ownership is valid. Right now though, MK is exactly an American fighting game title. And then there are Asian titles. I don't see anything wrong with saying that either way.


=-=-=

What exactly is this "MK style" people keep referring to? No offense to the character designers from the MK team... but they are very hit and miss. They are capable of creating great looking characters, but also equally capable of making a atrocity. Anyone that can possibly think MK's art style recently is "great" is fooling themselves.

God forbid a Japanese based company should buy MK, but what would be so bad about the darker style of games like Devil May Cry in MK? That's the perfect setting and mood for Mortal Kombat. It's dark and gothic, yet stylish and polished. It's much better than the sometimes clunky way the 3D Mortal Kombat games have come out looking. No one here is saying (I doubt) that MK needs to be just like Street Fighter, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur or any other Japanese based fighting game. I don't believe for one second any of these companies would make MK nothing more than a swap of one of these franchises. Why are you all assuming Japanese developers are stupid? No one is going to "violate" the "sanctity" of MK. The series will have darker themes and mood to it, no matter who takes over from here. The Japanese are just as capable of producing dark and gory games as Americans are, and in many cases even more capable.

Dark and gory is one thing, but are they able to capture the sense of satire that MK has been from the start?

What satire? Show me the use of "satire" in the 3D MK games. If you mean unfunny stereotypes like Bo Rai Cho and Jax, sure... a child could produce that.

His name is Rain and he wears purple... Purple Rain... Get it?

You're only talking about the 3D games? I could've sworn I said "from the start".

Besides, I thought we all agreed that the 3D MK games are where the team lost their focus, and it's one of the reasons it needs a change.

Ha ha...pure gold.

Actually, I could have sworn you said "has been". If you say something "has been", then that means it still is. If you feel the magic is gone, the correct term is was and clearly if you feel this way I don't understand your defense of this franchise staying in exclusive American hands.




I missed this somehow... but wtf... "ours"?! Dear God you really are prejudice.

Overall I guess we agree then accept on points of culture and economics of the situation. I never said they won't plan how to get their profits because they need to but my point is taking one developers culture into the mix is not nessceraly true when they will target those who will buy and purchase MK and make a profit. This could either be continuing the darker nature of it or cleaning it up a bit, it all depends whomever takes it over is either trying to make it into a great fighting game for fans of fighting games or one that is more aesthetically pleasing and visually grand and etc. The culture of the developers does not factor in as much as what they see the audience wants. Capcom could easily choose a style not similar to SF if they so choose to target another market

It all depends on their target audience on how the game will be made, this is true for foreign or American developers for an American developer could go the "anime" route if they felt it would make more money and gain a wider fan base. At this point it's about getting a good game out to people and making them want to buy it and if it means being a bit of a copy from different series, then it might happen until the results are in and innovation can set in.

My point is that whomever takes this project over can't make the situation must worse and if it means a foreign company adding some of their "flavor" or touch to it then so be it. This series does need a shake up

Immediate....past...tenses. *splodes.

This argument became soo flawed from the beginning that no amount of lulz can be extracted from it.

Actually, "has been" is usually referring to something that once was, and no longer is. Ever heard of someone being called a "has been"? It usually means they aren't what they used to be. Remember, "has been" and "is" are different things.

Shingo, I was pretty sure in the context you used it in, "has been" meant "was from the beginning and still is".

As in, why do we still have a two-party system in the USA, even though most people feel don't satisfied with either party? Answer: "Because it has always been this way." (And still is.)

"Has been" and "was" are different things as well; you can't just substitute one in the sentence and let it mean something else. This entire argument is based on the future of Mortal Kombat, so using something for past tense makes absolutely no sense. If the 3D games didn't have this quality, as you yourself say, then why bring it up at all? How can you lose something you're saying is already gone?

I'm done with this discussion. You continually miss my point and twist and deconstruct my comments into whatever you want, completely ignoring the fact I've already clarified myself.

Good day, sir.

No. I mentioned the fact the 3D games are where they lost focus. The original games had this level of comedic satire, like a cross between cheesy kung-fu movies and Big Trouble in Little China.. MK has changed from what is "has been", and it's been enough to disenfranchise fans and warrant change.

Also, remember, you said "has always been" in your example, which wasn't what I said.

"Mike Tyson has been the heavyweight champion of the world", as opposed to "Mike Tyson has always been the heavyweight champion of the world".

I understand now. Even though I disagree somewhat, as I still feel that MK has a cheesy kung fu movie feel to it (Bo' Rai Cho/Drunken Master especially), the "dark" and "mystery" elements to it are equally a part of what makes MK MK. Rather than go off on minor things that we have a difference of opinion on, however, I'd just like to point out that this whole discussion is becoming rather hostile (unnecessarily) from people on both sides of the argument. I don't blame you for leaving it.

A lot of folks here need to learn civility. Different people have different tastes, and some of us need a reminder that our own point of view isn't the only one. Some people here need to go to Tolerance Camp.

Let me rephrase that. "We have a two-party system because it has been that way from the beginning." I think we can agree that "has been" in general is just an ambiguous phrase; and you've since clarified your stance.

You're the one who asked for this discussion Shingo, if you didn't intend to see the debate out then you shouldn't have quoted my response and replied. This whole side discussion wouldn't have taken place otherwise. I still don't see the clarity of some of your points, and like I said I don't see the need to bring up qualities MK has not had this century. I asked a simple question, but if you don't want to answer it that's fine.

Like I said before, I have no interest in what country the company that takes over the reigns of MK is from, just so long as it continues and it's a quality product. That ought to be the foremost concern of anyone. What sickens me is the closed minded in this thread, who think (mostly in a very laughably biased manner) that one country knows more than another one does, or something was "invented" in a location it really wasn't. The United States was founded on diversity and by people with different backgrounds... some of you would do well to remember that.

Crow, I think it's funny how both you and Shingo agree on a point (the newer MK games are darker and less satiric than the older ones) and somehow it's turned into an argument. Especially when you consider that the point that you both agree on is one few may actually be inclined to agree with you on.

I think it has to do with the fact I think it was a good change, and he misses that satire (which I never viewed as very clever honestly. It was a little TOO cheesy often times). But I know a lot of people like it, and I'm not going to argue against it. I just don't understand the point of mentioning it. It doesn't exist now, so why couldn't a Japanese company be capable of inserting satire? Asians aren't capable of self-parody? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Lei Wulong that sort of character?

Regardless, it's not present... and Midway is an American company. I just don't see any reason to bring it up, but even if you do... I would think a logical person wouldn't assume other American companies have some sort of better knowledge of how to create cheesy kung-fu styled products.

I think it's possible as long as the Original Creators (Boon and Tobias) are innit and get their freedom in creating it. Whether they work under a japanese or american company. EDIT: "The sense of satire MK HAD(!) and lost along the way" should be the sentence.

Some good words to kinda describe everything (the way it was) n general are:

: Pseudo realistic styled "photo realism" - hints of "cartoon"
: Americanized-Asian influenced styled fantasy
: Highlander or maybe even Warlock styled action//violence
: 80's Horror movie genre styled horror
: probably 50's-80's Martial Arts style. Heavy on the Asian influence.
: and then lastly, some slap-stick, dry, and practical joke humor

and then the "mood" and all that, comes together when those sorts of things collide.

Those things updated // modernized, it might look like:

: Re-visualized Pseudo realistic styled "photo realism" -shouldn't be much of anything cartoon about it now.
: Bad Dream // Nightmare fantasy
: Hollywood action//violence, influenced by Anime (mmm... Cowboy Bebop // Ninja Scroll come to mind off the top of my head.)
: 00's Horror movie genre styled horror (I'd go with something like The Devils Rejects, and or something like The Mist)
: probably 50's-00's Martial Arts influences from more than the Asian source. But this is where the bulk of the Asian influence would come from.
: and then lastly, dry and//or intellectual humor

Eh, that's really vague but, MK's style is identified through the combination of those types of things. I think that if they have that sort of formula, creating the mood and all that becomes apparent as the result.