well raiden did say mortal kombat "WILL ALWAYS BE" in the mkda prologue speech..........does that prove they(gods) can see the future?

Mortal Kombat has always been, and always will be...
For millennia, the forces of good and evil have been locked in eternal battle over the control of Earthrealm.
Some seek to use the tournament to destroy all that is good.
Others seek vengeance, power, or eternal life.

Or maybe he's just trying to sound wise and deep, lol.

Nah remember the medallion comes from the Lin Kuei. It's what the grandmaster holds to show his position and obviously gives some kind of power boost.

Also if some of those endings hold true this time, then Sektor now holds the dragon medallion. So, now it would be a bit of a reversal. He would find his armor this time and perhaps then he would take the dragon medallion from Sektor.

i have always wondered what kind of "power boost" increase the medallion gave cyromancers. I mean, is it really worth trying to take if you could defeat someone who uses it?

Lol. True dat.

However, it must give a great boost because that, combined with his armor, combined with blaze's power after armageddon he gained god like power.

I would actually like this to be explored again. Him gaining godlike power was awesome to me and gave him a reason to always be around sort of like Scorpion. However, don't go the blaze route of doing this.

A Subbie fan thinking it is great that Subbie became godlike...
Don't you even think it is slightly too much for a common assassin? Isn't it enough that Scorpion became an Elder Gods Chosen One? All this favourising of those characters are pulling the characters' potential away from them. Becoming a god is not something that fits Subbie, even less than him turning cyborg, in my opinion. He was a Grandmaster of a guild of assassins with supernatural powers, he didn't need to become a god to become interesting.

But yeah, let's see where he'll end up now that he's a cyborg.

Well, I guess I said that wrong. I do want him to have god like power, but I don't want him to be a god. I mainly just want him to have godlike power
so that he cannot die.lol. Yea that may be asking a little much, but what if you found out that this woman in jade's ending made her unable to die. Well, I would also like that too cuz I'm a jade fan.

If he was walking around in Raiden's position though and was Earthrealm's protector then I would absolutely hate that. You're right it would not fit his character at all. However, if he somehow became so bada** that he gained godlike power with all that he had been through then I don't think that's completely out of character. Also the god's were going to target him for gaining this power which I think would also have been awesome.

Also, you're right he didn't need to become a god to become interesting. In my eyes he already was interesting, even if he wasn't too you.

Now that he's a cyborg he can't really change that much. I'm sorry but a cyborg looking to do ANYTHING besides trying to somehow get their humanity back is just absolutley ridiculous, unless they wanted to become a cyborg in the first place. If they make Sub-Zero's character into one where he is fine with being a cyborg, then he won't be sub-zero. That is something that he would have fought to the death for in the old timeline, his humanity. Now in this timeline if he just stops searching for his humanity and is like yay I'm a cyborg then it will not be Sub-Zero plain and simple. However, he can't search for his humanity and still be interesting because guess what Cyrax already has that story. That's the problem, there's only so many ways you can go with being a cyborg if you want to keep these characters motivations in tact.

Also, I've already brought this up and maybe it can be argued, but appearance wise Sub-Zero will never change again. He's went from Ninja to Maskless, to old man, to shredder looking, to bald with a ponytail, to now a cyborg. However, if he stays a cyborg then he will never change again. Look at Sektor and Cyrax their appearance's have changed the least out of any character in the series over the years and that's mainly because they can't change drastically and have it be somewhat realistic. Their robots now and that's all they ever can be. That's why turning Sub-Zero, one of the most iconic video game characters ever, into a cyborg was a bad idea. So, all these people arguing about change should look at that. Sub-Zero will never be anything but blue cyborg ever again.

I would absolutely hate that, in all honesty. What makes Jade awesome is that she is a common mortal and STILL kicks all sorts of ass. She doesn't need all sorts of godlike powers to be awesome.



Oh woah woah... Hold up. When did I say Subbie wasn't interesting in the old timeline? I loved Subbie's old storyline. That he changed the Lin Kuei to become honourable again, that he explored his Cryomancer ancestry, that he fights for a world who doesn't appreciate him and sees him as a common assassin... I loved all that. And he doesn't need any godlike powers to become interesting. It would just make it cheesy - just like it was incredibly cheesy and unnecessary with the whole Scorpion thing.



You seem to limit the potential of Subbie, even as a cyborg. Saying there's nothing for him to do than to try and gain back his humanity sounds like lack of fantasy. I could imagine Subbie accepting the fact that he is now in an artificial body, but still has his soul and free will, and then trying to show the world that he is more than just a robot. That even as a cyborg, he can still do all the things he could in his old storyline.

First he would be freed from Quan Chi's clutches and that can be obtained by defeating Shinnok and Quan Chi in the next game. Then he would defeat Sektor and take over the Lin Kuei, becoming a Grandmaster of it and then steering it into the right path. Just because he is a cyborg doesn't mean he can't do those things. There are no rules against it.

I really don't feel I am though. You can imagine it all you want, but that's out of character for him. Which seems to be something that people don't want to bring up for him. Sub-Zero does have character you know. He's a good guy, who's done bad things in the past, but has overcome them. He also sees humanity as an untradeable thing, which is even brought up in MK9's storyline, and he is the shining light of humanity in the old timeline. If he just suddenly is okay with being a cyborg and says I think I'll just stick this way, then that's completely out of character. Him doing anything besides trying to become a human again just won't seem right. Especially when most, not all, but most Sub-Zero fans will keep saying why isn't he a human? Why did they do this to him? I've said it before and I'll say it again. Smoke fans wouldn't shut the hell up until Smoke was a human again. Do you really think that Sub-Zero fans are going to do any different?

Also, everyone keeps saying that he can still do the same things in this new timeline as he did in the old timeline. However, why? I like some aspects of his story but some need to be changed. I don't want him to reform the Lin Kuei this time, I want him to break them for what they did to him and disband the organization all together. I want him to find his old armor but that's mostly just because I like his deception gear, however he can't even wear that now because he's a cyborg. People don't want to admit it but being in a metal shell and being a cyborg just lacks something that being a human being does. You can no longer relate to that character as you once would have because he's not a human anymore, at all. Sorry he may say he has his humanity, but in all aspects he does not. He may have thoughts but one reprogram and he doesn't anymore.

I can't look at my refrigerator and say Yea I relate to you. It's just not the same.

Also you didn't say that his story wasn't interesting. However, you kind of made it seem like I was saying his story wasn't interesting and I thought he needed to become a god to be interesting again. The again also made it seem like you thought his story had lost luster, but I didn't feel that it did. His story was one of, if not the most consistently good story's in the old timeline. Which is why people are so pissed now. He had an amazing story and they threw that down the drain for some shock value. I mean they killed cyber subby. Nothing says shock value like creating him and then killing him right after.

I think it was Razer who said they should have took the good parts from the old timeline and left them alone and worked on characters who needed more development. They didn't do that though. They took good story's and ruined them, and didn't give the characters that needed attention any attention. Reptile and Baraka I'm talking to you lackeys. They aren't the only ones though.

I see him becoming a cyborg more as another struggle for him than a total overhaul of his character. To me it doesn't define his character wether he is human or not, because there is so much more to him than that! Unlike Smoke who had little to no storyline going for him in the old timeline. Those who preferred one form over the other didn't do so, because of his storyline potential. Smoke didn't have any real storyline, just a few pointers like he was part of the Lin Kuei and friends with Subbie, then became a cyborg against his will and then forgotten in Shao Kahn's dungeon until Noob found him. He was just thrown around without being fleshed out as a character. He finally got a good base and backstory in the new MK and is ready to become more fleshed out in the next couple of games, however, Subbie already had a fleshed out character. We know how Subbie is as a person. Becoming a cyborg won't change that, it is just another struggle.

That's how I see it anyways.

I wish I could see it like that, but I just don't. I probably never will either.

Smoke had a story. It was given to cyrax though, and they dropped Smoke pretty much all together until Deception. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably because they couldn't think of anything to do with another cyborg besides what Sektor and Cyrax were already doing. That's why Smoke ended up in the crappy situation that he was in.

Sub-Zero is a great character, but he's not so good that he can overcome being a metal shell who cannot show emotion. I really don't think any character is. If he became the grandmaster again, I'd think well great we have blue sektor as Lin Kuei Grandmaster.

Actually. there's one of the main problems right there I think I just found it with that statement. When your a cyborg there is no individuality. All three of them Sektor, Cyrax, and Cyber Sub-Zero are all just machines, and that's all they ever will be. If you spray painted them all the same color they would all look somewhat the same. Couple that with lack of visible emotion and it just doesn't make for a great character.

I really don't know what else to say to it thought. It's clear that we disagree, and probably will continue to disagree. Being a robot just lacks the it factor of being a human. I largely think it all goes back to being relateable though. You cannot relate to a Robot because you aren't one and in real life you will probably never become a robot. Let's hope not anyway.

Another thing. Anything Sub-Zero did in the old timeline was essentially proving Sektor wrong, because Sub-Zero was a human.

If he does those same things now it just proves Sektor right. Making Sub-Zero a cyborg made him strong enough to overcome Sektor, because remember he couldn't escape from Sektor in Kahn's arena and Sektor was a cyborg. This also sets it up so that Sektor always wins. Even if Sub-Zero beats him physically, it will never mean as much because Sektor still won the mental game because he was right all along. That is not good from a story line perspective either because you want to route for the good guy but Sektor will always, always have something over Sub-Zero. Therefore it is impossible for Sub-Zero to completely win and say that Sektor was wrong all along.

Don't take this the wrong way, I mean no offense by this... But from what I just read, it's not the cyborgs that's the problem. I can see the individuality of the three current cyborgs. They are very different.

It's you, however, who just sees them as machines. That's the problem. It's your view of them that seems to be what is stopping you from seeing their potential.

Again, I mean no offense by it at all, so I hope you won't take it like that.

when you become a cyborg how do you still have a soul though? isnt that the point of the operation, to remove you from your rational mind away so you cant think on your own? whenever the insides of the cybrgs are shown, i see nothing but metal and wires. i only see human skin on top of it. seems to me like they are really just full advanced robots

jax looks more like a cyborg me.

They have some human tissue and major organs still. Like Cyrax in MK4 and DA, with his helmet and sleeves off, you can see he still has skin underneath, he looks like a cross between Robocop and Cyborg from the Teen Titans. Their faces are also partially revealed by battle damage in MK9 when you play as their retro costumes.

And in the battle damage for Cyber-Sub's primary you can see human brain.

...A lot of brain. Ugh.

And obviously, though the whole point of the automation was to replace their ability to think with the ability to be programmed and have a computer in their head do the thinking for them...that programming has proved to be pretty flimsy and once it malfunctions or is altered or deleted, they regain their ability to think freely with their human personalities and memories returning.

Yeah, they are cyborgs, not robots and there's a fine difference between the two. But people don't care, like they keep calling Subbie, Rain, Ermac etc for ninjas when in reality, they aren't. Oh well.

Ninja is just a specific culture's term for stealthy masked assassins, which all those characters are.

Also, canonically the Lin Kuei actually invented Ninjutsu and the Japanese stole it, so Sub-Zero, Smoke, etc. technically are real ninjas.

But you already know both those things, you just like making the argument.

It was to compare the use of the correct terms.
I'm still on the fence about it, but I can accept the members of the Lin Kuei being called ninjas then due to them being those who invented Ninjutsu, as you said... But then Ermac, Reptile, Kitana, Mileena, Jade and those others who are NOT Scorpion or of the Lin Kuei shouldn't be called ninjas, because they are not even from Earthrealm. It's details and technicalities, I know, and I know that's why people don't bother correcting themselves.

However, my point is that it is the same with the cyborgs. Calling them robots isn't really the correct term for them, as they are still human, at least in some parts, where a robot is 100% artificial, build from scratch. But even Ed Boon calls them robots and call Ermac, Kitana etc. for ninjas, so when not even the developers care to use the right terms for their characters, I guess in the end it doesn't really matter. It's just something that bothers me, though, because it's something that is important to me.

But yeah, people just don't care...

J-Ra has a point (that has been widely discussed about six months ago already). But the fact that NeRdS themselves write Cyrax and Sektor as robots (see: achievement) and Reptile as a ninja (see: Human Smoke MKT ending) justifies newcomers to use the words wrongly as well. This just proves how accurate they are in details after all, I suppose.

[The worst misconception]

lol. i always used to think kitana and rain was ninjas.

why would reptile turn invisble if he could just blend in with the crowd as a humanoid? i mean thats more believable than his species knowing how to turn invisible. which probably just means they are chameleons, that blend in with the color of their surroundings. then once he taste human flesh he could copy their dna insides his body and make his physical features more human.

Well, as mentioned above, they are all called ninjas, even if it isn't the correct term, so I don't blame you. :P

Reptile turning invisible seems like a trait taken from a chameleon's ability to blend with its surroundings. It is basically the same with Reptile, but on such a high level that he simply seems to vanish, but if you look closely, you can still see the outlines of his body.

I'm not taking it wrongly, however I still disagree. While there are...personalities inside of them it doesn't matter. The thing about it is that personality can easily be overridden. Just like Smoke. Noob took him and made him a slave. Again. As long as Sub-Zero is a machine, I will see him as nothing more than just that... a machine.

He cannot reproduce nor can he show emotion. Also like I said Sektor, as long as Sub-Zero is a cyborg, will always be the winner in that situation. Sub-Zero's whole character is just ruined to me. Honestly, I'm glad you see it differently, but I can't and won't. They might as well color Sub-Zero black and call him cyber saibot.lol. Cuz I just won't care unless he's a human again, his whole stance on humanity and being strong willed is just crushed unless he does become human again. No matter how many people try to spin it into a positive, sub-zero becoming cyber will always be a negative to me. Also, when I say human I don't mean ninja either. He can come back in any attire as long as it's not cyber. I know some people will probably try to bring that argument up that I just don't like change. However, there is so much change that can still take place with him as a human.

what if he turns to a cyborg but he has a plot like in the matrix. where the machines realize they dont need their master and beome rational thinkers. then they begin to rebel against their masters and become their own "person".....this would make the character sound to evil though i guess.young sub is all about changing for the good

If this continues to be a major issue (Sub-Zero turning into a cyborg) and also other issues with the story plot like Cage and Sonya currently being the only mortal survivors in Earthrealm, NRS is going to have a second alternate timeline happen in MK10. I think what will happen is similar to how the opening scene in MK9 had Raiden being thrown around by Shao Kahn and him trying to send a message back to his past self, something like that will also happen except with Quan Chi or Shinnok instead of Kahn. That way, everything starts over again. The problem is then it just seems like its becoming a habit of the Mortal Kombat series "recycling" itself by using alternate scenarios and just eventually turns off people if its done too many times. But I am in favor of NRS doing a second timeline in MK10. and I bet Raiden would think twice about letting Sub-Zero get taken by Sektor and Cyrax for automation.

I just don't know that they'd do this. i rather think they will have a story where someone is "fixing" everything that has went wrong.

If you're right though and they do have a back in time story again then they better get some things right.

First. No more cyber characters unless their names are cyrax and sektor. The only other option that should even be thought of is Hydro.

Please don't F up Kitana and Mileena's relationship this time. They grew up together, Kitana didn't just meet her. Also Mileena doesn't have the mind of a child.

Do SOMETHING with Reptile and Baraka and Sheeva. Don't just put them in the game as punching bags.

Do Not over expose Quan Chi again. This was supposed to be Shang's time to shine. He will always be my favorite villain right after Noob and will always be my favorite Main villain. He deserved so much more but that friggin bastard stole it from him.

Make it so that Raiden doesn't look like a complete idiot. Also Raiden didn't have an amulet. Like ever.

Also, please don't make all of the heroes meet in one place ever again. I didn't understand that scene anyway. Why did they all meet in the church? I've said it before and I'll say it again. That felt too much like Justice League or something. All of the bad guys don't meet in one area and their are certainly good guys that don't get along with each other. So don't make them all meet in one area. I just absolutely hated that scene. I get they are all fighting for a common cause but that doesn't mean they all have to meet together.

There are others but those are the main ones. If they cover up some of the most blaringly idiotic parts then I can look over the more minor errors.

That actually sorta happened in the original canon. Just not in the church.

Raiden sent visions to all the chosen ones telling them to travel to Nightwolf's reservation, because it was the only place on Earth protected from Shao Kahn's magic. From there they plotted to march into the city and counterattack Kahn's castle.