so you wouldnt have smoke as a cyborg n the first place? what story wold make him more than just subs best friend with good gameplay. i mean most just like him because of his rip off moves of scorpion and hes that hes a ninja.

how did sektor thnk to betray his masters? is someone in the back ground controlling him like quan chi??

Honestly I love Cyber Smoke. He's my 3rd. I have five favorites. Sub-Zero, Jade, Cyber Smoke, Rain, and Noob Saibot.

He's awesome to me and one of my favorite characters in the series. However, I now know how Smoke fans must have felt with Smoke being Cyber because as a fan of MK, I won't lie it crushed me seeing them turn Sub-Zero into a friggin cyborg. I hate it, and if that's how Smoke fans felt before then I don't want anyone besides Sektor, Cyrax, or Hydro to be cyborgs ever again.

They just need to be more original with Smoke this time. The only way I would ever want Smoke to become a cyborg again is if they gave him a storyline where he felt like his powers were less than powerful compared to everyone around him. Then it just gradually tore at him and tore at him until some event happens where he see himself as weak. Then he goes and finds Sektor and says Yea remember the automation, I want it.

what signincant storyline did smoke have in mk1-mk2?? he was always a cyborg when came into the series! subzero was not.


so why would fans be attached to somthing that never was in exsistence?

smoke as a cyborg is better in my opinion because it gives you a reason to care about him other than his cool moves and the smoke effect. he was changed against his will. cyrax is the one who should have escape, then hooked up with sp, and get a few cyber enhancments like jax.....since he kinda likes the tech but still wants to be control of his mind.

Andif you wanted the human ninja look, he could change his NANO tech to emulate a human physical appearance........since he would be trying to become human again anyways.

That's true.

People tend to forget that by Armageddon, the three cyborgs had completely separated from one another and each had found their own unique niche that made them interesting.

Sektor kept the MK3 look and character-wise was the most robotic, almost to the point where there was no human left in him at all and you might as well call him a full-on Artificial Intelligence.

Cyrax had gotten some flesh back and was working for the military, he was the most human.

And Smoke had been taken to the Netherealm and become something different entirely, a cyber-demon, which would still play great with his new "Enenra" origin story, you could say it was like once he arrived in Hell, his true nature was no longer dormant and came out to combine with and take over the technology.

But now, with Smoke not a cyborg anymore...he'll be JUST a demon when his true form is revealed, and there's already so many demons in Mortal Kombat. The addition of the nanite body is what made it twisted and interesting...and yes, I bet he could have used the nanobot powers for shapeshifting and looked human if he wanted to.

Smoke started as a human in MK2. Don't assume that MK3 should be looked at as his proper introduction; it isn't.

And Scar_Subby is right; back when MK3 came out, I was disappointed as hell that they didn't do what they did for Reptile in MKII - give him his own moves. Instead they took their original early plans to make Scorpion a robot, and just slapped Smoke with the role instead. That's a major part of his 2011 appeal to me; he's finally a fully actualized character with his own unique moves. And if you want to talk about things happening to him against his will, look no further than his new storyline. He was made a human sacrifice.

And if anything, the major push I see for Cyber-Smoke around these parts comes from the nostalgia factor of having his UMK3 moveset back. God willing, that never happens.

It boggles my mind continuously how people go on and on about how "X Smoke was better." They're the same damn character. I like him either way, and I love his new Enenra plotline.

Been saying it for ages now; the only way both sides of his fanbase will be satisfied is if he goes through the process but somehow manages to escape halfway through it. His could become a desperate struggle, a strain to hold onto his humanity, fighting against his programming, and feeling himself giving in to his supernatural side with the effort. There's still room for him to become a cyber-demon yet. Hopefully when/if that time comes, he just doesn't become a tool for Noob again. The Lin Kuei are still alive and kicking, and when he gets back you know they're going to go after him again.

I wish more of these Sub-Zero fans were more like you.

Probably not.

Sure, Sektor seems to have won the battle for control of the Lin Kuei this time around and thus can automate new people, but Smoke's in the Netherealm now. I mean what, are we to expect Quan Chi will ally with the Lin Kuei and just hand his zombie Smoke over to them to load him up with weapons and shit? Why? The point of automation is mind control and he's already mind controlled. Are we to believe the Lin Kuei will oppose Shinnok's invasion and do so by attempting to capture their zombies and make rotting Frankensteins with Missile Launchers out of them?

There's a good reason the robot makers LOST in the original timeline, and that Sektor and Cyrax had barely fuck-all to do in the original MK Gold, and that Sub-Zero turned the clan good in Deadly Alliance. The Lin Kuei as a villain faction are fucking irrelevant to everything else. The only thing that has ever made the clan matter to the plot was their ties to Sub-Zero and he's now cut off from them by virtue of being dead and mind controlled by a more important villain.
And we saw what happens when they try to make the Lin Kuei part of the main plot instead of just a Sub-Zero subplot in this game, they just straight-up made them henchmen for Shang and Kahn at every turn. And it sucked.

Never say never. No one expected Liu Kang to return from the dead as a zombie. Hell, no one expected him to be killed so easily in the first place. And no one expected so many things about the Story Mode of the new MK. Yet they happened.

Sure, it CAN happen. But me, I like things to make sense, so I always argue from a position of "Why WOULD it happen?"

But if MK9 is the standard for quality from now on, then we should obviously start getting used to the things that happen being completely out of nowhere, making no sense, outright contradicting themselves at times, and just plain being blatantly retarded.

So sure, get ready for MK10, wherein Quan Chi sells Smoke's soul to the Lin Kuei for no discernible reason and they turn it into a robot zombie. A robot zombie of a demon in disguise as a human who doesn't even know he's really a demon.
A robodemozombie. A cyberzombemon. A mechacorpsedevil. Hey, I like that one. Sounds like a vaccuum cleaner. Or a metal band. MechaCorpseDevil 5000!

I don't expect Smoke to remain dead for very long, however (to say nothing of Sub-Zero), especially not if they intend on bringing back the most popular characters. Last time I checked, he was number 5 on the MK site's list.

Through whatever means, Raiden's going to want to make a push to get some of his men back for the fight against Shinnok, because Johnny and Sonya aren't going to be enough. They killed off too many big names...not that I think Fujin, Kenshi, Bo Rai Cho, and that guy from MK4 that barely anybody cares about much aren't up to the task, but bringing them back is going to be a priority, both for Raiden...and for the many new competitive players who've come to like using certain characters (hello Kung Lao, here's a free pass back to life for you. Sorry 'bout the neck). 2 straight years at EVO, now...I never would have believed it.

I'm not going to try and predict how it'll happen, though. All I can say is I'm sure Smoke will be breathing before long. If they're smart, they'll use his time in the Netherealm to awaken his Enenra form somehow. Once he's back to life, we'll see how fast the Lin Kuei go after him.

I wonder about how big a part the cyberninjas will play next time on the whole. Wouldn't surprise me if we only got one back for now.

I just don't agree. Being cyber rips a character of freedom. I've said it time and again though, so you know how I feel.

I can see Shadaloo's point. However, I can also see Hyperman and Razer's views too.

I can see Shadaloo being upset that Smoke never originally got to be a human and is just now getting to be one. I don't agree however with him saying they are the same character though, Cyber Smoke never had freedom and now human Smoke does and that can make a character. Like if Smoke and Sub-Zero were not under Quan's control, Smoke would be able to go off and do whatever the hell he wanted and be viewed as normal. Sub-Zero wouldn't be able to do that because he's a monster now and that's how people would view him. I'm surprised they didn't at least show that in MK9's storyline as well. I mean when he freed those soldiers they were all saying thanks man, like they didn't even notice he's a freaking robot. You know some of them had to be like man let's get away from it before this thing turns on us, or thinking wonder who's controlling him? One or two were probably thinking how can we get control of this thing for use ourselves? Cause that's how it'd be in real life. If we see any kind of android or robotic thing in real life we immediately think who's controlling it and can I use it? It's the same with Sub-Zero. He'd just be viewed as a thing not a person. That's why I don't agree with any of them being turned cyber.

On Hyperman and Razer's point though, I can somewhat see why Smoke would be turned instead of Sub-Zero though. Sub-Zero appeared as playable in MK2 and already had a storyline building, plus the monacre of popular character, so they didn't want to touch him. Smoke however, had none of that and didn't have a story either. Turning him cyber gave him something and had they capitalized on it in the old timeline it might have turned out better. Also, let's look at it this way. Did Smoke really do anything of significance this time around besides cry that Sub-Zero got turned? That's all he was there for was to still be support for Sub-Zero, even when Sub-Zero is the cyborg Smoke is still the supporting character and probably always will be. So turning Smoke in the old timeline made sense and honestly this time around still would have made more sense because it would have gave Smoke something more besides being sidekick to Sub-Zero. Maybe NRS just doesn't know how to deal with Smoke.

I can somewhat agree with Razer too on Smoke being an Enenra. I mean there are already demons Scorpion(spectre), Noob(Wraith), I mean is enenra going to be just another race of the netherrealm? It just seems like the demon thing has been done already.

There's all kinds of perspectives there and none of them are wrong but none are completely right either.

All I can say in the end is if a cyber character is going to be introduced it should be a non-existing character to bite that bullet. Like Cyrax and Sektor when they were introduced.

Give it time. Sub-Zero went on to do great things, but it took him two more games before he was leading the Lin Kuei. He hadn't done much at the end of MK3 - where this game ended - except for slipping back into the shadows after leaving the clan and helping to bring down Kahn. Smoke too left the clan and contributed to the fight - unfortunately here everyone died. And he does have something new - as a bonus, we've got the knowledge that he's really something supernatural, so it's a potential start, even if it wasn't addressed in Story. And, yeah, he's another spiritual presence in a world with one specter ninja, one wraith ninja, one ninja made out of souls, etc, but I don't think it's any more superfluous than having three cyber-ninjas, really.

Not that I'd ever say Smoke will have Sub's A-list status or starring role, but things are different for the character now; NRS put some real work into him for once. There's nothing that says a supporting character can't go on to have a good solid role in the plot - Kung Lao for example, in the old timeline. They gave him a nice place in MKDA - too bad that they botched that by killing him off so he and the other heroes ended up mind-controlled (sounds familiar) under Onaga.

They should have just pulled the friggin trigger on Sub-Zero and Scorpion teaming up in MK4. They kind of hinted it when they said Scorpion was going to be Sub-Zero's protector but then they had to make them rivals again, which ultimately led to nothing. Should have been them two teaming up to take down Quan Chi. I'm not of the people who want these two to team up forever, but you would think that in the 20 years it's been around they would have teamed the two up at least once. Especially with two common enemies now in Quan Chi and Noob.

Back to the topic though. I'm not saying that it's not possible for Smoke to be interesting. He didn't scream starring role in MK9 either though. The real point I was really agreeing with Razer and Hyperman is that if one or the other, Sub-Zero or Smoke, should have been turned cyber, then by a long shot it should have been Smoke. I think Smoke should become an unhinged beast as far as his next phase goes. I don't know for some reason I just liked him better as the person fighting for his humanity. I loved how he still remained part of it in Deception and recognized his friend in Sub-Zero when he arrived in the Netherrealm. Even though he did attempt to kill him after that.lol

Honestly talking about Liu Kang and Kung Lao, I've always liked Kung Lao better. He just comes across as less generic than Liu Kang, although Liu Kang did a major upgrade to me in MK9 as far as being generic goes.

Yeah Cyrax would be better as a cyborg because no one knew him when he came into the series. I agree with that point.

Sektor cyborg version is more like AI(Matrix), like Razor said. The writers should have said that though............no way this dude goes around doing whatever he wants(challenge his master) unless some one is programming him to do so. The point of the operation is to have FULL control over their mind. So sektor is written very poorly to me in that aspect.

Smoke was a secret fighter in mk2 right? So was Jade if I recall correctly, but she was palette swap of Kitana and he was a copy of Subzero(ninja). These fighters leeched off already developed characters to gain popularity. The writers made them into characters with some plot in MK3, but before that, they were just old designs with different colors. And even in MK3 Smoke was still leeching of Scorpion interms of gameplay moves, which made him even more popular.

Smoke never was his own person completely, until in MK9........ Vogel should have just kept him as a cyborg this time around and left Sub Zero human. Sub's story is already GREAT, why would you even touch him? He's like the best fighter and most developed character of the series. It seems like Ed Boon retconned MK for fans No$talgic wishes more than to enhance plot lines and correct storyline mistakes.

Has anyone ever fell asleep then tried to wake up but you couldnt? Your conscious mind is aware of what is going on, you just can't CONtTROL your body to you wake up. Sometime you try to roll off the bed in order to shake your self and wake up....... lol....... I imagine thats how smoke feels as a cyborg.

I guess we can dismiss it as Daddy Sektor didn't want his son to become a complete robot like the others and left him with his free will.

In the original timeline his programming was corrupted from the Outworld merger and that's why he turned on the Grandmaster [we didn't know he was Sektor's Father at that point] and took control over the clan only to lose it to Sub-Zero moments later.

Yeah, they should have just killed them off instead of shoving them down our throats again and again and again.

By the way, I know that was not what you meant, but I like to imagine that it was. ^^

Lol. Yea that's funny because there are so many other characters who could carry on as MK's front men. I mean let's ignore the fact that Liu Kang was the main protagonist, and was even portrayed as so in the movies. Also Raiden was put in that same spotlight as Earth realms protector. Those two sholuld be the one's who are leading the pack now, but guess what they ain't. Scorpion and Sub-Zero were side characters who became more because of FANS whether the fans now want to admit that or not.

I just don't get the hate on them nowadays. So what they are put in front of others. That don't mean they get better treatment apparenty. As of this writing Scorpion is Quan's b**ch and Sub-Zero is a cyborg. Yeah, they really got it good. People need to stop with the hate on those two. Every brand everywhere has a mascot or someone to represent the brand. Those two just so happen to be MK's, deal with it.

Yeah, well, Subbie is a cyborg now. Deal with it. ;)

Cyber Subs brain is exposed. Much of the X-ray animation shows more organics than cybernetics.

I don't know if you use the word rational all-too correctly. And from the perspective of Sektor for example, it is rational to be automated. It was rational for HItler to exterminate the jews. Cause -> Action -> Effect. That is rationality. Wether it is morally ok, that is another question. Of course, the process was irrational to Cyrax, since the process dulled their intuition.
Well, yes, the computer inside them is the one pulling the strings. It isn't exactly inventive, as it is not an intelligence.

The problem with MK and the souless/souled cyborgs is the following.

It is not the mechanization of the body that renders them invisible to Kahn's soul steal, it's the automation. The automation does not refer to the rebuilding of their bodies but to the programmed subservience.

Short: mechanical body aside, the computer part is what renders them soulless, without the original personality which is dormant deep down somewhere ala Robocop.

Notice how in the original and here the automated cyborgs are empty shells unless their free will is reactivated, WHICH is shown entirely in Cyborg-Sub-Zero's chapter. This is what happened to Cyrax in UMK4.
Once their overriding slaving protocols are out the brain can essentially regain it's body.

Both Jax and the cyberninjas are cyborgs, the extent and percentage of organics/machine are inconsequential if any measure of either is present. If they were robots, then they could have just made robots and retire the Lin Kuei human members to Tibet or somewhere, but since they are needed to be automated ..hence cyborgs.



Also notice how CSZ is shown to have a much more "opinionated" speech when he tells Kabal "as you will soon discover". Even as automated CSZ is probably more confortable with the new form than Smoke was in the original.

Jaded-Raven, how did you handle Jade getting her heart ripped out and made into a zombie slave of Quan Chi's?

First of all, I think she had the coolest death of all the heroes. True MK style.
Second, I see it as an opportunity for her to be part of the Brotherhood of the Shadows which is my favourite cult/organisation of the entire series. I have a feeling NRS will drop the ball on that though and just have her be resurrected along with the other heroes when Shinnok and Quan Chi have been defeated, but a man can dream.

I overall think Jade got a cool storyline treatment this time around, considering all the stuff that was rebooted. She was really cool in this game's plot. I didn't even think she would get her own chapter which was also quite a nice surprise when I found out. I'm overall satisfied with how she was presented.

I'm one of the few who liked the changes done to many of these characters. There are some things I think NRS did very wrong, like the whole Kitana/Mileena thing, Shang Tsung's weak death and how Quan Chi was pushed into the spotlight and taking over many of Shang's key plotlines, but to have almost all the heroes die was bold move made by NRS and I respect that. Their initial deaths were weak though, as in the fighting scene with Sindel VS the heroes being somewhat boring - it could have been ALOT more epic and I think it should have been as well - but the fact that they died is kinda cool, in my opinion.

To lead this back on-topic:
Sub-Zero turning into a cyborg was another really bold move by NRS, since he is one of the top favourite characters of MK. Fans hate changes and then it doesn't matter if they make sense or not. Many of the changes in this game don't make sense, but Sub-Zero turning into a cyborg did. I believe in karma and trying to change the future will have severe consequences. Though the end result might be for the better (Shao Kahn dying and won't be the one who win the Armageddon War), heavy sacrifices must be made. Raiden saved Smoke from his tragic destiny, but then made it worse for Sub-Zero, ultimately changing his very future - at least if you ask some of the fans on this forum who refuse to believe Subbie will ever be able to make the same achievements he did in the old timeline now that he is a cyborg, while I fully believe that he is indeed capable of doing so in his current state.

I hold the MK team for their word when they said "No one really dies in MK", so having a character die is not that big a deal to me. Mileena only became cooler and more interesting after her death, one of my favourite characters were introduced as a "dead" character from the start (that being Reiko) and he is quite awesome, and Noob Saibot is in my opinion ALOT cooler than when he was the original Sub-Zero (no pun intended). Death is not the end of a character, nor is becoming a cyborg, it opens new paths for that character to wander if only NRS keeps the creative juices flowing and make things happen!

If I would change anything about Cyborg Subbie, it would be making him a more unique moveset, but that's it, really. He is still fun to play as though. ^^

Hey yeah, taking risks is one thing, I can imagine fans might've been less angry about Cyber Sub-Zero and all the heroes deaths if they had been better executed.

Fair enough Jaded-Raven, I'll admit I've been wanting to see a Cyber Sub-Zero after imaging him when I first saw the cyborgs back when MK 3 come out.

I still have some issues with Story Mode in regards to Mileena being born just now and Rayden's amulet. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, he never had one (it's shown in all the flashbacks from MK A to MK1) in his outfits. Just a bad plot hole that's all it is.