I'm guessing that either Shinnok or Quan Chi have created those bodies for them through dark magic and the reason the newly dead still look like rotting zombies is because they haven't created proper bodies for them yet.

Well, Scorpion's MK1 bio did always use the word "reincarnated", which means brought fully to life in a new body.

Yeah, but why is it that now he can suddenly? I mean, Scorpion and Noob Saibot retain their full sense of will and memories and yet now Quan Chi is not able to resurrect souls that go to the Netherrealm, but he can now take souls that he wants to the Netherrealm and brainwash them (something he was never shown to have had in the past games), take souls even though that's Shang Tsung's iconic feature and do whatever the fuck he wants because NRS is too busy to bother caring about whether or not Quan Chi's abilities are consistent in the past, he's such a Villain Sue now it makes me sick. In fact, the whole zombie scene just shows how little NRS cares about their characters, how expendable they are for the sake of shock value and how much they do not give a fuck about continuity. It is probably the lowest point in story mode for me.

Tweets like this to John Vogel really make me sting:
"It was indeed fantastic. The whole game was just superb, especially the story mode."

That just makes me burn.... ...but I'm getting off topic here.

I generally think Quan Chi's role in this game was too large and too up front. He was given too much limelight.

Way I see it is that Scorpion and Noob were fully altered, transformed into new beings. There was an actual change going on there. Mileena's soul is 'reborn in the Netherealm' after her death at Kitana's hand, but Shinnok doesn't mess with her, just wrings her allegiance out of her and sends her merrily back on her way. The zombie form may be the natural look for the dead purposefully given their old essence back in the Nethrealm, or an effect of whatever dark magics he's using to exert direct control over them. Or both. *Shrug*

Quan Chi had his cake and ate Shang's too. :( But we know that already.

Uh, sadly that's true. I'm sorry, it's not that I favor trilogy characters, but Shang Tsung as a character has so much more potential to me than Quan Chi. Quan Chi was overdone. I mean really overdone, to the point that it hurts. Shang was their first main bad guy and look what they did to him.

@ ProudNintendoFan

I can see why comments like that would burn you. They burn me too.

Also, I didn't comment because it was on a thread about positives of storyline, and someone said sub-zero's story was a good part. That's what burns me. The fact people think this cyber subz stuff and him dying is actually better than his old story??? Sub-Zero through hell and high water never died in the old story, ever, even when all of the other heroes did. Call it luck, call it what you want, he never died. He was one of the few, if not only to ever do this. It's one of the things I liked about him too. He watched family and friends all around him either die or turn evil, and yet he survived. In this storyline he gets taken, turned cyber, and then dies by an uppercut. Now you tell me which story is better.

Also on the fact that Scorpion and Noob are now new beings. This also leads me to the point that Bi han really doesn't exist anymore. Noob Saibot is Bi Han, but not Bi han at the same time. He's a total new creation of Quan Chi. That's why when people go all spiderman and think Noob Saibot and Bi han can seperate, it pisses me off. They are the same person. Noob is just a much more evil version of Bi Han. They can't be seperated.

The only reason they think this is because of Armageddon's endings, which have proved time and again to be completely untrue. Unless it's in reference to a few characters like Rain.

Anyway, I'm still skeptical that these are the souls Quan Chi has possession of. I mean he's a liar and a bastard. The souls could be elsewhere and Quan didn't want Raiden to know of it. That could just be their re-animated corpses he's using. (That I'm discussing the characters all being zombies in the first place kind of pisses me off, WTF is this night of the living dead?)

I can't remember if it was on this thread, or in another thread entirely, but someone had said that the reason why Shang Tsung and Sindel were NOT among those in the Netherrealm when Raiden fought those other zombie warriors was because Shao Kahn had possession of their souls. Now that Kahn is gone for good, wouldn't you think those souls he had would go to Quan Chi???

Another thing to point out: Cyber Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot are now on the same side. Think about it, both of them were resurrected by Quan Chi, just as Scorpion was. But Scorpion was able to shake off Quan Chi's influence and eventually kicked his ass. If Scorpion could do it, why not Cyber Sub-Zero or Noob Saibot to their own ends???

No, Sindel was shown to be among them... ...for some reason and yet Motaro apparently got the shaft.

Quan doesn't control Noob Saibot's mind. Noob is just like Scorpion, it's just that he willingly CHOOSES to be Quan's right-hand-man because it benefits him.

At his side is the best place to be if you want to later stab Quan in the back and rule the Netherealm yourself for example, which we've already seen both in Deception and in his arcade ending in this game is Noob's ultimate goal.

There are many types of a zombie (these are philosophical ones):

A neurological zombie that has a human brain and is generally physiologically indistinguishable from a human.

A soulless zombie that lacks a "soul."

A behavioral zombie that is behaviorally indistinguishable from a human. (Wikipedia)

That's what I'm saying Razor, despite how it looks like that Scorpion and Noob appear to be "servants" of Quan Chi, they are able to free themselves from Quan. So, the same could be said for in that scene where Raiden is fighting against the warriors Quan Chi resurrected (Kung Lao, Cyber Sub-Zero, Jade, etc.), I would imagine they too would be able to make their own decisions and break free from Quan Chi.

We all know that at the end of MK9 it shows Raiden, Johnny Cage, Sonya, and Liu Kang's body transporting elsewhere. You know damn well Raiden is going to resurrect Liu Kang because he's done it before. Maybe not early on, but when Cage and Sonya are defeated by Shinnok and Quan Chi's forces, Raiden is going to be desperate and resurrect Liu Kang just so he has somebody strong enough to take on Shinnok.

Cyber Sub-Zero will side back with the good guys too once he shakes off the influence from Quan Chi, no doubt about it. If Scorpion, who was neutral throughout could go against Quan, then Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) who was historically a good guy, will at the very least turn on Quan Chi like Scorpion and take him down.

It's obvious they don't have that much control though. Whatever spell, or whatever the hell you want to call it that he has on them, they don't have that power. They are all just a bunch of punk b***hes at this point, and it's almost tiring for me to even argue it. Every one of them are exactly the same now.Like they've all been ripped of individuality cuz they're all just another dead fighter.

I feel as though each and everyone of these characters, not just sub-zero anymore, is just f***ed. It's going to look stupid as hell if they mass ressurect them, and NRS has a bad track record of creating new characters, and if we expect the characters from MK4-MKA to pick up the slack of the trilogy characters in general, not just in story mode then we are hugely f***ed. I'm through with arguing this, they shouldn't have killed them all. Plain and simple. It was a dumb idea and the fact that one's like Noob and Scorpion have freedom and are under Quan Chi, yet these guys don't it just makes you question why not?

Then the fact that we don't even know how the hell Quan Chi has their souls, or if it's even their souls he actually has. We don't know if their zombies, we don't know what the hell is going on period, and you know why because it sucked. I'm sorry, it did. Sorry to throw a tantrum here, but when you look at half of the good guys and their dead and that motherf**ker Scorpion you know is going to be in the next game no matter what, it pisses you off. He deserves it no more than any of the others, and the idiot of a character they made Raiden who used to be one of my favorites. God, I have no hope for them on the story.

They should have just let Armageddon happen, because I'm thoroughly convinced at this point that it could have turned out better than this sh*t they have thrown at us. Whoever was in the board room that morning and said hey let's kill everyone in one scene, yea that will be awesome. Someone should have stood up right then and there and said your dumba** is fired get out of here. Like I said sorry guys to get so irate at this, it's just the more I think of who we have to replace the heroes the less hope I have. It's not that those characters don't have potential they do, but not near as much as the trilogy characters who are mostly all now pushing up daisies, and my favorite character ever is a cyborg. Why, just why did it have to suck this bad?

The church massacre was rather questionable but I don't think we will run out of good characters any time soon. I have faith in NeRdS' skills to create a few new decent characters as well - seeing how well they established characters like Noob Saibot, Smoke, Stryker, Kenshi and many others in this game. Skarlet and Cyber Sub-Zero as (new) characters were definitely decent. The next Mortal Kombat game could put more emphasis on characters like Reptile and Kano now, to make them more appealing again. A list of potential characters for MK10 is below.
*******************************************************************************
Liu Kang
Raiden
Scorpion
Shinnok
Argus
Reptile
Jarek
Smoke monster
Noob hero
Kano
Sub-Zero somehow
Skarlet
Kenshi
Havik
Baraka
Cyrax
Cage
Sonya
Mileena
Daegon
Jade mystery femme
Drathon Goro
Fujin
Baraka
Moloch
Quan Chi
Nightwolf Ruutuu power
Reiko
Jerrod
Bo' Rai Cho
Great Kung Lao
2-5 new characters investment for future
4-12 downloadable characters some from MK9
*******************************************************************************Minimum: 37
Maximum: 48
*******************************************************************************
Note: Baraka and the likes might become playable from NPC only via DLC and some of the souls from Shang Tsung have new commissions. Shao Kahn could also become playable via DLC for fun (no story involvement).
[click to enlarge]

They won't though. The past has proved this. People were saying the exact same things before Mk9 came out. I said maybe Reptile will get a more prominent role this time instead of just a lackey, but guess what still a lackey.

They focused so much on changing the more popular characters that they ignored the ones who needed it, which is where I think they epically failed. Sub-Zero was just example of character who didn't need touched they did it anyway though. Kitana and Mileena's stories didn't need touched, they did it anyway though. Reptile and Baraka, and even Kano for that matter were characters who needed more. Hell Smoke is an example of this too, and to me he still came off as Sub-Zero's sidekick in this game, which should have not been. They don't know how to use side characters. I wanted Jade to be more in this game as well since she's my second favorite, but they gave her some of the crappiest gameplay and her story was Okay, but why not dig deeper with her. Is she just there to protect and befriend Kitana, is that all her story amounts to.

The point I'm making is people have said with each MK game that maybe this character will get more time, or maybe it's so-and-so's time to shine now. It's not apparently though, because they keep doing the same things with some characters that desperately need change, while ruining characters who don't.

Now, everyone of those characters are dead as hell, and it's going to look like a cheap copout if they ressurect them. That's why I question whether they should ressurect them, and that's why I don't have very much hope. The characters from MK4-MKA were good, but they weren't that good. Skarlet was good, and cyber subz would have been good had they went about the thing differently. God, I hate ranting, but I'm sorry I've just about lost hope in the story. I still feel that the cyber subz thing was not done to enhance anything. Look at it, just look at it. He becomes cyber, and dies a chapter or two later. So, why do it in the first place? What did it change? Absolutely nothing, just another man becoming a cyborg who doesn't like it, but has to accept it. Is that Smoke I'm talking about, Oh hell no that's Sub-Zero this time. What a huge change. They took the only thing that made Smoke half way interesting, and put it on a character with an already established story who really needed nothing. Great writing guys, great writing. I applaud the originalism of it.

Just make sure Sub-Zero is in the next game as playable and leave his a** dead storywise. That way they can't f**k him up any more than they already have. The rest of them too for that matter, just leave em dead. Now they can take their turns of f**king up the rest of the cast.lol. You thought Sonya and Johnny surviving was good, well just wait. They're just postponing their screw ups a little longer.

What will you do if Subbie keeps being a cyborg for the rest of the series, and if that form is the only playable one?

That isn't going to happen, even if they keep CSZ for the duration of the series, there will be a human Sub-Zero in some form or another, it's not even a question.

You don't know that, but either way, I would still like to know Scar's answer to it. The question wasn't even addressed to you, Essy, though your input has been noted.

it's a public forum, the question doesn't have to be directed at me for me to respond. It's not like I said Scar cannot respond still...so.....yeah.

And if you honestly think NRS is never going to have a Human Sub-Zero playable again, you're either unfamiliar with the series or just would prefer to be a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.

Agreed with this completely. You know there will always be a human Sub, and I would like to think it will be Kuai Liang just as a non-story character.

Like I said, just keep him dead. I'm actually fine with that at this point. I figure if he's dead they can't mess him up anymore. I'd rather remember his old story than them tarnish him anymore than he already is.

Like I say though Jaded I know you think i'm just thinking about subz but I'm not anymore. I feel that a lot of those characters just got royally f**ked in the story. Just keep them dead if they are going this route. That's right I think the story was so bad, that I just hope they stay dead. That's how horrible it was to me. I don't want these characters that I grew up with getting tarnished like this.

The only one out of them that should come back to life is Jade, just so whoever is in her ending makes her f**k Raiden up for being a complete idiot.

So, yea just keep them dead at this point. Unless they can find a way to undo this story completely and Boon comes out himself and says this story is not connected to the old one at all. Then yeah just leave them dead. You can't undo Cyber Subz. Unless they say that it wasn't Kuai Liang that got automated, then yea I have no hope for redeeming Sub-Zero either. Never should have happened in my opinion.

Also just make Scorpion the main hero somehow.lol. WE ALL should know it's coming in MK10 anyway with Quan Chi being the main villain. That way Boon's love for Scorps can finally be out in the open.

Also another dumb decision I can already see happening is Scorpion and Noob Saibot teaming up. I could even see Bi-Han being Sub-Zero again and having Scorpion and Elder Subz team up, which honestly makes no sense from a real life perspective. It'll go like this though.

Scorpion: You murdered me in cold blood and subsequently made me a slave to Quan Chi for a while, but you know what, I think I can get over it.

Bi Han: Yeah, you burned me alive, and I was raised to hate your clan. You know what though, you made me Quan's slave for a while too, we totally have that in common bro. Let's team up.

Scorpion: Yeah, Fire and Ice son!

I can see it now.

There's no need to be all defensive, I was just not interested in your opinion, just Scar's, as he seems to have strong feelings towards this whole subject and I wish to understand him a bit more. So there's no reason for you to be like this.



Personally, I don't want Bi-Han to return as his former Subbie self. I like him as Noob too much. However, him and Scorpion teaming up sounds like a cool idea, though I don't think Scorpion would be interested in such.

As for Kuai Liang, I would want him to return playable as Cyborg Subbie, however, a playable non-canon human form of Subbie would be most welcome as well. I just think there's too much story potential for Cyborg Subbie, though I think I'm the only one here who thinks like that. XD

NRS should have done the same for Smoke. Have a playable canon form, e.g. his human one, and then have his other form, the cyborg one, as a non-canon playable character.

LOL that's being defensive? Whatever J-R.

I didn't insult you or anything. You posted in a public forum,I stated as such. if you think that's getting defensive, oh well. It's not like your replies to me were friendly.

I won't post at you again, I didn't realize it was going to be that big of a problem.

Where do you see potential for Cyber Subz Jaded? I'm saying that in a non a-holeish way too. Seriously, where? Also, don't say anything regarding his old story cuz it ain't going to happen. Having him be grandmaster is over and done with, and it makes no sense for him to beat Sektor, because no matter what Sektor beats him at life. He's one of the sole reasons that Subz is a cyborg, and if he beats Sektor as a cyborg it just proves Sektor was right all along, and that making Subz a cyborg made him better. So that's out the door. Sektor always wins, whether or not Sub-Zero beats him physically or not. Sektor always wins.

Also don't bring anything from Deception up, it was mostly him finding his heritage and learning his brother was Noob and what happened to Smoke. He already knows Noob is his brother this time around, and nothing happened to Smoke. Also, he can't wear the armor because he's a cyborg. It just wouldn't make sense.

So now that DA and Deception are out the door, tell me what your idea is. Also refrain from it being anything about him being teamed with Noob this time around instead of Smoke, because that's Smoke's story. Which I've already adressed that anyways. They simply took Smoke's story and gave it to Subz and anybody I've seen who is a fan of Cyber Subz wants this to happen. That just makes him a slave, which often seems to be the case with the third cyborg. They end up the slave.

So, tell me your original ideas for Cyber Subz, a completely original one too that has so much more potential than human subz. Remember nothing from the old timeline either.

Also while your at it tell me how they are going to bring the other heroes back, without it looking cheap as hell, or like the writing team are backtracking on themselves because they realize their ideas were sh** after all.

You ask me where I see potential, then trying to restrict my answer by telling me what I shouldn't say. Heh, no, I'm not going to dance like that.



*sigh*

Kuai Liang is preferred, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to BI Han either, I still wonder if Bi Han will be split in two (Noob Saibot and Sub-Zero).

At this point, I feel that way about several characters, as long as they're playable, I don't really care that much.

lol @ Boon's love for Scorpion being out in the open. I'm expecting that though, I wouldn't be too opposed to seeing Scorpion fighting alongside Johnny, Sonya, and Kai, he's one of the series icons after all and I guess finally getting him out of his stagnation is reason enough to support that.

I don't know what to think of MK10, I want to reserve judgment until I see what they do however.

LOL that little snip of dialogue is priceless. I'm hoping that doesn't happen, let Noob team up with Havik and let Scorpion do his own thing, if anything, it would make sense if Scorpion felt guilty about what happen to Kuai Liang and tried to help him.

Sorry double post here.

You know the story first started to go down the drain in deception. While I think it was cool that Sub-Zero found his armor and heritage and learned of Noob, that was all in the endings where we learned that.

You know the common thing I find with the story being bad though. Since deception, because they didn't do it in DA, they have tried to tell one large coherent story.

Deception had Konquest

Armageddon had a different version of Konquest

MKvsDC had story chapters with one long story

MK9 did the same with story chapters and one long story.

Another common thing is they try to make the story revolve too much around one character in these stories. In Deception it was Shujinko, in Armageddon it was Taven, in MKvsDC is was Raiden, and in MK9 it was Raiden.

My conclusion. You can't do this. There's simply too many characters to try to fit them into one coherent story like this. They need individual stories. So basically they need to revamp how they tell the story, because since Deception the story has been getting consistently worse, and the reason why is because they try to fit all of these characters into one story, and with as many characters as they have that just won't work.

Sorry, that was just something I needed off of my chest. Not really pertaining to my other posts, just one opinion I have on why they can't seem to get the story right anymore.