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Human-Smoke-4-ever
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Why couldn't this ending have happened?

03/11/2011 02:26 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Poto2222 Wrote:
He said also that the team is not certain about his inclusion in future MK games.


I suppose that's good news, but how would it even work if they chose not to bring the cyborg version back?

Wouldn't they have to call story mode non-canon? It's not like he got changed back at the end.


My guess is they're going to go in the direction of Human Smoke's original in-canon UMK3 ending where he was able to escape his cybernetic body and regain his Human form. That's my guess atleast.
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RazorsEdge701
03/11/2011 02:27 PM (UTC)
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KiShiDo Wrote:
The story-mode looks big and with a lot of interaction... Back then in MK1-MK3 we had norhing besides endings... And people scream wow awesome story telling


Having read the script, I can say those bios and endings were fucking plotted out better.
I was actually enjoying the writing in the leaked script at first, it started out with some really confusing choices but the dialogue and portrayals were strong. But once it gets to the MK2 and 3 parts, suddenly it reads incredibly rushed, sloppy, and produces far inferior versions of the characters than what they used to be and I'm not even referring Sub-Zero there, I'm talking about almost everyone.
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
I actually think Mileena and Sindel may have gotten it the worst once you get past the cyberninja reshuffling.

Most of the cast basically got the things that used to make them important or cool completely erased. The only characters who are deeper or more interesting in the new universe are Cage, Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke, and Stryker. And in Smoke's case, that comes entirely from his bio and arcade ending giving him a real name and explaining where his powers come from, he's STILL the same nearly irrelevant background character he always was in the actual story mode.

4 and a half out of 30 is NOT a positive outcome.
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KiShiDo
03/11/2011 02:33 PM (UTC)
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And how many story we had in MK 1 - 3 in game?

Seriously for a fighting game this is a big ass storyline and we haven't seen him in action. And Smoke is gettin more spotlight that most of the others.

I like the changes as well. Only think I dislike is, tha tno evil guy chapter is there.

And I really hope Sub, with free will, will stay Cyborg in the next game or NRS will once again fuck up a storyline
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RazorsEdge701
03/11/2011 02:34 PM (UTC)
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Your argument is inherently flawed. "It has a storymode, that automatically makes the story better" isn't based in reality at all.

Story modes are not automatically, magically good just by existing, it has to ACTUALLY BE WELL WRITTEN AND HAVE A GOOD PLOT TO BE GOOD.
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Shadaloo
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MK Khronology: 58.49% complete...
03/11/2011 02:39 PM (UTC)
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Haven't read anything else in this thread but the first post, and won't, but I'll just say....


Poto2222 Wrote:

He said also that the team is not certain about his inclusion in future MK games.


Oh, good. A pointless change they're probably not going to stick by. Thought as much.

Predictable/10.

Can't wait to see who'll be under the hood next time.

:/

Getting back out of thread now.
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Jaded-Raven
03/11/2011 02:40 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Your argument is inherently flawed. "It has a storymode, that automatically makes the story better" isn't based in reality at all.

Story modes are not automatically, magically good just by existing, it has to ACTUALLY BE WELL WRITTEN AND HAVE A GOOD PLOT TO BE GOOD.


Well, in my opinion, it does have a good plot and it is well-written. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't. That's just your opinion. I think the plot in itself is creative and different in a good way, because it left us all surprised and some even in shock. That effect right there means the plot was good and well-written.

You can argue against it all you want though, and I'm sure you will, but it will all just be your own opinion, so please don't try and make it a fact.
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Remonster
03/11/2011 02:40 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
KiShiDo Wrote:
The story-mode looks big and with a lot of interaction... Back then in MK1-MK3 we had norhing besides endings... And people scream wow awesome story telling


Having read the script, I can say those bios and endings were fucking plotted out better.

I was actually enjoying the writing in the leaked script at first, it started out with some really confusing choices but the dialogue and portrayals were strong. But once it gets to the MK2 and 3 parts, suddenly it reads incredibly rushed, sloppy, and produces far inferior versions of the characters than what they used to be and I'm not even referring Sub-Zero there, I'm talking about almost everyone.

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)

I actually think Mileena and Sindel may have gotten it the worst once you get past the cyberninja reshuffling.

Most of the cast basically got the things that used to make them important or cool completely erased. The only characters who are deeper or more interesting in the new universe are Cage, Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke, and Stryker. And in Smoke's case, that comes entirely from his bio and arcade ending giving him a real name and explaining where his powers come from, he's STILL the same nearly irrelevant background character he always was in the actual story mode.

4 and a half out of 30 is NOT a positive outcome.



Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
Add Reptile to the list of shafted characters. He shows up a couple times, gets his ass kicked then does nothing for the rest of the story.

I Like where it went with Kabal, having him partners with Stryker and giving him more background with the Black Dragon. But again, once his chapter is over, it pretty much just forgets about him. That's pretty much my biggest complain with the script, is that alot of characters just get forgotten once their chapter is over. But, it is just the script, and it contains no description of the actual cutscenes, or what is going on between the dialogue. I'm going to wait until the finished product to fully judge it.
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Chrome
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03/11/2011 02:41 PM (UTC)
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Define well written and good plot.



What we got in the leak is more or less on par with what we received previously.

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KiShiDo
03/11/2011 02:42 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Your argument is inherently flawed. "It has a storymode, that automatically makes the story better" isn't based in reality at all.

Story modes are not automatically, magically good just by existing, it has to ACTUALLY BE WELL WRITTEN AND HAVE A GOOD PLOT TO BE GOOD.


Ok i try it different cuz my english isn't the best.

How can you praise a story in the past as they were no story in game after all? We had an opening and some endings and that was it.

And seriously I read all dialogues and I really like it. Only sad thing is, that not all characters are getting the spotlight. But I knew there won't be a chapter for each character.

So I dunno how you can say... Hey back then there was an awesome story and now it is weak. What was awesome? The intro text in the booklet + 90 % non canon endings?

You dislike Smoke being a side character in story... Hell I'm glad that he is even there. Back then he had no story besides beconming a cyborg. Now he has interacted with some people.

You dislike Cyber Sub. I think it is great after thinking logical that it is still the same character with his own mind a freezing abilities.
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RazorsEdge701
03/11/2011 02:42 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
because it left us all surprised and some even in shock. That effect right there means the plot was good and well-written.


It absolutely does not. That would mean horror movies are examples of great storytelling.

It's like nobody here but me's ever read an actual book.
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KiShiDo
03/11/2011 02:45 PM (UTC)
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What have you expected? A RPG storyline or a book ? It is still a fraking fighting game and we should be happy that we at least have a story mode and not just an arcade mode with endings where most aren't canon.

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RazorsEdge701
03/11/2011 02:46 PM (UTC)
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KiShiDo Wrote:
So I dunno how you can say... Hey back then there was an awesome story and now it is weak. What was awesome? The intro text in the booklet + 90 % non canon endings?


Do I have to examine every single character individually, comparing what they did in the old timeline to what they do in the new timeline, and show you how the new timeline versions are each more shallow and given less to do than they originally were?

Is that what I have to do, thirty individual character analyses?
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Jaded-Raven
03/11/2011 02:47 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
because it left us all surprised and some even in shock. That effect right there means the plot was good and well-written.


It absolutely does not. That would mean horror movies are examples of great storytelling.

It's like nobody here but me's ever read an actual book.


There it is... Right there. You try and undermine everyone else's opinion and wants to make everyone think that your opinion is the only one that is right. I used to respect you, Razor, because of your great knowledge of Mortal Kombat and your interest in it's lore, but now you seem to slowly turn into what Xiahoudun is... It really saddens me to see that.

I get it, you don't like the plot in this new MK, and that is totally fine... but don't become an asshole because of it.
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KiShiDo
03/11/2011 02:49 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
KiShiDo Wrote:
So I dunno how you can say... Hey back then there was an awesome story and now it is weak. What was awesome? The intro text in the booklet + 90 % non canon endings?


Do I have to examine every single character individually, comparing what they did in the old timeline to what they do in the new timeline, and show you how the new timeline versions are each more shallow and given less to do than they originally were?

Is that what I have to do, thirty individual character analyses?


OK tell me where IN GAME, while I was playing, there was some interaction? I never ever saw a story mode back then? How do you know that all interactions between the characters are seen in the story mode.

Back then we had no clue till Midway said something about the storyline and what is canon and what happened.

What do you expected. 30 chapters for a fighting game?
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RazorsEdge701
03/11/2011 02:51 PM (UTC)
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KiShiDo Wrote:
What have you expected? A RPG storyline or a book ? It is still a fraking fighting game


It's only idiots who never bothered to read any of it who now go "It's just a fighting game, fighting games don't have stories blah blah blah lowered standards."

MK is not Street Fighter, it is not Tekken, it DID have a plot and characters that could have been good enough to take place in a an RPG like Final Fantasy instead of in a fighting game played only by meatheads who don't read or care.

And the script for MK9 dumbed 26 out of 30 of them down.
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Jaded-Raven
03/11/2011 02:52 PM (UTC)
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Yes, ignore my post instead of taking my words into consideration...
I guess it's already too late for you then. Oh well, life goes on.
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KiShiDo
03/11/2011 02:55 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
KiShiDo Wrote:
What have you expected? A RPG storyline or a book ? It is still a fraking fighting game


It's only idiots who never bothered to read any of it who now go "It's just a fighting game, fighting games don't have stories blah blah blah lowered standards."

MK is not Street Fighter, it is not Tekken, it DID have a plot and characters that could have been good enough to take place in a an RPG like Final Fantasy instead of in a fighting game played only by meatheads who don't read or care.

And the script for MK9 dumbed 26 out of 30 of them down.


You avoided my question... back then we had no story mode and we had no clue what happened acutally in the game until Midway told us. So tell me where you get the feeling that back then the story was better. From what

And you cry that not all characters can get the spotlight in the storymode even if it is a big ass one for fighting game standard. And don't tell me it doesn't matter, cuz it does matter. A racing game is a racing game... NFS Shift has a story... Should I cry that it sucks and isn't well told like Metal Gear Solid or whatever.

You can be glad that we get that many chapters and at least interaction between the characters IN GAME besides endings and an booklet intro.

But yeah back the the story was told great... But it seems the best would be we shouldn't have a story mdo and just the old school ladder like back then with some endings, where we have no clue what is canon and what is not.

Would be that good in your eyes. Cuz it was exactly that way in the past
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RazorsEdge701
03/11/2011 02:57 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
but now you seem to slowly turn into what Xiahoudun is... It really saddens me to see that.


Ask yourself why it's been the two MKO posters on the board who know the most about how to write, who are the angriest at what the franchise has turned into over the past few years.
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yautjared
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Skarlet : Kunoichi warrior, Kodachi master, Kunai expert.

03/11/2011 02:58 PM (UTC)
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I think , if comparing with old material coming from MK1, MK2 and MK3, really there is no such "deep and ultra developed" history on all of these 3 games together. This time, NRS tried to put something that sound as a screenplay. NRS guys are not "Hollywood writers" , so, we know that creating an awesome story is not and never was MK team's speciality.

I am not saying to us, all of sudden, come and say : "oh, NRS , you did a hell of job, let's praise all good work you did giving us a story inside this game ...." No, we all know the history could have being tweeked and refined more, anyway, since NRS and Ed approve all finished material, and this is the history presented to us : accept it or hate it, will not change nothing regarding what you will find in the final version. I think the story continuity has chance to improve in the game sequel, future MK 2.
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Jaded-Raven
03/11/2011 02:59 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
but now you seem to slowly turn into what Xiahoudun is... It really saddens me to see that.


Ask yourself why it's been the two MKO posters on the board who know the most about how to write, who are the angriest at what the franchise has turned into over the past few years.


So that means your opinions are more important than the rest of us?
Be angry all you want and see how that helps you out.
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KiShiDo
03/11/2011 03:01 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
but now you seem to slowly turn into what Xiahoudun is... It really saddens me to see that.


Ask yourself why it's been the two MKO posters on the board who know the most about how to write, who are the angriest at what the franchise has turned into over the past few years.


Than make a movie or write a book about a FIGHTING GAME.

Seriously don't make us dumb. I read books but I don't expect the storyline of a fraking game being a master work.

And you still hasn't anwered my question.

Back then

MK1
We had characters with different endings and a intro

No one knew what is canon or what not

Midway told us. WOW great story telling

MK2

The same

MK 3

The same

So where was the story better written or actually better IN GAME. Not talking about the story which was told by MIDWAY. But IN GAME. Where was the story better.

You whine about not many characters got spotlight. Yeah back then no one has gotten spotlight besides the one canon ending.

And Smoke gets more interaction than he ever had. What do you expected. He will be introduced as HUMAn and be the new champion of Mortal Kombat? He had some interaction and that is nice compared to his old story
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RazorsEdge701
03/11/2011 03:04 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
So that means your opinions are more important than the rest of us?


Opinions are not equal in value.

Knowledge of and experience with a subject are what matter most when discussing that subject.

For instance, if a lawyer were to discuss the law with someone who doesn't know shit about the law, who's opinion matters more? The lawyer's of course. If a doctor were to discuss the best way to operate on a kidney with a patient, who's more likely to be right, the fucking doctor or the guy who doesn't know shit about fuck?

Having studied literature, I therefore know more about writing than someone who's just going "Well I like it 'cause it was shocking and herp de derp de doo." And XD, having ACTUALLY written things, knows even more than I do about what makes a script better or the right way to plot out a scene or what have you.
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KiShiDo
03/11/2011 03:07 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
So that means your opinions are more important than the rest of us?


Opinions are not equal in value.

Knowledge of and experience with a subject are what matter most when discussing that subject.

For instance, if a lawyer were to discuss the law with someone who doesn't know shit about the law, who's opinion matters more? The lawyer's of course. If a doctor were to discuss the best way to operate on a kidney with a patient, who's more likely to be right, the fucking doctor or the guy who doesn't know shit about fuck?

Having studied literature, I therefore know more about writing than someone who's just going "Well I like it 'cause it was shocking and herp de derp de doo."


OK cuz you are smart or assume you are... you should know that back then story wasn't any better told than this one... Well to admit it wasn't told after all IN GAME.

And just because you don't like that NRS aren't some movie or book writers or you don't like the changes, you can't take away OUR OPINION and say everything is shit because I'm a better writer.
AND YOU STILL AOVID MY QUESTION... Where as the story better told back then IN GAME
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Chrome
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03/11/2011 03:09 PM (UTC)
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Having studied literature does not warrant knowledge of literature.


And you still haven't answered his, or my question for that matter.



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FROST4584
03/11/2011 03:16 PM (UTC)
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KiShiDo Wrote:
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
but now you seem to slowly turn into what Xiahoudun is... It really saddens me to see that.


Ask yourself why it's been the two MKO posters on the board who know the most about how to write, who are the angriest at what the franchise has turned into over the past few years.


Than make a movie or write a book about a FIGHTING GAME.

Seriously don't make us dumb. I read books but I don't expect the storyline of a fraking game being a master work.

And you still hasn't anwered my question.

Back then

MK1
We had characters with different endings and a intro

No one knew what is canon or what not

Midway told us. WOW great story telling

MK2

The same

MK 3

The same

So where was the story better written or actually better IN GAME. Not talking about the story which was told by MIDWAY. But IN GAME. Where was the story better.

You whine about not many characters got spotlight. Yeah back then no one has gotten spotlight besides the one canon ending.

And Smoke gets more interaction than he ever had. What do you expected. He will be introduced as HUMAn and be the new champion of Mortal Kombat? He had some interaction and that is nice compared to his old story


MK1-MK4, plots did its job at telling who a character was and what was their goal. What if endings were designed to do two things.

1. Give the player the satisfaction of "their" character winning the game.

2. Give the player a hint of what is to come in the next installment,including sub plots.

The premise of the each upcoming MK has been a mixture of endings. Sometimes full endings, part endings, or none of the ending come true.

That was part of the excitement toward the next game. What would happen next.

“Midway told us. WOW great story telling”

How is that any different from playing storyline mode in MK2011, which is a pre determined outcome , from the writers?
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