No, no, Shang is still canonically from Earthrealm. That's never been directly contradicted. The only thing that may have been retconned is whether or not the gods cursed him with rapid-aging, because it hasn't even been mentioned since MK1 and later games established that Shang did not automatically gain the power to steal souls, it was taught to him by Shao Kahn. Perhaps those two stories aren't mutually exclusive, though. It would make sense if betraying his realm by siding with Kahn and learning black magic and soul stealing from him is the reason the gods punished him and now he needs the souls to stay alive and healthy.

We also now know from Armageddon that he sold his soul to Kahn as a show of loyalty and he can't die as long as Kahn lives and will automatically die if Kahn dies. This could be the explanation for how he became an official citizen of Outworld, able to fight for them in Mortal Kombat, unlike Bo' Rai Cho, who could only fight for his birth world. Because the ruler of Outworld owns his soul, this is why he's considered an Outworlder in the eyes of the gods.

The Soul Pledge is a good way out of the wall writing Shang Tsung as being from Earthrealm pushes them against, but what actual canon material suggests that Tsung is from Earthrealm? I can't remember it being mentioned in the games once. It just seems to be something that appeared written once, and was never followed up on.

Now, if the Gods cursing Shang Tsung is not canon, then how can the rest of the bio be given strength? I think it can only be considered a possible origin for Shang Tsung. And given how influencial he is in the Mortal Kombat tournament, I think his origins should be purely based in Outworld.

Nothing else about his story would have to change. You still have an almost tragic vampire figure, sucking souls to stay alive. There are still the parallels with Liu Kang. It just makes more sense in regard to what they wrote for him later.

Hey there XiahouDun84. It's been a long while, and while I haven't been posting much these days, I still come here. I've read your analysis on Quan Chi as well as the analysis on the movies, and I have to say it's very interesting and thought-provoking as always. Let me give me two cents.

About Quan Chi: I think in some ways, especially the way you described him, he has some parallels with the Joker, especially the Dark Knight version. He's a very nihilistic manipulator that wants to cause pain and suffering. You suggested the possibility that Quan Chi might consider Sub-Zero to be a threat to him. What if its Sub-Zero's strength, power, and ability to constantly endure through life's hardships that could make him such a threat?

He seems to have the aspects of a true shinobi (even though I don't like to count the Lin Kuei as such) by enduring and persevering through his hardships, and we see that he has become more and more powerful throughout his story, almost having god-like power. In Sareena's MK: Armageddon ending, she seems to have absorbed Sub-Zero's powers and used them to deep freeze Quan Chi. What if that's actually a more ideal way of defeating him as opposing to killing him? Maybe I'm just tossing up some silly ideas, but maybe you might agree with at least a bit of what I'm saying here.

I'm sure that he does view others as having no real value, hence his nihilism. One thing that I noticed you neglected to mention is that Quan Chi's MK: Armageddon ending implies that he is the true source of disruption in the realms. Granted, he is a free-roaming sorcerer who can travel through the realms undetected by the gods (if I remember correctly). I'm sure there is more than just that in terms of him being the true source of disruption in the realms. Although, I still have to say that the bit in his ending of him being turned into a Kamidogu and being sent back in time is really silly, but that's beside the point.

One thing that bugs me a bit is that Quan Chi doesn't seem to use Shinnok's Amulet in terms of enhancing his own power. He takes the amulet from the older Sub-Zero, makes duplicates to trick Shinnok, Sub-Zero and Raiden, but yet he still didn't seem to learn the full extent of the amulet's powers.

A thought had come to mind about Noob Saibot. What if Noob Saibot's nearly all-black appearance is representative of the darkness that Quan Chi represents?

I still feel that Quan Chi's bio is one of the bios that should have been completed and released. What exactly happened to him and how he regained Shinnok's Amulet should be things covered in the bio. Unfortunately, that just isn't the case.

Considering how his character is and how he looks, he should give off a sort of vibe that creeps others out. I especially think about how Adoni Maropis portrayed him in MK: Conquest, particularly the episode in which they had an underground tournament sort of thing in which the loser is taken over by a spirit from the Netherrealm and becomes one of the undead. Sick things like that should probably have been shown by him in the storyline of the games.

You referred to Quan Chi as being "anti-life" which is very interesting. I think that someone like him would be very interested in obtaining something like the Anti-Life Equation simply for the sake of making everyone else suffer in their lack of free will. We see that the older Sub-Zero became a mindless slave when he became Noob Saibot, so I don't think it would be out of the realm of believability for Quan Chi's character.

I think that given the implications that Quan Chi is probably as old as the Netherrealm itself, it does make me think a bit of Mumm-Ra from Thundercats, a purely evil force who eternally exists. He's best off not having much of a real backstory anyway. Perhaps like the Dark Knight's version of the Joker, Quan Chi's origins should perhaps have had a greater sense of ambiguity, but then again, there is already a sense of mystery to his character.

You talked about Quan Chi's psychological tactics when you talked about his relationship with Sareena. That's one thing I like about his character, and I think that future villains should have that aspect, namely future main villains. I don't think it's really all that debatable, because you have an example of it in Sareena's MK: Armageddon bio.

Also, you talked about Quan Chi's relationship with Tanya. What if Tanya's motivation behind her betraying her realm is out of a sense of apathy for it? What if Quan Chi saw a sense of nihilism in Tanya's character and hence saw a potential protégé in her?

I would have liked to have a seen more with the Quan Chi/Mavado relationship. It's such a shame that the Red Dragon got tossed aside in MK: Deception. Perhaps it's that with the Red Dragon's sense of discipline and the fact that Daegon is the leader and founder of that clan, it would be able to deal with Sub-Zero and the Lin Kuei.

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I will talk about the MK movies later.


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To You-Know-Who: If Quan Chi is as old as the Netherrealm as John Vogel hinted, I doubt that he would have human origins. Even so, I personally think that giving him such a backstory as the one you brought up would take away from his absolute villain status. To me, he works just fine being a purely evil character even if he is essentially 1-dimensional.

I do appreciate a pure evil when it comes along, don't get me wrong. I definitely see Quan Chi as a being with no good in him what-so-ever. I like that absoluteness about him, and would not change it for anything the world. But while I don't think it is a must, and it is a bit of a risk, there is some interest from me in Quan Chi's origins.

He seems like someone who would choose evil. Not out of need or curiosity (like perhaps Shang Tsung did), or even out of ambition or desire (like Shao Kahn perhaps did). Quan Chi seems like the kind of guy who would choose evil for the very fact that it is evil. There's something very fascinating about that to me -- especially since I don't believe that anyone really sees their actions as "evil" -- except for perhaps Quan Chi. Everyone else tends to do things for reasons, but with Chi, there is a sense that he has turned himself into a void where if he succeeds, it only means that everyone else suffers. That can be seen in the intro for Deception, in a roundabout sort of way, where Earth's warriors have been laid to waste, and then Quan Chi and Shang Tsung have their fight, and Quan Chi stands victorious over all.

Out of all the characters introduced in Mortal Kombat so far, he is definitely the one that stands out as the "pure evil." You and I have both made comparisons to Quan Chi and The Joker, and I think there is some validity to that. You can even draw lines between Joker's relationships with the crime lords of Gotham, and perhaps how Quan Chi views the materialistic desires of Shang Tsung, and the quest for real estate that Shao Kahn and Shinnok have. Earthrealm deserves a new breed of villain, and he's going to give it to them...

But even The Joker has hints of where he came from. The numerous references to his father, even if they don't add up to one event, do pinpoint a child abused by his parent. Now that is NOT where I would go with Quan Chi, but I think a being that evil has to make a choice somewhere: "I really am going to be this fucking bad."

While I don't agree that an absolute evil needs to be all-powerful, I do think that having an absolute evil force that is seemingly undefeatable in combat is essentially what the idea villain in Mortal Kombat should be. In the new saga, I would like to see an evil presence emerge like that. One that cannot be reasoned with, and is really hard to overpower. While Quan Chi had the evil down, he didn't quite have the power. I see his black hole of a character being a good prototype, though. Perhaps in the face of a force like this, even Quan Chi would have to look in a mirror and somewhat reflect.

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Now, off the rails a bit. I took the Hero/Anti-Heroes journey model used earlier, and examined to see if it could fit a character that I have never been a big fan of: Smoke. Now, I did have to squint, and really look hard at what was going on in his story, but with some embelishing on what we know, I've managed to come up with a development for Smoke that has actually made me a lot more interested in the character.

First, we'll take Smoke's Ordinary World, We don't know much about Smoke's background, but we do know that he is a bizarre talent with the ability to break himself into a smoke-like element, which I believe would have endeared him greatly to the Lin Kuei -- being one of their most trusted assassins. Working for the Lin Kuei can be taken as Smoke's "ordinary world."

Now, we do not know why Smoke and Sub-Zero are close, but perhaps it has something to do with their unusual abilities, which would have made them "favourites" with the Lin Kuei. After the older Sub-Zero failed to kill Shang Tsung in Mortal Kombat I, the younger brother picks up the mantle and is shadowed by Smoke, in case he fails, While this is Sub-Zero's story, Smoke faces a Call to Adventure at this point. There is no moment where Smoke has to choose whether or not he wants to kill this sorcerer, essentially, as this is his friend's proving ground, Smoke is there as an older brother figure -- possibly even a form of mentor for Sub-Zero. Could this be considered a default Refusal of the Call? Smoke is only there in case Sub-Zero fails, and because the story sweeps them both along into the events of Mortal Kombat 3 before too long, ultimately the task is left untouched.

Now, this may get a bit shaky, but what if Smoke's Meeting with a Mentor took place during Mortal Kombat II. Not so much in a father-figure, or a teacher -- but in the younger Sub-Zero. As a member of the Lin Kuei, and perhaps someone who was close to the older Sub-Zero, as well as the younger one -- Smoke may see a heroism in Sub-Zero that he could not see in the older brother. This "bonding moment" between the two, could be what ultimately makes them such good friends, and inspires Smoke somehow. Enough to do what he does in Mortal Kombat 3...

When they return to Earthrealm, Sub-Zero and Smoke both Cross the First Threshold on their journey to their individual roles within the series. The Lin Kuei is automating their clan, which neither Sub-Zero nor Smoke agree with. There are many possible reasons for this, but essentially, we can gather that Smoke and Sub-Zero really like being in control of their own destinies. Now, this isn't explicitly stated within the canon, but I'd like to think rather than just being slower or stupider than Sub-Zero, and being caught -- especially considering the natural evasive potential Smoke has by being able to become...well...smoke -- Smoke chose to protect Sub-Zero from Sektor, Cyrax and the other Lin Kuei, and fought them off while Sub-Zero made his escape. Now this ties into Smoke seeing something in Sub-Zero which decides that his fate his arguably more important than his own well-being. Something that drives him to protect Sub-Zero.

Smoke is defeated, captured and turned into a cybernetic pawn of the Lin Kuei. I believe this can be considered part of his Test, Allies and Enemies stage, as he faces life without a will, serving with Sektor and Cyrax, while opposing a man he would protect if given a choice. Perhaps he even fights Scorpion during this time, another man who left to his own devices, would protect Sub-Zero. The irony is that Smoke originally debuted with Scorpion's moves, which gives their battle a sense of symmetry.

Eventually, Smoke breaks free of his robotic prison (I like to think that if Smoke is able to turn himself into smoke, then essentially his whole essence is able to do that -- which could explain why his soul is able to leak through somehow, and Smoke is able to regain his "humanity"). This could be his Approaching the Inmost Cave stage.

After this, I believe Sub-Zero, Smoke and Scorpion (showing up to honour his vow to Sub-Zero) are able to defeat Sektor and Cyrax, and they manage to re-program Cyrax to fight against Shao Kahn. This leads us to Smoke's Ordeal. Earth is under attack by Shao Kahn's forces. While Sub-Zero fights with Cyrax, Scorpion and Earth's warriors, Smoke perhaps uses his ability to whoosh ahead, and get an early vantage point against Shao Kahn's greatest warriors. This could also be Smoke's desire to protect Sub-Zero, by going ahead and facing the greatest evil himself, so as to not subject Sub-Zero to it. However, this is where Smoke's story becomes really bizarre, and his journey does a complete u-turn...

There is no Reward for Smoke. He is defeated, and left de-activated. I like to think that Smoke fought Shang Tsung, or something, which would address his Call in Mortal Kombat II. Now, this might be giving the Smoke character too much credibility, but perhaps he could even defeat Shang Tsung, who could then pretend to be honourable, and offer Smoke his humanity back using sorcery if he lets him live -- and he fires a concussion blast at Smoke. Or perhaps the shapeshifting of Tsung is able to confuse Smoke's cybernetic programming? This would play into the failing that even though Smoke still has his soul, he failed to retain his humanity against the Lin Kuei.

Now there is no canon to suggest that fight ever took place, it is just pure suggestion from me. I think a fight between the two characters could be very cool. I mean, someone had to defeat Smoke in Shao Kahn's palace. The point is, Smoke is de-activated, and here his story essentially takes a detour to the "Anti-Hero's Journey."

The Road Back for Smoke comes when Noob Saibot finds his de-activated body, and brings him back to life. Potential irony here is the fact that Smoke and Noob Saibot could have worked together before, and could have even been quite close. And if not, then Smoke certainly was to the brother of the man he is now working with. Smoke is programmed to help Noob Saibot in his quest to not only take over the Netherealm, but other realms, using Smoke's nanotechnology to create a race of cyber-demons. Unfortunately for Smoke, who at one stage valued humanity, he is now essentially a cancer on it.

Now, this is where we really lose sight of where the MK story goes. Does Smoke achieve his Resurrection with the older Sub-Zero, reaching his destiny as a cancer on the realms (this would not be disconnected from when Smoke was working as an assassin for the Lin Kuei, bringing death to a select few); or does he achieve this with the younger Sub-Zero, essentially regaining his humanity, and deciding to fight against the cancers that plague the realms?

It should be noted that Smoke fights with the good characters in the Armageddon intro. Now this may not be canon, but it seems to suggest that perhaps Smoke could be fighting against Noob Saibot, hopefully in control of his own destiny again. Perhaps Smoke's Return with the Elixer takes place in Armageddon, which would be fitting, as it is the end of the saga. Whether Smoke learns the true meaning of humanity, or the true tragedy of being the anti-thesis to it, Smoke became a lot more interesting to me when I really analysed his story.

Did I do a bad job with Smoke? Granted, he's not a main protagonist of the series, but essentially in fighters, you choose a character who is (hopefully) the centre of their own story. That is what Smoke is, and he has his own role to play in the grand scheme of things, and he has his own progression.

So, to put it in another words, you're saying Smoke causes cancer?

No, not at all. I'm saying he can be compared to a cancerous cell -- spreading what he is like a poison throughout the "living entity" of the realms. It was sort of his Mortal Kombat: Deception story, I believe.

Although, I'd probably say that living with Smoke would make you worse than a pack a day.

I don't know if comparing him to a spreading cancer is accurate. He did demonstrate the ability in the Lin Kuei level of Armageddon to infect others with nanobots and turn them into minions of Noob, like he'd wanted with the demons in his Deception story. But that was a deliberate process and Noob was defeated and left in Subbie's custody, which would imply along with Smoke being on the good guys' side of the big war, that Subbie finally got his hands on Smoke and broke his programming. Which means Smoke isn't infecting anyone against their will anymore, he has control over his nanobots. (Unless you count his ending, where the god-power he gains by beating Blaze is that they consume Edenia, but that's obviously completely non-canon like all the other Armageddon endings that aren't Taven's.)

On the subject of Smoke though, It's worth mentioning I think that they did INTEND to have a story thread in Deception about why his alternate costume has smoke for skin and clothing like he's become human again - what they wanted to do was explain that when Noob took him to the Netherealm, his nanobots became corrupted by the energies there and he's now sort of part-demon. This never made it into the game though, because they couldn't give Noob-Smoke two sets of bios and endings, so they decided to only tell the Noob half of their storyline since he's the leader and Smoke is programmed to serve him. Nevertheless, it's a cool idea.

Guys, it was just an analogy to summarise the role Smoke played for a short time as a villain. Whether he was a good guy in Armageddon or not, he was part of Noob Saibot's plans to take over the realms. That is alls I says. And, as said, his Armageddon ending also sort of recognises this, even if it is obviously non-canon.

pointless

I love it when you post, X. It gives me renewed purpose to returning to these forums. I'll probably skip some points, but I will address others:

Quan Chi
I can understand not wanting to probe backwards into Quan Chi's story unneccessarily. I will not lose any sleep if they did. They have just completely a portrait of evil which is so complete, in my opinion. Something holds him back from being a supernatural force in my mind, though. There's just something "too weak" about him. I really want to become a devote fan of the Quan Chi character, don't get me wrong -- but at the moment I am sort of sitting on the fence.

Yeah, the character is awesome -- but I feel that there is something that could make it better. Either a backstory more definite, or some sort of power boost, perhaps?

Nitara
She did introduce us to the new vampire realm, but I could see that being the completion of her story -- rather than the beginning of it. Or perhaps she could return from time-to-time. She doesn't seem like the kind of silly girl that would get herself recklessly involved in the main plot. I don't think it really mattered whether she was back or not in Deception. I just wish they would have explained where she was, somehow.

On the Tekunin
The Hsu Hao idea is not a bad one, although I would prefer it if the character were dead. That is probably the most intriguing thing they could do with him, though. It almost would have made sense following Deadly Alliance, with the Red Dragon and Tekunin almost having similar goals -- the destruction of both the Lin Kuei and the Special Forces.

I can understand why you'd see Cyrax being re-programmed as flip-flopping, but I think it depends on how it is done. I think there are ways to keep the character interesting while turning it back into a weapon for an evil cause again. I think it would be specifically good for giving Sonya, and perhaps even Jax, a more personal reason for destroying the Tekunin.

Sindel and Jade
I agree with you entirely about Sindel. It just feels that her character serves no further purpose for the story. Jade is a tricky one, but I can't see too many characters from that realm coming back. They'll probably be a lot of "ors" involved. Kitana or Sindel, Taven or Rain, Jade or Mileena. That sort of stuff. The stories can probably be focused a-new.

I'm sure you have other objections to Jade being enthralled by the throne, but I don't think having Rain, Tanya and Mileena all around is going to be a problem.

Order and Chaos
We are in complete agreeance about Havik and Hotaru being the brighter two characters. Specifically Havik, who can pretty much fit into any MK story as just an entity out to cause chaos. The parallels between Havik and The Joker are also quite strong.

Reptile
I think you misunderstood me a little bit about Reptile -- I will try to make it more clear. The brother-sister thing was a bit dramatised, but what I essentially mean to question is the relationship between Reptile and, say, Kitana. They both served closely under Shao Kahn. Perhaps Kitana even feared Reptile at one point?

Of course, this isn't something I would take further in the story. But it's something I wouldn't mind touching in retrospect. I can't see Reptile having much use to a future story. Although, I would have said that about him after Mortal Kombat 3's saga, too, and he was one of the primary villains in the next game.

As for Reptile actually becoming The Dragon King...I don't mind it. But I don't see the big objections to Reptile just being a vessel. He was a vessel for the fucking bad-ass unstoppable Emperor of Outworld. It was just an ironic twist of fate which swept Reptile up into something that was larger than him. I don't think it needs much more than that. Reptile should have died (in any sense of the word) when the energy beam shot out of the Dragon Egg, in my opinion.

I always thought it was kinda...blatantly obvious that Quan Chi's "personal assassins" double as sex slaves. I mean, surely male demons make better actual assassins than a crew of all women, changed to look like sexy, nearly naked humans.

But maybe that's just me. Well...me and the Conquest show. They definitely played it straight that way. Though there were a LOT of sexual overtones in that show. Like...every single episode.

Aaanyway...on the subject of Reptile, is there any actual proof he was alive when Zaterra was conquered? I always assumed he's fairly young and been in Kahn's service his entire life, which is why he's always discovering things about his race from others like Khameleon and Nitara, rather than knowing from the very beginning.

Zaterra easily could've been conquered before OR after Edenia and it wouldn't actually matter because it has no actual bearing on Reptile's age or knowledge if he wasn't born yet when it happened.

Idk, there's just something about Quan Chi that makes me need to have an explanation as to why or how this guy came into existence.

I mean, if he was just born a demon....then what conditions allow that to happen? Is it scientific to any degree? Are there "energies that condense in a given space that produce a certain life-form or structure"....? Leans towards cosmic phenomena like Nebula, exhibiting similar behavior as has been hypothesized on in order to produce stars//suns. That could seem plausible given the black hole theme Quan Chi seems to embody.....Somethin'.

And if he endured something similar as to Scorpion, or Noob Saibot, or Drahmin....then who was he before, and what happened to him in order to create the circumstances that allow him to be who we know him to be now? Of course I still like my idea in that, he was probably a part of that Houan sect, went to hell, and then re-emerged after being forgotten. Things match up with that idea iMo.

Anyway, something that distinguishes this guy beyond the Mr. Potato-Head ambiguity that exists there. I just don't accept that *poof*, there's Quan Chi, possibly as old as the NetherRealm itself all of a sudden. Oh, and he's the genius and cancerous sort of character too btw.

I need more from him first.

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As an additive, and I think maybe as a contribution to how mature this game should be by now...I'd like to see how Quan Chi is responsible for Sareena, Kia, and Jatakka in some form (outside of a corny magic trick, obviously. Something really creative and imaginative).

Maybe just how he molded them into being how they appear to us now, and how heavy his influence on them really is. For instance, did he grow them in some sense of the word grow? And if he did, how many demons would he have had to sacrifice in order to get the formula right? Surely it was a heinous process considering the demeanor of his character.

I'll admit it's probably little petty stuff I'm asking for but, depth concerning Quan Chi's supposed trained intellect and capabilities as a dark arts sorcerer is what I'm after.

That seems like reaching a little bit to me.

It's just an illusion. Again, I suspect the way it was depicted in Conquest was close to the truth. He just passes his hand in front of their face and whoosh, the rotted, Meat-esque flesh looks like smooth, pretty human skin instead. Maybe they had horns and fangs and he made those disappear too.

pointless

pointless

I remember reading somewhere that Shinnok molded a lot of demons into the form of demons because of his obsession with Earthrealm. It might have been in the analysis of the Mortal Kombat 4 plot. If that is the case, then it makes me think:

Quan Chi being given Sareena, Kia and Jatakka as personal servants -- the most human-looking of all the demons -- is a bit bizarre. This, to me, could be one of the earliest signs of Quan Chi's ambition to overthrow Shinnok. His servants actually somewhat achieve the visual appearance of being human. Shinnok's are piles of meat.

"Shinnok, however, had nothing to rule. The realm was a desolate wasteland of fire and brimstone inhabited by grotesque demons that smelled of the foulest stench. So, he decided to create a physical world, trying his best to emulate the realm he wanted so badly... Earth. He took the demons of his realm and transformed them into as human a form as possible. But unlike the Outworld, which became a wasteland after Shao Kahn sapped its energies, the Netherealm can never be a living planet. It will always exist as a dead world. It's true form hidden by its ruler."

A direct quote from the backstory of MK Mythologies.

That's why all the buildings in Hell in MKM look like industrial plants and a real, metal prison and all the prison guards look humanoid.

Of course, we also get the stereotypical Hell full of caves and lava from Scorpion's Lair and DA, Deception, and Armageddon, which is apparently all part of the "5th plane" of the Netherealm. Which suggests that the Netherealm has 9 levels like in Dante's Inferno. Maybe Shinnok only bothered with changing the top floor to look like Earth.

Kia, Jataaka, and Sareena, though, don't cover their faces under hoods like the prison guards do. I think Shinnok's spell to make the demons look human is imperfect and Quan Chi's got a better one, which is why the girls working for him look right enough to show off their faces.

Wow, looking back at this line makes very odd what some of the NPC's in MKD's Konquest mode tell you about Shinnok: That the punishment for displeasing him will be to roam around outside the city in Hell endlessly as a zombie.

So out of curiosity, I just looked it up. In Dante's Inferno, the 5th level of Hell is for Wrath. So it lines up perfectly with the 5th plane in MK being the one Scorpion calls home.

Did I really missed this thread? Wow. Many people here have a talent for analyzing characters and plots. Gratz! Personally I would like if Jerrod was revived for MK9, it could bring an interesting twist for all Edenian characters, considering their stories need a punch.



This is why your fan fiction ''Kitana's Redemption'' is so well-constructed and interesting to read, hell I think I'm gonna read it a third time.


EDIT: Sorry I bumped, I didn't notice the date and I think it should be stickied anyway.

I think, if anything, we need fewer Edenian characters. Kill off a few who really aren't needed and start afresh with a new direction for the realm (if you even bring it back, at all).

I wanted to make a point about the controversial Shinnok/ Raiden/ Shao Kahn plot point.

Mortal Kombat Deception says that the Elder Gods created the Gods. Therefor they stand as a "parent" race to the Gods; that's not to say that the Gods are the children of the Elder Gods in the way that Argus is the father of Taven and Daegon, but it's more a creator/ creation relationship.

So while the Gods aren't brothers in the sense that Taven and Daegon are, but they are a brotherhood...a small race of beings, maybe numbering a few dozen, who have the same origins.

So while I don't think Shinnok is Raiden's father in the classic sense, he might very well be Raiden's creator...we don't know which Elder Gods created which Gods, but it is very possible that Shinnok was Raiden's creator.

I'm not certain how Shao Kahn would factor into this, if at all. MKD said that Shao Kahn, Raiden, and Lucifer were of the same race...which would imply Kahn's Godhood, making him part of that "brotherhood."

So in conclusion, are they conventional relatives? No. But it is worth noting that they are connected beyond their skirmishes, and have known each other for an eternity.

Something interesting, you've made me think about. Did Raiden somehow scam is way into godhood? Raiden represents the only instance mentioned of a god being elevated to an Elder God. Could he have been something else (mortal, demon, or other) prior to his entrance into the pantheon? One need only ignore his MK1 age as "eternal" and birthplace as "deity - does not apply" to see how this origin has some possibilities.

I think The Elder Gods have long been looking to replace Shinnok, as both Raiden and Argus have taken the empty spot left behind by him.

Can I get this thread locked? De-stickied, deleted...just gone.