Pretty sums up my feelings on Mortal Kombat lately. Which is why I rarely post anymore, myself. Just seems like a lost cause at this juncture. Even if/when they do make the next MK, I dread what fans they'll be catering to.

I'm come to believe that when Mortal Kombat truly dies, it will have been the fanbase that killed it.

This is what I have been wanting for a long time. Ever since it was revealed that Noob was the original Sub Zero, I have been wanting a rivalry between these two. Unfortunately there has been no mention or hint towards it.

As for the section on Scorpion in the original post - I have to disagree. Scorpion's story isn't messed up as bad as you make it out to be. I think this may be due to the way you are looking into it - you seem to be trying to fit it in with everyhing else. The fact that Scorpion is neutral and has is own vendetta makes it so his story has no relevance to the rest of the cast (except the ones he is hunting down).

Scorpion's MK2 ending (the vow of protection) has to be cannon to some degree otherwise it throws out his story for MK3 and 4. The way I see it is that he does not become his bodyguard, but just agrees not to bring harm onto him. As in MK3 it says Scorpion is bound in the Netherrealm and only able to escape during the invasion. Scorpion is then employed by Shao Kahn, but later turns his back on him in order to protect the young Sub Zero.

If anything, Scorpion and Sub Zero should be somewhat allies, or at least have a mutual agreement not to attack each other.

In my opinion there are only 2 things messed up about Scorpion's storyline:
1. Armageddon! But the story for that game is completely messed up anyway.

2. The developers insist on having Scorpion and Sub Zero fight. I'm sick to death of this, especially since they have no real reason to fight, and the fact that he SHOULD be fighting Quan Chi and/or Noob Saibot.

One simple solution would be to have Scorpion fighting one of these 2 characters (or both) in MK9, and for the Armageddon storyline to be ignored!

gone

How do the events of MK3 and 4 confirm that Scorpion made the vow exactly?
Scorpion's MK3 plot is so far removed from the stories of the other characters that one cannot be assured his ending happened. Nothing confirms Scorpion ever saved Sub-Zero's life at anytime since MK2, and even that's pretty vague because in the official comic, Scorpion vows to protect Sub-Zero before they enter Outworld, whereas in his ending, he only makes the vow after watching him battle in the tournament in Outworld.
Also, MK4 has him only interact with Sub-Zero at one point; to kill him. How does that confirm Scorpion was still protecting him? It just seems to go against that vow really easily.
MK3 and 4 is where Scorpion's story began to get too fucked up for him to be saved.

Scorpion's MK3 ending mentions the vow, making his MK2 ending canon even if the MK3 ending itself is not, because the nature of the beast is if you mention something twice in two different games, it had to have happened, otherwise why bring it back up?

As for his MK4 bio, it says Scorpion is recruited by Quan Chi specifically for the new war with the Elder Gods. Thus, the order of events HAS to be THIS:

MK1: After Scorpion's death, he vows vengeance. Quan Chi resurrects Scorpion to kill Classic Sub-Zero. He tells him if he does so, his vow will be fulfilled and his soul will finally "rest". (This is taken by most sources, canonical or not, to mean it'll make up for his sins and he'll go to heaven. Sitting around in the Netherealm is not restfull or else he'd already BE at rest.)

MK2: Scorpion's soul is not at rest, even though he accomplished his task. Rather than realizing Quan Chi lied to him, he assumes ALL ON HIS OWN that something is wrong, and thus discovers there's still a "Sub-Zero" out and about and figures he must've somehow botched the job, so he goes to Outworld UNDER HIS OWN POWER to finish it. (Even if this game hadn't already done so, MKDA also clearly tells us that as long as he's working toward a revenge vow, he has the power to constantly self-resurrect)

He thus finds out this is not the same Sub-Zero. He proceeds to assume ALL ON HIS OWN that if he's not at rest, but he did settle his vow, he must have to actually ATONE for his sins before he gets that rest he's after. Thus, the protection vow.

MK4: Quan Chi comes to Scorpion for the SECOND time and, because he needs a soldier for their attack on Heaven and Edenia, tells him right then and NOT before, "You were wrong, this second Sub-Zero does have to be killed after all. The first one got you, the second one got your family. This is what happened." Scorpion proceeds to go "Oh, I get it now."

This is the exact order of events the bios give when you read them in order. Any other interpretation requires mental gymnastics where you ASSUME there's a retcon where one was never actually spelled out.

When Johnny Cage didn't die? Vogel flat out told us.
When Shao Kahn and Goro didn't die? The retcon was spelled out.
When Noob turned out to be Classic Subby? It was pretty fuckin' obvious.

The creators of this game are NOT subtle. When they change a fact of history, they always LET US KNOW. No one EVER let us know Scorpion was working for Quan Chi in MK2 and 3. Thus, he WASN'T.

God DAMMIT, must I endure this same stupid argument twice a year for the rest of my life or what?!

This is going to be fun... Since you're posting right after mine, I'm assuming you're responding to me, but if you're not, I understand, because it seems you're responding to someone who was actually talking about Quan Chi and Scorpion working together in MK2 and 3, and putting words into my post that aren't there.
1. Where did I (or anyone in the past few posts) ever say that Scorpion has been working for Quan Chi since he died (the entire span of MK, including MK2 and 3)? Please, point this out in my last post, because if you can, then your entire argument is relevant to what I was bringing up, namely that Scorpion has not had a solid direction in his plans since MK2; if not, then don't pull an mkflegend and bring up stuff that has nothing to do with what is being brought up.
2. Where did I write that the vow never happened? Once again, point this out to me, because if I recall correctly, I never wrote that Scorpion never made the vow; I asked for clear-cut proof that Scorpion lived up to this vow. I am of the opinion that Scorpion did make a vow in MK2, but I also believe that his story-line got fucked up between MK2 and MK4 to not take the vow into account and re-introduce the Scorpion versus Lin Kuei feud.
Your little recap is great and all, but the fact you threw Quan Chi in there for no reason bugs me a lot. Scorpion says in MK1 that his demons allowed him to return to avenge his death, and that in his ending, despite him killing Sub-Zero, he must exist forever with his secret curse; I see no mention of him getting rest because of this task, or him mentioning doing this task to get rest either. The MK comic also states that he's there clearly to avenge his death. He's doing it because he wants Sub-Zero dead, and that is his ultimate reward, knowing that he achieved the whole "eye-for-an-eye" bit, as revealed in his MK1 ending and the MK2 comic where Raiden says Scorpion killed Sub-Zero then disappeared. Scorpion was never resurrected he was just allowed to escape from Hell; the only characters to ever be resurrected are Mileena and Sindel (and technically Johnny Cage and Baraka but they were retconned). Scorpion is dead as of his first encounter with Sub-Zero in MK: Mythologies. Hooray for Scorpion though on succeeding in his task.
MK2 has him come back because he thinks that he failed his goal to kill Sub-Zero; he realizes at some point (either before or after the tournament, the comic and game contradict each other) this is a different Sub-Zero, and so decides to protect him to give his existence validity. Yay.
Now MK3 comes along, and we realize that since Scorpion is now protecting Sub-Zero (even though he's trapped in the depths of Hell and can offer no known form of protection to Sub-Zero while he's down there), he has no reason to come back because he's now made peace with the whole ordeal; doesn't stop Shao Kahn from yanking him out of Hell because he wants Hell's souls. Scorpion's biogrphy states that he has no allegiance with anyone, but because his ending states that he has to turn on Kahn because Sub-Zero's a chosen warrior, he does so. Yay?
Do a double take on this one please. Scorpion has no reason for being in MK3? That's right. He was pulled out of Hell by accident not because Shao Kahn wanted Scorpion's services, not because he's going to protect Sub-Zero, not to fulfill any revenge, he's literally, just there as a wild card to do whatever he chooses. One can argue that he did side with Shao Kahn and then betrayed him to side with Sub-Zero, but it's just as easy to say that Scorpion did shit-all in MK3 and hit up the Outworld strip clubs while Kahn and the Earth warriors fought. No further games ever did explain what Scorpion did in MK3, so as far as I'm concerned, Scorpion's MK3 story-line did nothing to or for his character, regardless of the vow.
Now MK4 comes along, and Scorpion is promised to possibility of resurrection if he fights for Quan Chi and Shinnok. But as his biography clearly states, Scorpion accepts, but hides under ulterior motives. Then, all of a sudden, we warp straight to his ending, and learn that his ultimate goal was to kill Sub-Zero... Again. No mention of Quan Chi informing him of anything, no mention of any confusion about who this Sub-Zero is, just Scorpion going after Sub-Zero on his own; if anything, all Scorpion's MK4 ending shows is that Quan Chi had the foresight to know that Scorpion would go after Sub-Zero, because as his biography states, Scorpion was promised life, not an opportunity to avenge the death of the Shirai Ryu and his family. Anyone who tells you that Quan Chi manipulated Scorpion to fight the younger Sub-Zero is unfortunately, only making an assumption, because to this day, it has never been explained why Scorpion pursued Sub-Zero again.
You talk about not having to do mental gymnastics for Scorpion's story-line, but as far as I can tell, your recap is only mental gymnastics and trying to make things fit into already established stories instead of focusing on what the stories are and the facts that lay behind them; you remind me of a scholar for Nostradamus that believe every quatrain he wrote is a prediction for what is happening today and the future, and only need to modify a word, letter, or allude to some past event to give their theory validity when in actuality, they are just not making any sense with it and have no substantial evidence to offer, except for their opinions.
Scorpion having a vow to protect Sub-Zero is no longer relevant to his story after MK2, regardless of it being canon or not, retconned or not. I'm always going to regard it as canon, but I'm never going to regard Scorpion as a genius for following up on his good intentions or ideas.

gone

I wish it was though, as it would tie everything up nicely and give more credit to Quan Chi's foresight mentioned in Mythologies and show that there was a plan all along for Quan Chi and Scorpion, and show that the MK writers know how to wrap up details well.

The way I see it is that Shinnok is trapped in the Neatherealm, and hires Quan Chi as his right-hand man to do his bidding for him.
The overall plan is to get some great warriors to help Shinnok take his revenge on the Elder Gods (storyline in MK4).

The Netherealm is hell to Earthrealm only, so Shinnok needs to find some warriors (from that realm) evil enough to be sent to hell. Thus, Sub Zero and Scorpion (remember the original Sub Zero is a heartless bastard, and Scorpion is a ninja (which as disloyal and untrustworthy in their own right)).

So Quan Chi (on behalf of Shinnok) gets Scorpion and Sub Zero to kill each other - which they do. Noob becomes a wraith and is obedient to Shinnok while Scorpion still has some emotion left in him and his own egenda to fulfill. So they have to trick Scorpion into helping them take out some of the forces of light - one being the young Sub Zero (MK4), but all goes tits up when Scorpion learns the truth about Quan Chi and drags him down into the Neatherealm.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

Not true. It was only referred to as "Earth's Hell" in UMK3, before Tobias had fleshed out the concept. Trilogy, Mythologies, and MK4 all establish that the Netherealm is a whole realm all to itself where all the universe's evil souls go.

For instance, Mileena went there when she died in MK2.
And my feelings on Scorpion's origin story and Quan Chi and Shinnok being the ones who made him a spectre are exactly what XD said...except I consider it fact, because it can't be argued against. To argue against it would require you to have an alternative theory. And that's not possible.
Scorpion can't have made himSELF a spectre, where would the power come from? Wouldn't half the souls in the Netherealm be able to do the same if all it takes is swearing vengeance on your murderer?
There's only ONE way out of the Netherealm and that's permission from an authority/god. Sub-Zero couldn't get out without Raiden making portals for him. Mileena was dead until Shinnok rez'd her. Sindel couldn't even be made evil and brought back to life without Shinnok's help. Scorpion HAD to have been made a spectre/given the power to escape by Shinnok/Quan Chi because there simply is no one else to do it. Without Quan Chi, Scorp would still be sitting in a cell in the Prison of Souls.
And as an added bonus, it doesn't just make the most sense, it also allows for a certain pleasing irony when, in MKDA, Scorpion's spectre powers are what allows him to torture and haunt Quan so persistently.

I think Scorpion's MK4 ending was just a poorly written way for them to reveal Quan CHi was the actual murdere of his family and clan.

Your opinion of the writing has no bearing. What happened happened, our responsibility is to understand the chain of events.

Doesn't MK:M also show Quan Chi carrying a bag that he claims has the ashes of the Shirai Ryu clan? Isn't that Quan saying, "Oh, by the way, I just killed your entire rival clan as payment for your services?" some time before Scorpion's ending in MK4?

Just the way I see it.

Obviously. I know it retcons the MK2 ending, just said it was bad writing.

Didn't Scorpion's MK2 ending have him saying "This can't be the guy who killed me or my family"?

The only "retcon" is that sometime in the years between MK2 and MK4, Quan Chi convinced him otherwise for his own purposes. Quan has a lot to do with Scorpion's power and is a manipulator, so this is entirely possible. I see no retcon.

It does retcon the MK2 ending, in MK2 Scorpion says, "This isn't the guy who killed my family and clan."

In MK4, he's trying to kill Sub-Zero for killing his family and clan.

You're not paying attention, MK_Warrior. Both things happened.

Scorpion DID find out that the Subby in MK2 wasn't the one he was after.

But AFTER MK3, Quan Chi wanted Scorpion on his side for MK4, so he came to Scorpion and lied and told him "The first Sub-Zero killed you, but the second Sub-Zero killed your family, so you DO need to get him."

I've said this before, in this same topic, I don't know how many times. People really need to read more clearly.

What I'M saying is that they never mentioned Quan Chi telling Scorpion that. Far as I know, retcon happened.

Sorry, but the burden of proof ALWAYS lies on the person claiming there IS a retcon.
Retcons in the MK canon are always very obvious. The very fact that we're having this argument at all proves there wasn't one because if there had been, there'd be some goddamn evidence and it'd be impossible to dispute.

Besides, the idea that Quan Chi told him to kill Younger Subby AFTER MK3 rather than BEFORE MK2 is more logical and requires the least hassle and assumptions. Occam's Razor: "The simplest explanation is always the best."
I feel like I've been repeating this same shit over and over for years. Why do I fucking bother...

The whole reason we got into this argument was because I said I thought it was bad writing, instead of Scorpion having a new motive, he's going after Sub-Zero again, who he knew had nothing to do with the murder of his family and clan. Quan Chi never told Scorpion that the younger Sub-Zero had a part in killing his family and clan. Quan Chi told Scorpion he could give him life back. Here is his MK4 bio.

"In hopes of gaining Scorpion as a new ally in the war with the Elder Gods, QuanChi make the dead Ninja an offer he cannot refuse - Life, in exchange for his services as a warrior against the Elders."

Thats why he is siding with Quan Chi. Quan Chi didn't tell him anything.

"Scorpion accepts, but hides under alterior motives."

Meaning he's after Sub-Zero because he thinks he killed his family and clan, which is just plain stupid because he realizes in MK2 that it couldn't have been the same Sub-Zero who killed his family and clan.

I'm done repeating myself. Read the whole topic. All 11 pages. Then get back to me.

This argument brings up something interesting....

I read this whole page so I don't really remember who this directly relates to, but the question is this:

If we end up finding out that Shinnok and Quan Chi are in fact the reason Hanzo is Scorpion (via some kind of spell//curse or what have you), and knowing Shinnok and Quan Chi are both magic users (necromancers), if Scorpion kills Quan Chi, doesn't that kill Scorpion?

....and if Shinnok dies in any real way, that would kill Scorpion too, wouldn't it?

As I understand it, the sorcerer of a spell has to be alive in order for a spell to exist. Even if the spell caster forgets that they cast a spell//curse, they're spending energy on it so long as it, and they exist. Just like the insinuation surrounding Shao Kahn lately; "if he dies, everyone who pledged their soul to him, goes down with him."

In all the magicians, sorcerers, ect I've ever read about or watched, all you have to do is distract them in most cases, and the spell that their playing with collapses ("Harry Potter" is a very simple example of this). But if the spell they cast is "permanent" (like a witch casting a curse on someone), and the caster dies, the spell dies with them.

That's a magic trick man. A very powerful one no doubt, but it's a curse that could die if the sorcerer(s) dies.

hm..I wonder if this is true.

Cuz if the curse they cast on Hanzo is "permanent", and they're not willing to die to lift the curse on him, or are never killed, Scorpion will never get rest (lol). What if Scorpions true liberation is killing Quan Chi & or Shinnok because of the specific type of curse the cast on him?

eh..

The simplest way around saying he'd be no more once Quan Chi or Shinnok died would be to say that when the Elder Gods made him into their champion, however briefly, they changed the nature of his being.

I don't think Scorpion's transformation into a Spectre works like that. Besides, not all fiction is the same. There are plenty of stories where killing the caster doesn't end a curse.

This.