I don't think a piece of clothing is on the same value level in the eyes of the Elder Gods as a spouse.

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Once again, great analysis.

Despite the fact that Reptile became my favorite character during part 1 and 2, I find myself reluctantly agreeing with your assessment that he's walking down the anti-heroes path with no real happy ending waiting for him.

And yeah, to see a character start out with a glimmer of hope and potential, only to see him kicked down time and time again gets extremely frustrating. I think just about anyone that cared about Reptile was anxiously awaiting Khameleon's bio for Armageddon only to learn that he had betrayed her during the events of MK3. It was like the ultimate slap in the face.

Why, why why would he betray her?

But I think you make some good guesses as to what was going through his head.

His involvement in Armageddon's Konquest I can't even guess at. I like to think that it was just another random Konquest moment that's not canon. It may be a cheap way out, but considering how slap-dashed the rest of the Armageddon storyline was, it may warrant being dismissed.

I still want him to redeem himself even if it means he has to heroically sacrifice his own life for the greater good. I would like to point out that his ending in Armageddon had him reviving another female Zaterran and running off with her to rebuild their lost race. This ending is unlike nearly all other MKA endings in that we don't see Reptile defeating Blaze and gaining super powers.
Rather, someone else defeated Blaze and Reptile took advantage of the distraction to make off with his new girlfriend. Perhaps this is his happy ending after all. He sees the chaos and turmoil erupting all around him, and renounces all of it. He doesn't help anyone but himself for once. While it may seem selfish, we must remember that as an anti-hero, not helping the bad guys is probably as helpful as he's ever going to be to the good guys.

I had a personal theory as to the aftermath of Decepticon that could easily lead into his Armageddon ending. Anyone who was present during MKDA would either assume that Reptile had wandered off, never to be seen again, or got himself killed somehow.

Only a select few people knew that Reptile had served as the host body of Onaga. Even Onaga never made mention of the fact afterwards. He may have believed that Reptile didn't survive the separation. Afterall, his soul was taken back to the Netherealm while Reptile remained alive and well in Edenia.

So with all this commotion going on, it would have been very easy for Reptile to slip into the background unnoticed by his masters. If we ignore his brief appearance working alongside the Red Dragon in Konquest, then he appears just long enough to break into the pyramid and make off with a female Zaterran.

It's entirely possible that Khameleon didn't even know Reptile was anywhere near the battlefield during all of this. Her non-canon ending could take place whether she was aware of his presence or not. However, if she's not, then it may not be so much Khameleon giving up on Reptile, as she's got no reason to believe he's alive anymore.

*sooo wants Reptile to have a happy ending*

Down the drain he goes. Is this poor concept really worth keeping? Not in my world.

Normally I don't agree with Chrome on, like, anything...but I don't like Reptile as a character either.

It always bothers me to see people say "You can't leave Reptile out, he's iconic too!" or "Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and Reptile" as if he's an equal of the other two. What's Reptile got to offer a game that's so great?
He and both C/Khameleons finally dying in Armageddon would fit his whole loss and failure "one step forward, two steps back" theme pretty well, I think. Extinction, once and for all.

Hey there. I'm sorry that I haven't gotten around to posting in this thread in a while. It takes me time to really gather my thoughts on things like this. I'll probably get to Sonya's analysis and other things later.

About Reptile's analysis, this one was particularly interesting. After reading it, I feel even more regretful for allowing the whole New Zaterran plot to emerge as I'm not too fond of Anacon. I wasn't really into Reptile all that much, but I do think he's kind of appealing in a way. Looking back, I probably would have taken Reptile's story in a different direction. But as far as I know, Paragon and I will be continuing that side of the story.

One thing that confuses me about Reptile is his de-evolution. In MK1-MK3, we get the idea that he is a reptilian creature that has a human disguise. In MK4, we see him in a humanoid type body shape but with reptilian skin. But when we get to MKDA, we have him as even more reptilian and with a story tidbit that explains that without being near his race, he continues to de-evolve. So what I wonder is if his MK4 look is the beginning of his de-evolution or if they simply just have him do away with his human disguise.

MK4 was just him dropping the disguise. The de-evolution didn't start until Deadly Alliance.
Although, an argument could be made that his MIND was de-evolving by MK4, and that's the reason he stopped pretending to be a human ninja. His personality is definitely more brutal and violent in 4 than it was in 2 and 3, what with that whole "attempted genocide" thing.

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That sounds decent, actually. Yeah.

After all this time I only just now read your analysis of Liu Kang. I think to some extent everyone knows that Liu is really a routine kind of hero, or at least that's how he comes across, and I suspect that might have played a big factor in the decision to kill him off at the beginning of MKDA.

Despite this I think you found an actual, legitimate path that he walks and dug and dug until you found the character development, though it was well hidden and seemingly minimal. I think, taking what we know of Liu in mind, a good writer could develop his by-the-numbers portrayal into something really good.

Going into Outworld, consumed by rage, I could picture Liu beating an enemy to a pulp, never letting up, and ready to kill this person in cold blood. It'd take one of his close friends to reel him back in and prevent him from performing a Fatality. Wouldn't that be something. The game that always encourages us to, "Finish Them," and Liu Kang would be the one to say, "No."

Good analysis, as always, Xia. :D

some of you may have mentioned how the matches may have went in the mk1 tournament. Well here is how I think they may have went.

sonya vs kano- kano wins
kano vs johnny cage- cage wins
cage vs scorpion- scorpion wins
liu kang vs subzero- liu wins
scorpion vs raiden- raiden wins
liu vs raiden- raiden realizes liu is the chosen one and lets him win

now would also be the time raiden would have all the earth fighters to join forces

liu vs goro- liu wins

all the earth warriors then fight together against the guards, goro, and reptile(who as shang tsungs bodyguard does not fight in the tournament but does try to keep liu away from shang)

liu knocks reptile out of the way and some of the other earth warriors can take over for him against reptile while liu goes on to face shang and win

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By chance (whether you'd believe that or not) I stopped in this thread again to find Raiden's analysis posted up. I am happy to finally find it up at such an opportuned time for me, and I think you did a great job with it.

Anywho, one thing I always wondered about is the role, or, even the position that Raiden may have taken in the Mortal Kombat contest that saw the Elder Kung Lao defeated and killed. I've wondered if that may have had something to do with why Raiden seemed so pissed off in the 1st Mortal Kombat story. Because, what if Raiden and the Elder Kung Lao had this similar relationship as him and Liu Kang? And what if back then, Raiden simply followed "god law" or whatever, and didn't do anything about the Elder Kung Laos death, even though he may have felt really connected to him like he (sorta, probably, maybe) does with Liu Kang?

In any case, Raiden existed during that Mortal Kombat contest, and I'd like to know more details about Raidens involvement.

However, it also brings up questions as to what may have made Raiden resurrect Liu Kang because, since he didn't resurrect the Elder Kung Lao, maybe resurrecting Liu Kang is a knee-jerk sort of reaction, that followed an " I told you so" scenario with the Elder Gods before the taint, that maybe was one of those thoughts in the back of his mind while he was fighting Quan Chi and Shang Tsung....

You see, I'm not suggesting that Raiden went into that fight without wisdom, or without a thought process. I think he's too old for a display of ignorance like that. BUT, I think there's a small bit of psychology that could be opened up right there as to why things happened the way they did. What the hell was he thinking?

I'm thinking that throughout Raidens existence, and considering all the things that he has become sensitive to (particularly, the well-being of Earth, and Mortal Kombats "mentored characters"), like you've//I've mentioned in the past, Raiden could've just gotten fed up with all the BS over the years and actually....FINALLY, had enough. A stock pile of individuals or situations that violated the rules over the course of his existence as the protector of Earth.

With that said though, I'm finding it really hard to calculate that it was someone//something like the One Being that helped this tainted state emerge through Raiden. I think it could just be something like the inconsistency in the Etherrealms environment, and the souls of the two evil sorcerers "intertwining". Or that it may have just been that last lingering frustration Raiden felt about the situation that he was in, that led it to come out of him. An.....an "emotional explosion" of sorts, alot like what actually happens to a persons mind when they die in real life. Kinda the whole "life flashing before his eyes" type of inference.

I'm thinking what if the last thought he had was a frustrating one, that envisioned what it was like for Liu Kang to die on Raiden's watch? Flash-back to the Elder Kung Lao.....Just saying that -- THAT kind of thing would piss anybody off if they had the chance to come back and express themselves about it.

And then, as a consequence of the volatility in the process that resurrects a god, "all he'd want to do is get rid of all the threats like Shang Tsung and Quan Chi". So, it wouldn't be blind rage in that case, and it might make sense why we don't see the personalities of Shang Tsung and Quan Chi altered like Raidens is right now.

I think this taint thing, may have been a forth-coming of some self imposed aggravation....more, psychological than anything......and an "excuse" of sorts to act out in the way that he has now. My only question would then be....why wasn't he a blank slate once he reformed on Earth? Like Fujin said that he should have been.

Just a different perspective anyway.

=====

Another thing I really wish was fleshed out more about Raiden is how intimate this relationship with Shinnok was. One idea I had was that maybe Shinnok gave Raiden his staff for some reason in the past? (or something to that effect)

Their pairing would make more sense then, and I think it would deepen why these two have such a conflict with each other. Because if something like his staff (a symbol of any kind really) had actually been exchanged between these guys, it would add some purpose to why Raiden was the one who maybe had to defeat Shinnok so long ago.....and henceforth, give reasoning to the things you mentioned Xai, that maybe when Shinnok came back, there actually were some drudged up memories of the fallen Elder God.

*shrugs*

Hypothetical and Speculation I suppose.

===

In the future, no matter what I wanna see how Raiden moves away from this profound "mentor" role. We agree that it's getting pretty old that he must stay there. I've noticed that throughout the years, they keep making him "round everybody up" to go fight against some huge evil.

What I think would be a good change is if Raiden in his current state, is if he is merely attracted to a contest or situation that has someone in it that he desires to get rid of. That way, he could either be playable from the start....or a secret character for good reason. I've dealt with Raiden being not present in Mortal Kombat before, and I think putting some MK1 mystique back in-to the character would probably be welcome by his fanbase. Has to be specific, thorough, and purposeful though.

Also, I don't wanna see anymore proposals given to Raiden by other characters either. He's the leader of the entire Earth sooo, I think if anything, he should've been laying the law for others more obviously a long time ago. "This is what it is, this is what you're gonna do...or else" type stuff.

A side note here. I'd like them to use the corpse of Liu Kang more as a tool for Raiden seeking and destroying the enemies that he's after. There's really no threat to Raiden in doing things that way, and it adds an apparent methodical sort of shade to the character....almost militant in the objective.

In the end, I like that in an around about way....they have sorta taken him back to his roots in MK1. Something I cannot be mad about right now. I hope they don't squander that though. More realism and personality would only benefit this direction I feel cuz like you said, he's a pretty traight forward character.

This really volatile personality fits the electricity that he wields as a primary weapon, and I think they could do well to invest more of that in Raiden whether they end up growing him into this "bad guy" that everyone but me proposes....or this "very disturbed, falling good guy", like I propose.


===Other general stuff===

- I want more of his personality if, and or when they do him in another game. Maybe a peek at his plans to see how sinister and chalice they may be against the bad guys? Maybe give a sense of how careful Raiden has to be with using Liu's corpse? And also, what about an interaction with others that shows how anti-social he would've probably become since the taint? Maybe people don't know who it is...but he still doesn't care for the attention? That or, he could be more bold than he has been in the past. Showing up unannounced more often. Alot more...mmm..."strictly" goal oriented, and with a sort of "fear me" complex...ect.

- I want a realistic sense of how old this guy is. He should have some pretty clever shit up his sleeve if he's supposed to be millions of years old. This also plays to aesthetics too. We should be seeing alot more wild electricity tricks, and probably alot more bold things happening with his martial arts style considering his age. Right now he seems limited by "our standards", and that's not accurate for how old he's supposed to be.

- Capture "real lightning" better. Yea, it's an aesthetic, but they figured out fire and there are ways to capture the volatility of electricity better nowadays.
Helps everything right now with more realism. From special moves, to fatalities.

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Ah...I can see that.

Y'know though, the One Being seems like a cop-out to me too though. I don't think they need to make something more out of it than needs to be, but I do think a good, thorough explanation is in order.

I'd like to see something that not only explains the taint situation, but that also gives way to the possibility of things that he may actually be capable of on both sides of the good//evil spectrum.

Hm...I guess that's to say, "Make him more unpredictable", even though they shouldn't stray from the characters protective personality trait. I'd love to see how the MkTeam interprets the limit to which one would go to protect something precious to them. There's plenty of real world references. Holy crap, what if Raiden views the Earth like protecting a child? Imagine how intense a being that is supposedly omnipotent to a point, would be acting out right now. "The Passion of Raiden". haha...

I get carried away.

Regardless, one thing's for sure, I am really getting sick of this mentor role that they keep scapegoating Raiden with. I think that a good, natural shift for him right now with this taint element in there, would be to take him from the mentor, to a "General" type personality. Considering his ambitions.

Aaahuum, kinda like an intense Chess player who, manipulates things to his wish and benefit. For example, if he used Liu Kang in a more "probing-sentinel" kind of way. Probe to find out where the Tarkatans, Shokans, Black Dragon, Red Dragon, Tekunin, ect....were. Then like a trap, they attack who they know as an enemy; "Liu Kang". Zap, Raiden shows up and kills that group with the assistance of his drone.

You send the drone out to identify an opposition, and then, you show up and demolish a threat to both Earth, and your drone at the same time. I'd figure that with Raiden in this state that he's in, he'd get sick of seeking and destroying groups of enemies (plug for demolishing a few of these redundant or stale clans) after a while, and go for a big fish. Which could then get him in some real trouble, or caught.....


If he succeeded with a big fish, it could also give him the confidence boost he'd need to become an "evil god".

??

Remember, I'm not exactly opposed to it, I just want the shit to make sense. lol!

But I think from there, you figure out how to get rid of Liu Kangs Corpse logically, and you take Raiden up, or down. Up is "Evil Boss" at this point, and Down is Demoralization with an opportunity to become good again ("Redemption"). Either way though, I think it opens up alot of good plausible options for the character.

Both ways you don't frivolously make him evil, and you don't illogically kill the character off either.
--

Taint is tricky stuff at this point, but I tell you what, I wanna see some sparks fly, and some dramatic character pandering go down before they take him to whatever level is next.

I wanna see a Ruthless, Merciless, strangely Good God of thunder and lightning before they're done with the Taint situation.

Hm....Model him after Dexter Morgan {If you ask me, he kinda looks like "a Raiden" too actually} for the remainder of this taint situation. Maybe a tad more militant though.

Good guy for sure, insider for a very long time, but with an agenda that is sorta militantly executed by an urge to succeed the "processes" of his hierarchy. And in effort to secure stability, and security for his purposes. Both internal and external.

Where Raiden should differ from Dexter, should be how viciously he abuses the rules of his god-hood (because he's known them very well for the past eternity, he'd know how to abuse them easily). But he should do so in such a way that the majority of what he's doing is not exactly a violation, and so......nothing is exactly against the rules.

In the end, he should have to be pinned down to one or two fatal flaws in his execution...ect And hence, "caught" for what he did wrong.

Yea, that's a good god with taint to me...

I'm rambling now.

I'll come back later.

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I've personally always interpreted the term "Demon-Sorcerer" to imply not that he was born a demon, but that he has become one over time, either literally or perhaps just metaphorically, as a result of learning "demonic" black magics like soul stealing.

I dunno, I just think he makes a more interesting character with "humble beginnings" as an ordinary Earth man.
It also doesn't really make sense to me to say that Shang wanted to enter the tournament, but someone, either the monks or the gods, said he wasn't worthy. I don't think it works that way. With Liu Kang in MK1, the Shaolin needed to pick someone worthy because they could only send one to represent them. This is back when they hosted the tournament, though. It's not up to the monks who the best fighters in the world are, the gods expect them to just do their job and send out the invitations. With the fate of the world at stake, they should be happy to take anyone who can potentially defeat Outworld and prevent the world from being taken over anyway.
Personally, I figure he got in and maybe he cheated to win, or back then, the tournament was supposed to be non-lethal, but Shang killed one of his opponents, and that's how he got cursed. It would add a certain irony to the fact that the way he corrupted the tournament, once he took over, was by making the fights to-the-death.
I'd also like to throw out there that I have very distinct memories of reading about Shang being "banished to the Cobalt Mines of Shokan" after losing to Great Kung Lao, and that's how he met Goro, LONG before the MK Conquest TV series supposedly invented that plot point. It's not really relevant to anything, but, y'know, "How did Goro and Shang meet?" is interesting to some people, I'm sure.

Apologies for the double-post, but it's been a few weeks so I imagine it's alright. I was re-reading through the ol' Mythologies backstory and I noticed something apropos to Shang:



The key here is the term "free roaming sorcerer", which is a phrase you never see in the games anymore, but used to hear a lot around the MK4 era to describe Quan Chi...but I'd forgotten it applied to Shang Tsung too.

Mythologies defines the term thusly:



It's not worded this way specifically, but is it possible that being free-roaming also means that in the eyes of the gods, you have no home citizenship, explaining exactly how Shang bypassed the ol' Bo' Rai Cho rule and fought for Outworld in the tournament? (as in, he was free to pick his own side)

It makes slightly more sense than what we've been blindly assuming: that selling his soul to Kahn made him a citizen of Outworld.

Shang Tsung is my favorite current villain. First, this is how I view him:

- Place of Origin: Earth

- I like your reference to Darth Vader for Shang Tsung, in that he could've been Earths representative in Mortal Kombat at one point. I also like the possible resolution to his curse being that either the monks, or especially the gods could see that he had a chance of letting corruption consume him.

You'd see Raiden or someone explain it as though it's just a crap-shoot once it gets to that point from person to person. Some people succumb, some people don't. But it depends on how strong the spirit is in a person, at the time they'd need to make that crucial decision for themselves. Shang Tsung just went left instead of right, and end it at that. I'd feel like it was an acceptable "you never know" situation then.

You know how athletes aren't supposed to have sex the night before performing? Well, haha, Shang could've indulged when he wasn't supposed to and it caused him to react abnormally to a over stressful situation in his fighting. Or maybe it was a family issue that made him less than focused before he lost his final Mortal Kombat appearance. Or maybe...like Razor is saying here, one of these distractions made him a more vicious fighter that time, and although he won his final Mortal Kombat appearance, he's the one that started the actual killing in Mortal Kombat contests. Something fun they could possibly toy with in a FMV second or two.

- On his powers, I'd love to see who taught him his first type of sorcery. Though I don't think it's really that important to actually see this individual, I think it's important to establish what kind of teacher he had, in order to be able to tell where he went wrong when he was cursed by the gods. Just something simple.

If I can pull from the non-canon for a second as well, I liked how they handled this issue in the T.V. series with Master Cho. Because it also gave Master Cho an interesting quality in that he also had the power to steal souls. Just something simple though.

Just as well, I like the idea of him early in his life (maybe even child-hood) just noticing that he had a special connection to the world around him, but needed a teacher in order to mature an art that he may have been blessed with from birth. Influences, teachings, understandings, and usage determine how people turn evil. Maybe sheltering him from violence as an adolescent, had a reverse affect that made him attracted to violence, and when it was time to showcase something he could no doubt do...he took the opportunity instead of passing on it. Then the dominoes just start falling against him, and in a big way.

That may be too much psychology but, all I'm getting at, is that once they depreciated his position on the bad guy hierarchy, they should have fleshed his past out gradually and fully. Now, since we know a good amount about him....I wanna know everything. Especially because he's the flashy-type bad guy on the roster and the main opposition to Liu Kang.

-

I think that it's from there that we can start putting together how and why his ambitions get out of hand, and why and how his power status goes up in the wrong direction. You see, the way I put it together from the "big bad decision", is that he was then banished and cursed. Take maybe Raiden and have him be the usher of Shang Tsungs punishment....regrettably though, so that Shang Tsung has a chance to misinterpret a "final message" from Raiden.

Which then, while he wallows in some type of self pity, he starts to understand that all that he knows will die before he could possibly wish to return to any type of normality. Which fuels a hatred towards the gods because, all Shang Tsung understands is that; "I won, but they punished me. How stupid is that?!!". I've known people like that in my life that just-don't-get-it.

I'd wager that he'd feel like as an old man now, he can't just go back home. But he does anyway, and is viciously rejected because all the things he surrounded himself with to begin with, were superficial. Including any women and friends. They all reject him and that fuels a greater hatred for the gods, and as an additive, he stops "completely" trusting anyone from there on.

From there, I like the idea of him using his necromancy for the wrong reason, for the first time. Have some bit about him having contact with voodooism, and how they are supposed to be able to teleport (voodoo doctors are rumored to be able to talk to the dead, and with extreme concentration//meditation, access portals//traverse space and time. Yet rarely, and commonly HAVE TO know an "open sesame code [3:20sec]". )...ect. Which would lead him to Outworld. From Outworld, I'd have him be pretty naive at first. He'd probably go there with the intent of strengthening his powers simply because he doesn't have to care about anything or anyone on that whole planet.

So, while he's doing this, he masters his initial form of sorcery. He's probably left alone long enough to finally be able to create the Greatest Forms of Illusions, Greatest Form of Chi blast and thinks he's done. Well no, from there I'd have him interact with like, a party of Shao Kahns henchmen somehow, and have Shang Tsung just....eradicate them.

Of course now, this gets Shao Kahns attention, Shang Tsung is eventually caught and brought in, and enter MK1. "In exchange for your soul and eternal servitude, I'll give you eternal youth, powers, and teach you some new tricks.

Tah dah... but that's one model, one example of how I think he could progress into the bad guy he is now.


=====

- Something else I wanted to bring up about Shang Tsungs personality that always kinda made me wonder is that, I think he should be a good talker. He should have a charisma about him that is almost irresistible. Which could help define why Shao Kahn keeps giving this guy chances, and why other bad guys like Quan Chi find tolerance for him outside a simple means to a goal.

I think he should've always also been a snake of the tongue. Being able to convince people that what he is suggesting, is a very good idea for whatever reason. And making sure that the idea that he proposes, has to involve him living through it, or getting more power for it somehow. I think it panders to the character more...yea. You'd have to have as many tricks as possible up your sleeve in order to be able to avoid death as well as Shang Tsung has over the years.

===
I'll skip over what's current for now and say....

- In the future, I'd like to see him struggle, ALOT. I'm talking an incredible insight into what makes a current Shang Tsung tick. I want a really grimy insight too. Something that sees him at the brink of death, and withering as we speak.

Having him scape and crawl through wet muddy despair is where it's at. I feel like that way his ascension to full strength and youth again would be most appreciated. Oh, I'd have him syphoning the life out of rats (literally), other small animals, and everything just to stay alive for a just a while longer. Really pitiful "Sandman from Spiderman 3" moments for Shang Tsung.

Have someone give him mercy finally, and Shang Tsung just sucks all the life out of the poor person. Then when he stands on his own two feet again, we should be able to just feel how resentful he is towards whoever is responsible for putting him in that situation.


Yea....

Ah, the Cobalt Mines of Shokan. This came from the also non-canon "Mortal Kombat: The Journey Begins". I was very surprised to see the cobalt mines mentioned in MK Conquest and yet again in the MK4 comic.

Also -- anyone remember the GamePro issue all about MKII that shows the John Tobias concept art drawing of Shang Tsung in his "true" form? I suppose we could dismiss it as non-canon, but somehow it really seems to fit him.



P.S. As far as I know, the term "free-roaming sorcerer" has applied only to Quan Chi, never to Shang Tsung. This is why he needed Shao Kahn to restore his youth to him in MKII, so that he could traverse the realms and "fool the gods". He was unable to do it of his own accord, not being a "free-roaming sorcerer" and all. This is my interpretation based on the MKII comic.

Well it's right there in my quote from Mythologies. It does say Kahn is the one who made him so, but Shang's a free-roamer nonetheless.

"Shang Tsung's essence was created on Earth. He obtained his ability as a free roaming sorcerer by assisting Shao Kahn who was at the brink of taking the Earth for his own through Mortal Kombat."

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Hey XiahouDun84. It's good to see a new analysis from you and that it's one of Shao Kahn. I haven't really been posting much these days. I have felt a bit of a detachment from the series, but I'm still a fan of it. If only Mortal Kombat can truly be revitalized....But of course, that's wishful thinking....

Anyway, you're pretty much spot on with your analysis. I want to add that Shao Kahn also has parallels to Darth Vader from Star Wars and Darkseid from DC. I think that the parallel with Darth Vader is more so there in the later games when we start to learn bits about his past. Then we have parallels with Darkseid, which I think are greater, especially considering MK vs. DC.

If I remember correctly, Darkseid was once someone known as Prince Uxas who took the power of the Omega Force and changed his name. It's interesting that both characters both have god-like strength as well as that ego. It's also interesting that they both sort of have that thing for certain women since Darkseid has a thing for Wonder Woman.

I think you had said in a previous analysis (I think it was the Quan Chi analysis.) something along the lines of that when it comes to antagonists, the more that you keep going with them, you'll get to that point where you delve into their past. That is to say I'm referring to villains that have that "absolute" quality to them, which someone like Quan Chi has. And by the way, I do agree that a character like him should stay as that type of villain. Granted, we got slight bits about his past in which he might be as old as the Netherrealm and that he used to be a type of Oni demon.

Back to Shao Kahn, I can see what you're saying about the concept of him not being defeated in MK2 is better. I think that the ambiguity of just how MK2 ended is one of the flaws about its overall story. You would think that there'd be more details that would be explained in MK3.

But then again, it was the Tobias era in which stories weren't as in-depth as they've come to be. I too don't like the way they did his return in MK: Deception. In addition, I feel that his return to power in MK: Armageddon was too quick, even if he may not have full control over Outworld.

You brought up how Shao Kahn's seeming affection for particular women is contradictory to his love for power and violence. Maybe he is meant to be a character that has certain contradictory characteristics about him. For example, while he sees others as inferior, he still recognizes the use of people such as Shang Tsung.

Being a bit of a Transformers fan and watching Transformers: Animated, I can definitely see that Megatron/Starscream type of relationship. I could even see parallels between Shao Kahn and the Animated version of Megatron as they are both powerful, intimidating, and skilled warriors who are also very cunning, deceptive, and tactical. I think that with Shao Kahn's ego lies in that sort of mentality that he wouldn't want to show weakness and defeat, even if he is weakened.

Getting to some of the things you said about his relationships with other characters, you first mentioned Raiden. From what I gather, the similarity between the two seems to only be explained (so far) that he was an adviser. I also have to wonder about the stuff with Outworld's gods. Just what the hell happened to them, and did Shao Kahn have some connection to them?

Briefly getting to Shang Tsung, I think that considering the way Shao Kahn was in MK: Shaolin Monks (even though I know you don't consider that game as being canon), it's like there is that sense of apathy towards Shang Tsung. He knew what Shang Tsung was up to yet didn't really do anything about it.

About Kitana and Sindel, it does seem like he has a "thing" for them. It would certainly add depth to his character and make him more interesting. In a way, it's sort of like how Ares has a thing for Xena despite being in conflict with her.

The stuff with Liu Kang can be seen as very speculative. The big problem lies within the lack of details. Maybe if they did an adventure game that explored MK3's story (which they'll almost definitely butcher, I might add...), we could get something between the two, most particularly when they actually fight each other.

When it comes to Kano, I think Shao Kahn would have that sense of distrust for him due to his backstabbing nature. But yeah, I could see him appreciating Kano's resourcefulness. Afterall, Kano knows how to use Earth's weaponry, and he turned out to be a capable general.

The whole Shao Kahn/Reiko thing is a bit of a "head shaker", in my opinion. Considering that Shao Kahn likes Reiko's brutality and that Reiko seems to also be the strategist, maybe there is that sense of kinship. Their relationship probably won't be explored or that there probably won't be much to it aside from what we know. Still, it would be sort of interesting if Reiko was that surrogate son type person to him. I don't know...

With Onaga, maybe he represented a kind of totalitarian rule, something that Shao Kahn wanted to (and did) break from. There could have been exploration with Onaga's backstory, but so much for that.

Overall, given the change of Shao Kahn's status as a villain, it would be great to see a backstory game focused on him. Just what the hell is he? How exactly did he become the man he is today? How does he truly feel when it comes to people like Kitana and Sindel? Maybe a long time ago, when he was Onaga's adviser, Shao Kahn had a lover whom he was attached to. Perhaps in some way, Sindel was that sort of replacement. But who knows?

But yeah, I'll try to go through your whole thread sometime. There are quite a few characters I didn't get to respond to and maybe even a couple that I haven't read.

Pretty sure that was a silly invention of that old-ass Superfriends cartoon. God, is there any character's rep that show didn't damage?

In the comics (at least the modern ones), Darkseid is the God of Evil. He doesn't have a personality, per say, because he's not a person. He's more like a living idea, the personification of a concept. He doesn't feel physical needs like lust or positive emotions like love. He seeks to eradicate all free will and sees other living beings as objects, tools, and extensions of his self as much as his own hands are. To Darkseid, there can be no one else but Darkseid, so all sex would be masturbation.

Anyway, I can't tell you how nice it is to see posts in this topic for once. Honestly, I haven't lost my interest in MK, but I damn sure have lost my interest in being a member of MK's fandom. I always said Xiahou was one of the only guys here I felt like I could relate to and discuss the storyline with as a real peer, and it's only getting worse. Every time I so much as glance at the Future Games Discussion board and see how awful the things that the masses want are, I start feeling like Darkseid's got the right goddamn idea about that "get rid of free thought" thing.

I hope to god Boon and co. don't read that stuff. Getting a shitty Goro resurrection instead of Kintaro in Deception because of "fan demand" was bad enough, but my god, the way things have gotten now? It makes me hope the franchise really IS dead.