I don't know what the hype was like in Belarus, but after the attention it got pre-release elsewhere (in Europe), I thought it was such a tragic fizzler.

Props for MKSM for doing it a little bit better.
Even with six years on T'ai Fu, you'd never want to presume too much.

EDIT: You should retract your retraction. Androgyny anime enthusiasts and furries are wide-eyed, rubber necked cousins.

And which one would that be?

All of them.

Tobais coming back wont fix anything folks, The problems that plague Mortal Kombat now are the same problems that plagued the series when Tobias was on board: reused character designs, broken gameplay, and retcon abuse. Tobias was apart of the worst entry in this series: Mortal Kombat 4 which kills any credibility the man has in my book. How anybody can defend MK4 or even claim that MK4 is better than MKDA on any level boggles my mind.

I like MK4 more than MK3. I'll easily take Reiko, Fujin, Quan Chi, and Tanya over Nightwolf, Kabal, Stryker, and Sindel.

And don't get me wrong, I actually somewhat like Kabal. I just like the MK4 characters more.

Furthermore, Mick, your claims that a tiger-man COULD have been scary and violent, just because Reptile is scary and violent, probably sound good to you inside your head...but unfortunately for you and your hypotheticals, I've actually SEEN the concept art. No matter how scary you say it COULD have been, what Tobias designed was NOT just like Reptile. What it was like, is a goddamn cartoon character out of a Disney movie. Put a karate gi on one of the characters from Kung Fu Panda, and whaddya know? You've got the original Kintaro design.

It was the same fur-faggotry that I accidentally find on DeviantArt every time I do a search for ANYTHING. You can believe that would have been better than another Shokan if you like, but just because everyone's allowed to have their own opinion doesn't mean your opinion isn't awful.

That depends on how you look at it, most of MK3's new additions were at least original while most of MK4s new additions just reused already established character concepts:

Tanya- Yellow pallet swap female ninja, nothing new

Quan Chi- evil sorcerer that exploits the Mortal Kombat tournament for his own gain, nothing new.

Fujin- Another elemental god, nothing new

Kai- Another damn Shaolin monk, nothing new

Usually a "furthermore" follows up on the previous statement.

Furthermore, Reptile was one of the characters I actually didn't mention.

A little less furthermore and a left at Albuquerque, it's just absurd to rest the success of such a simple concept exclusively on previous examples, which, for the most part, contradict those doubts.

Further than any furthermore, he could probably use something else to shield himself from the urine.




Wait, for a second I thought I was in another stupid conversation.
Tekken is a joke! Liu Kang confirmed! Go back to your bridge, troll doll!
Why would we possibly even consider adding new, diverse elements to the cast, when we can keep rolling out variations on the same things, over and over? Lord knows it's been an artistic triumph, so far!

I think you should know, Mick...and I'm not trying to be insulting when I say this...your attempts at clever wordsmithing make your posts harder to read, not funny. And I say that as someone who actually comprehends and writes in proper English despite the fact that he's on the internet.

What I'm saying is, I can read what you're writing...It's just that it comes off as overly-wordy pretentious douchebaggery. Y'know, like you're trying too hard. And the defensive signature isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card, either. Just because you claim to be well-spoken doesn't mean you can get away with making a tossed salad with a thesaurus in every post.

As for this...



It's funny how despite being less original, all those characters (except perhaps Kai) are more interesting and have costumes that aren't eyesores, compared to the likes of Sindel and Nightwolf...at least in my opinion.

And just for the record, Tanya WAS something new when she was introduced. She was the first MK female to overtly use sex appeal and seduction as a weapon. She didn't just dress sexy like all the other girls, she had a move and fatality that were sexually suggestive and part of her character arc involved using her feminine wiles to mislead her rival Kitana's boyfriend.

Granted all of that personality went bye-bye in Deception. (Apparently it was transplanted to Mileena...as if she needed the help) But the point remains that when Tanya first appeared, she had something interesting going for her, even if she no longer has it today.

And that's more than I can say for poor, bland, Nightwolf, the indian who inexplicably wears spandex. (and may very well be less original than a palette swap. Ever heard of T. Hawk or Chief Thunder?)

... You kinda contradicted yourself in amongst all the inflections. Is this really about me, or latent father issues? I'm not sure this is really my field...

Does this mean we can all agree it's thoroughly absurd to make baseless, blanket dismissals of the viability of animal-based characters?

I guess I'm not sure because I got distracted by MK4's depthy development of Tanya as a fresh new character full of complex motivations and history. Not that it's entirely irrelevant! I mean, I'm sure Tanya's deceitful, weasely survival tactics were in part due to that very history! Her stern upbringing as an ambassador's daughter, and all. I'm sure it didn't do any favours for her loyalty to the sexier, smarter, super-cooler Kitana, either.

I'll try to focus more, next time! Promise!



... Also, I'm pretty sure Alburquerque isn't in a thesaurus. That would probably be an Atlas... Or a road map, depending on your location and prediliction, preference, desire, selection.

Look at this, look at what you're doing. "in amongst"? That can't be right. "Inflection"? How many people on Earth are aware that word has another definition besides "tone of voice"?

C'mon, man. Anyone can see you only talk like that to sound smart. Your posts are half college essay, half bad jokes. Nobody speaks like that in real life...unless they've got Autism.
I know you like to talk down to everyone else on the boards, I've caught more than a few instances of you berating MK fans for liking costume designs that you compared to the "x-treme" Rob Liefield comics of the 90's. But why? What do you gain from putting on the "intellectually superior" act? Self-esteem? Or can you just not help being a bit of a jerk?
To be honest, your own taste in character design isn't particularly well thought out. How many times have you complained that Scorpion and Sub-Zero look too similar, despite the fact that, frankly, they don't look much the same at all in this game? And does that whole "originality" thing work both ways? How do you feel about multiple Flashes and Green Lanterns? (Bonus question: Which is less original, a whole corps of guys with the same costume and powers spread across the universe, or Kyle Rayner being the only one of his kind...just like every other superhero on Earth?)

Nightwolf may not be the most original character when it comes to fighting games, but when it comes to mortal kombat, he was quite original, he and Sindel weren't token pallet swaps, those "eyesores" were more visually interesting than any character in MK4 at least in my opinion, but you're a fan of MK4, I am not so we are going to go in circles on this one. I personally feel that MK4 is the most halfassed entry in this series to date (Armageddon being a close second.) Everything about that game was from storyline to gameplay was executed poorly and to this day is still the only version I won't go back and play.

I must disagree with you.

MK4, IMO, was the greatest MK game of its time. It introduced a whole new view of MK. Pivoting came into play, bone-breakers as well. Team, Practice and Endurance modes were first introduced there, too. For the first time, we were truly able to use weapons, and not just the character's weapon, but the opponet's as well. We could also use items lying around in the arena, making the arenas highly interactive for the first time. Video endings were perhaps the best part of that game. Though the graphics were poor, the gameplay and story were great. The only problems I ever had with the game was that Shinnok was way too easy to beat, and that there were only two women. Other than that, the game was great. There are so many things from the game that I wish would return.

MK4 is still, to this day, my favorite video game.

The core gameplay of MK4 is absolute crap, They dumbed down MK3s combo system and the weapons and arena Items are next to useless. Tag and endurance modes were nice additions but if the fighting mechanics suck, then the extra modes are irrelevant. The FMV endings would have been a nice touch if the dialogue wasnt so laughably bad, Subby's " Not the Lin Quei and not you" line still makes me cringe to this day.

Someone had to say it.

My hat goes off to you,old chap.

If anything,I gotta give you props for standing up to defend MK4. Not a whole lot of people do that these days,especially if you're talking literate,well-informed people. If I had to say some kind words about it,I'd say it was the most genuinely evil and dark entry in the entire series thus far (MKMSZ nonwithstanding). The music was mindblowing,and served to greatly enhance the atmosphere.

Overall,despite it being less than stellar,there were many other small things that I liked about it.

Oh,and despite the endings being mostly corny and laughable,a couple of them (Reptile's and Quan Chi's) are actually so fucking awesomely badass that they easily pick up the slack for the others. Not to mention that it was still a first attempt at fully-voiced FMV ending cutscenes in an MK game.

Umm, I don't see anything wrong with animal-man characters. Even though I prefer Kintaros result over the concept, I like the idea of them in fact.

And yea, I know what a furry is, but that idea just registers as "silly shit" to me. lol There's a difference anyway. I don't get the big fuss over them even then though...haha, it's just too silly to be "mad" at//upset about iMo.

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I think he was the visionary on the team at the time actually. The influence he had on Mortal Kombat was enough to inspire 7-8yrs('91-'99) of nostalgic games, and still quite a bit of the current fan-base is the way I look at it. Mk1-4 are still the games that people compare these newest games to, and for the most part, there's a disappointment for the newer games by that comparison. Supposed to be that we note what got better as a result of the switch to 3D games. 3D is supposed to be the "advancement", y'know? But, instead I see more people comparing how more fun the older ones were, in comparison to the newer ones. Newer ones loose, majority rules.
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People remember great ideas, and I think alot of us are still paying for the idea of the Mortal Kombat that was, to come back again. Countless comments and discussions, all based around the "potential of MK if it would just ___ like the older games", is the thing I'm talking about. The missing link is Tobias in that respect, and iMo.

I mean, of course we'd have to account for newer technology, and overall newer methods of execution taking a tole on the potential of the game in real-time, but I think his influence on the game that he helped start would yield a very similar result as before (plus, he's had a good long break from MK expression). So, though vision isn't prohibited by technology (ever played a game, and was like: "I get the idea, but the game sucks?), method has to be fresh, good, and new.

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I could see that second point too, administratively. I mean, you couldn't just plug him back into the same spot that he was in before. It'd bump someone else who deserves the spot. Also, titles and jobs could've changed around to become more specific now.

I think he fits in with the conceptual stages of the games too, but he was the lead on Tao Fang. So he's capable....Maybe somewhere close to Beran in the art direction of the game is a proper fit. I wouldn't have him write for the characters much, but I would leave him to advise//oversee each character, and overall games designs.

Something wrong with Bloody Roar?

Actually, it's a reference to placing a different interpretive meaning on what's actually being said. I can't say I was actually aware it was part of the lost languages of the ancient world, but then, I'm about as seriously interested in your single-white-female preoccupation with my pretty goodlyest English, as I am with anyone's regular mistakes.
I've got much bigger interests, like getting boxer shorts from K-mart!!!


Continuing the total lack of context!
I could probably give you a reasonable account of the ins and outs of how this is a stupid comparison, but I wouldn't want to offend anyone with any competent reference and explanation.

Suffice to say, if you go back and check your files, you'll note, among other things, I don't complain about the two Sub-Zeros for very similar reasons to the multiple Flashs.
Bizzarely enough, the iconography of a law enforcement agency doesn't seem to bother me as much as two bitter rival organizations dressing alike, either. I'm just wacky like that!


Oh yeah! This is progress!


It's undeniable that Tobias and the original team laid enough ground work there to create something that worked for the restrictions of the time, and gave enough to inspire people's imaginations.

At the risk of going back to the thread's original topic; that really isn't an especially positive reflection on Tobias, though. That's giving him an awful lot of credit for the things that aren't there, which isn't fair, especially when weighing that against the measure of content his successor has put forward.
Particularly as the initial point really seems to be more about debunking the myth that Tobias can somehow turn the franchise to gold with a mere touch. A myth that, despite some acknowledgment, is completely baseless.

As for the nostalgia thing... Well... RazorRamon brought up autism...

Other than the fact that it sucks and nobody plays it?

Not off the top of my head, no.

Regarding Mick...

You really think the pictures of Scorpion and Sub-Zero you just posted look alike? Really? I don't even know what to say to that. I think the only answer, when faced with such blind, unwavering stupidity is to give up.

I usually think the same thing. Only, I know the difference between looking alike, and being identical.

Full credit, one is yellow, and one is blue!

The suits look pretty different actually. It must be the masks. I'm sure it is.

Wha?! What things that aren't there? The only thing I mentioned that Tobias is personally mentioned for, is blood being in the games. There's an old behind the scenes video that Boon makes account of that decision.

My opinion starts where I believe that his influence, changes the direction of the overall game. Like, when Beran and say, Goskie are designing the look of the arenas and such.

I'd imagine, that as the co-creators during that time, Boon & or Tobias come through and give them a idea of where or what to tweak, so that it matches up better with the idea they're trying to accomplish for the overall game.

That's not imaginary man. That's the job, in addition to everyones core assignments.

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I don't think Tobias is like some messiah or something, but I do think he has the fan interpretation of the game in-mind going in. It's just inherent iMo cuz I'm alot like that (I just see what people like or want really easily). Hell, most of the influence he had on the games, they can't really seem to get away from. The asian backdrops, blood and gore, most of, if not all the early designs for the characters, and god forbid I forget all the cursed ninjas. Can't get far enough away from that stuff. haha..But that's basically the game if I was being close minded about it.

====

Another thing, how is giving the guy half the credit for the creation of the early games a negative? At least half of MK1-MKG, he is idealistically, responsible for. Regardless of the specific job he did, it was half his idea to create the thing, and half Boons....everybody else contributed to make the thing something sellable. And anyway the games were more successful for that time. Their hasn't been a *boom* like it since for them.

why, would you say?
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I guess I just don't understand the "dis" on him. And no, not that I discredit the current team either. They just haven't produced as much without Tobias, as they did with him in there. They haven't produced a "stickie" without him yet.... Well, maybe MKSM, but they didn't do that apparently.

With Tobias:

MK1
MK2
MK3
UMK3
MKT
MK:SZ Mythologies
MK4
MKG

Couple mis-fires, but most of them nailed it.

Without Tobias:

MKDA
MKD
MKSM
MKA
and now, MKvsDC

Maybe MKDA & MKSM nailed it, but they all sold well.
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Why is it that those old games are still being played more than the latest 3 or so, if it wasn't for "another influence" on the games that isn't there right now?

Tobias. He's not Midas, but I'm pretty sure he's the influence that's missing.

Apparently I keep making the mistake of thinking the discussion is/was about Tobias' influence as the writer...

Was he the writer? I was more concerned about his influence on the whole "feel" of MK. The earlier ones seemed more dark and serious, but all the ones after he left seemed like silly deviations into self-parody.

If you ask me, MK seems to have lost most of its edge since he left.

Another thing to note: I seem to remember hearing somewhere that a lot of DA's storyline was already laid out by Tobias before he left. Not sure where this came from or if there's any truth to it.

Oh,please do! Please,offend us with the abyss of your intellect. Don't hold back.

Otherwise,you run the risk of being called a pretentious prick who throws around vaguely worded insults instead of actually backing up his own arguments.

Not that I would think of doing that,of course.



I can't handle the fail anymore. It hurts physically.

TRIVIA TIEM

-The Shirai Ryu was originally formed as a splinter group of the Lin Kuei. They adopted similar uniforms,but changed the color to yellow as a way of taunting the Lin Kuei. If you're still slowpoking,I'll spell it out for you:

T H A T

I S

T H E

J O K E

-Moreover,as you've so graciously pointed out,they are two rival organizations involved in exactly the same line of work - assassinations and sabotage. Why in the name of everloving fuck SHOULDN'T they dress alike? That's not even obscure trivia knowledge,that's common fucking sense.

-I'm sick and tired of saying this,but the palette swaps have ceased to be an issue since MK4. And good job there on providing the two images of Scorpion and Sub-Zero that barely look anything alike.

In b4 THEY BOTH WEAR MASKS SHIRTS AND PANTS SO THEY ARE IDENTIACAL DURR HURR HURR!1!11

See? We do agree!