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Mick-Lucifer
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03/08/2009 01:14 AM (UTC)
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Mortalman Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
if MK goes or gets bought over by foreign companies that means that's bad for our economy....and our gaming industry.

Don't change the subject all of a sudden, because you don't have a valid argument. That wasn't a point of the discussion.

I'm pretty sure MK is a major factor in economic stimulus packages being proposed by Baraka Obama. And everyone who didn't buy MKvsDC will be tried for treason immediately!!!
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mkflegend
03/08/2009 01:21 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Mortalman Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
if MK goes or gets bought over by foreign companies that means that's bad for our economy....and our gaming industry.

Don't change the subject all of a sudden, because you don't have a valid argument. That wasn't a point of the discussion.

I'm pretty sure MK is a major factor in economic stimulus packages being proposed by Baraka Obama. And everyone who didn't buy MKvsDC will be tried for treason immediately!!!


No, but when US products are bought, no matter what games, cars it helps your economy in case you're unaware.

Mock my patriotism all you wish, MK has always been apart of american culture in the world of video games since the first one.



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Mortalman
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Death is the only way out...
03/08/2009 01:31 AM (UTC)
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mkflegend Wrote:
And come on dude, humor me. SF doesn't look animeish remotely pr PGish? In comparison to MK it looks very kiddy....yet you're trying to accuse me of ignorance.

Now WTF? You were saying something about "Techmo" being anime company and now you're talking about SF. I won't say what looks kiddy here.

And the problem is you don't provide reasonable arguments to the discussion, but instead you just ingore people's ones or simply change the subject. But I really don't care, because I've seen you doing it for years and it doesn't look like you're going to change that attitude anytime soon. Did that humor you? I hope so.

mkflegend Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Mortalman Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
if MK goes or gets bought over by foreign companies that means that's bad for our economy....and our gaming industry.

Don't change the subject all of a sudden, because you don't have a valid argument. That wasn't a point of the discussion.

I'm pretty sure MK is a major factor in economic stimulus packages being proposed by Baraka Obama. And everyone who didn't buy MKvsDC will be tried for treason immediately!!!

No, but when US products are bought, no matter what games, cars it helps your economy in case you're unaware.
Mock my patriotism all you wish, MK has always been apart of american culture in the world of video games since the first one.

Man, if you think that's patriotism, then may God bless America!
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mkflegend
03/08/2009 01:37 AM (UTC)
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Mortalman Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
And come on dude, humor me. SF doesn't look animeish remotely pr PGish? In comparison to MK it looks very kiddy....yet you're trying to accuse me of ignorance.

Now WTF? You were saying something about "Techmo" being anime company and now you're talking about SF. I won't say what looks kiddy here.

And the problem is you don't provide reasonable arguments to the discussion, but instead you just ingore people's ones or simply change the subject. But I really don't care, because I've seen you doing it for years and it doesn't look like you're going to change that attitude anytime soon. Did that humor you? I hope so.

mkflegend Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Mortalman Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
if MK goes or gets bought over by foreign companies that means that's bad for our economy....and our gaming industry.

Don't change the subject all of a sudden, because you don't have a valid argument. That wasn't a point of the discussion.

I'm pretty sure MK is a major factor in economic stimulus packages being proposed by Baraka Obama. And everyone who didn't buy MKvsDC will be tried for treason immediately!!!

No, but when US products are bought, no matter what games, cars it helps your economy in case you're unaware.
Mock my patriotism all you wish, MK has always been apart of american culture in the world of video games since the first one.

Man, if you think that's patriotism, then may God bless America!


It's not NEARLY as important as supporting your troops...but it's pure common sense to know that usa made products selling helps.

I disagree, I've posted my views you just disagreed and lecture me about "opinions" and why you feel MK selling out foreign isn't bad.

I'm referring to SF and Capcom since you just brough it up. What are you reading? A post I've made 4 or 5 posts ago? lol
Why does anyone even bother to have a debate with wtflegend anymore? Seriously, you're better off agruing with a pen, it'll have more points than he'll ever be able to make (no need for proof, just look at his latest posts).
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Mortalman
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03/08/2009 02:05 AM (UTC)
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mkflegend Wrote:
It's not NEARLY as important as supporting your troops...but it's pure common sense to know that usa made products selling helps.
I disagree, I've posted my views you just disagreed and lecture me about "opinions" and why you feel MK selling out foreign isn't bad.
I'm referring to SF and Capcom since you just brough it up. What are you reading? A post I've made 4 or 5 posts ago? lol

And yet you're doing it again... OK, I seriously feel it's a waste of time, but I will try to answer.

You were the one who brought the "matter of opinion" thing and you were refering to Tecmo, but once again changed that to SF and Capcom. But that's not important. The point was that ignorant speech about "anime company".

And what are YOU reading? Or should I say are you reading at all? BTW, "lol" doesn't add to the argument's validity.
Alpha_Q_Up_Is_Back Wrote:
Why does anyone even bother to have a debate with wtflegend anymore?

I was asking this myself...
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Mick-Lucifer
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03/08/2009 02:09 AM (UTC)
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Alpha_Q_Up_Is_Back Wrote:
Why does anyone even bother to have a debate with wtflegend anymore?

The hilariously stupid quotes?
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mkflegend
03/08/2009 03:17 AM (UTC)
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Yeah mick, lots of stupidity going on of late especially with certain comic book buffs when it comes to MK....
Alpha_Q_Up_Is_Back Wrote:
Why does anyone even bother to have a debate with MKFlegend anymore? Seriously, you're better off agruing with a pen, it'll have more points than he'll ever be able to make (no need for proof, just look at his latest posts).


agruing? lol time to go back to school mr. I think I'm so cool I'll spell "Alpha_Q_Up" and then "Is_Back" lol....real original.

Ohh more points ha, ha wow dude seriously I don't know what's more pathetic your insults or attempt at a original username.sleep

Ahh, it's no wonder I hardly come here anymore because of the same typical MKO dopes...

Alpha_Q_Up_Is_Back Wrote:
Why does anyone even bother to have a debate with MKFlegend anymore? Seriously, you're better off agruing with a pen, it'll have more points than he'll ever be able to make (no need for proof, just look at his latest posts).


agruing? lol time to go back to school mr. I think I'm so cool I'll spell "Alpha_Q_Up" and then "Is_Back" lol....real original.

Ohh more points ha, ha wow dude seriously I don't know what's more pathetic your insults or attempt at a original username.sleep

Ahh, it's no wonder I hardly come here anymore because of the same typical MKO dopes...


Mortalman Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
It's not NEARLY as important as supporting your troops...but it's pure common sense to know that usa made products selling helps.
I disagree, I've posted my views you just disagreed and lecture me about "opinions" and why you feel MK selling out foreign isn't bad.
I'm referring to SF and Capcom since you just brough it up. What are you reading? A post I've made 4 or 5 posts ago? lol

And yet you're doing it again... OK, I seriously feel it's a waste of time, but I will try to answer.

You were the one you brought the "matter of opinion" thing and you were refering to Tecmo, but once again change that to SF and Capcom. But that's not important. The point was that ignorant speech about "anime company".

And what are YOU reading? Or should I say are you reading at all? BTW, "lol" doesn't add to the argument's validity.
Alpha_Q_Up_Is_Back Wrote:
Why does anyone even bother to have a debate with wtflegend anymore?

I was asking this myself...
Good god, I was referring to the STYLE which is animeish...because Capcom implements that Japanese anime style as oppose to MK's more darker, serious style. Forget it, at least you somewhat contribute to threads unlike mr. alpha can't spell over there...either way no japanese company will be buying MK so I suppose I shouldn't be concerned but just in case you're wondering there are clearly lots of other users both on here and the MKDC forums who happen to agree with me but hey like I care. This is MKO, the world of ignorance when it comes to MK....
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Mortalman
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03/08/2009 04:30 AM (UTC)
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mkflegend Wrote:
Good god, I was referring to the STYLE which is animeish...because Capcom implements that Japanese anime style as oppose to MK's more darker, serious style.

I know you were refering to the style. But that doesn't change the fact that calling Capcom and Tecmo an "anime company" making "anime-ish games" is simple ignorance.

No offence, seriously, but you're one of the most biased and prejudiced users here (if not the first). And don't even try to say it isn't true, because you've been giving us hundreds of examples on many occasions for years, talking about Japanese companies, Japanese fighting games
(or J-games in general) and about Sony (mainly PlayStations) being total garbage. That last one is classic. You even have "PS2 - Utter crap!" in your profile...

Once again, don't even try to say it was a joke or that many people have similar things in their profiles (it's highly probable that you will say something like that with a possible "lol" at the end), because there are numerous examples of such "jokes" of yours.


mkflegend Wrote:
either way no japanese company will be buying MK

Says who?


mkflegend Wrote:
there are clearly lots of other users both on here and the MKDC forums who happen to agree with me but hey like I care.

It clearly looks like you really do care.


mkflegend Wrote:
This is MKO, the world of ignorance when it comes to MK....

You talking about ignorance... That's charming.
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QueenAhnka
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03/08/2009 05:19 AM (UTC)
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I hope the MK team stays with it! I mean if they don't then MK is REALLY going to go down the tubes. Hopefully if Midway sells it they'll sell it to a companey who'll love MK just as much as they do. I just can't imagine MK in anybody's hands besides the MK team's and I don't want too :( The new team probably won't even LISTEN to us.
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ThePredator151
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03/08/2009 05:32 AM (UTC)
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This is pretty entertaining guys, but we are getting off topic. Considering nobody here is new, I know I don't need to be a dickhead about it. Lets just wind the thing down, yea?

Thx.

--

I agree with MKF that I wouldn't be comfortable with a foreign company as parent to MK. But that's only if that parent company influenced MK in the same ways that they already make some of their games.

I said earlier, that I like their games for the way they make them, but I don't want most of "that" influence in MK games. There's a certain stylistic and ideological difference that they apply that I don't think is suitable for Mortal Kombat.

I'm sure I wouldn't be scared of them taking over if it only meant financial support....maybe even network augmentation. But when it comes to some of the philosophical habits of those companies IPs, I don't want to see MK go that route.

A brand like SC, gets a little too laden with style iMo, while I wish to see MK's designs go back to being more streamlined, and more simplistic. A brand like SF has the simplicity in design, but I think the anime influence, along with the fact that they never really change anything throws me off alot too.

And that's just the aesthetic stuff.
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03/08/2009 05:45 AM (UTC)
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ThePredator151 Wrote:
... but I think the anime influence, along with the fact that they never really change anything throws me off alot too.

I just cannot fathom how that's a bad thing.

An MK anime,or anime styled game, could be incredibly interesting and refreshing, and certainly isn't at odds with the material in any way.
Frivilous change has arguably led to MK's biggest blunders, and fostered one of the most bizarre cultures in video games. One that has been on a consistent decline with each instalment.
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QueenAhnka
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03/08/2009 05:49 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
ThePredator151 Wrote:
... but I think the anime influence, along with the fact that they never really change anything throws me off alot too.

I just cannot fathom how that's a bad thing.

An MK anime,or anime styled game, could be incredibly interesting and refreshing, and certainly isn't at odds with the material in any way.


No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.
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03/08/2009 05:57 AM (UTC)
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ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.

Ninjas, martial arts warriors, and robots in anime?! MADNESS!!!
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Mortalman
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03/08/2009 06:21 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
ThePredator151 Wrote:
... but I think the anime influence, along with the fact that they never really change anything throws me off alot too.

I just cannot fathom how that's a bad thing.
An MK anime,or anime styled game, could be incredibly interesting and refreshing, and certainly isn't at odds with the material in any way.
Frivilous change has arguably led to MK's biggest blunders, and fostered one of the most bizarre cultures in video games. One that has been on a consistent decline with each instalment.

True.

Moreover (@ ThePredator151), nobody said that if some foreign company will take the MK franchise, it will give their distinct style to it (anime style in this case). I can easily imagine them continuing with the current MK style, but making a lot better use of it or even going further with the MK flow. So there's no need to feel uncomfortable already wink


Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.

Ninjas, martial arts warriors, and robots in anime?! MADNESS!!!

Exactly.

And tell me if the characters' models in MK5-MK7 (or even in MKvsDC) look serious or realistic and not cartoony or anime-ish at all. Hypocrisy anyone?
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ThePredator151
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:G-play

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03/08/2009 06:36 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:


This is a pretty lame attempt on my part, but it describes the anguish for starters.

here

There are more actually, just couldn't find the ones I actually wanted.

EDIT: here's another one

Like, hu?


Mortalman Wrote:
Moreover (@ ThePredator151), nobody said that if some foreign company will take the MK franchise, it will give their distinct style to it (anime style in this case). I can easily imagine them continuing with the current MK style, but making a lot better use of it or even going further with the MK flow. So there's no need to feel uncomfortable already wink


You see, that's why I appreciate their styles and so on for the way they do their games (I bought SC4, and I loved Ninja Gaiden2 for example). So actually, design wise, I don't think I'd have a huge problem with them. Mainly because I agree with Mick alot when it comes to design.

The things I more disagree alot with as far as foreign parent companies are such as:

Fanatasy Ideology - You'd be hard pressed to get American from "not American".

Story Methodology - Largely still in agreement here, when Mortal Kombat puts forth the effort, they do it much better.

That's just two for now though...

Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.

Ninjas, martial arts warriors, and robots in anime?! MADNESS!!!


I see this point. But you know, I think the difference here is "movie vs comic book".

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Mortalman
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03/08/2009 06:59 AM (UTC)
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I didn't mean looks only in the paragraph you quoted. It's possible that any company (foreign or not) could continue the whole original MK premises. Although I agree that to some of them it could be hard to do. But hard does not mean impossible.

Anyway, I get your point, but I'd rather see this matter from the optimistic point of view and not assume that MK franchise will inevitably perish in other company's (once again foreign or not) hands.

And let's not forget the whole matter is still hypothetical and the most probable turn of events is that at least the core of the current MK team will stay with the game either way. No wait, that wasn't too optimistic, was it?
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ThePredator151
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The Ultimate Mortal Kombat Experience
- Lead Graphic Designer - Mortal Kombat Online -


:G-play

:Story

:F-Design

:Cutout

:Get Sig

:Raiden

:Fans [1] [2]

:#LegendaryArts

03/08/2009 07:15 AM (UTC)
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Probably was too optimistic for me. I've been a part of my share of companies that when change in the big wigs came, I got cut.

They always consolidate first.
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03/08/2009 07:27 AM (UTC)
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ThePredator151 Wrote:
This is a pretty lame attempt on my part, but it describes the anguish for starters.

here

Yeah, I'm really of two minds about that.
I mean, on the one hand, that's just so representative of a Soul Calibur style. It's not like an anime style means anything particular, which is partly what makes objection all the more baffling, and hard to take at all seriously.

On the other hand, something more elaborate like that might not necessarily be terrible! The difference between Japanese games - and Mortal Kombat - is that the Japanese are invested in a process of refinement. That has it's flaws as a business strategy, but when married with the positives of MK, it's a very attractive model. It's a more intelligent creative process meeting an investment in concept.

There's no reason to immediately assume foreign developers would abandon what the brand represents, or the canon it's established.

To go to another Namco example, I think it's amazing how much Tekken 6 is shaping up more like an MK sequel than MKvsDC! Some of the conceptual work makes it look more Armageddon than Armageddon (or Trilogy)! I also think if you look at elements of Tekken 5, you see more of an underpinning of an MK-style influence encroaching on the traditional Street Fighter style of hyper stylized martial arts epic.

Tekken shares a lot of conceptual overlap with MK, depicting a similar blend of American urban aesthetics, and traditional Asian influences. If anything, MK probably holds a more broad iconic Asian approach.
Tekken's graphical style also isn't terribly removed from American hyper-realism, even if there are anime cues in some of the designs. Jumping from their model to a Japanese MK that isn't so absurdly removed from what we know, is pretty easy.

ThePredator151 Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.

Ninjas, martial arts warriors, and robots in anime?! MADNESS!!!

I see this point. But you know, I think the difference here is "movie vs comic book".

I don't know if that analogy really supports your argument, at all... Or if it even lines up terribly well. Maybe you could elaborate?

Mortalman Wrote:
It's possible that any company (foreign or not) could continue the whole original MK premises. Although I agree that to some of them it could be hard to do. But hard does not mean impossible.

Anyone who bought MK, only to completely dismiss it's mythology, would be an absolute idiot. That's a sizeable portion of the investment, and a very easy piece of the puzzle to carry over. You even get spoonfed a device to acknowledge the metatextual influences on any changes you might want to implement (ie; introducing crossover material)!
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03/08/2009 04:10 PM (UTC)
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ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
An MK anime,or anime styled game, could be incredibly interesting and refreshing, and certainly isn't at odds with the material in any way.

No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.


I used to feel the same way, but on the other hand, it could really work. MKPig's drawings of Frost and Mileena on the Fan Submission forum show just how cool something like this could be.

It also might be another chance to get a new 2D MK. I think I'd probably rather see a hand-drawn 2D MK than another 3D one.

On a side note, who says Japanese companies are restricted to anime style? They're perfectly capable of drawing sprites that resemble John Tobias's original MK artwork, which I don't think would be a bad thing at all.
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mkflegend
03/08/2009 06:46 PM (UTC)
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Mortalman Wrote:
mkflegend Wrote:
Good god, I was referring to the STYLE which is animeish...because Capcom implements that Japanese anime style as oppose to MK's more darker, serious style.

I know you were refering to the style. But that doesn't change the fact that calling Capcom and Tecmo an "anime company" making "anime-ish games" is simple ignorance.

No offence, seriously, but you're one of the most biased and prejudiced users here (if not the first). And don't even try to say it isn't true, because you've been giving us hundreds of examples on many occasions for years, talking about Japanese companies, Japanese fighting games
(or J-games in general) and about Sony (mainly PlayStations) being total garbage. That last one is classic. You even have "PS2 - Utter crap!" in your profile...

Once again, don't even try to say it was a joke or that many people have similar things in their profiles (it's highly probable that you will say something like that with a possible "lol" at the end), because there are numerous examples of such "jokes" of yours.


mkflegend Wrote:
either way no japanese company will be buying MK

Says who?


mkflegend Wrote:
there are clearly lots of other users both on here and the MKDC forums who happen to agree with me but hey like I care.

It clearly looks like you really do care.


mkflegend Wrote:
This is MKO, the world of ignorance when it comes to MK....

You talking about ignorance... That's charming.


I guess ignorance is within all of us sometimes huh?

You misunderstood what I said. I'll try this one more time. I was merely referring to the "style" of Japanese fighters which has that anime look to it. I don't feel it would fit well with MK's style.

I said what I said referring to anime style/companies to save time hoping you knew what I meant.

Lecturing me on bias? Ohh the irony lol.

Ok, when have I ever said all japanese games and Sony are garbage? Please quote me saying so because I never said that. I know I've said I like the DS and felt the PSP was crap in comparison in the past and that Sony is arrogant but I never said "Japanese games are garbage" that's just bs right there, no offense but now you're just putting words I never said into my mouth. Oh yes, PS2=Utter Crap in my profile somehow translates into all Japanese games/companies suck? Are you even aware that I'm a Nintendo/M$$ fanboy? hmmm...that might have something to do with it....but I assure you I have no "bias" against Japanese merchandise otherwise I wouldn't have all my Nintendo's, DS and god knows how many other Japanese games I have.

I'm a wii-360 guy, tell ya right now.

Why don't you and I just agree to disagree here with MK being bought over by a future company? It's obvious you want a foreign company buying out MK if Midway dies, where I among some others here wish for MK to stay American.





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Mortalman
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03/08/2009 09:27 PM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Mortalman Wrote:
It's possible that any company (foreign or not) could continue the whole original MK premises. Although I agree that to some of them it could be hard to do. But hard does not mean impossible.

Anyone who bought MK, only to completely dismiss it's mythology, would be an absolute idiot.

That's out of question and that's basically why I said it's possible to follow the style of the current MK franchise by any other company.

Also, I agree on the other part of your post.


]{0MBAT Wrote:
ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
An MK anime,or anime styled game, could be incredibly interesting and refreshing, and certainly isn't at odds with the material in any way.

No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.

I used to feel the same way, but on the other hand, it could really work. MKPig's drawings of Frost and Mileena on the Fan Submission forum show just how cool something like this could be.

Man, these are great. Especially Mileena. Of course it could work.

]{0MBAT Wrote:
It also might be another chance to get a new 2D MK. I think I'd probably rather see a hand-drawn 2D MK than another 3D one.

Ditto.

]{0MBAT Wrote:
On a side note, who says Japanese companies are restricted to anime style? They're perfectly capable of drawing sprites that resemble John Tobias's original MK artwork, which I don't think would be a bad thing at all.

Exactly. But some people have a hard time undestanding that.


mkflegend Wrote:
You misunderstood what I said. I'll try this one more time. I was merely referring to the "style" of Japanese fighters which has that anime look to it. I don't feel it would fit well with MK's style.

I didn't misunderstand anything. Don't act like you said something different or we're to dumb to comprehend your complex mind.

mkflegend Wrote:
I said what I said referring to anime style/companies to save time hoping you knew what I meant.

Not really. You were constatly giving examples of your ignorance and lack of knowledge as regards the subject.

mkflegend Wrote:
Lecturing me on bias? Ohh the irony lol.

I have no idea what on Earth are you talking about lolololololol.

mkflegend Wrote:
It's obvious you want a foreign company buying out MK if Midway dies

Like you said, that's BS right there and another proof of your ignorance, because you didn't read (or understand) what I wrote.

But whatever, I don't care anymore and don't want to waste my time for this, especially when someone was asking to stop this OT. And I don't feel like wasting my life or space here for pasting extremely large amounts of your fanboy quotes, just because you deny the whole matter. But one classic example from the first thread that I found:

mkflegend Wrote:
Sadly, I think this is one of the high lights for Sony's new "mighty PS3" since everything else sucks about it.



I don't know what I was expecting. There's no way you would admit to being wrong... Unfortunately, Alpha_Q_Up_Is_Back was right...
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ThePredator151
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:G-play

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03/08/2009 10:58 PM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Yeah, I'm really of two minds about that.I mean, on the one hand, that's just so representative of a Soul Calibur style. It's not like an anime style means anything particular, which is partly what makes objection all the more baffling, and hard to take at all seriously.


Well here's the thing, I don't not like Anime. But I do think it's possible to peg anime as a style. However broad of course. I'd say that it's style is that of a more sophisticated cartoon than traditional Americanized animation.

I can see what you mean as far as objecting to a style that is so generally defined, but it is definable. And it's root is of Japanese decent. All I'm saying here, is that I don't want to see that distinction expressed through a Mortal Kombat game. I enjoy the American interpretation for MK as a core reason why I'd take MK over IP's from foreign vendors.

It's a matter of taste//preference for this product that makes it something to be taken seriously.

Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
On the other hand, something more elaborate like that might not necessarily be terrible! The difference between Japanese games - and Mortal Kombat - is that the Japanese are invested in a process of refinement. That has it's flaws as a business strategy, but when married with the positives of MK, it's a very attractive model. It's a more intelligent creative process meeting an investment in concept.


Yea I agree, MK could definitely benefit from some specific cues taken from Asian art styles, and it has actually. But why do that when it's an American game, created by American creators, with American art styles? Albeit with influences from other art styles including, yet not exclusive to the Asian ones.

The way I see it, that would be the same ideology that lets the MKTeam assert some ridiculous minigame in the middle of a gameplay mechanic. When, if they would invested the time it took to make the base mechanic better, the playing experience would be better.

Basically, it's an inquisitive principle. "Why go get something else to make you better, when what you have is good? All you have to do is make that better."

Which plays to a brand in the first place, and it elaborates on the gargantuan pool of potential that MK has created for itself already. What I'm saying is, they don't need "something else", they need to make what they have better. They need to capitalize on MK's potential as an American made game. Not Asian//Anime art styles and principles. Even though, yea, MK takes alot from all kinds of art styles.

See what I mean?

A good analogy would be Ford vs Honda. Just because the Honda has better fuel efficiency, you don't turn the Ford in-to a Honda....You make the Ford more fuel efficient. You don't acquire Carbon Fiber fenders from Honda, no. You make your own carbon fiber fenders, and you make them better//lighter weight than the competition so the car burns less fuel carrying the car.

MK doesn't "need" their style of anything (I know you didn't say that MK does need it), it needs to perfect itself. Even if that means refining how vast that identity is.

So again, I agree with you that the MK developers could benefit from taking another look at it's competition. But, become it? Nah.

Not Namco, Capcom, Tecmo, or otherwise.

Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
There's no reason to immediately assume foreign developers would abandon what the brand represents, or the canon it's established.


That's not what I'm doing.

Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
To go to another Namco example, I think it's amazing how much Tekken 6 is shaping up more like an MK sequel than MKvsDC! Some of the conceptual work makes it look more Armageddon than Armageddon (or Trilogy)! I also think if you look at elements of Tekken 5, you see more of an underpinning of an MK-style influence encroaching on the traditional Street Fighter style of hyper stylized martial arts epic.

Tekken shares a lot of conceptual overlap with MK, depicting a similar blend of American urban aesthetics, and traditional Asian influences. If anything, MK probably holds a more broad iconic Asian approach.
Tekken's graphical style also isn't terribly removed from American hyper-realism, even if there are anime cues in some of the designs. Jumping from their model to a Japanese MK that isn't so absurdly removed from what we know, is pretty easy.


Looking into it, I can see that. I actually salute Tekken on adapting to the market demographic appropriately. Because even though I basically despise Tekken, the game is more appealing to me now more than ever. The problem I have with that game though, is mechanical. Same with the likes of DOA, VF, and sometimes KOF.

- To address the point though, foreign games are getting close to tapping MK's potential. I definitely see that. It's something I brought up in our 2hr Fan Assessment. However, I think that this is a core problem with MK's identity, and not so much a benefit for games such as Tekken.

Why? Cuz well, they're following in that sense, do you think? They're not leading as far as "American Hyper-Realism". They're leading as far as Anime Hyper Realism. That's the way I see it.

And really, without MK on the ball like they should be right now, that presents a monopoly type of situation. Y'know? Anime's really the only admittedly good thing there right now. Spiked hair, big eyes, over elaborate costumes, super dooper bulging muscles, and enormous fireballs...

Heh.. Like I said, it's good (hell, it's great alot of the times), but what I'm looking for from MK is the subtitles of that influence in today's worldly, social, eco-society. In other words, I think MK should definitely recognize that Anime is in fact something people like, but not commit to it more than it really has to. Cuz it doesn't need to commit, or be subject to it.
Which while I'm at it, that should really only be a character specific issue.

Raiden: Japanese Mythology is obviously at play here.
Sub-Zero: Japanese Heritage is at play
Scorpion: Japanese Clan in play.

...and a couple other characters on the MK roster.

So, where it becomes an issue for me, is when we start thinking that MK would somehow benefit greatly from a fast growing norm. Anime. Instead of investing in the potential of itself. American. Which is encompassing to a point of Asian styles and so forth anyway.

- Mortal Kombat is the game I expect to be more realistic than those other games. I expect the characters to be more......contingent on things real-like than those other games. And I expect the story and fantasy element to help build or support those things.

Anime doesn't do that so much, and that's the influence those other games have going for them. I appreciate that absolute disconnect from reality in those games.....I would not appreciate that, from MK.

Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
ThePredator151 Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
No, it'll be completely stupid. MK going anime just dosen't make any type of sense.

Ninjas, martial arts warriors, and robots in anime?! MADNESS!!!

I see this point. But you know, I think the difference here is "movie vs comic book".

I don't know if that analogy really supports your argument, at all... Or if it even lines up terribly well. Maybe you could elaborate?


My fault man. I don't remember what I was thinking about on this point.

]{0MBAT Wrote:


I like those art pieces, I think they were done really well too. But I do not like that it's an MK character portrayed like that, nor do I think it could work. Mind as well do another "MK vs game" with some other ridiculously "plausible" entourage in that case.

It's good fan art, but I'd hate to see embellishment on it in a real game. Especially if the franchise is indeed sold to another parent company.
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Lolacaust
03/09/2009 12:27 AM (UTC)
0
~Crow~ Wrote:
I'm always staggered to see the huge amount of "patriotic gamers" that exist in the MK crowd. It really is quite pathetic how anyone could wish for a company like Bungie or Rockstar to take the rights, companies that have utterly no experience in creating a fighting game. I guess quality has never been a big factor to a lot of you, though.


Ouch! I'll have you know that I save my myopic patriot rage for real things, such as Nascar or pornography.

Seriously.

It’s not that I don't want Capcom, Namco, or Techmo to pick up MK, but it's that I know they won’t.

So I began to think that if game play quality isn’t realistically attainable; why not at least have a company pick it up that can do the whole dark and brutal thing well.

Or how bout' this! Rockstar Japan asks its publisher Capcom to throw em' some designers and then they can make their new, breakout title...

...Mortal Kombat 9: Turbo Blood!

Honestly, I can't believe I just come up with these works of utter genius and share them with the undeserving masses.
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Mick-Lucifer
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About Me

What do you like? Hit the Toasty thumbs up on articles and forum posts for a quick response!
03/09/2009 12:53 AM (UTC)
0
ThePredator151 Wrote:
Yea I agree, MK could definitely benefit from some specific cues taken from Asian art styles, and it has actually. But why do that when it's an American game, created by American creators, with American art styles? Albeit with influences from other art styles including, yet not exclusive to the Asian ones.

The way I see it, that would be the same ideology that lets the MKTeam assert some ridiculous minigame in the middle of a gameplay mechanic. When, if they would invested the time it took to make the base mechanic better, the playing experience would be better.

Basically, it's an inquisitive principle. "Why go get something else to make you better, when what you have is good? All you have to do is make that better."

Which plays to a brand in the first place, and it elaborates on the gargantuan pool of potential that MK has created for itself already. What I'm saying is, they don't need "something else", they need to make what they have better. They need to capitalize on MK's potential as an American made game. Not Asian//Anime art styles and principles. Even though, yea, MK takes alot from all kinds of art styles.

The only people who should live with such narrow and unimaginative boundaries are the people who were creative and imaginative enough to do something definitive to begin with.
That's a bit of an exaggeration, but the incestuous overlapping MK has had with it's brief history is a problem. Again, that's where the Japanese process of refinement is a real positive, instead of the frivilous chopping and changing that inevitably follows two steps back.

I think a lot of the unsuccessful new characters really speak to undermine MK's auto-fellatious relationship with the MK aesthetic that came out of borrowed aesthetics.

Also, like you said, these games are built on pop culture cues, in the case of Mortal Kombat, which were often borrowed heavily from Asian reference. Claiming that as the domain of American games is silly, narrow minded, and creatively lacking. Throwing the franchise into an international pond is more than reasonable! Nothing good about MK says American...

Getting in touch with new ideas, archetypes, and genres, is a great opportunity to refresh a series known for sinking into the muddy bog of brains, chains, and 90s extreme lame.

The car analogy would be great, except, we're talking about a brand that is going to be bought out. In which case, yeah, maybe you do start to change the inner workings, if you aren't just going to shut it down all together.

Patriotism in the case of MK just seems to be one of the many peculiar and stubborn tropes this dysfunctional fanbases likes to cling to. I'm certainly not saying it needs to go foreign, but I wouldn't expect to lose anything from that, either.

Mind you, out of all of this, I've got to say... I hope a developer with a sense of humor and a bit of courage steps up if there's going to be a buy out. All this flag waving has really got me interested in a new jingoistic MKSF character. Something hilarious!
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