I think it's very generous to claim characterization has ever been MK's strong point. When the time comes to execute, they have a nasty habit of making their supposedly bad ass characters look like complete idiots, completely undermining the footnote we were told about them. That's not to say they haven't been able to allude to characters over the years, but if anything, they're better at it when they are only contributing short allusions through peripheral details and a checklist of moments from bios (and endings). Putting the control in the hands of actual writers (movie) hasn't hurt their depth, either.

Yes, MK has a pretty rich universe and some great characters and plot points to draw upon. No, they haven't really created a magnificent and minutely crafted magnum opus for all the world to embrace.

The fact that they have all that potential but still struggle to live up to it is presumably why anyone would be so displeased with MK2011's wheel spinning redundancy.

I do hope you realize that the answers to the question you just asked are already in the topic I said you should read at the very beginning of this argument, which you said you never read the whole way through.

Seems to me if you DID just read the whole thing, it would save ME a whole lotta trouble.

And I'm still waiting to hear how being in a 60 hour game with dialogue helped Zell any. Sure, Sonya ain't deep and she never changes...but she's still deeper than that fuckin' guy.

I really don't feel like going through 13 pages of looonnnnggg posts right now. Could you just, ya know, give me a quick rundown on how they've grown?

and I've never played FF8. Hell, the last FF game I actually completed and enjoyed was FFX and that was a long time ago.

I have a question. It's not entirely on-topic (but when was the last time this thread was on -topic?). Anyhoo, you seem to not be very fond of people who don't follow the story in-depth, but what about people like me who are prone to fanon?

Just curious.

Oh God, he directed me to that thread the other day. It's fucking awful. I don't understand how one takes something as exciting as Mortal Kombat and makes it that boring.

If you want to analyze (haha "anal" yze) the overall story and characters, that's cool. But their prose is so dry they could use it to mop spills.

Depends on what that fanon actually is. I indulge in some myself. In fact, all those analyses we've done COULD be called fanon given how we elaborate on things beyond a strict to-the-letter reading of the bios.
It's all logical educated guesses derived from the canon though. There's no "in my version, Frost isn't really evil" or anything like you see in some people's terrible fan fics.

Eww. Fan fics.

No, I meant more along the lines of our conversation in the "Sub-Zero teleportation" thread, wherein I posited that teleportation is a skill passed down through the Lin Kuei, which is why so many of them can do it.

Well, I did disagree with that specific example, because all the Lin Kuei who teleport do it via a different power, so they can't all be learning it the same way. In fact, Sektor and Cyrax can't have "learned" it at all, they do it technologically.

But I have my own versions of that.

For instance, I almost a full year ago, I was trying to make sense of Reptile's Force Ball. See, in MK2 and UMK3 it looks like a glowing ball of energy. People used to call it a "gravity ball" because of the way it shot you into the air.

But I was looking for a way to relate it more to his other powers, something biological rather than magic. So I thought about the way he makes it by spreading his hands and I thought "what if it's a goo he secretes? A bubble of slime that hits you by popping?"

And guess what they designed it to look like in the new game? So I guess I'm pretty good at this.

Another example is, we know Raiden's the god of thunder, Fujin's the god of wind, and Elder Gods are all identical, omnipotent space-dragons, they don't have domains...but what about some of the newer gods? They never told us what they do.

For instance, Shao Kahn's backstory suggests he used to be one of Outworld's gods before whatever happened that made him just "the immortal emperor" instead happened. Well, my natural inclination based on his weapons and appearance, and the way of life in Outworld, is to think he was the God of War.

Or Argus. He wears red and gold, and his sons...except Rain...have powers related to fire, speed, and a ground pound could be gravity. Perhaps he, and/or Taven after him, is God of the Sun?

That's the kind of fanon I indulge in.

Not necessarily, remember human Smoke and Noob can do it. It's entirely possible that Sektor and Cyrax picked up the skill prior to automation.


But to the point, yes. That's the sort of fanon I enjoy. Not the fanficy "What if Stryker banged Sareena" kind of thing.

Noob does it by being made of living shadow.

Sub-Zeroes do it by turning into snowflakes or an ice puddle.

Smoke does it by being able to turn into a gas form (as a human) or a cloud of nanobots (as a cyborg).

Sektor beams himself up and down by becoming a digital data signal.

Cyrax merely breaks his limbs off like an action figure and rockets them around to somewhere else.

None of those have common elements other than the theme of "teleporting" itself, and only Sub-Zero's could possibly be a learned technique rather than built in or reborn with.

The teleportation manifests differently depending on the powers of the guy. And differently again when they're automated.

Well okay, so it's like an art school teaching every student to paint, but they don't all have the same style. Fine.

But that assumes that every member of the Lin Kuei has powers and we don't know for sure that Sektor and Cyrax did. If they did, why don't they have them now? Or at least better codenames?

Because okay, when he was automated, Smoke's ability to make smoke naturally was apparently lost and replaced with nanobots that mimic the same power. But he IS still a guy who makes Smoke and is named Smoke. So obviously the Lin Kuei's goal was to make sure his powers stayed the same as a robot, even if the means he creates them was changed.

Now I could give you Sektor. He shoots homing missiles, he can travel to and punch people anywhere. The word Sektor is a misspelling of "sector", which is a location or coordinate. His power in life could have been hunting/tracking related, or he could've had perfect aim like Bullseye.

But Cyrax? Cyrax is a gibberish word and his power is explosions, nets, and helicopter hair. That doesn't really translate to a human superpower.
That may be changing the subject though. It's hard to tell.

All late to the party and stuff...



Or....considering Raiden is a God character, he could just be omnipotent. *shrugs*

Should've been explained that he's that way to begin with, even though I think this premise is silly as hell. lol



I can dig that.



Oh I disagree.... The "K.I.S.S." rule is important here. MK has always been great at giving a little bit of relevant information about the characters and what they've been doing, and allowing us to speculate on what the remaining information could be. We're basically saying that we're sick of guessing because it's been long enough. We're also saying that as the series progressed, so should the story keep doing so..... So should the writing styles become specific to address specific characters, and the overall methods of delivering that story, should progress and mature as-well.

Mainly because.....it's a mature rated game. It deserves it, and it fits without having to force good writing into this game. They haven't capatolized on the potential that they've infused into the story element, and it's ashamed to see them throw good material out the window with; "Raiden e-mailed himself."

In terms of composition, a description of actions or sequence of events doesn't have to be complex to deliver a message. Doesn't need to be animated, or illustrated visually actually. It actually shouldn't be complex, to tell the truth. The point is, you can do it with colorful, tasteful, and creative writing. Mick Lucifers style of writing is very colorful, for example. While XiahouDun84, and TemporaryUserName's styles are very formal, and professional.... while Razor and I might both have colorful and formal styles. All with percentages of form, color, and so on within each of our styles of course... none of us one-track writers.

So...the same sorts of things that allow us on the boards to get a good taste of what eachothers personalities may be like, is the same sort of inference made with the little bios and so on in the game, for each of the characters, and the overall storylines...see? Now of course, you can't really tell what kind of actual people we all are.....but it's pretty easy to imagine based on the little bit we give eachother to work with.

Same thing with MK's material.

Here's the thing. Don't you think it's just a little weird that every playable Lin Kuei (minus Frost, 'the dropout') has a variation of teleportation? No way is that a coincidence.



He was codenamed 'Cyrax' for his cybernetic weaponry. Quite possibly, he could have been the Lin Kuei's tech man and maybe even developed the automation process.

I always saw Sektor as the one of them who was the most interested in tech, which is why he was the first to volunteer and the only one who embraced it instead of trying to become human again.

The leaked casting sheet suggests the developers agree.

It could be the classic "I've seen the error of my ways" story, though. That's the downside of the automation backstory not being fully revealed.

I like to believe that if they explain things well enough, particularly character descriptions, powers, and overall capabilities, we should see limitations in there somewhere.

So, if Raiden is omnipotent to any real degree (eastern ideology of what a god is commonly capable of, considered), and actually does have all these powers like: turning himself back and forth between celestial and mortal form, escaping "death/sacrifice" multiple ways due to god rites or what have you, and virtually "txt messaging" an earlier self.... Then hopefully these writers see value in putting in place limitations for him doing stuff like this.

For example: Maybe the Elder Gods gave him the rite to send the message, but it is an undesirable method of "fixing" an overall problem. And so, he might be reprimanded for doing so in some unique and unexpected way according to some deity law, or god credo, or.... something. Same with celestial//mortal form...same with sacrificing himself...same with using dark magic to raise up that corpse, same with any other extreme measure Raiden has taken in the past, present, or future...

hm... look at the conundrum we're faced with there.

Point though, is even though I'm game to see what they're gonna do with this pretty silly premise, Gods can be as all mighty and all powerful as they want them to be. They'd just have to provide the opportunity for equal or greater re-action for the things that they do. Even if that action is subject to the action itself. Example: Sub-Zero freeze balls his opponent twice in MK1->, freezes himself as a result.

We'll see I guess.

Just because someone doesn't care about the story doesn't mean they're not intelligent. Stupid way to generalize people. Most people playing this game for the gameplay or fatalities don't give a flying fuck about the story, so there goes that nonsense about them wanting to scrap something they don't care about or only read for the purposes of fun, rather than life.

And this is an excuse...how?
See...the neat thing about this argument is that pushing buttons for fun...something everybody can do.
Reading, writing, analyzing text, and being creative, for fun, on the other hand? Only "nerds" do that. So there really is a connection between caring about writing and story in a video game and being smarter than the people who don't.
What I'm saying is, you're allowed to generalize when logic has your back.

oh wow this is priceless

Well the way a generalization works is it doesn't mean "everybody", it means "most people".

The objective is to summarize a group, not say there's an absolute truth about them. There are ALWAYS exceptions, the whole point is exceptions are the minority. That's what the word "exception" means.

And I'm basing my opinion of the "two different fanbases" on years of posting at this board. Actual firsthand experience. "It's just a fighting game", the word "convoluted"...ALL that stuff I said, those are real opinions I see here on an almost daily basis. And these statements are things that are blatantly ignorant and wrong. To say you don't CARE about the story is one thing. At least you're not yet insulting people who DO care. But to say "Being in the fighting genre means you do not even need stories" is just asking for it.
I mean look, if you're one of those "all I care about is gameplay" people, and you're offended I think I'm smarter than you are...then try to surprise me and say something smart and eloquent. I'd LIKE to be wrong. I LIKE feeling that the people I'm talking to are my equals. The whole reason I'm kind of a dick is precisely because it doesn't happen often enough, and the "I don't care about the story" posters are the pretty often ones who say the things I think sound the dumbest.

I couldn't have said it better myself. It's funny when i try explaining Mortal Kombat to people that haven't ever really shown any interest in the story. All I get is.... ummm what? Then I just laugh. It's unfortunate however. I'm just hoping Boon doesn't ruin the story for us. I have faith it'll maintain some interest. As far as Mk vs DCU goes... you saw and listened... Boon let go of the driver seat and let DC develop the story for the game. BIG mistake. The stories were incredibly short and basically exactly the same thing from both sides.. Wasted time and effort. If it werent for the Kombo challenges and the halfway decent fighting mechanics I would of never kept my patience with it. Good thing Boon is in control now. Hopefully this "Going back in time" will clear up some of the plot h oles but all in all. If they decide to start killing off people we are gonna have a lot of angry mk fans. That's when they wind up "resurrected".

Actually, all reports suggest the MK team kept the usual strangehold on the game, writing and controlling the MK side, while also having ownership of the basic foundation. What "DC" contributed amounted to a dialogue script and basic guidance for where characters should stand and react.

Shaolin Monks, on the other hand, was apparently written by Jim Kreuger, another comics writer. As far as servicing the canon and redelivering that portion of the story, you might agree that it was a similar failure. As a piece of fairly conventional writing, I would argue the job was done well, if without being completely informed, and perhaps without enough rope to exceed the expectations of video game writing.

In other words, it still stands to reason that the MK franchise could benefit greatly from employing an actual writer, particularly if they're adequately informed, and given enough room to embellish and design.


Also; at the end of the day, people who don't care about the story really don't have anything to complain about. Arcade mode is always ready and waiting, as is online play which those people would probably enjoy very much. If you don't care about story, it's quality and presence doesn't effect you. Which means a well crafted story should simply be a path toward pleasing everyone.

Shaolin Monks? Done well? Are you serious?

Even if you do ignore the continuity errors and judge it as its own piece of work, the dialogue is literally groan-worthy almost the whole game long.

As a conventional piece of writing it worked through it's points and did what a lot of video games are expected to do.

The rest of what I said alludes to the fact that the writer clearly wasn't adequately informed, and probably wasn't given a lot of room to make any kind of directorial influences. As a basic video game script, it was a competent piece of writing that met it's B-grade standard and funding. A lot more than the dialogue was groan worthy. The designs, the structure... the writer wasn't where the problems began for MKSM.

Which really only distracts from the fact that the point is -- it's entirely reasonable to assume that MK could still greatly benefit from the influence of a writer. Particularly a writer who is given greater reign over the direction of the plot and design brief. I don't think MK has ever benefitted greatly from putting programmers, financiers, and to a lesser degree, designers, first.