So you either don't mind or don't blame Krueger for Kitana's evil cackles and Liu and Kung Lao's "she's not my girlfriend" bickering?

Because that crap ALMOST sets the bar for MK's lowest point in both script and voice acting. The only thing worse is MK4 endings.

At least the lines spoken in Deception and Armageddon's Konquest modes have been competent if a bit stiff and dry. Vogel does a perfectly serviceable job. Even better when they hire REAL actors to do the voices, if the MK side of MK vs DCU was indeed his work. I can't praise the Raiden, Sub-Zero, Sonya, Jax, and Quan Chi parts of that game's story mode enough.

I don't know that I'd hold anything Taven did up as a superior vision of script or characterization, but I think there's definitely a bit of leeway for all the people involved. Even if that's not really the point I'm making at all.

I think MKII is arguably the high point because it brought all of those disciplines together with a cohesive objective, but they were simpler times and it was easier to bring basic elements together for a similar brief. More sophisticated technology demands a more sophisticated approach, and having a writer-director steering the vision of the entire game could only make it stronger. Chances are, that's probably not going to come from a programmer doing the job.

I'm not saying Vogel hasn't done a good job, can't do a good job, and won't do a good job. I'm just saying there'd be something to be gained from an actual writer who is well informed and given enough slack to do the job, and do it well. When a project is steered forward on a conceptual level by a person directing every creative component, you're going to get a good game out of it. Unfortunately, any universal standard of "good" tends to not apply when making these games, which is a self-perpetuating problem.

I'm not against a "real" writer, assuming one does actually exist who can learn and stay loyal to the canon.

I'm just saying there's nothing redeemable about what Krueger wrote.

When Johnny Cage's lines are the least stupid sounding ones in a game, you've got major problems.

I'd like to think there's enough precedent in the world to assume that, if that was the actual job they were given, there'd be enough writers out there that could handle it. Granted, there's still a bigger issue of storytelling in video games in general that isn't helping, perceptions or execution, which isn't helping.

I'd argue that comic book writers are especially well equipped to deal with the types of adaptive and long running systems a good video game script would require, but at the same time, for every Paul Jenkins or some such, there's multiple under achievers. Arkham Asylum's arguably become the standard, but alas, I don't know how actively involved Paul Dini was in steering that ship. It might've been the MKII to the Batman franchise, more a luck of components coming together, than cohesive vision. Then again, the designers were obviously motivated to work with the script, which is what I'm accusing the MK team of notoriously not doing (more often than not).

I'd love to use a certain handsome devil with a few positive reviews under his belt and ideas of his own as an example of possibilities, but even I would find that incredibly disingenuous. A can of worms that needn't be the latest distraction in a less-than-multi-tasked discussion.

Well fuck you too, guy. Sorry I couldn't use hand puppets to make it more entertaining.



Huh.

Considering the ammount of casual cursing I put in my average post....even the analysis ones....I'm actually kind of surprised someone called my writing style very formal.



.......um.......thanks..?

Still, composition 101....

Well, I don't think a "Real Writer"'s job is to hijack the storyline and write it his way. I think it's more along the lines of formatting the script.
Like, Boon says, "So here, this character is supposed to have a conversation with this character about such and such," or even make a mock-up script...
It's almost like... They need a real writer simply to be the editor, I think. To oversee plotholes, make the characters sound consistent and hopefully not stupid.
I mean, I'm replaying Shaolin Monks right now, and oh my god... It's even worse than I remember.

Kitana does a special move
Liu Kang: "You're beautiful! Who are you?"

Baraka stabs a monk in the head
Liu Kang: "Are you okay?"

Dear lord...

For a guy who's willing to throw out his own criticisms quite often, you certainly get defensive when someone criticizes your own work. Thicker skin, man.

Also, if your'e serious, and you really do have MK handpuppets, that's so awesome.

I agree with the guy who said that people need to stop bitching about the story so much. Its a fucking fighting game and even if you are a hardcore fan (like me), you would know that what made mortasl kombat what it is was the violence and its gameplay, not the deep storyline or whatever bullshit you people are talking about. If you seriously get emotionally affected by the outcome of Mks story, you should step away from games and fast. People who get so involved in games that arent real are losers that clearly lack any type of social life. MK9 WILL BE THE BEST FIGHTING GAME EVER! THATS THE POINT!!!!!

That was defensive and thin-skinned?
If I was really offended, my response would much more derogatory and if I was really being defensive, I would offer more than "fuck you."


In all seriousness though, I can't stand it when people discuss/analyze fiction with flowery, prose text. It's distracting, annoying, and just plain ridiculous. Those are the guys who take this sort of thing too seriously.

I suppose I could make my analyzes with poetic prose....but I'd feel like a fucking retard.

Still, you jumped to the 'fuck you' right away because someone didn't like your thread. That reads defensive to me.

You didn't answer my other question. Do you have MK handpuppets?



Poetic and interesting are two different things.

Fuck you.



Well, that strikes me as more an issue of your taste than my writing style. You and I'm sure others don't find my analyzes interesting, while I know many other have.

I have no control over that sort of thing.





......yet.

Oh, you'd have to pay. I don't give out freebies.

For the record, I have handpuppets.

But you can't see them.

I'm not sure linking to longwinded self-indulgent fan-fic threads is necessarily the most scholarly of conversation standards, but neither is this digression...

Uhhh, yes, they did.

Dude, just because you got personally offended and embarrassed with the way they portrayed your favorite character doesn't mean that the whole freaking game sucked. And it certainly doesn't mean that the whole storyline+characters were screwed up, uninteresting, not entertaining, and lame just because one or two didn't live up to your desire.

Everyone already knows that's the main reason you absolutely hate this game. You were one of the strongest supporters of MKvsDC with the "Kitana VS WonderWoman" flag in front of the line.



Well, I'm going to keep a very open mind about all of this. The game looks absolutely fantastic and beautiful, so, I'm going to hope (and pray) that the storyline is just as perfect, truthful and loyal to the fans as it was in MKDA. I do admit I was very skeptical and upset when I first heard the news, but, after giving it some thought, it really might work out for the best!

I don't expect Raiden to be able to send "messages" to himself every time he wants it. This is most definitely a major event and a major piece of information about the power of his character, so, I'm going to assume that it can only be done once and in a special way.

My guess is that Raiden definitely dies and something (during his final moments and the whole "Armageddon" chaos and craziness) made it possible for him to do that. Once. No more. Period.

Raiden's message might mean his real end. He already escaped one sacrifice (MKD), maybe this will be his last. The whole idea sadness me because I absolutely love Raiden. However, I don't want a stupid and lame excuse/plot for this whole "time travel" thing that he is doing. It already sounds risky and silly, so, I hope they manage to make it serious.

I really don't think Raiden can do this at will every time. Something during his end and the events of Armageddon must had made it possible for him to travel to his past consciousness. Maybe it was death. Maybe it was Blaze. Maybe it was the energy of all the warriors. Maybe it was Taven and Daegon together, maybe it was Mileena riding a Pony, who knows?.

I also hope this doesn't mean more plot holes and stupid mistakes that ret con the original official storyline or that mess up what we already know from the later games (MK4, MKDA, MKD). I'm hoping that most of this changes that are going to happen are not too crazy or too drastic.

I don't want the major events of MK1, MK2, MK3, MK4, and MKDA altered. I wouldn't mind the whole "all the heroes got killed and resurrected" stupid thing of MKD changed and fixed, and I would like an unpredictable satisfying conclusion in MKA (regarding Blaze) because of the changes that are going to happen now.

I understand changes will be made, and that we will have to accept that....but, I have to repeat myself: I just hope its not something too stupid and drastic.

Examples of Stupid and lame and Bad changes

- Liu Kang doesn't win the tournament, instead, its Kung Lao.
- Jade becomes a Tekunin Cyborg.
- Kano likes to smell flowers (well, you get the idea).
- Shang Tsung gets killed so there is no deadly alliance.
- Shinnok never escapes so there is no MK4.

Example of Good Changes

- Mileena never gets killed and sent to hell.
- Johnny Cage (even though its been officially ret coned for years now) never dies at the beginning of MK3.
- Something happens to Blaze during MK2 (he doesn't necessarily get killed) that affects the events of MKA.

Not the best examples, but you know what I mean.

So queve, basically you don't want anything to change? Then why not just go play mk 1-3?

Do I come across as self-indulgent? I try not to.



Uh oh....queve's mad because I dared to have an opinion..!

First of all...."strongest supporter"..? Because I had a sig, which featured my favorite MK character and favorite DC character? Actually queve, if you remember...which I doubt, because since when do you let facts and reality get in the way of your arguments....my position regarding MK vs. DC was primarily (and you know what, I bet I can find my actual quote):

And if you don't believe, the post is right here.

Hardly "strong support" for a game I openly called goofy, stupid, and cared only my favorites. I also would defend DC from people that would insist it wasn't dark enough for Mortal Kombat....but that's because I'm a DC fan and those people were ignorant.

I was willing to give it a chance, but yeah, I was pretty much basing my enjoyment of the game on how the two characters I like turned out. And they didn't turn out good. Story aside, can you seriously tell me Kitana & Wonder Woman weren't half-assed in gameplay as well?

But that doesn't save the story from being a meaningless and banal waste of life. A half-assed "plot" which consisted of characters wandering around, bumping into other characters, and getting into fights either because of "THE RAAAAGGEEE!!" or no reason at all.

Seriously, almost every single exchange between characters went like this:
Character X: "Hey...who are you?"
Character Y: "Who are you?!"
Character X: "I'm looking for Character Z."
Character Y: "I don't know who that is."
Character X: "THE RAAAGGGEEE!"

Thrilling.

I hate Liu Kang, Sonya Blade, Jax, and Kano....so how could I possibly be entertained by their existence? Baraka, Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, Quan Chi, and Scorpion only offering the most basic and simplistic interpretations.
The DC cast didn't fare much better....like watching an bad episode of Superfriends.

Culminating in a crowning moment of idiocy when...after the MK characters and DC characters all beat each other up....Raiden and Superman meet Dark Kahn, look at each other and say:
Raiden: "You don't serve him..!"
Superman: "Neither do you."

......

I almost wish one of them would've followed it up with "Wow, we wasted a lot of time didn't we?"


Yeah, Kitana's portrayal sucked. How does that make the rest of the story NOT a vapid, childish, mish-mash of cardborad cut-outs?

Yeah, I understand that's kind of what it sounds like (my post above), but, like I constantly repeated: I actually DO expect some things to change. I don't want the overall storyline to be screwed up by change, but yeah, I'm open for some changes.

Just not major and drastic stupid ones.

I guess the whole point of Raiden traveling back is to change some major events, but, I sincerely hope this mission is super hard and near impossible, that way, some major events don't get screwed up (mainly talking about the overall plot of MKDA and MKD, maybe MK4).

Maybe he can warn about Quan Chi, but not ruin the Deadly Alliance. Also, he can give the heads up about Blaze, changing something that changes/destroys Blaze in MKA.

this "twist" in the story that ed has talked about is interesting. It sounds like the game is going to branch off from the old story after mk3 and do something different. So yeah, No mk4/Gold - Armageddon, which is logical since we already done all that. Theres no way they are going to end this game and go into MK4. Theres no point.

I stand corrected regarding the "strong supporter" comment. Seriously though, after all your many posts and arguments regarding your wishes for your sig about the Princesses and DC and what not, it certainly felt that way. Sorry about that, again, I stand corrected.

As for everything else, and your very amusing and ironic comment of "facts and reality get in the way of your arguments" (ironic, much?), all I have to say is that it really sucks to be you.

You barely find anything that's worthy enough to enjoy in MK anymore, and everything else that is good (characters you personally dislike) you look at it with a negative attitude because you are biased or you are automatically against it because you simply are negative. I'm not "mad" because you have an opinion, dear boy, lol, but it would be nice to hear you talking like that instead of rubbing your opinion as facts in everyone's face.

MKvsDC might not have been the best storytelling or your favorite game, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't entertaining or that it was "stupid". You are not the only one with a good idea of the basics in writing, and believe me I wish they paid the storyline the attention that you, me, Sub7th, Pred, and others give it. Just because many of us enjoyed it doesn't mean we have no clue about good writing (not saying you said anything of the sort, but I'd just like to throw that out there).

As for Kitana, well, for someone who doesn't care about the essentials (her character in the story or her special moves) and is in it just for the gameplay, she was a good Top Tier fighter.

As for Wonderwoman, while certainly not as good to play as, I feel like she had a decent role in the story mode. Her characterization was very good. Sure we could had seen a lot more and better, but that applies to everyone else as well.

I think they were spot on on all the characters regarding the way the Team developers and most fans view them, but yeah, not all of them were going to please all the fans. Just the majority, which they did.

Fanfic?

Our observations and hypothesis are a hell of a lot more based on canonical evidence than your brilliant ideas that every member of the Lin Kuei, including Smoke, should be a cryomancer or Shao Kahn is a Shokan born with only two arms.

Thi is why the constant wangsting about the storyline got me so disillusioned and why I think Rebirth is the closest thing near to perfection solution is for me.

yea i couldnt stop laughing at that i just thought the champion of mortal kombat is a retard

Pics or it didn't happen.