There's something wrong with you.

Good God. m0seph, I'm kinda blown away that you would be so biased as to refer to rational argument with intent of righting a wrong as "bitching". You spout that bs and you call others ignorant? Yes, there are some melodramatics going on right now, but that's a far cry from ignorance, an example of which you just wonderfully displayed.

That's real good. And you wonder why people are acting dramatic. This is still stupid as shit, and I'm sorry, but it's growing increasingly frustrating to see such stubbornness and inability to admit one's fault.

You wanna reach out to Garlador? Delete all this shit in this thread, and let him continue posting. There are no words do describe how insanely ridiculous these "arguments" are. "Garlador puts his name in his posts." Oh, wow. WHAT A FUCKING CRIME. It's nothing. It's a title of a series of intellectual discussions.

I'm just baffled that something so positive has been turned into shit for absolutely no fucking reason.

Don't want Garlador's name stamped all over your site? Get some more fucking posters, because right now, he's your best. And if you're trying to do that very thing... well you're not doing it right, because as of now, you've just lost another.

Give it up, Luca.
The staff seems to support SOPA/PIPA and wants to censor Garlador, limiting him as much as possible, and hides it behind lame excuses. This is their site, so they can do with it what they want and clearly don't listen to the members of the forum. There's nothing we can do about it other than leave the forum. If we all did so, then the traffic of this site would die out and then they would be the staff of a site without members.

Sad that this forum would turn around this corner, but I guess it was inevitable.

---

Hey there everybody, image guy, devout nightowl, and (usually) frequent poster, etc...here. A lot of you guys know I usually post really long messages but uhm, I gotta keep this...short...maybe? teh.

1.) Okay so, here's the thing, there's other stuff going on with the site. I understand being upset with certain changes, sure (trying not to under appreciate your concern/anger here too...it's just, I got...we had the "conversation" on this earlier so I've already been through the ups and downs of it). I can even understand the logic behind quantifying things that may seem to be illogical changes at the moment. But-tuhm, entertain me for a second, and read the following:

Imagine being the president/leader of the country you are from. There's a series of issues that are put on your plate (whether you like or not...you're the leader, right?)...n'then, once you take a good look at everything on your plate, you realize all of sudden that, each one of those issues can be, or has to be dealt with in its own individual time-frame. This goes first...that goes next...etc

From that understanding, you know that for some stuff, you can get it taken care of right away. But other stuff, you're just gonna have to put it down for a while before you can actually get to it. It's the same sort of thing that's going on here.

Except, what's happening is site-wide. There's issues here or there that have to be given immediate attention, before the "bigger picture" stuff that Mick keeps talking about can happen.
==

2.) Now, I'm not going to defend disrespectful remarks and all that but, what you should do is give us your disappointment and everything too. Send all the different mods and staff members pm's and everything...the whole nine. Because ultimately (if you are being serious), it's input that we will all (you guys included) use to make the site better in whatever way. If you don't believe me, the Hand Held forum is gone for a reason...
===

3.) This thing about consolidating Garlador's threads wasn't something we all agreed on (I f@#*ing hated it, for example....I want my Raiden thread! No bs). BUT...it's one of those measures that kinda has to be made in order for other things to work out down the line a little bit here. To think about it, there's...a larger group of better items that can work out better if this one current change happens. According to the information, our behavior as forum members and everything. YES, it's that deep rooted.

I totally agree that this suckz...I may not have posted in all of the KOTW threads but, I read most, if not all of them up til now. I also think that consolidating them down inside one thread is pretty ______...well, you fill the blank, how bout that?
====

Last here,

4.) I think we're far enough along where I can drop a lil' clue...

Changes have been being made for the past year.

Yep! While we were all arguing about Sonya's Boobs, or Kitana's hair....while we were fussing about whether Rain would be DLC or not....while we were upset to discover Freddie Kruger would be in the game (freddie f*%$&^ing Kruger!!?!! c'mon), things have been changing around you.

No, I cannot, and therefor will not talk more about them. I am however, one part of a very strong and opinionated team right now.

Just... I guess... brace yourself for some more MKO.... stuff. Right here is where I would usually say something like "Hold your fire" but....nah. Let the bodies hit the floor, yea?

back to work with me!

[[[PS: If you can remember how active I used to be....y'gotta know there's a reason why I'm not so active anymore, right? bah! later]]]

I say if they don't apologize to Garlador we should all jump ship and post somewhere else. This is moderation out of control. The most active posters on your forum are telling you its stupid and unnecessary. Instead of listening to them, you're being condescending.

Who are these changes being made for? Its certainly not for us. We don't want this kind of change on the forum. Do you get it? Your idea was wrong. It doesn't make things less cluttered, it makes it worse. Man up and admit that, for crying out loud.

I've had about enough of this. Such a bizarre thing for a moderator to be stubborn about. You got the feedback that most of us don't want this. If you don't listen to us, expect less posts here at MKO.

What I find stunning is that moderators, (for valid enough reasons, secrecy and surprises and yay) continue to be vague about what "changes" are coming, and refuse to elaborate on just why those threads are causing a problem.

Please. Explain to us how having a few threads on vaguely-related but still extremely individual and ALWAYS popular going on one page is clutter? When has anyone expressed a problem with the format? Has anyone EVER said "Oh my, my... There's two KOTW's on the page... he's getting all uppity and self-righteous"...

NO. So what's the problem? Please, explain!

You say you're trying to create a system that makes posts easier to find... awesome! But how are the KOTW's in the format they are now causing problems? How are they spamming or self-promoting? What exactly is the freaking problem?

Notice how those separate threads very quickly pass into pages 2/3/4 as the conversation dies... just like any other regular topic? Notice how only one of those threads has regularly resurfaced, based simply on Garlador's awesome efforts with the Sonya renders? How is that clutter?!

I've been on an inordinate amount of message boards before and I cannot for the life of me figure out just what the heck will be achieved by consolidating the only regular, successful series of posts into one, huge, unwieldy, ugly and impossible to navigate mess...

The thing I LOVED about these KOTW threads is that we in fact got LESS clutter than ever before! Remember pre-release when we had six threads on Sonya's outfit alone, three on Kitana's and four different arguments on how Kitana VS Mileena wasn't as good as it used to be? Well... now they each have a helpful spot on their own! How many threads have been saved because Garlador posted his Sonya fan-edits into the Sonya thread rather than posting into a separate one? How much easier did it make it for me, an obvious Sonya fan, to easily see where I wanted to have a look when I visited the next time...



BUT OKAY... Let's go with the hypothetical "it will make it a little bit more organized"...

A few questions:

1. How much of a benefit will it genuinely have on this site? When topics were plentiful, the posters abounded, regardless of how cluttered or messy the list got... Spam was rightfully done away with and interesting topics flourished. On other message boards the same happens, even with LESS strict moderators than this one (To be blunt I have never seen a team of moderators so dedicated to keeping things "on topic" to the detriment of theboard).... What tangible benefits will this provide, remembering that it's not "organised but out-of-date and dull topics" that make a board succeed.

2. How much of a NEGATIVE effect will it have, both on the board, its members AND to Garlador's efforts and creativity? We already know that several posters at the least only return every week to see if a new KOTW has been posted... I know that's the only reason I return as often as I do. We already know that they are by far the most popular/most posted in threads... Just look at this very thread we're posting in now! (Though to be fair, a lot of that was just Garlador, Quevey and myself...)... But what will happen if Garlador has to stop or move it somewhere else?
The "compromise" solution would be a genuine deal-killer. Who wants to sift through dozens of pages for the character they like? Who wants to abandon interesting conversation of one week's character so they can move onto the next? Who wants to police the thread to tell people "that conversation's out of date move on!"
The KOTW's, while a) hilarious and b)interesting, also provided a consistent draw to bring people to the site, something original and thought provoking that MKO should be doing everything it can to cultivate its success...

So please, again, explain to me what we all seem to be missing... I'm sure none of us are trying to be rude, and I will admit the SOPA allusions seem a bit over the top, but when so much of the user-base who actually generates the content seems discontent with a decision... why should we just roll over and take it when the moderator ssay "deal with it"... as one seemed to suggest, above... Just because we're not happy with a decision doesn't make us whiners, complainers, or bitchers... Perhaps it just makes those making the decisions blind to what actually works to make this a more successful message board in the absence of an upcoming game...?

To summarise, in a round about fashion: No satisfactory explanation has been given except vague, pandering and piss-poor suggestions of "Oh just wait you'll see in the end!"... None of the reasoning seems valid, or justified, and most (if not all) the reasons for this odd change seem to be hastily thought of, defensive and stubborn. If we could actually have a conversation about these upcoming changes without being treated like we're whiny bitches because we don't like overly strict post-control, maybe we would get somewhere...

You're driving people away with this mischief. We should be talking about fighting, not fighting about talking.
...
(Come on... that was well punned...)

Indeed. You'll have to excuse some of us if the "changes are coming" card doesn't fly right now; no offense, but that sounds VERY familiar. I'll personally believe it when I see it, not before. Heck, the thought of this site being updated or changed never crosses my mind anymore; I'm so used to seeing it the way it is.

How very convenient that everything regarding the offenses, bullying and disrespectful remarks made against Garlador were absolutely ignored and shoved to the side as if that had never happened.

He deserves an apology, at the very least.

I haven't posed in MKO for a while and had plans to come back to do so later (because I still love this site), but, I just couldn't ignore this situation. I'm sorry, but, you guys are avoiding and ignoring the REAL questions and the REAL problems here. Why do you think everyone else is still trying to make some sense of the bullshit that we keep hearing? Why do you think people keep asking you to please answer the questions that matter? To explain what you keep avoiding with patronizing excuses?

It's not like everyone is against you for being you or against the idea of a new and better MKO, no. People are reacting this way because you have failed to properly address the real issues and questions that keep being repeated over and over by that "small group of users" who just so happen to be among the only and most active in the entire board.

You are generalizing and diminishing everything with condescending excuses to look as simple and as undramatic as possible, but, you have given absolutely no answer to the pressing questions that would actually help to make some sense out of this mess and no apology to Garlador for the disrespectful way in which he was treated.

No one is against MKO becoming a better place, but, do your job and address your members as a part of the family and not as if they were all stupid ugly animals who are simply lucky and privileged to be getting favors from you.

My thoughts exactly. If I were in Garlador's shoes,I would just leave after that kind of treatment. It is for the threads like KOTW I keep coming to these forums,where I can have fun and proper discussion with fellow story followers. And the mods NOT only wanna ruin it,but disrespect the very creator of that topics,saying some nonsense like "MKO becomes Garlador Online" or some shit.

I see the big picture,I really do,mods.You want to change some stuff here,to make this site work better. If it is for the benefit of MKO,I fully support it. BUT,be careful,because by the time you guys finish your "changes",there is gonna be no one left here discussing anything with such kind of attitude.

Edit: Whatever...

I repeat: I haven't posed in MKO for a while and I had plans to come back to do so later (because I, honestly, still love this site), but, I just couldn't ignore this situation...

The saddest thing about this mess is that it could have been avoided had there been some kind of common sense:

Courtesy, politeness, humbleness and respect take you a long way.

We are all part of the MKO family, some of us are new, some of us are veterans, but, no matter the status, we all deserve respect and proper answers...and we are getting neither.

Espio: Why did you edit your message? You said nothing wrong and you simply voiced your opinion.



"Small group of users".....?

Yeah, right.



Excuse me, but, why should I feel obliged and forced to post in "other threads" if I don't find them relevant or interesting to what I wish to discuss in one of Garladors KOTW?

It's not like Garlador is stopping anyone from posting in other threads (which don't even exist considering the low traffic), and its not like we DONT post in other threads, and its certainly not like we need to feel obliged and forced to do so by you or anyone.

I feel like I'm suddenly being told were to post and were to limit my posts.



You are ruining his KOTW threads. Why don't you want to hear what everyone is trying to explain to you?

I wasn't going to say anything about Moseph's post, but I'm going to directly address how amusing it is that he's talking about "bitching" when he spent months prior to leaving from his position, complaining about stuff on this site...odd that it was okay to do that, but it's not okay now..please.







Quoted for the damn truth.


I just feel an apology should be given to Garlador.

There haven't been any insults. That is a case of misinterpretation of what is being communicated, and/or a bit of self-motivated invention. You do need to respect what has actually been said, regardless of preferred meaning.

Guys, you need to get back on topic. Again, this is a Mortal Kombat forum.
You need to get this enthusiasm back on the topic as it exists, or you are going to condemn it to closure. A sense of order has been introduced that you aren't used to. You're going to need to make some effort to get used to it. Dubious arguments and deliberate misinterpretation aren't going to sway this. This is actively destroying the material, not the format change.

If the topic does not steer back to its original material, it will need to be closed. Again; be invited to find a clearer path forward in the most recent of these posts, concerning Kano. That is a fine place to continue forward. It's also a fine way to show that the material is what's important, not the rabble.

Look. It's not complicated.

Mick gave two reasons why Garlador's threads are under fire:

1. Cluttering - Stating that multiple threads violates forum policy and condones future similar behavior.

2. Hogging the Spotlight - Stating that by allowing the posts to continue unmodified is to condone special attention given to Garlador.

Each point has been rationally addressed by multiple long time forum users (sometime not so rationally) where it became evident that the reasons given by Mick don't work. Let's start with the organizational reason. 1. This is by far the most bizarre justification as Garlador's threads are far from causing forum clutter and are relevant character analysis. The only viable suggestion given by Mick and Mime were to consolidate into one super thread or take it off MKO to a blog. Again multiple people pointed out how one large massive thread would ultimately lead to disjointed and cluttered conversation and actually be LESS organized.

I think it's the 2nd reason given that has left a bad taste in the community's mouth as it implies something a bit more judgemental or censoring.
EDIT:

Mick man you closed the first thread opened to discuss this issue. Not moved to another forum but outright CLOSED. Now we all had to scramble to one of Garlador's KOTW to be able to continue the discussion.

Mick: Because it's time to start backing up this support and talking about MK in the MK forum, as intended. Everyone has made their discomfort known, time to move on or damn it to closure.
EDIT 2:
Fair enough and in an effort to keep this thread from being closed I'll advocate for people to bring all of their opinions to a newly opened thread in the General Discussion. A lot of us still strongly disagree with this admin decision and it seems like it's being dismissed as over and done with.

Agreed. None of this is personal. Us as administration back Mick up on this. So in the spirit of cooperation:

Sonya Blade - She's pretty cool. Always standing up for us Earthrealm folk. Team USA. Girl Power. Thoughts?

This is not tolerable. You guys are wrong. Not one poster is defending your ridiculous choice. Doesn't that say something to? Who the hell are you doing this for, if its not for your active members - who dont want it?

Back on topic, please.

Wow, this is really hilarious. I haven't been here in a while, and i ceirtanly i'm not a very active member of the comunity when it comes to comment. But I read a lot and i spend a lot of time in here, and with that being said, i don't understand why one of the most active posts (as Garladors KOTW are) could not be separeted. It's not like he is posting one a day, some times there are less than one a week. I'm rather dissapointed by the MKO staff, basically your position is "Things are going to change, if you don't like it, go somewhere else" That is no good, and the "Galardos Kombat Online" thing was ridicoulous, Mick, you clearly said MKO was for the comunity, and you've seen it, most of the users who posted about it think Garladors KOTW posts should remain how they are now, having them all in one huge trhead would be very confusing, i just don't know why you can't see it. And this is not a rant, and i'm not about change on the forum itself, but this is not something that would help the forum.

I'm disappointed that users claiming to be in support of this material aren't making more of an effort to support it. That would have been preferred.