WTF (People to watch out for online)
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 04:37 PM EST
TonyTheTiger Wrote:
The only thing that counts as fighting "fair" is not yanking the other guy's controller out or covering his eyes. If it's in the game, the it's fair game. If it shouldn't be in the game in the first place then the game sucks and you should play something better. Blame the game.

All I'm saying is that I don't spam moves over and over again, or exploit glitches every chance I get (like some people I've played). I want to gain the person I beat's respect, not just add another "W" to my record.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 04:45 PM EST
and how do u gain resecpt, but useing useless moves in a moveset. Some of you people make no sense. if i sweep u 16 times in a rd, and u dont duck, thats being cheap and spaming a move??
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 05:06 PM EST
redsaleen02 Wrote:
and how do u gain resecpt, but useing useless moves in a moveset. Some of you people make no sense. if i sweep u 16 times in a rd, and u dont duck, thats being cheap and spaming a move??

No, no. That's not what I'm saying at all. I just like to add variety to a fight, not just do the same thing every time. It make the fight boring, really. I'm ok with someone spamming the same thing over and over again, it just doesn't float my boat.
Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 05:27 PM EST
redsaleen02 Wrote:
and how do u gain resecpt, but useing useless moves in a moveset. Some of you people make no sense. if i sweep u 16 times in a rd, and u dont duck, thats being cheap and spaming a move??


I'm beginning to think "spamming a move" is a Trojan Horse term for "won't give me a chance to win."

-[?]- Wrote:
redsaleen02 Wrote:
and how do u gain resecpt, but useing useless moves in a moveset. Some of you people make no sense. if i sweep u 16 times in a rd, and u dont duck, thats being cheap and spaming a move??

No, no. That's not what I'm saying at all. I just like to add variety to a fight, not just do the same thing every time. It make the fight boring, really. I'm ok with someone spamming the same thing over and over again, it just doesn't float my boat.


I don't think anyone said that it can never be boring. I damn near fall asleep when I watch good Sagat players in Super Turbo. But the things that tend to not be boring such as really crazy combo vids on Youtube are highly impractical in real matches.

A good example is Guile's roundhouse Flash Kick. It's too risky. You put yourself in a bad position if you use it. Well, not using it means you're fighting with less variety but if you do use it for the sake of variety then you're more likely to lose the match. Not all moves are created equal. Some are naturally spammable while others are naturally useless.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 05:39 PM EST
to me it ruins good fights using moves over and over means to me that i hav to adjust and kick that a-s-s
I feel so alone, gonna end up a Big ole pile of them bones.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 05:51 PM EST
annilation Wrote:
to me it ruins good fights using moves over and over means to me that i hav to adjust and kick that a-s-s

5LW = A D A P T
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 05:53 PM EST
Never-freakin-mind. Nobody will ever understand what I'm trying to say, because they just don't get it. I'm done here, I'll see you guys online.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 05:58 PM EST
-[?]- Wrote:
Never-freakin-mind. Nobody will ever understand what I'm trying to say, because they just don't get it. I'm done here, I'll see you guys online.


I know exactly what you're saying. Basically, you'd rather use a variety of moves because you find that more entertaining. That's fine if that's your cup of tea. Just don't be surprised if you lose matches because of it since someone else's play style might be more optimized than yours. That's all I'm saying.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 06:04 PM EST
so it's alright to use moves that are cheap if they're in the game but not infinites?

i don't get it.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 06:18 PM EST
oracle Wrote:
so it's alright to use moves that are cheap if they're in the game but not infinites?

i don't get it.

Infinites are different. Some are un-escapable. It's alright to quit. But cheap moves can be avoided, with the right kind of defense and offense.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 06:20 PM EST
how is a more cheap, cause you dont have the abilty to figure out how to stop it. there are moves in games that are 100% safe , meaning u cannot block and counter them, that does not make the move cheap.

even bo,s f3 was not cheap
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 06:43 PM EST
oracle Wrote:
so it's alright to use moves that are cheap if they're in the game but not infinites?

i don't get it.


First, can we stop using the word "cheap"? It doesn't have a clear cut definition so why don't we be a little more specific. I'm going to assume that you mean safe moves. Well, a jab is a safe move. It beats mostly everything else except blocking and maybe ducking if it hits high. You have unblockable moves like Scorpion's Hellfire but that can be rolled out of or sidestepped most of the time. There are not many moves that beat absolutely everything. Even Dairou's Tombstone Drop could be beaten by jumping. So long as there is at least some way around the move I don't think the word "cheap" is appropriate. Unbalanced, maybe. But not "cheap."

And not all infinites are considered inappropriate to use in competitive play. Some infinites that can be done only under certain conditions or are particularly difficult to do are often allowed in tournaments. See Tekken or MvC2.

If there are a lot of pathetically easy infinites *cough*MKD/MKA*cough* then people have to do whatever they can to make an otherwise terrible game palatable. So the players come together and agree on certain restrictions because if those restrictions don't exist then nobody will enjoy the game.

But I promote this philosophy: If a game requires that much doctoring to be fun then the people who are playing the game are wasting their time and money and should shun that game and play something better. I won't use an infinite in MKA mostly because I won't play MKA. It's too pathetic. Either I have to deal with a game with 200 piss easy infinites or I have to deal with a game that is so poorly made that there are "rules" that I have to follow in order to make the game tolerable. No thank you.

But the most important distinction between infinites and other moves is that they tend to be easy to isolate. It's much easier to say "You can do anything except trap someone in a ground pound loop" rather than say "You can't do this move under this or that circumstance and you can't do this move more than 3 times in a row, and so on and so forth." People have different definitions of what constitutes "cheapness" whereas an infinite is pretty straightforward. Hence why I think the word "cheap" is useless as far as fighting game terminology goes.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 06:57 PM EST
You know, I mostly agree with the people who deem spamming permissible.

But I will say I don't like the Smash Bros Brawl parallels. Spamming has an entirely different utility in Brawl, especially when you're in four-player free-for-all.

I'll concede that spamming can be dishonorable (to avoid the word 'cheap') from context-to-context basis. I recall innumerable frustrations from the MvsC2 days of endless turtling. My blood boils just thinking about it. The constant retreat/projectile strategy against a character with an weak offense is nothing short of scorn-worthy.

I can't say if there are any contexts in MKvDC that yield dishonorable spamming, being that I haven't played the game, but if there is ever case where the only solution is to "use a better character," than something is not right.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/21/2008 07:10 PM EST
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
You know, I mostly agree with the people who deem spamming permissible.

But I will say I don't like the Smash Bros Brawl parallels. Spamming has an entirely different utility in Brawl, especially when you're in four-player free-for-all.


Smash isn't even a real fighting game in the traditional sense so any comparison to it is dubious at best, so I agree with you there. "Arena fighter" or something would be an appropriate sub-genre to put it.


TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I'll concede that spamming can be dishonorable (to avoid the word 'cheap') from context-to-context basis. I recall innumerable frustrations from the MvsC2 days of endless turtling. My blood boils just thinking about it. The constant retreat/projectile strategy against a character with an weak offense is nothing short of scorn-worthy.


One thing about MvC2 is that it's really a game with only 7 or 8 characters. As sad as that is (since none of them are ones I like to use sans maybe Captain Commando) people love playing with those few. Send someone in with Akuma or Guile and they'll be pretty angry regardless of their skill level. MvC2 is a rare breed as it managed to become popular in spite of it's horrific balance because of the dumb luck that among the top few there is pretty decent balance. Unfortunately, there's no fix for this. Either you have to play with the top dogs or lose the match. I, sadly, choose to lose the match.


TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I can't say if there are any contexts in MKvDC that yield dishonorable spamming, being that I haven't played the game, but if there is ever case where the only solution is to "use a better character," than something is not right.


I haven't noticed anything aside from Superman's infinite that doesn't have some kind of answer. Some characters have more limited answers in relation to certain moves but that's always going to be the case.
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RE: WTF (People to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 04:44 AM EST
It's a 1 and a 0, a hit box, a texture, a grouping of polygons. Little particles of light moving from left to right. The point of a fighting game is to deplete the pixels in you opponents life bar in the most efficient manner possible. The point of a fighting game is to control those particles of light in a manner that benefits you.

Quit bitching. Quit wasting time on a fucking internet board crying about arbitrary, intangible shit. Sit your ass down, put in the time, make the mistakes and fail. Then ask yourself why you suck and why move A is causing you to get angry at polygons and little particles of light. Ask yourself why your keep getting raped by the SAME shit, over and over.

Then fix it. Don't bitch about it, fucking fix it. Are you reading this shit. Get the fuck off MKO and play that shit. Put in the time. Shut your mouth, look at your loss record and ask, why? Use your brain, lose the ego, and fucking fix it. Every good player does it. You dont' care about getting good? Then why are you even bitching in the first place?

Shut your mouth, sit your ass down, take a deep breath....and fix it.

PS: MK is a broken peice of trash. Play Virtua Fighter smile
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 06:17 AM EST
Satyagraha Wrote:
I noticed the lex corner trap infinite, jax/clark ground pound; is there still TSD crap in this game? Rage looks interesting; I noticed it hits at a certain range, is it unblockable? Can you buffer/cancel into moves, strings, combo with it? Like launcher, dash in, rage, continue combo or string, cancel w/ rage, combo?


1. I don't know about the TSD thing, but I can tell you that I've been able to block when someone "RAGE's". I don't think that's supposed to happen though. I think it's supposed to be unblockable to a certain circumference around the character on the screen.

2. The answer to your third question is...silly. Some characters have some things. Like, Kano has a parry, Raiden can cancel out of charging his lightning attack, Sub-Zero has a buffer cancel out of his clone move that I've seen folks do coming out of his teleport. It happens quick, and is kinda freaky to see at first.

Also, RAGE isn't a technical piece of a combo that I've been able to control in such a way. It's more, just a "tool" that can be used to continue assaulting my opponent. You can't control it in a string situation. I haven't seen or done it myself, and I would think that the shoulder buttons (360) pressed together don't really allow a flow of continuity in a string situation any way.

But you know, it's ended alot of combos for me with Raiden. A simple example is Raiden's *x,x,x,L1+R1 (or triggers)* . Three punches, rage.

===

Another thing I wanted to mention is about combos. You can't string "absolutely anything" together. But it does give a decent amount of flexibility. The coined "Pro Moves" allow particular movement outside that "x,x,x" example I gave.

An example that people experience from me is something like *x,x, close lightning strike, torpedo* without any real pause. However, the main appeal I find is that it feels like MK2-T. I'd describe it as MK2-T without as many parts to a combo (imagine mask-less Sub-Zero's UMK3 combo being only three hits long), and without the options to control some of the parts to MK3-T's very cinematic dial a combos. But it feels similar to those games once you get going on someone. Hm...

They didn't differentiate Hp from Lp, Hk from Lk so much this time. (Unless you're ducking of course) Things just hit like they hit depending on the character you're playing with, and the moves that they gave that character. Some of the common sense is still missing, but it doesn't hinder how you fight too much. You end up falling into "a way to fight" instead of really designing "how you want to fight". And this is because the move lists are not really that long.

They give a decent set of commands....that promotes us to figure out our own way to use the character (great), but there's not much to figure out because there are not enough options built into the character to really warrant that solicitation.

So anyway, it's not bad, it's a long time coming actually, but it's not done either. It's not "good/great", it's "okay for now".

They should keep this mechanic, because it's fine. NOW?, they should revisit some of the longest combos from the older games, and figure out how to simplify, and give us control of "the jab, the elbow, and the back-hand..........the knee, the high kick, and the round-house". haha..



See? Right now we're close...but because it's all that exist in this game, we only have control of the "the knee, and the round-house"...for instance. lol It's working, but there's some common sense, and a little bit of control still missing.

If they fix this stuff, I'd rave.

Satyagraha Wrote:
Edit: watched some more vids. Can Kitana control space as well as it looks? Her fans seem to have a funky hit box, too.


Mmm...yea. But I feel the same way about the hit box even after playing the thing for a while now. I think it's because she can throw her fans from damn near anywhere. She moves around really well overall. Rolling on the ground, that square punch she used to have, the fan lift, the fan throw....you gotta worry about it all over again if you play with Raiden like I do.

She also has a nice combo that I won't spoil, and a fan slice thing. Kitana's dope in this game to me.

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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 04:21 PM EST
Awesome, EXCELLENT stuff bro. Thumbs up and a beer for you. smile I'm taking an extended thanksgiving starting this Monday. Plan on playing this quite a bit with a buddy. Have a huge final due the following Monday, though...hope I don't get side tracked, lol.

Again, thanks for the info. Looking forward to playing it.

Edit: I see there's a "3d movement" option on the controls. How important is this? If I decide to play on stick, am I going to be SOL?
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 05:15 PM EST
True that it should actually be easier to beat these spammers once you catch on, but to say that its how to play the game is kind of ridiculous. The online is supposed to replicate as best it can the arcade, in which you could never get away with crap like that, but online, when you are anonymous all is fair I suppose.
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 05:29 PM EST
Satyagraha Wrote:
Edit: I see there's a "3d movement" option on the controls. How important is this? If I decide to play on stick, am I going to be SOL?


There are two ways to move in 3d. You can use the analog stick or you can hold down a button and use the d-pad. So if you use a stick you'll just have a six button setup. 4 attack buttons where 1+3 = throw and 2+4 = Klose Kombat, a block button, and a 3d movement button. To be honest, I haven't found much use for the 3d movement anyway aside from dodging telegraphed projectiles or moving around the arena for whatever reason. You can't sidestep, punish in this game so easily, if at all.

slbenfica311 Wrote:
True that it should actually be easier to beat these spammers once you catch on, but to say that its how to play the game is kind of ridiculous. The online is supposed to replicate as best it can the arcade, in which you could never get away with crap like that, but online, when you are anonymous all is fair I suppose.


You serious? Have you ever been to an arcade? People don't hold back in an arcade setting any more than they do online. The only thing that people wouldn't do as much of in an arcade is the extreme trash talking because of the risk of getting your ass kicked. Whereas online people go as far as to say racist shit all the time.
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 05:37 PM EST
EDIT: What TTT said. lol
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 05:50 PM EST
People spam in the arcades, that's where it started, lol. This is how I look at it, and I come from the old school, traditional arcade background.

The age old comment that the WINNER always has to deal with is "Man, so you play just to win, not to have fun, huh?" Followed by "So, you like to play cheap, don't you?"

Firstly. No, I don't play just to win. I guaran-damn-tee you that I'm having a blast beasting on your ass, lol. And I'm having a blast playing against the other high level player who's trying to beast my ass. We share a common ground; trying to improve our skills. Improvement is one of the most pure forms of joy one can have.

Secondly. No, I don't just play to win, but I guaran-damn-tee you that I'm not playing to lose. Frankly, it's rather retarded bitching about someone who plays to get a win, when the entire point of the game is to, well...win, lol.

Trust me, play to.win. Don't complain, just win. I promise you will have loads of fun LEARNING HOW TO WIN. More so than some superficial ideology on 'variety' or "honor" This isn't feudal Japan. It's some bitch in his basement eating cheetos, lol.

People are so afraid to admit failure. "It's not that I screwed up or they're better than me,they're just playing cheap, damnit!!" It takes way more effort to fix your problems than it does to shift the blame and take on the responsibilities. Don't be afraid to fail, don't be afraid to admit that you suck. take it in stride, learn and fix it. Dealing with spam, and using it, is all part of the process.
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/22/2008 06:28 PM EST
TonyTheTiger Wrote:
Satyagraha Wrote:
Edit: I see there's a "3d movement" option on the controls. How important is this? If I decide to play on stick, am I going to be SOL?


There are two ways to move in 3d. You can use the analog stick or you can hold down a button and use the d-pad. So if you use a stick you'll just have a six button setup. 4 attack buttons where 1+3 = throw and 2+4 = Klose Kombat, a block button, and a 3d movement button. To be honest, I haven't found much use for the 3d movement anyway aside from dodging telegraphed projectiles or moving around the arena for whatever reason. You can't sidestep, punish in this game so easily, if at all.


You know, you can "Trigger+Stick"....Or "D-Pad+Trigger" and move both ways?

I don't know if that's supposed to be that way, but I've found that it takes less effort moving my fingers around.

: Stick only = 360 degrees

: Trigger + Stick = back and forth, duck and jump

: D-Pad = back and forth, duck and jump

: Trigger + D-Pad = 360 degrees

I ran into it on accident, lost the fight because of it, but it was a cool find.
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/23/2008 03:06 PM EST
Awesome, thanks for the info peeps. Haven't been this excited to actually play MK in some time.
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/23/2008 03:27 PM EST
People that spam The Flash are cheap..
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RE: WTF (Assholes to watch out for online)
11/23/2008 03:45 PM EST
The Thread starter obviously sucks at this game.
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