I figured we could all rant, or let this comic do the talking for us.

ok let me get this straight if your fans of DC... what are you doing on Mortal Kombat website, you know is very simple you just wright this- WarnerBros Kids.com and there you are..................................................... . for Bezou if like Chan Li Liu Kang whatever that much you should buy Mortal Kombat 1

More! lol

Hahaha! That's fucking hilarious!

come now. what fun is this neat little thread when we can always make our own disgruntled threads written in all caps like:

"OMG! MKVSDC IS THE SUXORS!!@!!%"


seriously, though, it's going to be a great game.

Here's my rant:


It's a videogame, a fighting game at that. Gameplay comes first, fluff comes second. DC characters are in, fatalities are out. GET OVER IT!


Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I can explain why this is a good thing. A game (MK) that focuses on gore and not on the actual fighting mechanic cannot possibly be taken seriously by the gaming public for long periods of time. Yes, the initial shock value of MK was its selling point, but that has sense faded away due to the miriad of other games who's gore exceeds MK's own.

So why try to keep up with the Jones's by focusing soley on gore? The answer is not to. The team needs to focus on presentation, gameplay and quality, not gore. They should still retain the level of violence, but there is no need to cut off someone's head. Take a look at the over the top Blazin moves for Def Jam Fight for NY on Youtube and you'll see how brutal finishers can be without being gory. The gameplay in that game is excellent.

Now, the inclusion of the DC characters may seem wierd and gimmicky, but it is a nice touch in my opinion. Most Non-MK fan's interest in the game has been sparked by this news. Even gamers on SRK (www.Shoryuken.com) have expressed interest in the game now that the focus on gore is no longer the main point of MK vs DC.

They are laughing at all of you because your precious fatalities are gone. They plan on buying the game therefore, replacing all of you who will not buy the game.

I'm laughing too. I say, if the game sucks, pass on it, but if it's good, why screw yourself out of a great experience?

I tend to use common sense when it comes to these issues.


Peace

God that was a delicious post.

ummmm where is the 2d mk? i miss john tobias. dont bash me but seriously mk is at the bottom unless i can pull a brutality on batman :)

For this game coming out this year there sure is little known about it. All kinds of games have coverage a year in advance with general info about the game. Not even a slew of screen shots. Weak!!

I don't care about the missing fatalities. Quite frankly I almost never used them. What does bother me is the inclusion of characters from a vastly different (and far less mature) universe. I doubt the people at shoryuken.com would appreciate it too much if the next street fighter game were Street Fighter vs. Pokemon. Particularly, if capcom WEREN'T CLEAR about whether or not the game was canon. If there were a trailer showing Ryu fight Pikachu I don't think any amount of good gameplay could stop the rants.

You have obviously never read a DC comic in your entire life. If you have, you may not have read Kindom Come, or the Crisis series just to say the least. Those books are far more mature than you could even phathom. You must be basing your opinions about DC on the old Super Friends cartoon from the 70's.

SHAME ON YOU!

Street Fighter has crossed over with X-Men and other Marvel characters. Though X-Men had nothing to do with Street Fighter, the game played well and sold well. DC has murderous villians like Darkseid and Doomsday who kill for the hell of it. They don't need a tournament to fill their kill quota, they just kill because they can. Superman fights his inner demons to keep himself from ruling the earth as he sees fit, and from killing apprehended criminals.

Wonder woman has killed many in her books as well. I have no idea where you guys are basing your notions of DC on. This new MK game will more than likely not be cannon. It's a crossover game just like Marvel vs DC was before it. If it were to be cannon, you can expect DC to buy the rights to MK characters and put forth monthly comics to further the story after the game's ending.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

By the way, you cannot compare characters such as Darkseid, Doomsday or even Batman to Picachu. That analogy was no where near close. Just relax and accept was has already come to pass. No amount of ranting will make Midway change their minds on the money they spent licensing the DC characters.


Peace

I'm an avid comic collector and talking down to me serves no purpose. I'm aware of DCs ability to do mature storylines. Unfortunately, they rarely do.

The sad part is it seems you missed the point of my post, and I hope noone else does either. To clarify, I do not think DC comics is completely worthless. I buy them on a regular basis. What I had a problem with was the suggestion that Mortal Kombat is just about the violence, and that all the ranters were doing was whining about the lack of fatalities.
Although the game certainly has the ability to be great, and if Geoff Johns has anything to do with the writing from DC, it probably will be, The two franchises are horribly mismatched in style and mood. (with the exception of The Dark Knight. It's no accident he was the one in the trailer).

The Pikachu comparison was an exaggeration to show the same potential rants from street fighter fans. I suppose you could say, my only "rant" was againt the earlier rant against the ranters.

I like DC so I think the game could be cool. Especially if the game plays well of course. The past 3 MK's have been sad in the gameplay dept.

I wasn't talking down to you. Also, I didn't miss the point of your post. I thought your post was rather comical from a logistical standpoint. Take it easy man, as I was only trying to get you to see reality as it is now. These are imaginary characters in an imaginary setting. The worlds created for them are very similar in mood weather you or anyone else agrees or not.

Do you really care that much about the inclusion of another company's fictional characters so much that it disturbs you? I find that both facinating and puzzling from an adult point of view.


peace

Do I really care about this collision between franchises? No, I don't. I don't think I ever said I did. I do however, think it is reasonable for other people to be upset by this and have a rant thread.

What made me post, was the sentence that said the shoryuken crowd was laughing at us for being sad over losing our precious fatalities. I was trying to illustrate why the complaints on this board weren't completely unreasonable. People have said numerous times to stop complaining about what's already happend, but if they do not, how do they get represented at Midway? It's not like they were given a chance to show their hatred for this idea before it happend. Does anyone remember the Clone Saga in Spider-Man comics? They replaced Peter Parker with Ben Reilly and everyone flipped out and stopped buying the mag. It wasn't long before Peter was back.
I don't see what I've said that was so ridiculous. Granted, the pikachu comparison was a little extreme but it illustrates the problem some people have with this merger. I haven't said that DC sucks, I haven't said that this game will suck. I haven't even said that I'm considering not paying full retail for the game. All I'm saying is that it's completely reasonable to have a problem with your fictions colliding.

Oh and if I misread the tone of your earlier post, I apologize. Web Forum bloopers I guess

No problem man, I understand your point man, believe me I do. The reference to Ben Reily really hits it home, I remember that. But, keep the faith, this game may turn out better than expected. I am still skeptical of the "improved" gameplay though. If there's a rant from me, it's going to be about making the gameplay more intuitive and less of a memorization game like the last three titles.

The game needs 2 in 1's, throw escapes, counters, improved wake ups, forward dashing a limit to the amount of juggle hits to prevent 100% combos and proper damage scaling.


Peace

First of all, I would like to clarify that I have both read comics and played MK for years.
I think this idea could work well story-wise, but I just don't think the two sets of characters will mix well in game-play.
The MK characters are vicious and constantly kill their enemies in grusome manners. The majority of DC heroes, while formidable warriors, refuse to even consider killing an option. Plenty of villains and lesser known characters would fit in better, but they do not make an iconic roster.
As much as I enjoyed playing the Marvel vs. Capcom games, the one thing tha never quit bugging me was that Capcom kept using the license to make more vs. games, instead of developing a more expansive and exculsive Marvel fighting game.
And I might as well add here that I don't see any fighting game featuring an iconic DC roster really working for one reason: it would have to include both Batman and Superman. The other DC heroes (Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, ect...) can arguably fit in the middle: they're powerful enough to hold their own against Superman, while still somewhat vulnruable to Batman's attacks. But Batman vs. Superman is just too one sided. Yes, Batman has defeated Superman in the past, but that was because he was smart enough to engage Superman dirrectly in physical combat. That option is not available in MK.
As for magic and the lack of yellow sun light weakening Superman in the game, not having access to his powers takes the whole point out of playing Superman. It would be like if you couldn't use Sub-Zero's freezing powers or Scorpion's harpoon.
Any thoughts...?

That's some good stuff! I actually laughed for that one

My 2 cent rant on this absurdity...

Like many others, I was/am disappointed with the news that the so-called MK8 was going to be a goofy crossover with DC comics. And it is goofy. ANY crossover is inherently goofy, regardless of straight it's played. Some are moreso than others...but at the end of the day, doing a crossover is just bizarre thing to do.

And this was disappointing because I..and I don't think I'm alone...was led to believe that MK8 was going to be a new chapter in the MK saga, supposedly darker and grittier, with a revamped & streamlined roster. And doing a crossover with DC...kind of clashes with that. Now I like DC comics, but that doesn't mean I wanted to see Mortal Kombat "meet" it. Aside from the inherent goofiness, it just seemed like the MK team was...once again...banking on gimmicks over making a quality game.

Disappointing...but I'm, for the most part, over that. How long can one stay mad at the situation? And it's not like Mortal Kombat hasn't done stupid and goofy things in the past. Perhaps my expectations have been lowered so much over the past few years...but at this point, the DC corssover hasn't swayed me.

Mainly because of the high probablity the game's story will be non-canon and the hope that by MK9, things will be back on track. So with that in mind, I don't mind them doing this silly little crossover game just for the hell of it. As long as that is all it is.

I must say I'm astounded by the ignorance being displayed by some of the MK fanbase. Claims that MK has "sold out" by doing this...or that DC isn't "dark" enough for MK...or that this has somehow destroyed Mortal Kombat's reputation.

First of all...exactly what reptutation has been soiled by this game? Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't Mortal Kombat widely considered the laughing stock of the gaming community? Is it not notorious for an over-reliance on gimmicks, aesthetics, and bullshit over quality and gameplay? Whatever "damage" to Mortal Kombat's reputation this game has done or will do was already there a long time ago.

Now the second issue on selling out. Give me a fucking break. Yes, Mortal Kombat sold out...but it wasn't with this game. Mortal Kombat sold out a LONG time ago. To start, how have they sold out? By catering to a mass audience? By toning down the violence? By marketing to a potentiall younger crowd? Guess what: THEY DID THAT WITH THE MOVIES! Does no one remember Defenders of the Realm? Mortal Kombat was already bought and sold long before this game was even conceived.

And finally, the whole "DC isn't dark" nonsense. I'm in shock that people keep referring to the old Batman TV show from the 60's. First of all, Batman isn't like that anymore. Where the fuck have you been for the past thirty years? And again...like Mortal Kombat hasn't had cheesey shows and movies?

"Yes, Liu Kang! Feel you Animality!" in the secnd movie or Sonya shouting "It's Kombat time!" on the cartoon. Everyone points to the brightly-colored spandex a lot of DC's characters wear...blissfully ignoring the brightly-colored spandex a lot of MK's characters wore (and some still wear). DC can...and has...easily out-darked Mortal Kombat many times.

However...while DC can most certainly go to dark places, I do understand the concern that the DC characters might not exactly fit with the MK crew. While Wonder Woman has lopped off her share of heads, she is not a "dark" character, nor is she meant to be. Same can be said with a lot of DC's characters. The issue here isn't so much a question of which is more "dark"...this really just goes back to the inherrent goofiness of doing a crossover.

I'm vaguely worried/intrigued by the roster issue. My favorite Mortal Kombat character and favorite DC character are both "icons" of their franchises...see sig....so I'm confident they'll be in. I'm more concerned with who else on the MK side will be considered "icons."

Most everyone is banking on pretty much the entire MK1 cast...which depresses me to no end. I know Liu Kang will most likely be in it...but the idea of him being considered an "icon" just sickens me. And it really saddens me that losers like Johnny Cage, Kano, and a few others may actually be considered greater "icons" than more deserving characters. Bleh.

All in all, I have no real expectations for MK vs. DC. I'm not excited about it...but I'm not really pissed off about it either. In all honestly, I'm just rolling with the punches and watching to see how things play out. At the end of the day, as long as the gameplay is good, Kitana & Wonder Woman are in and turn out okay, and the story is non-canon & MK9 returns to normal.....won't bug me.

1. Most of you are fucking sheep that cant get off Boons dick. You were all pissed when the game was announced, and now everybody is all into it. Your buying into a sell out so fuck you guys that are embracing this piece of shit.

2. You assholes talking about Gameplay coming first apparently have never played a fucking Mortal Kombat game in your life. Since when did anyone play Mortal Kombat for its gameplay ??How many fucking EVO tournaments feature MK games ?? Now one wants that frame counting wake up qcf millasecond bullshit in a mortal kombat game, just as no wants them in a Street Fighter game. Thats what sets them apart. No one wants VF with MK characters, or we would just play Virtua Fighter.

3. If any of you , for even a second are considering giving this piece a shit a chance, then dont call yourself a mortal kombat fan. This game not only takes away everything that MK represents, but its clearly being made to boost the profits of the franchise, and not the creativity. Boon himself said it took him awhile to get sold on the DC crossover, which basically means this could have very well been Mortal Kombat vs. The Golden Girls if Midway thought it would sell, and told Boon to do it.

END RANT

LEAVE MK BY ITSELFFFFF

i dont want to be fighting batman with sub zero.
might as well throw pokemon in the game 2 sheesh.

My rant is about appropriate incrementalization of discussion, because cramming everything into three threads is a bigger problem...
Discussion about John Tobias' potential influence on the series at this point? Seems like a fair subject to float independent of the white elephant thread, just for an example... :ermaceyeroll:

I know its the most obvious thing to rant about but i do have to say the no fatalities thing >_> its just not mortal kombat with out them..will be weird. I'm too used to the gore lol

I was reading over a couple of the rants and a couple things stuck out to me...I'll jump around over time with these things..cuz I really don't care for an "argument"...

But, whatever happens I'm wit it.

So, let's go in..



First is the blackened comment. I wanted to ask you: "How's that better?"

From a business standpoint, the dream is a customer base who will almost mindlessly buy your product on an endless continuum. What they'll be effectively doing, if the gameplay is "stellar", and your comment becomes the truth, is exchanging pretty much guaranteed sales, for skeptics and nay sayers of the franchise based on this franchises gameplay history. People who haven't had any faith in the franchise vs the opposite. Generally speaking anyway...

Players who's buy will depend solely on whether MK's gameplay resembles what their criticisms allow them to understand as correct. Because as I understand it, those fans don't buy a fighting game for any other reason than "excellent // good" gameplay. It's why those games suffer everywhere else that MK is strongest, and it doesn't matter to them. All the other "Fluff", as it's renowned, is MK's strong points.

I'm saying, look at the history here, in context to what's going on right now within the MK fanbase. How would that "exchange" be a good one? Especially if it were absolute...
=-=-=-=-=-=

When you consider that this gimmick itself is placing those usual, "pretty much guaranteed" sales in jeopardy right now....how is what you said a laughable instance?

The way I'm looking at it, and based on your comment, that at least has strong similarities to asking for "The Death of MK". Because the worst case scenario in that instance, would be no "replacement" of current fans with other ones, and nobody likes the game even after playing it. See what I mean?

It's all gathered around the very gimmicks they're trying to use to sell the game. "DC" & "look at the gameplay".

But, you screw up the story, and the gameplay STILL isn't adequate? All that's left is half the MK characters that should be there in the first place, and some newly designed DC characters.

Just saying that this maneuver, this..exchange you're talking about, is jeopardized in the first place. It'd be a stupid marketing tecnique if that's in fact what they were trying to do...which I don't that's the case.

Business common sense tells you to retain....and expand you client//customer base.

And on that note: Can Anyone tell me where MK benefits from DC being there?

I've toyed around with the "shock value" of the two universes, equating to bigger numbers. That's the one, and main way, but if it tanks, where would they benefit? DC wins either way from the venture. *shrugs*

=====

On another note here, and from my analyst of MK's past gameplay, people buy it because the characters have potential to fight like a fictional martial arts movies, choreography. Or, "movie magic".

There is nothing technically sound about that, the purchase, or the gameplay any way you look at that. "Technical Martial Arts Styles" themselves were slim to none back in the day with MK1-4. And with the last three MK games, it seems they can't even get those on point enough to entice the people you say would conveniently "replace" current MK fans. So I don't get it..

But...that's what the preference over the technical fighters is all about. People aren't buying MK because the styles are historical, or correctly portrayed in the game. That doesn't matter enough to this fanbase as I understand it. Generally people don't really care if it's "absolutely correct", they just want it to "look good while they're kicking somebodies ass".

That's as far as MK fans go...is the "flashy" portions of movie choreography. That's all. Eastern created, eastern concepts influenced by what Hollywood is doing.

Of course we have a few "techies" over here, but that's all people are generally asking for from this franchise. In that perception of things, it ain't called Nan Chuan...It's just....."What would Raiden look like fighting?"

I'd say, alot like MK1-2, give or take a few things.

=-=-=-=-=-=

Speaking for myself now, I buy MK for the same reason as far as gameplay is concerned....I'm just one of the people who can recognize that even given the above paragraph(s), the MKTeam hasn't even been making that idea(or a similar one that's been in the games) WORK RIGHT". That's my frustration, is that it just don't work right from a programming standpoint.

Whatever the concept is about MK's gameplay, has never been technically correct on any level...really. But, I recognize how all the terminology's purposes are relevant. Frame advantages, oki and all that...I know, I get it.

Saying that if they're gonna go with a gimmick, and want to attract more people to the franchise, that they should be using the gimmicks they have...instead of reaching out, and throwing more "new", "shocking", and as XD84 put it, "goofy" concepts into the pot. They got more than enough to do what they're trying to do...they just took it in the wrong direction at some point.

I'd say >>

::Exploit the concept of MK's gameplay: go all out, make it looks like a Jackie Chan///Jet Li//Donnie Yen//Chow Yun Fat//Tony Jaa//Zhang Ziyi..ect ect movie fight. It's not technical at all in it's conceptual-ism. Some of the other games are stepping right on this right now...VF5 is the closest to this that I can think of right now.

::Exploit the Story element: go all out, there's enough there to write a couple fantasy novels. I don't have to read much to figure this out. Never have.

::Exploit each character: more than 3 out of the 60+ characters should have alternate titles by now. Or be a part of an alternate title. Mythologies or Shaolin Monks should be series of they're own, that run in story behind and exploit all the loose strings of the main fighting games that come out. Judging by his popularity alone, we should have been had a Scorpion game. Full of shirai ryu clan stuff, the distaste towards the Lin Kuei, and leading on past his murder and the murder of the first Sub-Zero..

That shit is a book and a game all by itself.

::Exploit MK1-Ts' art direction & fantasy: go Boris Vallejo & Julie Bell, or Luis Royo, and the like. Realize something like their art in MK...it's right on point for MK. Matches almost perfectly without even touching it. Google them as their spelled here and you will see...
=====================

Anyway, I hope this is the case with MKvsDC, regardless of the overall gimmick. But i've learned to heighten my skepticisms as far as MK's potential is concerned. This current game so far seems to be just another occurrence in the "un-realized potential" saga of MK.

So, given the history of MKs gamplay, this gimmick, and the fact that I rented the last 2 MK games first....There's no way in hell I'm sold on this. There's no way I'm even convinced to "give it a chance" just yet.

The best case scenario that I can think of right now, is that they prove me wrong, show something wildy contrary to my current thought process at E3, and THEN, I'll get on the side of "just try it, you can't judge it till you play it". But let's be real about it, they're not gonna drop this..."unorthodox" gimmick and finally comply. Not in the middle of this campaign..

As it stands right now, I'm merely considering playing it just cuz I want to. Other than that, there's no reason for me to touch this game. Not their "word", not anything "new" their coming up with, not the DC characters, or the Story element, and definitely not the "POTENTIAL" that gameplay MAY be "better" this time around...

Why look at it differently now considering the past is un-shaken? Why should I be optimistic about what seems to be the same formula over again?

DC characters? Teh n00 gameplay?

That's the laughable part man..

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Lastly here, what you're considering common sense isn't so. Considering the tendencies of this franchises history, common sense points to "Don't buy this one cuz they're doing what they did before...again". They're trying to trick everybody into buying this one, with yet another open ended invitation that "the next one will be better" somehow...

Well, I wanted them to prove it this time instead of jerking people around AGAIN. Close the open ended bs, make the gameplay work right no matter what the concept for it was, and write a completely canon story for once. No more ridiculous "To be continued" crap unless it's really REALLY warranted.

The way I see it, MK is thee "Shocking" franchise to the fighting game genre already. Every game they've released has had more than adequate shock value. Whether it was blood, gore, and fatalities....or bigger bosses, huge rosters, or "end of the world scenarios" in story that sold those games. It's never lacked the way of shock value.

That's why they keep selling the games. It's never a "quality" selling point with them...it has always been a huge gimmick to keep the sales up and the profits rolling in. (they've never said, our gameplay is the best, our story is the best, our characters are the best, our art direction is the best..or whatever. It's always "Hey, look at this new.....GIMMICK".)

Anyway, the only way that they've really always lacked is gameplay. That's the only real constant, and especially since 3D. Story isn't. Character design or development isn't...it's always been something finicky about the gameplay. It was just acceptable at a time in history more than another.

::iMo, they just fail to show mastery of their own, self created craft. Saying that if you're going to be the franchise that helps launch "blood, gore, fantasy, story, and martial arts" on to the gaming scene, own that shit.

"Keeping up with the Jones' " ain't the point. As an example, there's not another guy like Jackie Chan in the business like he is. It's cuz he proved "you can't do it better than me while I'm around...". Mk hasn't really proved anything besides being able to lead people on, and "shock" them every once in a while.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

It's like, conceding like they've done doesn't necessarily "finish them" off right away...but progressively, you mind as well step to the side and let somebody else do it like you should have been doing it all along. Business contingencies or not, there's no excuse NOT to do YOU better than everybody else. MK IS the commodity, not "MK & DC for the purposes of"....

That's really the radical dispute about blood and gore and fatalities man...

EX::) What if Jay-Z tried to convince people to buy a CD of his, that was a children's record....or gospel...or rock & roll? That shit is out of character like crazy...and nobody would buy that from him. I'd even question people buying anything else from him after that. And if Jay-Z doesn't work for you, use 50Cent... Aheh, supposed to be "Mr Gangsta, hustler, guns and thug life, and you put out a children's album?" No deal d00d. Doesn't matter if it was the best lyics and beats man has ever heard.

Now, apply that to MK. "Supposed to be blood and gore and fatalities, and you go an tangle around in the ring with a franchise that you know doesn't solicit what you're about?" No deal d00d...and just for that, I might not buy the next one either.

They fucked up on a few levels with this one, at least recognize it. lol

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More, and probably somebody else later. Although I think there's a couple other things in your post that stick out.

151

Couldn't have said it better than Garlador. I agreed with every word.