As far as Scorpion and Kitana's characters being poorly written, without playing the game, I cannot fully comment. That being said, Scorpion should be a selfish character, driven by his need to restore honour to himself. If there are obstacles in his way, he will mow them down with the fury of the underworld. It's not a hard concept to write. That's always how I've envisioned the character, anyway. Good nor evil have any place in Scorpion's objectives. Certainly sentiment is one that needs to be erased. i.e. That crappy concept of his family still being alive.

I miss a darker Kitana. She was actually kind of cool when she was working for Shao Kahn as an assassin. Now it seems like she was meant to be good all along. What the fuck, man? The deliciousness of the Kitana character was the way she turned Shao Kahn's training against him. Well, it really could have been. She's so...diplomatic now. There should still be some rough edges to her character.

Being asked to elaborate on the obvious. Who would've thought, eh?

The only flaw in putting that much stock in the "easter eggs" is that there's just as much chance they're knocked together in a thirty-minute recording session before lunch. What're the odds Reiko really likes sneaking in to try Shao Kahn's clothes on? Under oath, I know I'd have to recognise reasonable doubt.

Rationalizing and picking out bits and pieces is fair enough, but something with as big a doubt cast over it as chunks of Deception should hardly be the bible. (Although, I too am quite partial to reasoning and pocketting through MKD's Konquest, and Armageddon as well, for that matter).


I don't know if it's particularly needed, but Argus and Delia at least offer precedent to interspecial relations between gods and mortals in the MK universe. If we're rationalizing Raiden and Kahn as brothers, it's probably just as easy to assume Kahn was a corrupted protectoral god, or even a representative totem of something like war, predestined to his role.

If you subscribe to the theory that the One Being is a cosmic conceptual state of existence - rather than a conscious entity - Kahn as someone compelled to conquer (and merge) realms could easily begin as a positive force for cosmic harmony. Which then extends down to the balance of good and evil, Raiden and Shao Kahn,
As functioning parts of the universal make-up, If the value of realms is placed on maintaining balance of key components, the two and fro is justified as long as neither the heroes or villains gain the upper hand.

If six key realms representing the stuff of the universe (with overlap) are the balance -- chaos, order, life, death, war, peace -- Kahn has purpose.
Zaterra, Vaerternus, and other realms, threaten to splinter the stuff of the universe beyond cohesion as much as 'too much of a good thing' -- merging too many realms -- could undo existence giving way to the "One Being".

Something like this could've given a little bit more weight to the MK/DC meeting. Details in place in both universes kinda rub against the idea of the two Earths meeting -- but if you think of multiverses as infinitely dense bubbles sitting next to each other -- post-Armageddon ideas could've spun new realms out of Edenia (ie; Kung Lao's ending) causing a splintering that opened the boundaries of the MK multiverse to an adjacent reality.
Something that has it's own catastrophic implications for existence.


Or, to put it briefly; Kahn merging realms is a good thing to a point, but if his urges aren't kept in check, he quickly goes too far.

lol, you guys really are putting too much in to this. The game's story has been screwed up since deception. Who really cares? As stated before, Raiden and Kahn being brothers dosen't really change any thing it makes their rivalry more interesting. I doubt Shinnok is their father like in the movie, I really do doubt that. But really, what if the mk team have seen them as brothers since the very beginning? Them just confirming it now wouldn't change any thing. Raiden and Kahn will still be enemies so what exactly is "so bad" about this? Yeah we have alot of sibling rivalries but so? I think it was Kahn and Raiden(possibly inspired by the movies and shows) that started the whole sibling rivalry in the MK games in the first place. And no, Kitana and Mileena are NOT sisters.

Quit reading in to things, so they are brothers, what are you guys fearing will happen?

Okay, so some of the lines are jokes and some of them are genuine easter eggs with actual relevant and interesting information, but you can tell which is which by exercising common sense.

Besides, Reiko doesn't want to wear the helmet because they share a sense of fashion, he wants to wear it because it's THE CROWN. God forbid a general should have higher ambitions...



Argus is a realm God, not an Elder God. One of those two groups is known for fraternizing with mortals, while the other is known for ignoring every damn thing that happens in the mortal realms until it's already too late. Again though, a caveat for Shinnok.



Sure, that makes sense...IF Kahn was a god, which I'm still disinclined to believe because information that big is something that really should have come up long before now.

The only rationalization I can come up with is that...let's face it, this whole thing comes from Annihilation. And what was the big drama between the Shinnok family in Annihilation? Shinnok once forced the brothers to fight each other to the death and Kahn lost, but Raiden refused to kill him, which pissed Shinnok off. "It is not a weakness to value life!" and all that.

Suppose that fight was over godhood, and since Kahn lost, he doesn't earn a "rank", if you will? Not a god of anything, but still as powerful as one, hence his frequently being reffered to as an immortal.

Good lord, entertaining this idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Thank god it's only popped up in a non-canon game.

Its just the alleged origin of where this idea is coming from. If this idea was born from that god-awful movie, then my fear is that Midway will make Shao Kahn Shinnok's bitch. Personally, Shao Kahn has been my favorite character since MK2.

If this story makes it into the canon, then who knows what else they'll do? As many have said, MK is suffering from many inconsistencies. This just adds more to it....

Woe anyone who might've been enticed into fandom by MKvsDC!

For a fundraiser/recruitment drive that was supposed to put the "iconic" foot forward, it seems so very peculiar to stray from key details in such an obviously controversial way!
Here's hoping it isn't a sign of things to come! As we've seen, there are a handful of unfortunately plausible ways to rationalize the relation.


Aye. Too many 'buts' to really be a definitive source.

I find it more likely that Midway simply thinks outsiders to the franchise who were attracted to the game because they're DC fans will be more familiar with the movie plots than the actual canon, than that this will find it's way into MK9.

Yeah, that seems like the obvious conventional wisdom.
I specifically avoided it just because ten years later I don't hear much about either movie, least of all Annihilation. I guess that might just be my circle(s), though.

Then there's all that talk about a third movie retconning the second out of existence... Hrm.

Mick...even though you're generally a cheapshot in an argument (you've called me names before) I always find your posts so intelligent and well thought out.


These are all of my THEORIES. I'm in no way saying they're canon, just keep an open mind, people.

One thing to mention is that Shao Kahn and Raiden have a similar pattern of behavior in the last few games; tie in with the fact that MK vs. DC conquest apparently implies that Shinnok is Kahn's father (thus Raiden's) and you have some very logical patterns.

Shinnok is corrupted before all of the games trying to get Earth.
Shao Kahn is corrupted by greed.
Raiden is corrupted trying to keep Earth safe, and shown in his Armaggedon willing to destroy ALL OTHER REALMS.

Given that The One Being is characterized as being more powerful than any other being in the universe (It took depending on your reading, 6 or more Elder Gods to defeat him) one would assume that The One Being had the ability to sway even a God.

The biggest contradiction in Shao Kahn's Godhood is the fact that he felt so threatened by Onaga that Kahn decided to kill him; we have no proof of Onaga being anything but a Mortal, but I've always theorized that it's possible that Onaga was a creation of the One Being; given that the One Being is more powerful than any individual Elder God, it would make sense that Onaga would be a threat to Shao Kahn while not qualifying as a God.

Perhaps murdering Onaga corrupted Shao Kahn much like hara kiri corrupted Raiden? That corruption also could've come from another source; Shinnok.

Shinnok has corrupted at least Daegon, a demi-god. I've also long theorized that Rain was corrupted by Shinnok, or at least by an underling of Shinnok like Quan Chi. His corruption techniques seemed to work, as on the surface, both of his "sons" are begrudgingly doing his dirty work during Armageddon.

I know people hate any idea that makes Kahn seem less bad ass, but I like the idea that the entire Mortal Kombat series is framed by Shinnok's attempts to take over the realms. He's theoretically the most powerful character in MK, and such analysis of him manipulating at least 2-3 other dieties and demi-gods makes him truly a master manipulator.

I agree, and that's right where I go:

God's don't need "relatives". THAT'S why the idea of Raiden and Shao Kahn as brothers is stupid as hell in-the-first-place.

Gods in mortal kombat are presented to work like a system, there's a hiearchy, for instance. There are gods designated to specific jobs. But in MK, we're missing difinitive responsibility, and power distribution. (for instance, who is the god of dispare?, and what the hell is that anyway? What does that mean for the character? lol And btw, this stuff isn't limited to MkvsDc, it's an oversight through and through.)

Anyway, they don't need to be "concieved as relatives", all they "need", is to be "created for a purpose". They don't need a proclaimated "mother and father" figure, there should be a pool of parental influences. And that's where, if they wanna play Shinnok as a parental influence, then okay. BUT, consider the heiarchy then, Raiden's the closest to the Elder Gods, not Fujin, and not the other gods in Mortal Kombat history. Raiden should be the only one to recieve a specific type of influence....Fujin should recieve a different type of influence from those same (or different) parental influences.

Maybe Fujin is closer to a different elder god, for instance. Way I see it, gods like Fujin should simply be "younger" based on experience, or existence for purposes to which they were created. Explain THAT, MkTeam.

We should have a Grimm Reaper character, uumm, because Raiden felt the burden of all of his duties at one point, and requested to have a "god" created to handle the duty of collecting and transfering souls to the nether (tah-dah). Raiden should have to sacrifice something in order to get that done. But then, as the leader, he delegates that responsibility to that entity. "To make his JOB easier, and more efficient." That's a leader of a hiearchy.

That's how they should be playing these gods in MK. Lol Not as idiotic brothers or whatever. And really, the biggest problem with the way they're handling situations like this brother thing, is that they keep humanizing the characters that are not descriptively defined as mortals, or by mortal standards. That's the stupidest part to me.

It's like, gods are supposed to be different than the mortals. Well, if they keep lumping them in with the mortals, and blurring the line....what's the point? The only real difference right now is that gods are eternal and mortals are not. That's the only real distiguishing factor right now...

Dieing and coming back to life isn't even exclusive. lol

To be fair, every major pantheistic religion/mythology in the real world used familial ties. Zeus had Athena, Ares, Hercules, etc. with various different goddesses and mortal women, Thor is the son of Odin and brother of Loki, et cetera.
Though I did say earlier that I don't think the Elder Gods should be mating. They should just will the lesser gods into existence. The lesser gods can have sex all they want, though. Argus already set the precedent.

My opinion of this Raiden/Shao Kahn brothers things really isn't a question of does it make sense or not. Does it make sense for Shinnok to have two sons who were given their own realms? Sure it can. Does this revelation alter what we already know about Shao Kahn's history...which is almost nothing, BTW...? Not really...except it makes him appear to be subservient to Shinnok.

It's not a question of sense. It's just a matter of being really stupid. I wish there was a more eloquent way to say that, but I can't. It's just fucking dumb.

These are the types of retcons/revelations that just come across as insulting. All this time, Kahn and Raiden have been brothers and that's apparently a big factor in their hatred for one another.....but we never found out about it until now. I'm reminded of Shaolin Monks saying Sub-Zero always knew Noob Saibot was his brother. It's just....no. Don't do that.

Also, this thing just screams desperation. Shao Kahn rules Outworld and wants to conquer Earth. Raiden is Earth's protector and he doesn't like that. So they hate each other. Revealing their brothers and this feud over Earth is some cliched biblical nonsense is just a sad, pathetic, and far too late attempt to make this rivalry deeper than it really is. Especially considering Kahn is already embroiled in a satsifying...and unresolved...family feud with Kitana, Sindel, and Mileena.
And BTW, it fails anyway, because does revealling they're brothers really add anything to the situation?

Which brings me to another point: the MK team really needs to find a new bag of tricks. "How can we makes this rivalry deeper? Have them be related! Because everybody loves family feuds!"
So we've got Kitana vs. Mileena vs. Shao Kahn vs. Sindel. We've also got Sub-Zero vs. Noob Saibot and Taven vs. Daegon vs. Rain. If this crap is considered canon, now we have Raiden vs. Shao Kahn vs. Shinnok.
Hey, you know what....why stop there? Let's reveal Jade and Tanya are sisters....Shang Tsung is Liu Kang's father....Sareena and Ashrah are sisters....and then, when Raiden goes "dark" and crazy, THEN you reveal he and Fujin are brothers.

And finally, it's just the principle of them acknowledging Annihilation as anything other than a total failure that should be ignored and forgotten. I mean, when Batman & Robin came out....and was universally hated and bombed....did DC decide to make Batgirl Alfred's niece because that's what they did in the movie?
Why embrace such an embarrassment?

I was thinking about that earlier...look at the people related to Shao Kahn:


01. Shinnok- His father
02. Raiden- His Brother
03. Sindel- His ex-wife
04. Kitana- His Step-Daughter
05. Mileena- His "Daughter"

He also created Ermac, which makes him the closest Ermac has to a relative. On top of that Argus, Fujin, and Lucifer would also be "cousins" of his, if you consider that the Elder Gods probably consider themselves all brothers.


And God knows how many second cousins he has from that Man Whore Argus.

Shao Kahn now is Uncle of KID Thunder

PAPA!!!!

Friendship, Friendship AGAIN???

Well in the game under bios is does specifically say that they are brothers. Of course it does make a tad bit of sence in a few ways. If I remember correctly in Raiden's old MK1 bio card that was in the comic book which I do own by the way, it makes him to be about 7 foot tall. Kahn has a large build and I'd even say he's about 7 foot tall too. Either way you look at their dominations, one wants to protect the Earthrealm and the other wants to destroy it. Shinnok being daddy doesn't make too much sence to me either, but neither did Rain's dad being an Elder God in Armageddon either. I do wish they'd make a revamp of some of the older games using this system, but I'd love to see a revamped Trilogy with all the characters from Wii's Armageddon which means both Khameleons. Anyway, getting off subject, it was bound to happen sooner or later about them being brothers because fans like us complained about it for so long that they made it legit. Kind of like Ermac. We swore up and down that someone had a picture of him and found him and they basically said the heck with it and made him a playable fighter in UMK3. It is sort of the same thing. They do watch a lot of online communities especially this one.

Argus is NOT an Elder God. He becomes one after MKA, but by nature, he's the God Protector of Edenia.

I like your thinking, but I personally like the idea of Shao Kahn being in charge of his own destiny. I hate the idea of him being a puppet, or born into a role where he is "destined" to do these things, and then destined to be defeated until next time.

Maybe I misread your post (I am tired), and I know you were only speculating and not throwing it out there as something you'd necessarily like to see be made canon, but I just thought I'd answer your well-thought out "take it or leave it" with a "leave it."

On the subject of the bios, has anyone taken a close look at Kano's character model? He's got a heart monitor on the side of his belt, wired to his bandolier, for some reason. What do you suppose that's about?

Also, his cyber eye can blink. The iris opens and closes like a camera shutter, lol.

Man, this whole thing is so fucking dumb. Sorry to double-post, but this is more in support of Xia's post about this just being stupid. It really, really is. It adds nothing to the hatred between Raiden and Shao Kahn. In fact, it should probably create less tension between them, given a base understanding and origin for the two. To quote Will Arnett's Gob Bluth in Arrested Development: "We're brothers...and we kinda like each other."

And besides, it's called a "sibling rivalry" because of just that -- it's a rivalry. A competition. It lowers the dramatic stakes of what is on the line in previous games. Earthrealm vs. Outworld for the souls of every mortal suddenly just became a game of scissors, paper, rock between two brothers. Oh, and is that their daddy playing them off against each other, standing in the shadows? Out-smarting them, and grinning all the while, lessening the intensity and reputation of their characters as the leaders of the sides of "good" and "evil" respectively? Once again, keeping in mind that the "good versus evil" tension has been slowed dramatically because of this new turn of their characters. "I'll beat you first, brother!" "Nuh-uh, I will!" "I know you will beat yourself first! That's what I said!" "Dammit!"

It's just the stuff of slapstick comedy.

Being that we went into this thing as an excepted "Alternate Reality" I thought it was a cool way to go back and kind of revisited the end of MK3.

So I don't mind them linking the plot point of MK: Annihilation to this storyline. It's kind of fun.

Plus, don't forget they are also drawing from the original MK movie as well! The original Bio for Kano (to the best of my knowledge) says nothing about him being Australian, yet he clearly has an Australian accent in the game. That was only done because an Australian actor played him during the first film.

Actually, Kano's Australian accent was made canon in Deadly Alliance. As was Raiden having movie-style long, silver hair.

In the MK1 bios, Kano was originally an American raised in Japan and Raiden had black hair.

Other things taken from the movie and added to the games: Liu and Kitana's romance, "Protector of Earth" being an official role for Raiden, and Outworld needing to win ten tournaments in a row. Those were all added in MK 3/Trilogy and 4.
Some people also think Kano having killed Sonya's partner was taken from the movie and added to the games, but there's no actual proof of that. The truth is that in the games, Kano seems to hate Sonya far more than she hates him, and she only hunted down the Black Dragon because it was her mission.

I was thinking more along the lines of an inclination, rather than an actual manipulation. Something that embellishes the logic, rather than putting hard and fast rules on the character. As a god of war Kahn continues to do what he does, but personally, I don't have any interest or respect for the sudden reveal that Kahn is a god.

Something like the One Being -- which I have no interest in as an entity -- would hopefully be even more subtle.

I don't know if it's where you're coming from, but I've been a bit dismayed by Kahn's faceplant through the mud. I think he should be a competent and respectable villain, even in defeat (ie).

People also forget that Kitana being Kahn's step-daughter was retconned in for MK3. Nowhere in MK2 does it mention a familiar relationship. It was present in the Malibu comics though in 1994, and I guess the team thought it was cool, so they added it.

I'm pretty sure the Malibu comic that introduced the idea was ALSO the first place to name her realm Edenia and introduce King Jerrod as well, so it's probable that they got that information from Tobias in the first place.
Which would mean the movie also got it from Tobias, not the other way around.

Makes you wonder if they got the Shinnok family tree thing from Tobias...