My thoughts exactly.

I do what I can do find the good in a less than perfect situation, but that decision is absolutely mindless. It's an awful change that would have been bad even if it would have somehow made sense. Very disappointed with the writers on the MK team.

I don't understand how with every game we can find such flaws in the storyline. The MK team has to do this on purpose. Any hypothesis besides "they're lazy?" I mean, why would a company want to create such a jumble of a storyline? What could be the positives?

well...when it was revealed in MKD that there were 6 Elder Gods, and they created the Gods together, I knew that meant Shao Kahn and Raiden would end up being brothers.

As for Shao Kahn and Shinnok, just because Shinnok is his father doesn't mean they have to get along.

This is at least more of a sort of God > Creation way than a Shinnok porking a girl in the backseat of his pinto kind of way *Glares at Argus*

First of all, just because there are 6 Kamidogu does NOT mean there are only 6 Elder Gods.

Second, SHAO KAHN IS NOT A GOD, so why would the amount of Elder Gods there are have anything to do with Raiden being related to Kahn? The odds of them sharing a father would only go up if we had any logical reason to believe Kahn has an Elder God for a father, and he's simply not powerful enough for that to make sense. The son of an Elder God wouldn't have needed poison to usurp Onaga.
Now, Kahn may be a DEMI-god. He could be the GRANDson of an Elder God. But their status, power, and home realms simply aren't equal so there's no logical reason to say they're brothers. And if either Kahn or Raiden were Shinnok's son, I think that the best time to reveal that information would have been MK4, not now after Shinnok's time as a villain and rival of Raiden has become irrelevant and all but forgotten.

Uh..Shao Kahn IS a God.

That was confirmed in the Mortal Kombat Deception konquest.


"Raiden (the God Protector Earthrealm), Lucifer (God Protector of Netherealm) and Shao Kahn are of the same race."

Gee...what race could that POSSIBLY be. Bunny Rabbits?

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it untrue.

Is it a retcon? Sure. Does it completely contradict Shao Kahn's original portrayal? absolutely. Do I like it? Not entirely. Is it better than speculating about what he is and never getting answers? Definitely.

Also, it was never stated ANYWHERE that the four elemental gods of Earth were brothers. NOWHERE.

I have never seen that line before, I made it a point to talk to every damn person in MKD Konquest looking for those little bits of trivia like that Quan Chi used to be an oni and Shao Kahn was a nice guy like Raiden before he turned on Onaga.
What realm and general location is it spoken in? I gotta see it for myself.

I know I've read it somewhere that I'm certain was official. I'm inclined to believe it was the Midway website for MKM:SZ, which had, in short but extremely detailed chapters, the ENTIRE backstory of the game, from Shinnok's fall to how the Shirai Ryu was formed, as written by Tobias himself.
Unfortunately, said website is no longer existent for me to check, what with this having been years and years ago. Either way, it's been accepted canon by every storyline hardass I've ever had a discussion with on an MK board...until YOU. So I'm inclined to believe my memories.

i do believe hearing that shao kahn and raiden were similar. someone said something along the lines of it's hard to believe they used to be the same or similar or something like that.

i always thought they meant brothers in like arms. not you came out of the same vagina i did brother.

Google the word APOTHEOSIS.

That they are of the same race does not warrant deification.

Said message was in the backward speech that midway put in the netherealm. there are mp3 files floating around and one of the quotes is that Shao Kahn, Raiden and Lucifer are of the same race.

As for the original MKM:SZ page, it had nothing about them all being brothers. That's flat out false. The page is still archived somewhere. I'll attempt to find it. While I admit that all the Gods of a single realm being brothers would make more sense than the Gods of different realms being brothers, I'm just going by what we have. The Fujin/ Raiden being brothers thing is just an embellishment people like to throw around; it has no support in Mortal Kombat canon.

The one thing that definitely makes the link work though is it would make sense that the sons of Shinnok, the fallen elder God, would both eventually be corrupted.

Shao Kahn is obviously a point of contention, but given that the Elder Gods created the Gods, you have to figure that ONE of th Elder Gods, Shinnok or otherwise, is Raiden's father.

My personal reading on that has always been that the six elder Gods (the official strategy guide to MKD mentioned that there were six Elder Gods, that's where I got the number) each took a realm, and populated it with Gods. So one Elder God to each realm. I always figured Shinnok was the elder God who populated Earthrealm, thus his interest in it...and his distaste for the Elder God's hands off attitude.

As for Shao Kahn? Most people read his advisor status as being like Shang Tsung is to Shao Kahn or Quan Chi to Shinnok; I read it differently, that Shao Kahn was to Onaga like Raiden to Liu Kang, the One Being corrupted him, driving him mad, and causing Kahn to become the way he is.

Anyway we slice it, this is DEFINITELY a MUST ASK QUESTION for Vogel at the next chat we have with them. I think we can both agree that Shao Kahn's race and lineage MUST be clarified by official word once and for all.

Well until I can prove the source of where I read that Fujin and Raiden are brothers, I'll let that one go.

But as for the backwards quote from Deception, even if it really is in the game, it doesn't make sense.

MKM's storyline DOES for certain state that Lucifer was just one in a line of ordinary demons born in hell who took the throne by slaying the previous ruler.

I like healthy story debates.
1. The site says nothing about Raiden having any sort of family in the Pantheon. Shao Kahn, Shinnok, and Raiden are mentioned enough times on that whole site and not once does it say they are related.
2. With regards to the backwards message, keep in mind that another one of said messages states that Hsu Hao will never be seen again, or something like that; guess who returned in MK: Armageddon?
I'm willing to bet that they threw that in there hoping to develop it, but that it'll be forgotten and never used in any potential MK stories.
3. Strategy guides have been wrong before with regards to MK story; remember how the MK Gold strategy guide had completely different stories for Cyrax, Sektor, Mileena, Kitana, Kung Lao and Baraka? The only one that ever wound up becoming canon was Cyrax's but in any case, the rest weren't.

Ah HA! There's that damn site.

Okay, Ermac's right, no mention of Fujin. On the other hand, it does have THIS:

"Over the millennia, the Netherealm has had many rulers. Most of them were forged within its fiery pits, eventually ripping their masters mercilessly from their thrones. One however, came not from the bowels of the Netherealm, but from the heavens of reality. He was the fallen Elder God known as Shinnok.

Shinnok was banished to this place of torment by Rayden. Upon entering the realm, he found himself immediately under attack by its then ruler Lucifer, as well as those souls he was personally responsible for banishing when he was an Elder God."

Lucifer is not of the same race as Raiden. He is, on the other hand, of the same race as Quan Chi, Moloch, and Sareena. Unless it's a retcon. And I'll be DAMNED if I'm gonna believe a retcon that was spoken backwards and hidden in Chaosrealm, lol.

This is almost as good as Shaolin Monks' ending. Quan Chi gets the amulet from Shao Kahn's remains? What the fuck?!

Since Raiden is once again bros with Shao Kahn, think he'll lose the hat go get a 'ANNIHILATION' hair cut as well?

HAHA!

I think for the fight night or whatever it's called (I forget, the night where we ask the team questions) we need to all send in a question about getting the nature of Shao Kahn addressed.

These arguments about his status have been raging on for years, and the games honestly give so much contradicting info, that I think it's time that we end this debate with an official two part answer to this question:


1) Is Shao Kahn a God? 2) Is Shao Kahn Raiden's brother.


Obviously, the 2nd part NO ONE believed until about 4 days ago. But the first part has kicked up some serious discussion since Deception.

I think in MKD they decided every realm had a God like Raiden. Before that they really didn't have anything like that.

While it is a much better way to go about (it would make sense that Earth isn't the ONLY realm with a protector God) it really confuses a lot of things.

I think all of the Gods could be said to be "Brothers" as non (except for Taven, Daegon and Rain, all demi-gods) could be said to have "popped out of a vagina." I'm sure for the most part these Gods sprung from the head of the elder gods (Metaphorically speaking.)

For example, whoever is Raiden's father probably just said "Raiden, awaken!" and suddenly Raiden existed. I doubt Raiden was like on an ultra sound or anything hahaha.

Oh Crap, Fight night already happened!?!?!?!

MK:D's Konquest strayed so far from the storyline at points that I don't think we want to try and use it as an example of canonism.

That's a weak argument. Sure they had to make certain characters appear at certain times, but I think all the info we got in Deceptions Konquest is 100% canon.

All the random villager quotes are definitely intended to be canon. Vogel wouldn't even have put those little easter eggs of info in if they were bullshit.

It's the things that are directly related to Konquest's plot like all the characters he meets or like "Raiden asks for Shujinko's help fighting the Deadly Alliance, then Shujinko is arrested and grows many years older in jail, but when he gets out, Deception hasn't even started yet" that don't make any sense and can't be regarded as canon.

Yea, getting pretty close with this one...

If it's a joke to poke at fans, it ain't funny.
If they think it has real potential to become canon, it's a joke.

When central devices can't be relied upon, is there any reason to have confidence in the value of tangents and filler tidbits?

"Canonism," indeed!

Uh...yeah there is and I already explained why. But gee whiz, Mick, I'll elaborate even further for your sake since you're always such a pleasant, chummy guy.

You call them "filler tidbits" but the term "easter egg" is far more appropriate. They're basically gifts from Vogel to the really hardcore fans who actually care that Quan Chi was once an Oni and Raiden's path to the darkside is happening just like Kahn's did so hmm, same cause maybe? There's no point in having trivia hidden about the game if they're not even true, is there? And I think Vogel would know better than we do.

A huge portion of the main plot, on the other hand, is all just a contrivance to get Shujinko to encounter every single character in the game so you can learn all their moves lists, like a very elaborate training mode. The nature of the beast itself, in such a case, is that not making any damn sense was unavoidable, so it's fair game to pick and choose only the parts that do make sense.
There's two different animals there. You can't look at a lion and an eagle standing next to each other and go "Check it out, a griffin!"

I hate the idea as much as the majority here. But if Midway really wanna make that part canon, it's easily explained way Shao Kahn isn't a God.

It could be like in that Hercules TV show with Kevin Sorbo. Maybe Raiden's father, whoever he may be, tapped some good looking mortal ass and that's how Shao Kahn came to be.

Well then they're only half-brothers, in which case, a little specificity would be nice.
Also, I don't think Elder Gods have sex. In their natural forms, they're some sort of energy creatures that look like dragons. They probably, as someone else said, just winked the lesser gods into existence so the realms would have some custodians.
Although that Shinnok fellow...he sure did like taking a human form and traveling to Earth...

That's your belief. I'm not saying I disagree, mind you. I'd like to believe that those little trivia bits do have some basis on the story. But you know, I'd also have liked to have believed that the fucking story might have had some basis on the story, too. I can see where skepticism regarding Konquest could very easily come from. Until those tidbits are officially confirmed elsewhere, and/or are incorporated into the story, I wouldn't place money on them.

Especially in a story where Raiden and Shao Kahn can suddenly be presented as "brothers." Such a sad "twist" in the story. If they were going to do something shifty with Kahn's story, giving him Earthrealm origins could have been it. Fuck, it would have made more sense to make him Bo' Rai Cho's brother. I was just getting right into the mystery surrounding Kahn's character, too.

Also, although young at the time of Fujin's conception as a character, and never really playing too much "Mythologies," I don't remember Raiden and Fujin ever being true brothers. I mean, Raiden and Fujin call each other "brother," but I always assumed it was in the way monks throw around the term. You also have to take into consideration that these are immortal entities. The term "brother" becomes so subjective. How were these beings created, and just what does it warrant for two to be "related?"

It's a messy subject, and that's why I've never been into the "God" characters like Raiden and Fujin. You need to lay down the ground rules for their "race" before we are to be made to care about them, I think. It should all be thrown out for the next game, and just left as a memory with maybe one of the characters returning in the true sequel.