SubMan799 •06/24/2010 09:19 PM (UTC) •
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warrior Wrote:
I agree.. the storylines of this game is one of the main things that makes MK the best Fighter, hands down! It really is like its Comic Book or Saga. Its an ever-expanding universe. Brilliant
I agree.. the storylines of this game is one of the main things that makes MK the best Fighter, hands down! It really is like its Comic Book or Saga. Its an ever-expanding universe. Brilliant
the story makes MK the best fighter? no
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Younger Sub-Zero didn't get the scar until his second game.
Younger Sub-Zero didn't get the scar until his second game.
He got the scar in MK3 when he turned his back on the Lin Kuei. But much like the comic books, the continuity was changed later. In the game MK: Shaolin Monks, the scar was given to the younger subzero by Kung Lao's hat. This game was set during MK2. So the time of the scar is debatable. LoL
TemperaryUserName New sig on the way •06/24/2010 09:23 PM (UTC) •
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SubMan799 Wrote:
the story makes MK the best fighter? no
the story makes MK the best fighter? no
I think he meant that MK's story places it artistically as the highest quality game in the fighting genre.
RazorsEdge701 •06/24/2010 09:34 PM (UTC) •
0
warrior Wrote:
He got the scar in MK3 when he turned his back on the Lin Kuei. But much like the comic books, the continuity was changed later. In the game MK: Shaolin Monks, the scar was given to the younger subzero by Kung Lao's hat. This game was set during MK2. So the time of the scar is debatable. LoL
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Younger Sub-Zero didn't get the scar until his second game.
Younger Sub-Zero didn't get the scar until his second game.
He got the scar in MK3 when he turned his back on the Lin Kuei. But much like the comic books, the continuity was changed later. In the game MK: Shaolin Monks, the scar was given to the younger subzero by Kung Lao's hat. This game was set during MK2. So the time of the scar is debatable. LoL
Shaolin Monks isn't canon, but even if it was, My point is that Younger Subbie was still always INTRODUCED to players with no scar and got it later.
It's not necessary "bad" people want Classic Sub-Zero in this game. Well, it is bad, but that's my opinion on it. That doesn't mean you have total disregard for the story. But when someone says, "Doesn't matter which Sub-Zero it is" that's bothersome, because yeah it should definitely matter which it is.
I really thought we were passed the days of the MK fanbase calling out for every single multi-colored ninja character to be in the game, but maybe we aren't.
I really thought we were passed the days of the MK fanbase calling out for every single multi-colored ninja character to be in the game, but maybe we aren't.
SubMan799 •06/24/2010 09:43 PM (UTC) •
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Classic sub-Zero was only in MKT as a non cannon character. Why not include ninja sub when all you really have to do is palette swap a character to include him?
Young Sub and Noob Saibot are in, Classic Sub is not. Use some common sense
Young Sub and Noob Saibot are in, Classic Sub is not. Use some common sense
SubMan799 •06/24/2010 09:44 PM (UTC) •
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warrior Wrote:
thats exactly what i said and meant! LoL thanx
thats exactly what i said and meant! LoL thanx
ah, well its not really tough when BlazBlue and Tekken are your main competition lol
Historical Favorite •06/24/2010 09:45 PM (UTC) •
0
~Crow~ Wrote:
But when someone says, "Doesn't matter which Sub-Zero it is" that's bothersome, because yeah it should definitely matter which it is.
But when someone says, "Doesn't matter which Sub-Zero it is" that's bothersome, because yeah it should definitely matter which it is.
Okay, that's a fair point and perhaps I was a little too glib before. The thing is, I like both versions of the character, but I don't prefer one over the other. I like the (please pardon the expression) cold-blooded assassin and the fugitive turned mentor and hero. So when someone says "Which one do you want in the game?" it honestly doesn't matter to me, 'cause it's like choosing between cake or cake.
assasSINister •06/24/2010 09:47 PM (UTC) •
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I see THREE possibilities, and I ordered them by what I thought would be more likely
1
-One Ninja Sub-Zero (Older Brother)
-One Cybernetic Sub-Zero
I don't know which one will be which, and I don't care.
2
- Ninja Younger Brother, never got his scar because of the change of events (DUH - you people and your bitching about an UGLY scar)
- Noob Saibot
- Cybernetic Ninja (Older Brother)
WAIT WAIT how can we have 3? Well maybe when Sub-Zero lost his soul to Cybernetic Automation, it got sent to the netherealm and became a Wraith....
HMMMMMMM
But since the interview confirms it (and I assume IT refers to the Sub-Zero we've been seeing) to be the elder brother.... I guess it might be this to please fans of Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot:
3
- Ninja Older Brother
- Cybernetic Ninja (Younger Brother's body)
- Noob Saibot (Younger Brother soul)
And I think #3 is gay
1
-One Ninja Sub-Zero (Older Brother)
-One Cybernetic Sub-Zero
I don't know which one will be which, and I don't care.
2
- Ninja Younger Brother, never got his scar because of the change of events (DUH - you people and your bitching about an UGLY scar)
- Noob Saibot
- Cybernetic Ninja (Older Brother)
WAIT WAIT how can we have 3? Well maybe when Sub-Zero lost his soul to Cybernetic Automation, it got sent to the netherealm and became a Wraith....
HMMMMMMM
But since the interview confirms it (and I assume IT refers to the Sub-Zero we've been seeing) to be the elder brother.... I guess it might be this to please fans of Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot:
3
- Ninja Older Brother
- Cybernetic Ninja (Younger Brother's body)
- Noob Saibot (Younger Brother soul)
And I think #3 is gay
Historical Favorite •06/24/2010 09:51 PM (UTC) •
0
assasSINister Wrote:
And I think #3 is gay
And I think #3 is gay
It has sex with other male numbers?
Spirit_Wolf •06/24/2010 09:53 PM (UTC) •
0
SubMan799 Wrote:
or the amount of people taking this thing seriously.
~Crow~ Wrote:
The amount of people who don't give a care about the storyline is frightening.
The amount of people who don't give a care about the storyline is frightening.
or the amount of people taking this thing seriously.
Hilarious answer
I agree with you... a lot of people are taking the story way too serieus. Nit-picking (or how do you say it) about every detail, djeez. It's a game!!! You play it!
Sure, the fantasy and sorcery elements of to the game are great. But who cares about family-reunions and stuff like that. Go watch soap-opera if you want that. It's a fighting game, not an adventure game.
The original MK had just a simple main story (the tournament to enter Earth-realm) and a simple backstory for each character. And that was and still is enough.
MK Trilogy had the 2 Sub-Zero's and that was just ackward, having 2 characters with almost the same moves. Even Sub-Zero and Frost in the same games, wasn't necessary.
I don't care if there are 2 Sub-Zero's in this game, but not at the cost of dropping another unique character.
I can see where some good writing could be done with the elder brother. He already had a fairly complex back story and several relationships to other characters to be fleshed out and explored.
Of course being that would compromise the younger brother and Noob I can see why a lot of people would be strongly opposed to the idea.
I think we can all agree on at least one thing: Boon and Co made it clear they are going to be meddling with some key plot points. Maybe those changes will turn out to have nothing to do with the Sub-Zeros but one thing is clear: the end result is almost certain to leave a portion of the fanbase outraged and claiming the plot is ruined.
Of course being that would compromise the younger brother and Noob I can see why a lot of people would be strongly opposed to the idea.
I think we can all agree on at least one thing: Boon and Co made it clear they are going to be meddling with some key plot points. Maybe those changes will turn out to have nothing to do with the Sub-Zeros but one thing is clear: the end result is almost certain to leave a portion of the fanbase outraged and claiming the plot is ruined.
Historical Favorite •06/24/2010 09:58 PM (UTC) •
0
Spirit_Wolf Wrote:
I agree with you... a lot of people are taking the story way too serieus.
I agree with you... a lot of people are taking the story way too serieus.
You can attribute that to the fact that we still don't know much about the 'game' part of the game yet (roster, control, new featues, etc). Right now the story is pretty much the only substantial thing to discuss as we have at least a vague idea of what to expect.
Shohayabusa
•06/24/2010 10:40 PM (UTC) •
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wow, nice catch on the info!!! maybe noob will be the younger brother now, like its a new twist? or maybe cybernitic noob from the younger bro getting cought. Anyway i am sure there not going to miss this up.
here i translated it for you guys since brazilian is portraguez.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl;=pt&tl;=en&u;=http%3A%2F%2Fcolunistas.ig.com.br%2Farena%2F2010%2F06%2F24%2Fmortal-kombat-volta-as-origens-jogamos-e-conversamos-com-os-produtores%2F
here i translated it for you guys since brazilian is portraguez.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl;=pt&tl;=en&u;=http%3A%2F%2Fcolunistas.ig.com.br%2Farena%2F2010%2F06%2F24%2Fmortal-kombat-volta-as-origens-jogamos-e-conversamos-com-os-produtores%2F
assasSINister •06/24/2010 10:51 PM (UTC) •
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OptimusGrime Wrote:
It has sex with other male numbers?
assasSINister Wrote:
And I think #3 is gay
And I think #3 is gay
It has sex with other male numbers?
You're an idiot.
if you want to take shit literally, then you should have asked "It has or shows a merry, lively mood?"
Dumb ass...
Shohayabusa
•06/24/2010 10:54 PM (UTC) •
About Me
Fare Thee Well
0
Hmm... I was thinking in a screen shot of the main menu, there is an extra option. Do you think there will be an option to choose alt. personas?
Tekunin_General •06/24/2010 10:54 PM (UTC) •
0
Just because the original is included in the game, Does not mean we will not see the younger Subzero. This also does not mean that the subzero we will play with cannot be both? There could be an extra costume included with a scar on the eye. Literally that easy. One character slot, both characters.
Untill we know more, theres no reason to asume anything. They said this is a game for fans. By killing noob and making the original Sub erase his brother, do you think fans will be happy?
Wait for more news. This story is the most important to get right. It is the most important aprt of the franchise. The people who simply overlook it need to understand what it contributes.
EDIT: Sorry Subman, but I gotta paly mr.Evil right here. MK's story is what has kept me in the series. And in my own personal opinion, the story makes it better than any other fighter out there. I literally have every fighting game I cna get and MK reigns supreme with the only rival being Tekken, then SF and MVC.
Untill we know more, theres no reason to asume anything. They said this is a game for fans. By killing noob and making the original Sub erase his brother, do you think fans will be happy?
Wait for more news. This story is the most important to get right. It is the most important aprt of the franchise. The people who simply overlook it need to understand what it contributes.
EDIT: Sorry Subman, but I gotta paly mr.Evil right here. MK's story is what has kept me in the series. And in my own personal opinion, the story makes it better than any other fighter out there. I literally have every fighting game I cna get and MK reigns supreme with the only rival being Tekken, then SF and MVC.
Hmm. Okay, this is my opinion, and simply my opinion.
I adore the younger Sub-Zero. To me, he is the absolute most fleshed out character in the series with by far the best character evolution, character connections, and untapped potential. His journey has been downright amazing as he's struggled to step out of his brother's shadow, to defy his clan, to battle against soulless hunters and gods, to defeat his foes and purge the corruption from his society, to mature into a respected warrior and leader, to become a friend and mentor to those under him, and to ultimately draw the eye of the Elder Gods themselves.
But what I adore most about him is, no matter how much he triumphs over his adversaries and succeeds in doing the impossible, his battles never end and his sorrows never waver. Every good deed he does is countered with an act of evil against him. He attempts to train Frost, only to have her turn against him and lust for power. He defeats Sektor, only for Sektor to attempt to build an army in Japan to challenge him. His best friend Smoke is forced to hunt him down and try to kill him. He stands against Onaga, only for Hotaru to determine him a threat to "the balance", while his kindness to Kenshi ultimately saves him from extermination. He finds himself unjustly hunted by Scorpion due to Quan Chi's lies. He offers Sareena friendship and sanctuary, and yet her demonic nature nearly kills him at some point. And most importantly of all, his older brother, the man he respected and loved as family, returns from the dead as a dark and evil wraith that enslaves his best friend and declares war against him, and yet he cannot bring himself to kill Noob Saibot.
Younger Sub has ALL that story, and yet he STILL feels like he's just getting started and barely scratching the surface of his potential and even his ultimate destiny.
I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that he is in any ways supplanted by his older brother, and even more uncomfortable of the notion that he becomes a soulless cyborg like Smoke. The reason Sub-Zero has been a favorite to so many people is more than just some cool (no pun intended) moves, violent spine-rip fatalities, and a trendy blue uniform. My personal opinion is he was and remains Mortal Kombat's absolute best character story-wise, with an overall story arc that puts everyone else to shame, and I'd hate to see almost two decades of fantastic character evolution and maturation undone in one Back-to-the-Future-esque history rewrite.
For me, older Sub-Zero's journey resulted in him going down a darker path and warping mind and body to the point of nonrecognition as Noob Saibot. Both brothers existing as counters to one another, of dark and light, good and evil, kindness and ruthlessness, with the likes of Smoke, Sareena, and others caught in the middle.
I don't want to see that drama disappear or that storyline altered one bit, mainly because it's also an unresolved conflict but also because the dynamic is so GOOD. It would feel wrong to have years of lead up with these compelling characters only to negate everything for the sake of "rebooting" their histories. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I adore the younger Sub-Zero. To me, he is the absolute most fleshed out character in the series with by far the best character evolution, character connections, and untapped potential. His journey has been downright amazing as he's struggled to step out of his brother's shadow, to defy his clan, to battle against soulless hunters and gods, to defeat his foes and purge the corruption from his society, to mature into a respected warrior and leader, to become a friend and mentor to those under him, and to ultimately draw the eye of the Elder Gods themselves.
But what I adore most about him is, no matter how much he triumphs over his adversaries and succeeds in doing the impossible, his battles never end and his sorrows never waver. Every good deed he does is countered with an act of evil against him. He attempts to train Frost, only to have her turn against him and lust for power. He defeats Sektor, only for Sektor to attempt to build an army in Japan to challenge him. His best friend Smoke is forced to hunt him down and try to kill him. He stands against Onaga, only for Hotaru to determine him a threat to "the balance", while his kindness to Kenshi ultimately saves him from extermination. He finds himself unjustly hunted by Scorpion due to Quan Chi's lies. He offers Sareena friendship and sanctuary, and yet her demonic nature nearly kills him at some point. And most importantly of all, his older brother, the man he respected and loved as family, returns from the dead as a dark and evil wraith that enslaves his best friend and declares war against him, and yet he cannot bring himself to kill Noob Saibot.
Younger Sub has ALL that story, and yet he STILL feels like he's just getting started and barely scratching the surface of his potential and even his ultimate destiny.
I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that he is in any ways supplanted by his older brother, and even more uncomfortable of the notion that he becomes a soulless cyborg like Smoke. The reason Sub-Zero has been a favorite to so many people is more than just some cool (no pun intended) moves, violent spine-rip fatalities, and a trendy blue uniform. My personal opinion is he was and remains Mortal Kombat's absolute best character story-wise, with an overall story arc that puts everyone else to shame, and I'd hate to see almost two decades of fantastic character evolution and maturation undone in one Back-to-the-Future-esque history rewrite.
For me, older Sub-Zero's journey resulted in him going down a darker path and warping mind and body to the point of nonrecognition as Noob Saibot. Both brothers existing as counters to one another, of dark and light, good and evil, kindness and ruthlessness, with the likes of Smoke, Sareena, and others caught in the middle.
I don't want to see that drama disappear or that storyline altered one bit, mainly because it's also an unresolved conflict but also because the dynamic is so GOOD. It would feel wrong to have years of lead up with these compelling characters only to negate everything for the sake of "rebooting" their histories. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Garlador Wrote:
Hmm. Okay, this is my opinion, and simply my opinion.
I adore the younger Sub-Zero. To me, he is the absolute most fleshed out character in the series with by far the best character evolution, character connections, and untapped potential. His journey has been downright amazing as he's struggled to step out of his brother's shadow, to defy his clan, to battle against soulless hunters and gods, to defeat his foes and purge the corruption from his society, to mature into a respected warrior and leader, to become a friend and mentor to those under him, and to ultimately draw the eye of the Elder Gods themselves.
But what I adore most about him is, no matter how much he triumphs over his adversaries and succeeds in doing the impossible, his battles never end and his sorrows never waver. Every good deed he does is countered with an act of evil against him. He attempts to train Frost, only to have her turn against him and lust for power. He defeats Sektor, only for Sektor to attempt to build an army in Japan to challenge him. His best friend Smoke is forced to hunt him down and try to kill him. He stands against Onaga, only for Hotaru to determine him a threat to "the balance", while his kindness to Kenshi ultimately saves him from extermination. He finds himself unjustly hunted by Scorpion due to Quan Chi's lies. He offers Sareena friendship and sanctuary, and yet her demonic nature nearly kills him at some point. And most importantly of all, his older brother, the man he respected and loved as family, returns from the dead as a dark and evil wraith that enslaves his best friend and declares war against him, and yet he cannot bring himself to kill Noob Saibot.
Younger Sub has ALL that story, and yet he STILL feels like he's just getting started and barely scratching the surface of his potential and even his ultimate destiny.
I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that he is in any ways supplanted by his older brother, and even more uncomfortable of the notion that he becomes a soulless cyborg like Smoke. The reason Sub-Zero has been a favorite to so many people is more than just some cool (no pun intended) moves, violent spine-rip fatalities, and trendy blue uniform. My personal opinion is he was and remains Mortal Kombat's absolute best character story-wise, with an overall story arc that puts everyone else to shame, and I'd hate to see almost two decades of fantastic character evolution and maturation undone in one Back-to-the-Future-esque history rewrite.
For me, older Sub-Zero's journey resulted in him going down a darker path and warping mind and body to the point of nonrecognition as Noob Saibot. Both brothers existing as counters to one another, of dark and light, good and evil, kindness and ruthlessness, with the likes of Smoke, Sareena, and others caught in the middle.
I don't want to see that drama disappear or that storyline altered one bit, mainly because it's also an unresolved conflict. It would feel wrong to have years of lead up with these compelling characters only to negate everything for the sake of "rebooting" their histories. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Hmm. Okay, this is my opinion, and simply my opinion.
I adore the younger Sub-Zero. To me, he is the absolute most fleshed out character in the series with by far the best character evolution, character connections, and untapped potential. His journey has been downright amazing as he's struggled to step out of his brother's shadow, to defy his clan, to battle against soulless hunters and gods, to defeat his foes and purge the corruption from his society, to mature into a respected warrior and leader, to become a friend and mentor to those under him, and to ultimately draw the eye of the Elder Gods themselves.
But what I adore most about him is, no matter how much he triumphs over his adversaries and succeeds in doing the impossible, his battles never end and his sorrows never waver. Every good deed he does is countered with an act of evil against him. He attempts to train Frost, only to have her turn against him and lust for power. He defeats Sektor, only for Sektor to attempt to build an army in Japan to challenge him. His best friend Smoke is forced to hunt him down and try to kill him. He stands against Onaga, only for Hotaru to determine him a threat to "the balance", while his kindness to Kenshi ultimately saves him from extermination. He finds himself unjustly hunted by Scorpion due to Quan Chi's lies. He offers Sareena friendship and sanctuary, and yet her demonic nature nearly kills him at some point. And most importantly of all, his older brother, the man he respected and loved as family, returns from the dead as a dark and evil wraith that enslaves his best friend and declares war against him, and yet he cannot bring himself to kill Noob Saibot.
Younger Sub has ALL that story, and yet he STILL feels like he's just getting started and barely scratching the surface of his potential and even his ultimate destiny.
I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that he is in any ways supplanted by his older brother, and even more uncomfortable of the notion that he becomes a soulless cyborg like Smoke. The reason Sub-Zero has been a favorite to so many people is more than just some cool (no pun intended) moves, violent spine-rip fatalities, and trendy blue uniform. My personal opinion is he was and remains Mortal Kombat's absolute best character story-wise, with an overall story arc that puts everyone else to shame, and I'd hate to see almost two decades of fantastic character evolution and maturation undone in one Back-to-the-Future-esque history rewrite.
For me, older Sub-Zero's journey resulted in him going down a darker path and warping mind and body to the point of nonrecognition as Noob Saibot. Both brothers existing as counters to one another, of dark and light, good and evil, kindness and ruthlessness, with the likes of Smoke, Sareena, and others caught in the middle.
I don't want to see that drama disappear or that storyline altered one bit, mainly because it's also an unresolved conflict. It would feel wrong to have years of lead up with these compelling characters only to negate everything for the sake of "rebooting" their histories. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Exactly. The Sub-Zero story arc put every single other arc to shame. Most of MK's characters are very static, or have poorly written giant leaps in personality change. Sub-Zero quietly evolved over the course of six games, and to throw that out and make the character that i consider the most compelling in MK history, a robot supporting character, is incredibly lame.
ThePredator151 •06/24/2010 11:26 PM (UTC) •
0
Older Brother w/ Younger Brother's Skin as an Alt (have the same moves, but look different)
+
Noob Saibot as a secret character or as DLC?
Get three out of one that way....idk.
I don't buy that cybernetic sub-zero idea. Sub-Zero's too big a character to change in such a dramatic way. I can't see them eliminating Noob Saibot either. Smoke could be cybernetic earlier than the existing canon says he should be...but I don't know his story that well to be able to tell.
--
On another note, I find it hard to believe that some folks here are able to see that there's a fan-presence for the story element, and yet contest it's significance. The contest itself is a story about how the fighters came together to fight each other. There wouldn't be a Mortal Kombat without an explanation for why they're fighting in the first place.
I can certainly understand the gameplay enthusiasts p.o.v.... Why isn't the same respect shown to the story element enthusiast as well? A good game is built on writers and story-boards.
Typically, if a character is not significant to the games' story or themes, the writer will exclude them, and gameplay enthusiast won't get to play with the character.
So?
+
Noob Saibot as a secret character or as DLC?
Get three out of one that way....idk.
I don't buy that cybernetic sub-zero idea. Sub-Zero's too big a character to change in such a dramatic way. I can't see them eliminating Noob Saibot either. Smoke could be cybernetic earlier than the existing canon says he should be...but I don't know his story that well to be able to tell.
--
On another note, I find it hard to believe that some folks here are able to see that there's a fan-presence for the story element, and yet contest it's significance. The contest itself is a story about how the fighters came together to fight each other. There wouldn't be a Mortal Kombat without an explanation for why they're fighting in the first place.
I can certainly understand the gameplay enthusiasts p.o.v.... Why isn't the same respect shown to the story element enthusiast as well? A good game is built on writers and story-boards.
Typically, if a character is not significant to the games' story or themes, the writer will exclude them, and gameplay enthusiast won't get to play with the character.
So?
Adam Ronin •06/24/2010 11:35 PM (UTC) •
0
assasSINister Wrote:
You're an idiot.
if you want to take shit literally, then you should have asked "It has or shows a merry, lively mood?"
Dumb ass...
OptimusGrime Wrote:
It has sex with other male numbers?
assasSINister Wrote:
And I think #3 is gay
And I think #3 is gay
It has sex with other male numbers?
You're an idiot.
if you want to take shit literally, then you should have asked "It has or shows a merry, lively mood?"
Dumb ass...
I thought OptimusGrime's response was funny as fuck. You should chill out Mr. Negative.
As for this story debacle, here is what I want to happen.
It's older subby. As the story mode progresses he is killed and becomes Noob, thus unlocking a new character. Young Sub comes in but is just a alt costume of the Subby already in the game. Oh, and no cyborg Sub Zero. Because the cyborgs of MK are GAY. ha.
rayden4u2335 •06/24/2010 11:35 PM (UTC) •
0
lol i highly doubt that they'd change such an iconic character of the franchise so drastically...he's practically the co-poster boy. Anyway i think that Jax is gonna be the cyborg Ed Boon was talking about cuz even though his MK vs DC ending wasn't canon, im sure it foreshadowed Jax becoming full cyborg
TheBigCityToilet •06/24/2010 11:41 PM (UTC) •
0
As long as there is a ninja that freezes things, and his name is Sub-Zero, it's not that big of a deal.
But this'll most likely mean no Noob Saibot. I like Noob a bit but hey...we can live without him.
Say what? the number 3 is a girl. Look at those curves.
But this'll most likely mean no Noob Saibot. I like Noob a bit but hey...we can live without him.
OptimusGrime Wrote:
It has sex with other male numbers?
assasSINister Wrote:
And I think #3 is gay
And I think #3 is gay
It has sex with other male numbers?
Say what? the number 3 is a girl. Look at those curves.
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