tell me...what are the skullz for again?


last time i checked i think they just made my feelings hurt. I feel very sorry now...lol

Please don't give me any more skulls. They make me feel sad!

That's straight up dumb. The only real difference between my rank and yours, is I got a couple more options on my screen than you.

Listen, you ever got something somebody else can't have, and then that person starts acting funny around you? Like, maybe you bought a car, or a game or some clothes.....maybe you got a good looking girl//boyfriend or whatever? Did you change, or did they?

You see, it doesn't matter if they want what you got or not. All that matters is that they started hatin' on you just because you appear a little bit different than them since you got whatever it is that you got.

Then what happens? Hu?

"Aw dude, you think you all high and mighty now don't you? I see I gotta knock you off your pedestal....blah blah blah..."

STRAIGHT UP DUMB.
===================
------------------
===================

So now, let me put you on to something. Less than what? 3 months ago, I was essentially hired to do a "job" for this website as a PG. That "Job" is to know the rules well enough to ("tah dah") Moderate these forums. I'm here to help, direct, and enforced the rules...AND to be fair, and unbiased about everything the whole time. Alot like LIVE, actually.

Difference is, if I see somebody is about to violate the rules, I have the opportunity to get you before you fuck yourself, and tell you......

"Get oOUT of my lane, BEFORE....I HAVE to, run YOU over."

That can't be hard to understand. No way that's hard.
So that we all understand ThePredator151, let me say it one more time.

If you're not violating the rules, I'm not bothering you...I'm not "looking for a reason" *waves hands*, I'm not even thinking about you or anybody else as long as you respect the job I'm here to do. And I never needed to be a moderator to demand that people respect what I'm about.

BUT, if you do happen to violate the rules? (especially after I tell you how to stay away from violating?).....THEN, that's when I don't care who you are, what you've done for MKO, how long you've been here, I don't care "when you became a member", who "you know", whatever...

Now if any of that^^ makes me "power-hungry" or whatever? Then I think there's something wrong with you...not me. I'd even challenge you to find where I ever abused any "power". And actually, if you search MKO for threads I make, you might find that I'm sometimes too loose with the dps.

Anyway, that "Almighty" bullshit don't work with me dude. Talking to the wrong guy for that to apply.

Idk how much more clear to say it than that.

---

Last thing,

I wasn't talking to you either. So wtf are you doing? What is it with you dudes? Do you "high level" players" just like jacking with the mods or what? I don't get why there's a couple of you guys that are so eager to Jump into a confrontation with a mod (in particular).

I mean, I understand having a competitive nature. But the way some of you guys act, I'm inclined to believe you're just reaaaly sensitive. Which one is it really?



You're all good now (you're all good normally actually, but I understand this isn't a "normal" situation. I also understand that you're just trying to do something). You just stepped on the advertising thing a little bit so I had to do my job. Refer to ~Crow~'s latest post going forward.

You already know I don't have any "problems" with you though. But like I say, I gotta do my job no matter what.

I beg to differ with what you said m2dave... quite a bit actually. JTF "created" the atmosphere? Since when was letting people do whatever the hell they wanted creating atmosphere? And how far does that "do whatever you want, no 'harsh' rules to pin you down man!" mentally get people? Like GTrax said, anarchy is not a solution in the real world and it doesn't work online. Something like what happened and what will always happen will continue to go on under any site moderated in the way that one was. People may not argue it was a site that's more lenient and "fun" than this one, but JTF created that atmosphere with his wizardry? Please.

As for your complaints about this site... the rules have here have been, as far as I'm concerned, unchanging since you have been a member here, but somehow you've managed to come here ten thousand times. I will admit to times of increased strictness, but I would like to think they weren't without just cause. Were some bans harsh? Sure. Were some decisions too rash? Of course. However, regardless of that factor, how many times and how many different people have I unbanned? Essentially right now you are using our forums, that we pay a lot of money for, to complain to me about why you think these forums stink. More than JTF would do for any of you, I can guarantee that. Look what his message was. This whole thing was just a way to "get back" at MKO as far as I'm concerned. He closed his site down and one of the first things that came to mind was how to "punish" MKO, and implying that he "took our members" away to punish us in the first place. Essentially, this guy who "created a great atmosphere" was using you in all along. I on the other hand have nothing to gain from letting people use this particular forum. I would like it if we had more online players here and activity, but as I said before, this is a news site. This site didn't go anywhere when JTF "took away" the community, and it still isn't going anywhere no matter where any of you end up.

I'm more than willing to talk to anyone about the rules and such, but generally it resorts to name calling and then when I take action by banning instead of just being a spaz and flaming you back/closing down sites, I get labeled a nazi or power hungry mod. But this is the same exact speech I have done for years and it never gets through to you, so I'm not really sure why I bothered typing this up again.

You guys all need to chill!

Dave, I think it's high time you realized that you cannot possibly justify giving JTF any props. I don't care what he created and I definitely don't care how beautiful it looked, the idea behind it was WACK. And the way that it has all gone down the drain shows that he had no respect for anyone, you included!

So cut the crap about how wonderful the site looked and his BS effort. What he did was not rocket science. HECK, Bobby and Gerchap created something similar in 2 days without any obscure resource. JTF is a pathetic old man and there is no getting away from that simple fact!

---------------------------------

Predator, man! You don't have to respond to everything dude. You're a Mod now and you'd have to start acting like it especially in the way you respond to people i.e. no need to go on swearing in your posts. Simple English should suffice.

---------------------------------

Anyways, I hope you guys can all let peace reign!

Trax

Sry, hahaha....I'm still a "regular" user. Hmhm, I don't think I swear that much, but I'll watch it for you man. haha..

Crow, no one did "whatever the hell they wanted". That is entirely false. There were still rules, which were enforced. I know so personally because I was warned once for engaging in heated arguments. Thus, the whole "it is anarchy" statement is a pure exaggeration on your part. Interestingly enough, MKC did not die because it was out of control; it died because JTF chose to shut it down for reasons only he truly knows.

You have tried to make this issue about JTF and his behavior, and that is not what my argument is about. People can perceive JTF however they want. I could not careless. I am simply stating that the atmosphere was great and rivaled other great competitive fighting game Web sites, such as Tekkenzaibatsu.com, Shoryuken.com, etc. to a small extent where some leniency and understanding come into place. Many people, even the ones who despise JTF now, will agree with me here.

Maybe the whole thing was about JTF; maybe it was not. Maybe he used us; maybe he did not. It does not a make difference at all because the experience and atmosphere was great on MKC and all players who participated on that Web site benefited from it. My point is that this is not about JTF as you suggest; it is about the community. A community for rather serious players, and a Web site that caters to them. That is precisely what this is about.

With JTF and MKC out of the picture now, we have Gerchap and MKU; meaning, prepare for very low traffic for the respective PlayStation and X-Box forums come MK Vs. DC, my friend.

Caters, eh? MKO has, many times, attempted to cater to the online communities. We've held official tournaments, tried to give away signed copies of the game, etc. I realize a signed copy of MK is "not much", but it does show we at least made an effort. Comparing JTF's site to those well known, community leader sites is ridiculous though. You're not going to see why so I won't explain it again.

And I'm not really interested in traffic numbers dave. But, MKO is just fine without the online community if you want to get into figures and ranks. MKO and TZ are basically identical in traffic rank and SFIV just came out. It sounds just like hollow threats to me. If you don't want to be here, stop replying and just leave. No one told you to come back here at all.

I don't remember seeing anything about figures and ranks mentioned by Dave...maybe that's just me not reading enough.

Either way, this place really doesn't have any sort of backing of high-level play among the online MKs at all. Where's the character guides? Where's a vault for combo/match vids? The only guides I saw here were basic info and unlocking guides.

MKC had the character strategy guides, the match vids and combo vids on the front page to let you know they're there.

Holding official tournaments means absolutely nothing, really. That's not really attempting to 'cater' to the online community.

"You have tried to make this issue about JTF and his behavior, and that is not what my argument is about."

-M2Dave




Exactly. That's all anybody does. Besides being loaded with exaggerations and over-statements (like the "anarchy" claim), people act like we went to MKC because of JTF and thus support him blindly in all his actions. We went to MKC, and consequently, to MKU because of MKO.

You guys here are happy with your general topic and "Which MK Girl Would You Date" threads. Fine. Enjoy it, please.

But it's not for us. We play the game first, and after what has now been years of communications and getting to know each other, we like to converse about other things from obscure MK topics to real-life subjects to humor, etc... With each other.

We couldn't do that here. Instead, our threads were restricted and we were forced into the anonymity of the other threads discussing things with, let's face it, mostly children and/or people that most of us (right or wrong) find to be untempting to converse with.

Whether you agree, or most likely, disagree... that's the simple truth. And that's why the vast majority of the online community left here.

I didn't think this thread was about MKO. Apparently I missed that though.

Also, lurking and posting whenever a topic like this springs up doesn't equate to "leaving". If you left, this sort of thing wouldn't happen every couple of months. It's funny how when it does it becomes a very active thread, as if you were all there waiting for it to happen.

A few of you are really great users. You know who you are if I'm talking to you, if you've ever shown me one ounce of respect you know I have shown you that back and attempted to help in any way I can. So for said persons, know I'm not referring to you.

In my dealings with many of you, you take on the tone of being self righteous and elitist. Thinking you are "better" than these "children" who would rather discuss, I don't know, the storyline or anything else within the game. What use is a character guide for an elitist? You'd all just complain about the person we got to make such guides and point out flaws in it and how you are more "1337" than they are. And if it was a joint effort, someone (everyone) would never be satisfied with it. I hate to make such crass generalizations, but I'm really being left no choice here. I am attempting to be nice here. I let this thread stay open, I let you all (most likely) use this site's PM system to contact everyone so you can all migrate over to your next temporary home. If you aren't going to be respectful and have not even one nice thing to say about this site or the people who run it, please by all means, just leave. Do your business and be on your way.

Nobody is trying to be "elitist". I even put a disclaimer in my comment... (right or wrong).

I don't think we should be ridiculed for our opinion on that matter. If we don't like to converse with a certain group of people, it doesn't mean we think we're better. It means we don't like conversing with a group of people, and thus don't like being forced to.

Personally, I don't try to be "elitist" or think I'm "better". But I can't help that people are "untempting" to me.

You guys have your thing; you're a news site. But you're not an online-gaming community site.

You gotta admit though, that your opinion blurs the line. An opinion (not that I care that you have that opinion) like that is indicative of the belief that just because you find "a group of people untempting", you deserve to be treated differently, or as if you guys deserve to be catered to // accommodated for some odd reason.

Everytime I run into one of you guys, whether I'm playing one of you online or whether I'm trying to get through to one of you on MKO(scarce on both occasions), there's a couple of you that act like Playing online is some kind of "elite badge of honor".

Why? When common sense tells me that, if you keep telling us that you're not interested in this community here, all it really equates to is that this is not the site for you. The resolution is simple then, and that's why you guys keep seeing ~Crow~ tell you: "Fine, go somewhere else then" *shrugs*. Doesn't make any real difference man.

What's really curious is why, if that's the case, your "community" would insist on coming here, and antagonizing the people who regulate this site.?.? haha...
I mean, I know I didn't just imagine those two guys come in here (out of the blue, mind you) and make it a point to try and "argue with a mod" (lol).

Like I mentioned earlier, it's alright to have a competitive spirit. Hell, I'm a competitive writer, conceptual idealist, communicator, organizer, and graphic artists on MKO, but that doesn't mean I need the site to "bend" for me, or the groups of individuals that I commonly converse with in any way that isn't already here. I just do what I do with what the site offers.

Aheh, I didn't help build the site....did any of you?
===

Which brings me to something else. Through all the reading, and reasoning I've done so far with you guys(again, you don't see me jacking with you guys, cuz I don't feel the need to. You're a pretty independent group from the rest of the site for the most part.) , I can't find many specific differences, between a "gaming site" and these news reporting forums. Well actually, there's format, and maybe some obscure "aesthetics" that's different. But overall, a game site is a game site.

Aside from that though, what could you guys possibly want from a dedicated news site?
God knows most of you are already privileged to a "trash talkers corner" here. That's basically what the XBL & PSOnline forums on MKO seems to be to me. A place where I see you dudes can come on here, say "GG dude" to each other alot, and pump your chest out about who's the "Highest Level" player.

==
And not to get off of the point I was just making but, it's still pretty hard to distinguish the context of a "high level online player", much less the "importance" of flaunting around that title. Who cares really? And anyway, "HIGH LEVEL PLAYER", plays in-to elitism. Because it suggest that there are players "beneath" or "lower" than you.

Now, I don't play online alot, but I recognize some of you guys' gamer tags as ones that I've beaten before. Might have taken alot to do so at the time (haha), but I just don't care enough about it to repeatedly remind any of you that I have beaten. The question is:

Should I be celebrated for beating some of you? And.. Should a site that I do not pay for, and is not a "online gamers site" anyway, cater to me if I were to continue to do so? Should I be recognized for those feats on a news reporting site?

The answer is No on all accounts. It's almost an impossible insinuation in it's infancy.

==

Anyway, back on the point of "what do you want", looks like you guys need to find someone who can communicate the specifics. I'm talking Features and Opportunities for the "online player", curse me to play into elitism again, and ask you for what would suffice as far as "Recognition" goes. Because apparently, that's something that's important to....."You People".

It's like, the only thing you guys can do, is put the specifics on the table for the administrators to consider. And IF they decided to consider what you've asked for, maybe the next build of this site will contain some of those things.....Thing is, it doesn't help your case if everytime you come on here, you're antagonizing the moderators, and being over critical of the rules and current format of MKO. Humans don't respond well to negativity....let alone persons who are providing something that is FREE.

==================in closing==========

- Nobody else really cares about rank and records but you guys(and some of the "kids" you say you're not interested in...they care about rank alot actually.)....lol.....

So I guess then, I can understand the hostility towards a mod on MKO (you guys actually think it has to do with "power" when it's not.). Whether a mod is trying to help you, is actually "punishing you" for a legit infraction, or whether that mod is merely speaking to you // giving you information on this NEWS site......some of you dudes really think rank, and a couple more options gives mods something to "hold over your head". The funny part is nobody cares enough to "hawk" you dudes. I don't see many of your names on the radar often. But that's what a few of you act like. A few of you act like "we're always looking for you" or something silly like that.

--Fast forward to "not recognizing you guys" as a community through this sites' make-up.

I'd assess that the mis-perception here, is that you guys actually think that just because you are a community, that an existing community needs to accommodate you? Feel free to correct the assessment, but that plays into elitism's parameters as well.

It's "Special Treatment" just because you play a game online to some undefined "Higher Level" than others. The resolve is simple then....

The fulfillment you all seem to be looking for, will not be found on this type of site..... and the bottom line is, MKO doesn't have to consider you. Not even 1%. I'm not saying "be happy with what you got", BUT rather, I am saying "Use the facility, or don't".....whichever way that goes for you, stop coming on here with the attitude like "you have to" battle with the regulation and format of this site. It's not our fault if you don't like it here.

You'd have to either adapt to the way MKO is, or not. However, IF generosity is extended to you guys through attempts to appease your "type" of MK fan, you can either appreciate it, or not. *shrugs*

=========
PS: Understand I don't have the "history book" on the confrontation here, but I'm a moderator for MKO. And all that means is, I'm just trying to help.
w/e.

Sry about the novel.

Here are simple facts (NOT opinion, but FACTS!) that you guys are missing out....

1. MKO created the community we all thrive on today. It's irrelevant if the guys that were here back then are still around, but it all started with MKO! That is a simple fact!

2. How can you say MKO is a news site and not an online community? There is absolutely no substance in that statement at all. The mere fact that we are having this conversation already defies that statement. CNN is a news site; MKO is a place where everyone can contribute to the news and share their opinion hence forming a community for people of common interest, which is MK!

3. MKO actually served the community so well in MKD days. However, many of us grew enormous egos and everyone felt special thereby leading to them thinking they are bigger than the site. That was what lead to the exodus and add JTF effect to it, then you have what we have today.

4. Lastly; FUCK the talk of high level bullcrap! Who cares if you RULE the world of MK? So fuckin' what? Do you choose your friends based on how well they fit a profile that matches your definition of success? Can you guys not see how narrow minded that argument is? A community is a place every member is a fabric irrespective of their social status. NO one is more important! (Well, apart from me!.. lol.... - THAT'S A JOKE!)

===================================

NOW, I'm not siding with anyone or any site. I will post at MKU and I will keep posting here (MKO). I will respect the rules wherever I go. But I will not get into a debate of why one site is better than the other. It's a futile argument.

Trax

PS: Cut down on your egos people! This is not a popularity contest. No one fricken gets paid for this sh!t! Let's just have fun wasting away talking about video games. haha.. GOD! We're SAD!

I cannot even recall the last time I had posted before I posted in this thread yesterday. When MKC was up, I visited MKO maybe twice a week to check my inbox for private messages. That was it. I am not looking for opportunities to bash this Web site. Most people, including you, already know how I feel about it.

Besides, no one is being an elitist here. Since when do we refer to players who play fighting games for the fighting as "elitists"? That is a terribly inaccurate term made up by casual gamers. No offense but that is the truth. Your perception as well as Predator's about "high level players" is awfully ignorant and completely misguided. The majority of your staff does not understand us, and that is why players are leaving to other Web sites.

If you want evidence, just take a look at your own post that you have just written:

What use is a character guide for an elitist? You'd all just complain about the person we got to make such guides and point out flaws in it and how you are more "1337" than they are.

First of all, casual gamers never make "character guides" because they do not care about the fighting aspects of the game. Please, go ask anybody in the "Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe" forum about aerial cancels, wake ups, and staple combos. Maybe 15% of all users in that forum will know what these terms refer to. The main point of character guides is to exchange useful information, and not to belittle people. Is that surprising to you? That is how everyone, including "elite" m2dave and ChaosTheory, learns to play any fighting game. That is why I suggested to you three years ago to implement character specific forums to hopefully get more folks involved and create a larger fan base for the Web site (as you can only talk about storylines and Sareena's breast size for so much). You said "I'll think about it" while JTF immediately e-mailed me and asked me how that could be accomplished.

Moreover, as useless as you may think that high level players are, we have done some good things. Malone, with the help of the community, created a meticulous list of the gameplay-related glitches in MK:D that needed to be fixed. That is probably why you have a somewhat functional wake up game in MK:A. We have gotten very little to no support from the MKO staff because a) you people could not careless as long as Boon makes it and b) Boon can never do wrong.

In my opinion, that is very disturbing coming from probably the primary Mortal Kombat Web site that supposedly champions every cause related to the Mortal Kombat series. If anything, and this may seem harsh, MKO has been a cancer to the 3D Mortal Kombat games. It promotes blind fanaticism.

But you are right. I am wrong. I am just an "elitist" looking to belittle everyone with my superior Dairou strategies. I have tried to make a difference. MKO will never change. You are right - it is best I leave.

yall type too much...MKF anyone???

I know, right?

And your sig owns like no tomorrow, Fly. HAH, you closed down an entire site!

Lol

HAHAHA.. Screw you MEsoFLY!

Dave, you get way too technical and deep with this stuff. I will say that you have pointed out some valid points.

However, I still don't understand your reference to the brilliance of JTF though and MKC. He did what he needed to do to keep you guys happy because in return you filled his ego with props. That's all!

I keep banging on about this.. If he had so much respect for any of the users who were using the site, he wouldn't have pulled the plug. And that act undermined the community and everything you all stood for. I wish you would just think about that and stop referring how inventive he was. The foundation was flawed and the outcome was inevitable irrespective of the beauties in the mid section.

Trax

Mortalkombatunited.com is not found when I search.

Just to make this simple and clear as possible:

1.) High level players are NOT rank whores, those are the quitting and pulling scrubs of the online community, we could care less about rank.

2.) There aren't character specific forums, not even one, what are we supposed to go by when we want detailed character strategies and guides.

3.) The MKDC forum is insanely populated about people who could care less about the gameplay mechanics but just want their character to appear or insert "thread/ x-character didn't make it!".

I just had to point those out, this site is good I guess for news and other things though.

Couple things....




Elitism refers to an attitude, or a state of mind that one might take. It can be a label as well though.

So, you wouldn't "refer to a type of player" as an elitist. Well, not unless the person has done great things, and is actually worthy of the title(like the King of Donkey Kong). But, it's not a label like that in the context of how it's being used in this thread. In this thread, it's a referral to an attitude, a state of mind, or whatever hierarchy you guys are using to determine high or low.

Also, that word was not made up by casual gamers. It's a general term more commonly used in sports, and political matters.

Ex1: "He is an elite because he climbed the tallest mountain in the world."

Ex2: "An elite member of a bureaucracy. - A bureaucrat who performs his duties as if they are above the law, appears to have an elitists state of mind."
--

Lastly on this, and like I keep probing you dudes for, nobody is willing to offer up an adequate explanation as to the significance of the label, "High Level Player".

Aheh, from all that I gather, all it really means is that you waste more of your life playing a game than me. And if that's what's making some of you "High Level" then, congratulations? I also understand that there's a couple of you that purposely aim to improve the quality of the games by going in, and finding things wrong with them, making a list, videos, ect, and then attempting to give that list up to the creators of the games......but then, I'd simply define you as a "Pro-Bono Video Game Tester".

Those of you who do that, should put together a resume, and go get paid for doing that, instead of doing it Pro-Bono = 4 Free.



Then I guess that makes me a "High Level Organizer"? Is that a "High Level Forum Member"? Idk.....listen to the last two Mkast for when they mention me. But at the same time, since I have to tell you that exist, it should be evidence that I am not really capable of an elitists attitude. I'd have to make it a point to label myself "higher" than other users for that to be true. And I don't so...w/e

EDIT: At the same time, you all feel the need to let everybody know that your "a high level player". When, if I didn't know better, I'd associate that label with some sort of prestige. BUT, what? There isn't anything there except for the title itself. "You touch a game controller more often than me"....wow. See, by that logic, and considering the sheer size of some of my posts, shouldn't that make me a "High Level Typists"? Why label yourself something so insignificant, if you don't want to deal with the insignificance of the title itself eh? Nobody told you to do that to yourself.

Now, don't mistake me for discrediting Malone, cuz that's not what I'm doing here. But instead, I really don't think he logs in with the intent of wearing his contribution to MKA like some sort of badge. Same as I don't log in with the attitude that I should be noticed for my contributions to MKvsDC's MKasts. Or MKO for that matter (rank, stickie threads, how many people are wearing pictures I made them, ect). I don't log on here expecting people to acknowledge me for these things. I just what I do // How I happen to use this site...

Anyway, Malone doesn't come off like some of you guys do, either though. Which is funny because by your standards of appreciation, he's done more than you for MK games, but you have the bigger beef?

Is that about right?



Simply disagree. Money does that, not a fan site.

===

Question(s) of the hour still stands since I'm so utterly ignorant:

What is a high level player, people? What makes you higher or lower than others? What's the hierarchy?

No definition has been given, and I don't mind appearing a way so long as you're not just throwing "ignorant" around as an insult. Should be a nice contrast for you M2Dave. Seeing as how on the last page of this thread I appeared "Almighty" to you.

Enlighten me then.

This is getting good... I love this forum...

When did the term "high level" become the center of this argument?

I only saw Dave mention it when he was talking about the online players who don't like to post here. In which case, "high level" simply is referring to those players who would easily defeat the vast majority of players.

And trust me, I'm not the type to go around throwing out terms like "high level". That's just not me. But I don't think Dave is being an elitist by using that term in reference to the online community. Surely you could agree that it's an accurate description.

And by the way, I think the issue of "high level" is a side-note to what the point of this discussion was when Dave and I began.

ChaosTheory, once you are about to lose an argument, you divert the attention of the main points being disputed and proceed to argue about semantics instead. That is a fallacy, referred to as a "Straw Man 's Argument".

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position

In his posts, Predator has done an excellent job evading all the arguments that have been made in this thread thus far and made them about something else that was never questioned in the first place.

Predator, once you (or Crow) tackle the issues that I have addressed, I refuse to reply to your meaningless posts. You write paragraphs upon paragraphs that say nothing to me. Address the issues instead and stop arguing about semantics. If you seriously do not know what a "high level player" refers to then I will gladly explain it to you albeit it has very little to do with my initial arguments.

It never did, and still isn't. I just took it upon myself to kill that issue in this conversation. Can you see it?



*thumps your forehead* I do not evade. You brought it up, so I responded. *shrugs*



Number one, who cares if you reply? You're as regular a user as any one of us. Calm down on the condescension too man, it'll cause unnecessary problems with people less tolerant than me.

Number two, and to quite the contrary, you actually need to "tackle" the fact that your "issue" does not require the attention of the administration on MKO. And leave it at that. This is not a democracy-style website man.

As for your request, that's too easy for you, isn't it? ~Crow~ keeps giving you the short answer. Refresh?

The short answer would be as it has been:

"Stop complaining about the programming, maintenance, and administration that goes into this site. Especially since you continue to tell us that you are not pleased when you come here. You don't have one substantial contribution to speak of, so all you're doing is antagonizing what you cannot change."

That's Clear as day man. You like to take issue with everything I see that now. But at the same time, I like to be entertained when I come on MKO. heh, so thanks, and there you go.
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Strawman fallacy constitutes that I evade your actual issue(s), attack you, or even belittle you point of view, instead of addressing your issues and concerns head on. Fact of the matter however, is that I've actually resolved a few of the supporting issues in your argument. You just don't realize it cuz you're....stubborn?

Seeing you actually type that out about what's going on here, I should really accuse you of reverse psychology. But nah, instead I'll tell you I am actually performing the process of elimination. See, I figure while you're busy fighting an uphill battle with ~Crow~ and the "construction of MKO"(lol), I'd go ahead and resolve the other issues you're bringing up as support to your concern. Which is not a strawman tactic. It actually challenges your ability to handle all the issues you're bringing up all at one time.

But basically, if you wanna know what I'm actually doing, just ask me. I don't pussyfoot around anybody man.
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Now look at it again,.....*waits*.....all of a sudden, "elitism" in this thread has become a deterrent, so has "high level players" (thanks Chaos), so has "catering to the online community on MKO". You brought it up, but now, you don't wanna talk about it anymore?

lol, All you got left to argue about are the things you can not change. haha...

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So lets go down the list of what seems to be remaining, shall we?

1. Character Specific Forums // Manipulating a Website to Accommodate you and or your Group = No. You can not have that. And until further notice, you should assume you will not get it.

2. Anarchy = You do take on those traits when you antagonize what you cannot change to fit your liking.

3. JTF = Don't know him, don't care about him or anything he's about. Doesn't seem like he's big on mutual respect though.

4. Online Gaming Community Traffic = Doesn't matter so much to MKO. So forget about it.

5. Loyalty = Not a requirement, there's quite the revolving door in place actually.

6. Almighty? = No, I am not, nor do I feel "Almighty".

That's about everything from all your posts in this thread. There's not much substance there man....read your own posts again. There's only a couple points in them until you start bringing other stuff into the conversation...

Anyway, you do have some options going forward, but I anticipate you'll regard those answers as insufficient, bring up some other angle, and keep whining cuz you can't get what you want out of all your bickering. I figure this will be the case even though there's nothing else to discuss if you consider those answers as the truth of the matter right now. Those are the only answers available to your concern, right now.

And like I said earlier, you have a negative approach. When you antagonize the persons whom are in position to help you, the reaction you will get will be inconsiderate of your concern. My honest advice to you would be to get your people together, put together a very specific list, give it up to the administration of this site, and hope for the best result of your efforts and organization as a community.

You're not gonna get anything out of jumping on here and incorrectly accusing people, inconsiderately posting your condescending position on things, and quite frankly, STUBBORNLY, antagonizing people. That's not the way you get things done. High level player, elitist mentality, M2Dave.